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Author Topic: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error ***Error Solved***  (Read 2213 times)

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Falken Hawke

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Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error ***Error Solved***
« on: November 09, 2022, 07:47:25 pm »
Working going into storage but when pulled found corrupt video in the form of two stripes from top to bottom (w/monitor oriented vertically) about 1" wide and no audio. Test pattern distinctly show missing areas corresponding to mentioned stripes.

Any assistance with this is greatly appriciated.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 01:16:42 pm by Falken Hawke »

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2022, 04:02:51 pm »
Finally able to start looking around and found a couple of open capacitors.

Of course, being a weekend, the only source of passives is closed so dead in the water 'til Monday...

I guess I'll start collecting datasheets for now. Can't reallly continue with open circuits.

bobbyb13

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2022, 11:22:05 pm »
Wow, that IS really funky.

Wish I could be of use but I am NOT that smart yet.
Somebody here should know what is causing it though.

And that is a test pattern generated by the board?!
Never seen anything like it.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2022, 05:58:21 pm »
Hey Bobby!
This board has a test mode which has two screen test patterns, similar to the Neo Geo MVS  ;D

Figured out RAM Error address:
09 C0 10 0

I just cycled the Object Output Tests and compared their ID's with the error.

Unfortunately, also found no objects display in test which is interesting because play is largely unaffected.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 12:57:15 am by Falken Hawke »

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2022, 12:57:39 am »
Anyone familiar with Yamaha YM2203C and/or YM3014B?

bobbyb13

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2022, 12:20:39 am »
I saw that Delusional Jay had mentioned yotsuya has one of these!
I imagine if he catches wind of this thread he will chime in with wisdom of some sort.

Wish I could be more than moral support at this point.

At least I can keep bumping your thread until somebody smart sees it!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Mike A

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2022, 08:57:51 am »
Without a schematic, which probably is not generally available, this will be a real challenge.

The no audio problem can be partially diagnosed. Find the amp. Wire a small amp and speaker to the inputs in front of the on board amp and see if you get sound. If you do, then the amp is bad and needs to be replaced.

If there is no audio with this method then the problem lies further back in the circuit and...no schematic = big problem.

There are people that can probably figure this out without the schematic, but I am not that crafty even with a schematic.

I don't work on newer boards like this one so maybe this method won't work. I just figured I would throw it out there.



Have you put both sides of the PCB under a magnifier? Look for broken traces and bad solder joints?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 09:01:11 am by Mike A »

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2022, 08:17:35 pm »
i looked and looked hard and this was the best i could come up with for macross as far as a manual goes.
which really isn't much.

http://wwyss.ch/Arcades_Manuals/Manuals/Arcades/MACROSS_MANUAL.PDF
http://wwyss.ch/Arcades_Manuals/Manuals/Arcades/MACROSS.pdf

also, SO MANY arcade manuals and schematics on that site!

other games i found info on the CMOS errors.
the battery can go bad and corrupt the NVRAM.
they suggest new battery and going into the menu and doing a full factory restore.

i don't know if this helps.
if it worked going into storage the battery could of very well gone dead and corrupted the stored settings.

PL1

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2022, 05:04:04 am »
SO MANY arcade manuals and schematics on that site!
Bookmarked.   :cheers:


Scott

yotsuya

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2022, 11:24:04 am »
The audio on my board went out a year or so ago, it was just the audio amp. All you need to do is swap it out.


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yotsuya

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2022, 11:35:55 am »
Oh, one other thing, and itís minor, but check on it- make sure your power supply puts out -5v. Some power supplies donít but some JAMMA boards need them for audio. I scored a Macross II board for cheap on eBay listed as audio not working this way.


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Mike A

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2022, 11:39:28 am »
That is a good point.

I had a Super High Impact board that was missing a bunch of sounds, but not all of them.

My candy cab was not wired for -5V.

Hooked the -5V line up and I had full sound.


bobbyb13

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2022, 12:38:49 pm »
The symmetrical blank bars are one of the weirdest graphic failures I've seen.

What could cause something like that anyway?
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2022, 04:26:51 pm »
Thanks for all the help!

I'll be able to check -5 when I get home tonight.  The audio amp I traced back to find no input signals from the Yamaha YM2203C so not sure it's the amp.  Never confirmed where -5 went so if that's the issue, I'd be happy.

Still haven't looked at the display issue except for isolating it to the A01 ROM portion of the board.  Onve I have audio again, I'll look further.  Kimda want audio 1st since it is playable as it is.

Thanks again everyone!

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2022, 09:31:35 pm »
WOOT!!

So, not fixed but found HUGE help.  Time Soldiers uses a YM2203C as well!  Already confirmed stuck outputs so now will need to verify inputs and I/O paths to try and narrow down the issue.

Unfortunatey (or fortunately) I have a good -5V to the board.  As I've determined the YM2203C isn't sending output to the amp, I'll start tracing from there.

So I guess, Time Soldiers help maybe?  🤣

---EDIT---

...or not...  Looking at chip upside down🙄

Either way, known good comparison 😃

...and looking more like bad amp...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 09:50:45 pm by Falken Hawke »

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2022, 12:01:26 am »
LOL, I'm going to step away from this for a bit.  Obviously I'm tired and stuff...

I figured I have an audio amp board I just put together for another project so I could hook it up in place of the amp chip.

After doing all that, still no audio.  I was bummed as that would've been a simple fix but then I looked closely at my audio board...

Where are the heat sinks?  Wait, where are the amps?!  Frack, I didn't install them yet! 🤣

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2022, 09:32:24 pm »
So finally able to take a look at things again and decided to take a look at the LA4460 data sheet again and noticed there were pin voltages stated...  talk about overlooking things...


Anyway, whole lotta wrong out of it.  Verfied readings with Time Soldiers just to be extra certain.


Now I have someplace to begin with on the audio side.  Hopefully there isn't anything else further down the line.

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2022, 01:20:02 am »
Well, blind replaced the audio amp and no luck. Still didn't check the pin values 'cause disappointed...

Maybe start again tomorrow...

yotsuya

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2022, 10:23:05 pm »
Bummer, man. Thatís all I had to do for mine, but I didnít have any graphical issues.

Hereís hoping you can get it tracked down!


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Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2022, 09:22:32 pm »
Found a little more help on the audio side in the form of the schematic for "Ghosts & Goblins" which uses the YM2203 & YM3014 chips for audio.  The op-amp and amp chips are different but functions are similar.

Driving on...

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2022, 02:30:35 pm »
If anyone has an oscilloscope and working board, I was wondering if I could get a few waveforms verified?

If I could get the waveform from pin 38 on U33 (YM2203C), that would be appreciated :)

Also, U59 (74LS74), pins 3 & 11.

200mV @ 500uS x10

Thanks!

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2023, 03:18:00 pm »
So then...

I cleared my bench of arcade projects as my motorcycles each had something that needed to be done and since I daily ride, not having a motorcycle is a bigger issue than not having a fully working Macross.

Fast forward to setting up my bench to work on Macross again.  I'm getting out my notes and getting ready to make myself cross-eyed following traces when I power up the board.  I watch the screen for the intro and I get pummeled by the intro music!

I'll be honest, these are the kind of "fixes" I despise.  Basically I didn't isolate the issue with the sound before it decided to work again.  To be safe, I now need to go over everything again to isolate a good circuit compared with a malfunctioning one and hope I can pin down a failure point.

🤮🤬

As I write this listening to MIDI "Do You Remember Love?" playing from my board, I will say at least I can enjoy the game a bit more now 😁

So, back to square one!

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2023, 06:06:19 pm »
a pin was lifted off a pad somewhere and possible board flexion when it was put away and taken out caused it to make contact?

bobbyb13

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2023, 09:49:50 pm »
No don't go being defeatist about it!
You are at least at square one and a half.
 :)
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2023, 11:02:55 pm »
Stuck the Logic Analyzer on a few chips, two 6116's and a LS32.  One 6116 doesn't have activity on two I/O pins but the LS32 had a couple of outputs that didn't match their inputs.

Pulled the LS32 and plugged it into the tester, bad IC, gate 3 & gate 4 errors.

Since this is the first confirmed bad component, I'll start there and hopefully the graphics will be good and not something else down the line has failed as well.

Oh yeah, why did I choose those chips to test?  They were in the immediate vicinity of the A01 ROM chip, which I isolated earlier as the foreground graphics ROM.

Now if only I had a stash of LS32's...  The anticipation waiting for stuff is bad enough.  Waiting for parts is just cruel...

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2023, 03:22:51 am »
Well then...
74LS32 did not effect change...

At this point, I moved to the  U14 6116 which I avoided since I don't have a means to test them.  All I could do was piggy-back another one on it assuming a dead I/O would then go to the chip on top.  Unfortunately, this created more screen errors.

Following the traces from that 6116, I was led to U15, another 6116.  I piggy-backed that IC and this returned a complete test pattern screen 😁

I removed the U15 6116 and installed a socket.  Then I fired up the board sans U15 and got "RAM CHECK OK"!

Plugged in a new MB8416A (6116 compatible) from "Arcade Parts and Repair" and started up Macross again.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 03:25:00 am by Falken Hawke »

bobbyb13

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2023, 04:41:49 am »
Yeehaw!!!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2023, 09:40:16 am »
Fantastic.

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error ***Error Solved***
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2023, 08:05:23 pm »
Just adding some hindsight items...

Shown below are the Pattern and Color Bars test screens generated by the Macross board.

Following them are the logic waveforms of the U15 6116 I/O ports for their respective screens.

I would assume that the waveforms would be stable as the screens are static.  Scanning three times on each screen verified this.

...continues...

Falken Hawke

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error ***Error Solved***
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2023, 08:06:25 pm »
Going back to the bad RAM IC, while I would only be able to see each I/O had activity if I did not know what a good waveform looked like, scanning the IC while on the test screens three times made the issue with the IC obvious, as shown by these six waveform scans.

I hope that helps someone at some point :D
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 08:10:05 pm by Falken Hawke »

yotsuya

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Re: Macross PCB No Audio & CMOS Error ***Error Solved***
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2023, 12:24:38 pm »
Nice! Glad you got it fixed!


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