Problems with custom generated modelines

[haynor666]

From some time I have problems with custom genereted modelines. Evertime I create custom modeline in Arcade OSD (that I see on TV - works) and copy paste into desired ini file (example viprp1.ini) I get no picture on TV. Game hovewer works fine (I can hear sounds, I can insert coin), just no picture at all.

It's Windows 7 SP1 with only some patches. That method worked with version 227.

I know we have sliders right now it's a long and tedious method to set each invidual game. It's easier to set entire driver source ini file.


I'm using Radeon HD5670 with two analog outputs enabled. VMM reporting driver 15.8.

[Calamity]

Confirmed. I'll push a fix as soon as possible. Thanks for reporting.

[haynor666]

Nobody spotted this problem so far ?!?!

Am I the only person the still uses custom modelines these days !?!?



As always, thanks Calamity. This will make set up easier

[Gunstar]

Hey haynor666, sorry to hijack this thread but is Arcade OSD the best way to add CPS3 timing to CRT Emu? I used a .txt file that had a bunch of pre-defined modelines that I installed via VMMaker but none matched the CPS3. Thanks

EDIT: I've got the correct resolution (384x224) and it looks good but there's some tearing, I set the refresh rate to 59.633333 in the 'user_modes' text file. I wonder if Fightcade 2 isn't using the same refresh rate for CPS3

[haynor666]

Groovymame shoudl do this. ArcadeOSD is basically for creation of preset modelines that later will be modified by groovymame itself when it's needed. Another usage of ArcadeOSD is for emulators that cannot edit modelines on the fly, instead those emulators are forced to use already created modelines. Finally ArcadeOSD can be use for custom modelines (hand made timings, screen postion).

[Gunstar]

Thanks for the help, I posted the other thread before seeing this. Is it possible to keep trying different refresh rates with Fightcade 2/FBNeo until the tearing goes? sorry for the weird questions but this is all new to me

[haynor666]

That depends if emulators are able sync video and sound to custom frequency.

[Gunstar]

The emulator now puts out close to the CPS3 refresh rate:


I guess what I'm asking is if I know what the refresh rate is of the CPS3 emulator (the resolution is correct) would then adding that to the crt emu mode line make the video sync up? (so the desktop/crt match the emulator)

I've tried a bunch of reported CPS3 speeds I found on the internet and some have worse screen tearing than others

[c0de90e7]

First of all, and maybe I am doing this in the wrong place, this is my first post here ( long time lurker ) and let me say I am very grateful to the whole community and specially to Calamity ( gracias por todo, gracias por tanto, maestro ).

I am using this thread because this is related to two of the problems I am having in my current setup.

I am using an aiwa VX-D2120K ( 21" combi VHS + TV ) and an HD5450 ( it is an Ultimarc ArcadeVGA ) with superresolutions.

Problem 1:

When setting up video modes with VMMaker, I initially used Arcade 15KHz preset ( this has worked for me in other setups, IIRC ) and everything seems fine until I run some games ( some of them verticals, my setup is horizontal so yeah, this is using some higher resolution, maybe 640x480 or... ) that output out of sync modes ( scrolling, skewed mode, which I canīt see which one it is... ).

If I run Arcade-OSD, I go through the modes one by one and varying the vertical geometry a bit I get stable modes that work just fine.

The question is, can I somehow instruct GroovyMAME to use this changed mode I have obtained in Arcade-OSD ? or, do I need to go the route haynor666 is referring to ?

Problem/question 2:

Sometimes there is games that, in my TV, the vertical width is too much and I have up to an inch of overscan at the bottom and at the top. But, in some games I have seen, this is not an issue, 256p games but also some others, maybe they are 224p and run in 240p so they fit ( or fit a bit better ). So, could I force GroovyMAME to not use 240p and use 256p or 248p or some others ? I tried removing 224p and 240p from the VMMaker list in superresolutions and when generating modes I saw those were not included, but then I see GroovyMAME still uses them.

Maybe this Problem 2 is not a problem if I use Arcade-OSD to crerate specific height modes and add custom modelines to GroovyMAME or drivers' .INIs.

Thanks in advance.

[c0de90e7]

Well, I have edited the upper crt_range0 in mame.ini and changed upper limit from 16200 to 16112. Why ? because when editing the out of sync modes in Arcade-OSD and reducing bottom porches to make them work well, I was seeing the new modes were always a bit lower in value, 16110, 16112,... so I changed the upper limit in mame.ini to 16112 and now the vertical games ( which are using 2560x288 ) work fine. Yes, I guess using Generic 15KHz instead of Arcade 15KHz would also do something similar, but maybe with Arcade 15KHz and this small "fix" to the upper limit ( still near but lower to 16200 ) I have more resolutions available ? Anyway, it doesnīt hurt.

Now I am trying to force GroovyMAME to use 2560x248 or, better, 2560x256 as a minimum resolution... I know the 256p one is only 58Hz but the 248p one has a 60Hz mode too...

Can we make forced use of the 248p one somehow ?

Thank you again. 

[makya]

Theoretically you could use the exact modeline that you get in arcadeOSD but I believe it's still broken.
What I did instead is translating the modeline I want into a narrow crt_range.

[psakhis]

Now I am trying to force GroovyMAME to use 2560x248 or, better, 2560x256 as a minimum resolution... I know the 256p one is only 58Hz but the 248p one has a 60Hz mode too...

Can we make forced use of the 248p one somehow ?

Hi, even though you can do it, it doesn't make sense.
 A) If the game is 240p, you lost pixel perfect
 B) Your screen shows 240 vertical lines at 60hz, if not, it is configured wrong and you must set vsize with pots/service menu
 C) Vertical games with 256 lines can be cropped to 240 lines for horizontal monitor with same original freq; otherwise groovymame go down frequency

[c0de90e7]

Theoretically you could use the exact modeline that you get in arcadeOSD but I believe it's still broken.
What I did instead is translating the modeline I want into a narrow crt_range.

Yeah, I limited the upper hertz range a bit and got it to do modes that donīt go out of sync. Thank you

Hi, even though you can do it, it doesn't make sense.
 A) If the game is 240p, you lost pixel perfect
 B) Your screen shows 240 vertical lines at 60hz, if not, it is configured wrong and you must set vsize with pots/service menu
 C) Vertical games with 256 lines can be cropped to 240 lines for horizontal monitor with same original freq; otherwise groovymame go down frequency

Yeah, the problem is I donīt have an original remote for this TV and I donīt see any potentiometers in the chassi nor referenced in the service manual...

I donīt get what you say in point C) though... // EDIT: Ah, I kinda get it now... but yeah, no, I want this for any game, even horizontal ones. The thing is some games are still OK because they were designed with overscan in mind, that is, markers, numbers, etc. are enclosed in a closer rectangle... but otherīs are not...

Thank you.

[makya]

Here's how to access service menu. Should be feasible with a universal remote.

[c0de90e7]

Here's how to access service menu. Should be feasible with a universal remote.

OMG OMG OMG, Thank you so much !!! I had a look in the manual some days ago but I thought a clone/universal remote wasn't going to help :O but you are right, the buttons referenced are normal buttons !

Thank you, ordered a compatible remote, I'll report back when it arrives and tey this

[Zebidee]

It is quite possible to use slightly larger (taller?) video modes, like with 248+ vertical lines, for arcade games designed for "240p", without losing pixel-perfection. Not ideal perhaps, but a valid way to get around excessive TV overscan, at least for some games, though best to try whatever's possible via the service menu first. Of course, consoles games etc. at "240p" should already designed with typical TV overscan in mind.

In GM, just make sure that you don't do any uneven stretching and maintain aspect ratio (in mame.ini, GM mostly just seems to work for me with default settings, which for me is all "unevenstretch" and "autostretchxy" at "0").

Where there is a difference, Groovymame will do its best to make the game speed and frame rates match. Small differences should be OK, some games with large differences might suffer. Vertical tearing and audio stutter are some signs something is wrong.

[c0de90e7]

It is quite possible to use slightly larger (taller?) video modes, like with 248+ vertical lines, for arcade games designed for "240p", without losing pixel-perfection. Not ideal perhaps, but a valid way to get around excessive TV overscan, at least for some games, though best to try whatever's possible via the service menu first. Of course, consoles games etc. at "240p" should already designed with typical TV overscan in mind.

In GM, just make sure that you don't do any uneven stretching and maintain aspect ratio (in mame.ini, GM mostly just seems to work for me with default settings, which for me is all "unevenstretch" and "autostretchxy" at "0").

Where there is a difference, Groovymame will do its best to make the game speed and frame rates match. Small differences should be OK, some games with large differences might suffer. Vertical tearing and audio stutter are some signs something is wrong.

Yes, that's what I was asking about, but how do I tell GM to do so ?

P.S.: Wow, that's a damn good arcade machine collection !

[Zebidee]

There are a few ways to do it. The most blunt way is to create a [romname].ini file and put it in your /mame/ini folder.

You can make it with notepad and it can be as simple as "resolution 320x244". The .ini file will override any settings that came earlier for the game, such as from mame.ini.

A *better* way to do it is by editing your monitor.ini (you can do this directly or via vmmaker, first tab) to tell CRTEMU and GM what your "monitor" is capable of.

In my case, I'm using a generic brand 21" CRT TV with a "China TV" chassis variant. Yes that is the official term, they are common, at least across Asia. I have modded it to take component input, which I provide from PC via GreenAntz RGB-component transcoder. It is quite happy with PAL/50, NTSC/60 and almost everything else in between.

So, in the monitor.ini file, I created a new monitor profile named "ChinaTV1". It is really a hybrid of the generic PAL and NTSC profiles with two crt_range profiles. Here it is, with some highlighting.

monitor "ChinaTV1", "China TV - 50/60 Hz", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15625.00-15734.26, 49.50-55.00, 1.500, 4.700, 5.800, 0.191, 0.191, 1.056, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 15625.00-15734.26, 55.01-62.00, 1.500, 4.700, 4.700, 0.191, 0.191, 1.056, 0, 0, 192, 248, 448, 480

So, the coloured bits need some explaining. The horizontal frequency (NAVY) is now a range covering both PAL & NTSC. It could even go a bit lower & higher, but "15625.00-15734.26" works for both and most intents and purposes.

The vertical frequency (ORANGE) values are tweaked so that 49.5 up to 55hz use the crt_range0 profile (~"PAL"), and 55.01 - 62hz use the crt_range1 profile (~"NTSC").

Finally, have a look near the end of the lines, third numbers from the end. On the red "288" is for crt_range0, "PAL", and says we have 288 (theoretically) visible progressive vertical lines in "PAL" modes. The purple "248" is for crt_range1, "NTSC".

This "248" is the important part. It tells max progressive lines, and has been deliberately tweaked from "240". Vmmaker, and GM, will now automatically use the "NTSC", or crt_range1 profiles, for generating/using modes with up to 248 vertical lines.

Next, go to the third tab in Vmmaker and edit the user_modes - super.ini file. This will allows Vmmaker to create super modes. Comment out the "2560x240" line like this:

## 2560 x 240 @ 60.000000 super

and replace it with (something like) this:

2560 x 244 @ 60.000000 super

You can go higher, but for my purposes 244p was enough. Vmmaker was able to generate a 2560x244p mode at just under 59hz.

Now, start a game with 224 vertical lines, such as Wonder Boy (512x224p @ 60), GM will automatically choose the 2560x244p @59 super mode. In my case the extra 4 lines was enough to get all of "PLAYER 1" onscreen (a few pixels were missing in 2560x240).

In Wonder Boy, I was able to reclaim a few lines at the top so I could see all of "PLAYER 1". I would attach some screenshots and discuss further, but is late already and I am tired, so will save that for tomorrow.

Games that use 320x240p will continue to automatically use that mode, if it is available. You could go further and also comment out (#) that mode from the "user_modes - super" list and replace it with something  like 320x244p. but beware, I think some non-MAME games may require 320x240p, might/possibly/maybe be an issue for some people/cases.

[EDIT: Minor rearrangements, GOOD NIGHT]

[c0de90e7]

There are a few ways to do it. The most blunt way is to create a [romname].ini file and put it in your /mame/ini folder.

...

Next, go to the third tab in Vmmaker and edit the user_modes - super.ini file. This will allows Vmmaker to create super modes. Comment out the "2560x240" line like this:

## 2560 x 240 @ 60.000000 super

and replace it with (something like) this:

2560 x 244 @ 60.000000 super

...

I think some non-MAME games may require 320x240p, might/possibly/maybe be an issue for some people/cases.

First off, thank very much.

I am only using MAME so that is not an issue. However, I had removed lower resolution, 2560x240 from user_modes - super.ini and redone the generation of resolutions, but I am still having GroovyMAME use x240 resolutions... I am using GroovyMAME 0.218 though, could be it needs updating...

Anyway, thank you, I'll retry all this.

[Zebidee]

Make sure to edit the monitor presets in monitor.ini, as described above, to tell VMMaker and GM what your TV can do. Easiest way is just copy/paste from what I posted & save. You can edit monitor.ini directly from within vmmaker (first tab). Then choose "China TV" (you could rename this!) from the pull-down list of monitor profiles.

If using the above monitor profile and you get some video modes that don't work, TV can't sync to (Sometimes TVs have problems with mid-50's frequencies, a range around ~55hz), then tweak/limit the frequency ranges to suit your TV. Something like 49.50 - 52.00 ("PAL") and 58.00 - 61.00 ("NTSC") should be fairly "safe".

To make sure GM doesn't choose any 240p modes, just don't give it any to use.

Go through your "user_modes - super.ini" and comment-out any other 240p modes there. Otherwise vmmaker will make them & GM will use them. You are using super modes? If not using super modes, you'd have to comment-out the 240p modelines in "user_modes.ini" (vmmaker, third tab, same place)

If you have (say) 320x240, in either file, you could comment that out and replace with 320x244.

While in vmmaker, go to the fourth (last) tab and make sure that you have your groovymame.exe file at the "MAME executable file path", and make sure to tick-the-box at "Export monitor settings to GroovyMAME" (this tells vmmaker to update the mame.ini with the monitor presets you edited/selected earlier, you want this).

... I am using GroovyMAME 0.218 though, could be it needs updating...

Before you go, I suggest you update your version of MAME. Since Groovymame 0.246 has added controls for geometry adjustment (Horizontal vertical stretch & position). Can be adjusted in-game and/or added as command-line options to automatically adjust every game. This might be all you need.

I'll put up some glossy pics later.

[Zebidee]

Here are some pics to demonstrate 244p vs 240p (super resolution 2560x244@59 vs 2560x240@60) using the Wonder Boy title screen. There isn't a huge difference, but it gets you a few extra vertical lines. 

Below is 2560x240p@60. The difference is more obvious in the corner pics. My "China TV" takes a very thin slice off the top of "PLAYER 1".  It is right at the top of the screen, so you can see it reflected on the bezel.

   




Now (below) we have 2560x244p@59. The "PLAYER 1" text is now fully onscreen, the missing pixels are restored. No more reflection from the bezel.

   



With Groovymame, the gameplay is smooth despite the vertical frequency mismatch (59hz vs 60hz), even on my old Core2Duo E7400.

Regarding my China TV, it is actually pretty darn good and I've already fiddled the service menu to reduce overscan, but it still hides some lines. If you have a keen eye you may also notice that the yoke has a slight tilt, (the top left corner is slightly higher than it should be), and the image needs to come back to the right a little. It came like that from the factory, I'll find time to adjust it someday. Anyway, the yoke tilt means only "PLAYER 1" is sliced off in 240p, but not "PLAYER 2".

Also that wboy is 512x224, so 240p gives an extra 16 lines to play with. With proper 240p games more active lines will be hidden on this TV. Mostly it doesn't matter if it is just the top of "HIGH SCORE" missing, but depends on the game (for example, may matter more for vertical shmups)

So whether you use 244p or whatever for your TV is up to you, it is just another tool in the box.

Don't forget that from GroovyMAME 0.246 geometry controls are now available, try them first. However they are limited in that they can't adjust vertical size.

[c0de90e7]

Here are some pics to demonstrate 244p vs 240p (super resolution 2560x244@59 vs 2560x240@60) using the Wonder Boy title screen. There isn't a huge difference, but it gets you a few extra vertical lines. 

...

With Groovymame, the gameplay is smooth despite the vertical frequency mismatch (59hz vs 60hz), even on my old Core2Duo E7400.

...

Don't forget that from GroovyMAME 0.246 geometry controls are now available, try them first. However they are limited in that they can't adjust vertical size.

Yes, that was my idea, gaining some lines with 248p, but after doing what you explain, I get range errors with switchres/groovymame... Iīll find out.

GroovyMame 0.218 and even lower ones have those horizontal controls, I use them a lot.

I also got a universal/clone remote for the TV and I will try to get to service menu, but anyway, I appreciate all the patience. Thank you

[Zebidee]

Yes, that was my idea, gaining some lines with 248p, but after doing what you explain, I get range errors with switchres/groovymame... Iīll find out.

In Vmmaker, go to fourth tab and make sure you are ticking the box to "export monitor settings to mame". If you don't do this then vmmaker and GM are working to different rules, not good. GM won't know what your monitor's cababilities are, and errors get generated.

If that doesn't work then you can produce a log file. See Calamity's sig for instructions - it is at the bottom of all his posts.

GroovyMame 0.218 and even lower ones have those horizontal controls, I use them a lot.

The geometry controls in latest GM (0.246+) are both in addition and better, great for CRT fans managing overscan. Worth the upgrade

I also got a universal/clone remote for the TV and I will try to get to service menu, but anyway, I appreciate all the patience. Thank you