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Author Topic: Atari volcano button  (Read 568 times)

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dhansen

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Atari volcano button
« on: September 29, 2022, 03:48:10 pm »
Anyone have any experience with these buttons from Arcade Shop?  https://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1539/atari-lighted-start-push-button.htm
Running with a 60-in-1 cocktail cab and not sure what it takes to light these up.


Thanks in advance!
Doug
..as his cold lifeless fingers lie motionless on the garage floor, all he could hear in his head was...I JUST WANTED TO PLAY A GAME OF DONKEY KONG!!

dhansen

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2022, 04:26:31 pm »
from the site... Reproduction Atari lighted LED start button. The button includes a 6.8k resistor.  If using this button on a custom build, a 29/64" hole is needed.
 
Reference Atari part number:  62-039.
..as his cold lifeless fingers lie motionless on the garage floor, all he could hear in his head was...I JUST WANTED TO PLAY A GAME OF DONKEY KONG!!

PL1

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2022, 06:00:00 pm »
Anyone have any experience with these buttons from Arcade Shop?  https://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1539/atari-lighted-start-push-button.htm
Running with a 60-in-1 cocktail cab and not sure what it takes to light these up.
AFAIK the repro volcano buttons from arcadeshop have a built-in current limiting resistor for 5v that the OEM ones didn't.
- You can grab 5v+ground from the 60-in-1's trackball connector if you don't have a trackball or get them directly from the power supply.

Javeryh's build thread has a very detailed discussion starting with reply #513 here thru reply #548 on the next page.

If you get a chance, would you mind posting a total of five multimeter readings in this thread so we can work out some specs for the LED and built-in resistor.
- It would involve two configurations, one without an external current-limiting resistor and one with.
- Two current readings and three voltage readings should be enough data to reverse-engineer the specs.
- I'll post details and diagrams if you can assist with this.   :cheers:


Scott

lilshawn

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2022, 03:47:03 pm »
originals were driven at like 6.5 something volts AC from a "lighting" tap on the main power supply transformer. whether or not these are a reproduction or true to original reproduction or just a reproduction in physical look is going to determine what is in (led or a standard tungsten bulb.)

no idea what it would be if they supply a 6.8k resistor as an LED running on 5v is like a 220 ohm resistor and running it at 12 volts, could be 470 to 1k ohms depending if its a GaAs led or a GaAsP red led... if red at all. but a 6.8k it seems like it could be neon to be run at 110v but at this point in the dive WTFK.

best bet is to contact the guys at your chosen point of purchase and ask them what they've done since they made it.

PL1

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2022, 04:10:16 pm »
originals were driven at like 6.5 something volts AC from a "lighting" tap on the main power supply transformer. whether or not these are a reproduction or true to original reproduction or just a reproduction in physical look is going to determine what is in (led or a standard tungsten bulb.)

The arcadeshop repros are LED (polarized), not incandescent. (non-polarized)
Alright... wiring is complete and... nothing.  LEDs not lighting up.
Itís alive!!!!

OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it.


Scott

leapinlew

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2022, 06:24:02 pm »
I ordered them for my Tempest. I just run a constant 5v to them to keep them lit.




Zebidee

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2022, 07:24:47 pm »
It is quite possible to light a standard LED using 5v supply and a 6.8k resistor inline to limit current. It could be quite bright too. In this application the resistor is less about dividing voltage and more about limiting current.

The only difference between that and using a 220R is that the LED will be less bright (worst case scenario is the LED won't light at all).

On GreenAntz units I mostly use a standard green 3mm LED + 68k resistor (that's right, 68000 ohms, works with blue too). This makes the LED easily visible when lit, but not distractingly so. It also means the LED draws a very very small amount of current (I confirmed by measuring the amps).

The resistor does not get hot, or even warm, as there is barely a trickle of current going through it.

A lot depends on the individual LEDs used, but point is: you don't need to run LEDs at 20mA or whatever, you can limit the current quite substantially.


best bet is to contact the guys at your chosen point of purchase and ask them what they've done since they made it.

Do this ^^
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lilshawn

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2022, 04:58:08 pm »
i dunno man, 5v  through a typical red LED (red usually being between 1.8 to 2.1v forward voltage ... a 6.8k resistor only lets through between 0.43 and 0.49mA

red is gonna want about 16mA on the low side... 0.5 will probably make it dimly glow...but not much.

not sure what kind of dealybop they got going in there ...maybe they have a multi chip LED or something... but even at 2 in parallel 6.8k is only 0.60mA

unless someone screwed up what resistor is actually in there but 220ish ohms should be about right for 5v


6.8k would be good for 115v (2.1v forward, 16.6mA current)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 05:00:43 pm by lilshawn »

PL1

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2022, 06:52:38 pm »
i dunno man, 5v  through a typical red LED (red usually being between 1.8 to 2.1v forward voltage
Yes, that's the typical voltage range for a red LED by itself.

If the LED was by itself (i.e. no current limiting resistor), applying 5v to it would definitely let out the magic smoke, but that's not what happened to Drakkorcia.
I originally used these with my zero delays and plugged them into the 5V power slot and they worked perfectly.

All available evidence supports that these volcano repros include an internal current limiting resistor similar to the one in this field-stripped wedge-base 12v LED.



This is also supported by what Zebidee read on Facebook.
There was a Facebook thread recently on volcano buttons and I mentioned the need to use a resistor with them, but somebody else commented that they now have a resistor built-in. Not a great authority, but there you are.

6.8k would be good for 115v (2.1v forward, 16.6mA current)
That does appear to be the reason for including that resistor.   :cheers:


Scott
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 07:01:03 pm by PL1 »

Zebidee

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Re: Atari volcano button
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2022, 07:03:38 pm »
i dunno man, 5v  through a typical red LED (red usually being between 1.8 to 2.1v forward voltage ... a 6.8k resistor only lets through between 0.43 and 0.49mA

red is gonna want about 16mA on the low side... 0.5 will probably make it dimly glow...but not much.

not sure what kind of dealybop they got going in there ...maybe they have a multi chip LED or something... but even at 2 in parallel 6.8k is only 0.60mA

unless someone screwed up what resistor is actually in there but 220ish ohms should be about right for 5v


6.8k would be good for 115v (2.1v forward, 16.6mA current)


Your doubt is understandable. I had trouble believing it myself until I did some research and experimenting.

When I did my own current calculations, the GreenAntz LEDs were burning a unbelievably small amount of power, much less than 0.5mA. Yet they are/were lit and clearly visible, and I confirmed by measuring how much current was being used overall (essentially no change for adding the LED).

That's great because the units only draw around 85mA, keeps it below 100mA and well under < 0.5W

So, try it out yourself with some breadboard, or whatever works for you, and some different LEDs. The ones I'm using are common 3mm "bright" LEDs, ironically I make them fairly dim.

Honestly, those LED calculators are a bit misleading. The values they spit out are really the minimum you should use to avoid burning the LED out.

There is no danger in using a higher value resistor, so long as it is rated for the power that will be running through it. If you are just going up in values, and for most arcade button LED applications, that isn't really a concern.

I've done a similar trick for a IKEA LED strip ("NOS") I'm using for a marquee light, though power rating was a concern there. The LED strip is the perfect size for the light bay, but much too bright (designed for installation under cupboards, lighting kitchen counters). It uses 24v and normally consumes 5.3W. So I did some math, applied ohms law, and settled on a 470R 3W rated resistor to limit the current. Now it is just the right brightness and consumes approximately 1W power.

That 470R 3W resistor is just barely warm after running for hours, days, because it is limiting the current and therefore the power consumption. Even though 3W is less than the original 5.3W, it is more than enough for the new 1W.



I wrote it up here.
Check out my completed projects!