Spinner turn count

[aevans0001]

Hi, This is a copy of a previous wiki page that is now only available in the old wiki.  you can access the old post in the wayback here

http://oldwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinner_Turn_Count
and the whole old wiki here. http://oldwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Main_Page


I would like to get this updated with newer games if possible.


Edited to add pdf of KenToad's Post


Spinner Turn Count
Purpose
This is intended to be a page to keep track of the correct turns ratio of spinner/dial/paddle/trackball-controlled arcade games. Below is comma-separated text, hopefully this is a useful format.

Q: How do I use this information?

A: To tweak the analog sensitivity in MAME to better emulate real hardware.


An example from the first link below: Tempest, 72 count

if the control you use has 1200 counts per turn, the sensitivity calculation is: Sensitivity = 100 * 72 / 1200 = 6%


Links (Recommended Reading)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=61381.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=23967.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42401.msg474159#msg474159


Data
Effective_Tooth_Count = teeth that pass through the optical sensor per revolution of the knob (multiply by any gear ratios to obtain)

Counts_Per_Revolution = could be 1x, 2x, or 4x of the Effective_Tooth_Count (depends on original hardware interpretation of optical sensor information)

Other_Notes = quantitative information relating to game play (like degrees of turn from one side of the screen to another - useful for potentiometer games like Warlords)

Game   Effective_Tooth_Count   Counts_Per_Revolution   Other_Notes
720 degrees   72   144   LETA 2x (schematic)
Arkanoid   486   486   Geared: The knob attaches to shaft #1, which has a 72 tooth gear on it. That gear turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #2. Shaft #2 also has a 72 tooth gear on it, which then turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #3. Shaft #3 also has the encoder wheel on it, which has 24 teeth. 120-130 deg = one traversal across the screen
Aztarac      4x   Same spinner as Mad Planets
Blasteroids   72   288   LETA 4x (schematic)
Crater Raider   64   64   
Caliber .50   24      Loop24 optical rotary stick
Cameltry   486      Same Spinner as Arkanoid
Dark Planet   64   64   6-bit rotary encoder
Demolition Derby (2-Player Mono Board Version)   8      
Disks of Tron   128   128   
Forgotten Worlds         geared spinner
Ivan Ironman Offroad   a) 154.286 or
b) 164.57      Geared:
a) 60 teeth on the steering wheel shaft, meshes with a 14 tooth gear on the encoder shaft, which has 36 teeth on its encoder wheel
b) 96 teeth on steering wheel shaft, to 14 tooth gear on encoder shaft, which has 24 teeth on encoder wheel.
Kick / Kickman   12      Ball-shaped roller.
Off the Wall   128   256   LETA 2x (schematic)
Omega Race   64   64   Omega Race uses a 6-bit (64-position) rotary encoder
Pole Position
Pole Position II   102 6/7   102 6/7   Geared: 60 tooth gear on wheel shaft, 14 tooth gear on 24 tooth encoder disk shaft => (60 / 14) * 24 = 102 6/7
Revenge of DOH   486   972   Same spinner as Arkanoid
RoadBlasters   154 2/7      Wheel/Yoke: 60 tooth gear turns 14 tooth gear with 36 tooth encoder disc. Limited angle of rotation.
Super Speed Race   64   64   6-bit rotary encoder
Tempest   72   72   1 full turn moves 5 spaces on first screen
Tron   128   128   
Two Tigers (conversion)   64   64   
Tac/Scan
Star Trek
Zektor   64   64   All use the same spinner
Turbo         2 1/2 turns to go across the screen
Mad Planets      1x   
Subs
Monte Carlo
Super Sprint
Drag Race
Fire Truck   36      
Sprint   36   36   
Championship Sprint
APB
36   72   
Trackball Hardware

Trackball   resolution   Notes
Happ 2.25 inch trackball   149.2 (no wear)   2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller, 24 tooth encoder disc
Happ 3 inch trackball   167.4 (no wear)   3 inch ball, 0.43 inch roller, 24 tooth encoder disc
Atari 4.5 inch trackball   330.6 (no wear)   4.5 inch ball, 0.49 inch roller, 36 tooth encoder wheel
Trackball Games

Game   Trackball   Multiplier   Notes
Crystal Castles   Atari/Happ 3 in   2x   
Marble Madness   Atari/Happ 3 in   4x   
Rampart   Atari/Happ 3 in   2x   
Snake Pit   Wico 2.25 in      
Cabal   Wico 2.25 in      
Pot Based

Game   Gear Ratio   Other_Notes
Warlords   1   120-130 deg one traversal end to end of castle
Final Lap   2/3   
Moto Frenzy   1   
Breakout   1   
Super Breakout   1   120-130 deg one traversal across the screen
Star Wars   15/7 (left/right) 30/7 (up/down)   Yoke
Paperboy   30/7 (left/right) 30/7 (up/down)   Yoke
Trackball Games: Game Name, Notes

Crystal Castles, 1st screen BB moves length of line above his head from center of trackball moved to one side

Centipede, 1 trackball move 1 end to other (stock tb) 2 1/2 mushroom lengths

Missile Command 1 full end to end visible trackball movement goes from left to the right of the little bump after the missile base

Atari LETA Chip: several of Atari's optical-control games used the LETA quadrature-decoder chip. It could be set to a 2x or 4x resolution. Therefore all of the below games are either 2x or 4x.
Major Havoc
Marble Madness
Crystal Castles
Rampart
Off The Wall
Blasteroids
720
Championship Sprint
Super Sprint
APB


EDIT:  Added items about oldwiki.

[PL1]

The good news is that wiki page is still available on the newer wiki, but the URL is a bit different.
- "/wiki/" on the older wiki URLs like the one you linked to is "/index.php/" on the newer wiki URLs.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinner_Turn_Count

The bad news is that when Saint restored the old and new wiki backups after the server change almost four years ago:
1. He put them on the wrong domains -- the original "wiki" is now on "oldwiki" and the updated "newwiki" is now on "wiki" -- which broke many of the inter-page links on the newer wiki. (you can work around the broken links by changing the URL from "newwiki" to "wiki")
2. The wiki server wasn't properly configured for uploading new/updated images.

If Saint ever gets around to fixing image uploads (and hopefully putting the wikis back on the original domains so we don't have to go through thousands of pages and manually edit all of the broken inter-page links  ), I keep a list of proposed changes and new images for the wiki.
- No sense making these changes until we can upload images because most of the changes involve a new/corrected image.   

This is the note for updating the Spinner Turn Count page:

KenToad's improved list -

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164017.0.html

Are there any other changes you'd (eventually) like to see on this wiki page?


Scott

[aevans0001]

The good news is that wiki page is still available on the newer wiki, but the URL is a bit different.
- "/wiki/" on the older wiki URLs like the one you linked to is "/index.php/" on the newer wiki URLs.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinner_Turn_Count

The bad news is that when Saint restored the old and new wiki backups after the server change almost four years ago:
1. He put them on the wrong domains -- the original "wiki" is now on "oldwiki" and the updated "newwiki" is now on "wiki" -- which broke many of the inter-page links on the newer wiki. (you can work around the broken links by changing the URL from "newwiki" to "wiki")

Couldn't we just put a link to the old wiki.  http://oldwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Main_Page

[aevans0001]

Also wow that is an awesome post by KenToad!  That is pretty much exactly what i was looking for.

[Xiaou2]

There is so much missing information in this.

  For example... a different Diameter Roller on a trackball,  can change the Ratio by quite a bit.
Similar with spinners.  You would want both the diameter of the knob,  as well as the diameter of the Drive Shaft.

 For games like Sega's Turbo... It has quite a few gears in its mechanism.  It would be great to know each gear type, tooth, order, shaft diameter...etc.
Basically, I believe all controllers should be individually documented, part by part... so that people now, and in the future, could replicate them with
100% arcade accuracy.
 
 A games controls, are key to how the game is supposed to control.   It can greatly effect the difficulty level,  if the controls are not accurate.

 Also, certain control designs are extremely unique.  Spy Hunters steering wheel assembly, for example... both using 10 turn pots (high resolution),
and Hard Rubber stops... that allow you to be able to slam the wheel very hard.   In fact, the game tracks your steering wheels acceleration, which
greatly effects how much you can BUMP a Baddie.   If you bump slowly.. the enemy cars wont be effected.  If you slam the wheel fast and hard...
you can bump the baddies several inches away from your car... causing them to easily be forced off road.   The amount is also effected by how hard
and fast they bump you.  (whom bumps first, and how much energy each car has at impact)

 Other steering wheel designs, are completely different in design... and each have interesting and unique design features.

 One flaw of the Spy Hunter wheel, for example... is that its centering springs often get stretched out, and no longer fully center the wheel.
I believe a more modern Sega wheel that I repaired... had an Oval shaped CAM... and it was able to maintain long term centering... even if the main
springs started to stretch.

 Hard Drivin / Race Drivin...  has a 10 turn pot.. but unlike Spy hunters higher resolution but limited 180 ish turn degree...  Race drivens wheel can turn
like 1.5x in each direction (from center).   Its one of the few wheels that uses a Direct-Drive motor.
(looks like a Washing machine motor.  Huge, heavy, and probably powerful enough to spin a 2yr old child around, strapped to the wheel)

 RD's sitdown also has a unique brake pedal, that has a "Strain Gauge" attached to it (welded in place).  It captures far greater levels of pressure, than
a Pot based system.   Go into the test menu, and check just how much the values can shift.  Its quite amazing.

 It took me some time, before I found information on how a  Strain Gauge   even functions.  Its a sensor, that can tell how much pressure / force,  is being
transmitted through the material that its attached to.   If you attached one to a thick steel pipe... and you leaned on the pipe.. the metal will be stressed to a
small degree, and the sensor will register the amount of stress.   I believe the HD/RD brake also had a normal pot, which tracks movement until the end of
stroke... and the strain gauge was used to detect the amount of heavy pressure when the pedal was already "Floored".

 Obviously, the 720 controller, is also a beast of its own.   Especially because it has a 2nd optical disc,  for the game to be able to calibrate the character,
so that it never gets out of sync with the HANDLE direction.

 Button types should also be documented... but that ship might have sailed, as it might not be easy to tell an Original button,
from an incorrect / replaced button.   Things like Travel distances on a leaf button, are key to how certain games might play and feel.


 In this Age of 3d Printing... it would be excellent to be able to print out any Unique controller, with arcade accurate results.
Maybe there will be some compromises in durability (in non metal prints) .. but overall control mechanisms should be quite good.

[PL1]

Couldn't we just put a link to the old wiki.  http://oldwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Main_Page

1. The old wiki is just there for archival purposes.
- AFAIK none of us can add users, edit pages, or upload images to it.

2. There are a number of updates and additions in the new wiki like the FAQ.

3. Just added the KenToad thread link to the Spinner Turn Count page so we might as well link to the new wiki since we can at least update the text even though we can't update images.   


Scott

[aevans0001]

Thanks Xiaou2, for your insightful post.  I believe you are correct in the best way t document.  it does make more sense to have as much info as possible.  However, this post as well as Ken's post and the wiki was a different project.  Taking what we know and documenting it to play a game.  The project you have suggested would require people who actually own arcades or know about the manufacture of a lot of arcades to be ble to figure that info out.  I'm not quit ethat technical.

[aevans0001]

I have created an excel document of @KenToad's message (linked above).  This includes 90% of the info he has included in his post, but a bit more easily read.

Tried to post document here, but formating gets all screwed up.. here is the file attached.