E-Bikes!

[Mike A]

Please bloviate some more.

[RandyT]

Please bloviate some more.

If you insist.  Here's some other bloviations you might enjoy (your definition, not mine.)

[pbj]

You ok, Randy?  That was weird, even for you.

I'm partial to the frog and the scorpion, myself.

[RandyT]

You ok, Randy?  That was weird, even for you.

Which part?     Is "You're weird" really the first thing to enter your mind when you read it?

I'm partial to the frog and the scorpion, myself.

That's a good one.  Even applicable.  But I can't know for sure why you brought it up without context. 

[Zebidee]

Frogs... well, I think we are like those frogs in a pot on the stove. The heat is on and the temperature is rising, while we pretend nothing is happening.

Maybe we need our scorpion "buddies" to help us see the reality.

[RandyT]

Frogs... well, I think we are like those frogs in a pot on the stove. The heat is on and the temperature is rising, while we pretend nothing is happening.

Maybe we need our scorpion "buddies" to help us see the reality.

What if the scorpions are the ones controlling the burner valve?  I mean, if they're capable of crossing into different parables, there's no telling what they can do.  Or are frogs and scorpions intrinsically linked, like good and evil, one unable to exist without the other?  As it was the nature of the frog to be blind to the scorpion's ways, causing their mutual demise, which one is evil? Both?  Neither? Or just the frog for allowing the situation to exist?

And what if it is the nature of the pot itself to heat up and cool and then heat up again, in cycles and forever?  Is it necessary to involve the scorpion at all, knowing it can only frighten the frogs who were in no danger before?  Is it only to mask the pot's true nature so the frogs will jump out and into the frying pan?

Wait, what were we talking about again? 

[Zebidee]

  Muddled mixed metaphors make messy messages?

[danny_galaga]

Wow    I didn't expect you to be a climate change denier Randy.

I'm smart enough to say "I don't know with any certainty" and I honestly can't believe that people can be so dim as to continue to believe others who lie to us seemingly without limit or repercussion.  Remember, you are taking the word of someone who is unable to accurately predict the weather 3 days in advance, yet they unashamedly make predictions regarding it 25 years into the future.  Did I mention that most of their incomes depend on taking an "accepted" stance on the subject?

What I do know is that there are graphs which correlate rising temperatures directly with increased solar activity for the time in question.  Anyone who thinks anything we do can counteract solar deviation either has a grandiose sense of their own abilities, or they should probably limit their interaction with humanity to serving tacos.

Just thought I'd mention that sometimes if people have differing ideas on a subject, then sometimes certain people will assign the same weight to each argument.

Example 1)

Person A - 2+2=4

Person B - 2+2=5

[Xiaou2]

Frogs... well, I think we are like those frogs in a pot on the stove. The heat is on and the temperature is rising, while we pretend nothing is happening.

Maybe we need our scorpion "buddies" to help us see the reality.

 Climate Denier ?!   >_<   We have another  Lemming  that has accepted the Mass Media Drivel,
without any Questioning at all.   You do realize, that Scientists always Question everything... right?

 You do realize... that the Scientists of the past, used to think that it was safe for Children to handle
Lead and Mercury, with their bare hands?   That Asbestos, was a safe and miraculous insulation
material... right?    That BAD Science was questioned... and was proven  Bad / Wrong.


 When I was a little boy in school, they played a film about how dire everything was... and how every house
would have solar panels,  and every house would be growing their own food in their gardens.

 That was in the 70s.

 The Radicals have been screeching about  "Global Warming"  for so long, its not even funny... and guess what?
The average temperatures have been getting colder and colder, every year.  That is why they have to change
the term from  "Global Warming"  into   "Climate Change".

 - The so called  "Science"   has been littered with fraudulent data,  on purpose.
 - Any Scientists that have disputed the bogus data,  has been attacked, and career destroyed.
 - The Earth regularly released Methane, CO2, and many other gases... in MASS quantities, through natural
seepage.  Often through Volcanic activity... but not limited to it.

 - The Earth is probably releasing more natural Methane, CO2, etc.. into the atmosphere, in 5 yrs time, than
the entire history of man kinds pollution efforts, since the dawn of our existence.

 - Every older Climate Model has Failed to predict the temperature targets.
 - Every older climate model, has completely NEGLECTED solar activity, as a source of changes in global heat.
IE: Solar Flares, Solar Activity, Solar activity Cycles, Radiation, and Magnetic forces

 - Virtually every ECO based solution, has proven to be ineffective, costly, and often doing more damages than
was supposed to repair.

 - The Modern Military probably devours more fuel and energy in a year, than every standard citizens uses
combined.

 - Firing off a SINGLE particle experiment at CERN... probably takes about an entire Cities worth of Energy.
(and they have virtually nothing to show for decades of efforts)

 - Nobody dares calculate the Fuel and energy usage of Nasa, either.

 - The Presidential feet, consisting of countless SUVs of agents, his personal Jet, Helicopter, and the Military
vehicles that also help protected him, and many other govt. officials... does not bother these Hypocrites.

 - Big OBESE Eco-Propaganda figures, are seen with giant mansions... using only a room or two.. and have
no issues heating and cooling them... even if they are not even being occupied for months at a time.
These cats, dont live in tiny-houses.   They dont power their life with Solar Batteries, nor limit their
consumption, at all.

 - The Elite,  want the Lemming Slave class, eating Bugs.  Trust me.. they are NEVER going to be eating
bugs themselves.   It is only for people like yourself... whom are easily brainwashed into accepting it.

 - When changing from standard Lead Based Soldier to Lead-Free soldier... it was discovered that the new
soldier does not flow properly... and creates both bad soldier joints, as well as micro-spikes, that break
off due to temperature changes and or vibrations.  They fall onto the PCBs.. and cause Electrical Shorts.

 As a result... you now have at least a 15% chance of buying a BRAND NEW electronic device, and it being
completely dead, right out of the box.   And if it survives that... you will be lucky if your new device will
survive past the 3 yr marker.   Id guess that about 65% or more electronics, are failing in less than a
3 yr timespan.   Look at all of the LCD TVs that do not have cracked screens... out on the curbs.
Mine had less than 30hrs of use, before it decided to pass away.   No power light.  Completely Deceased.

 Why do you think that all of the electronic warranties switched to a 1yr model?   Because they know it.
They knew it from day 1.   The ECO radicals figured that someone would have figured out a better
working solution by now... but that was over a decade ago... and they have not made Any progress
with the issues.

 Rather than a small trace amount of lead in soldier... in items that used to last over 2 decades
of usage...  we now have literally 1000 times the E-Waste, from these failed devices.  Think of all of the
materials, shipping fuel, manual labor (food energy costs + travel), waste delivery costs (trash trucks),
and material separation, partial recycling, and lot burial costs.  And that multiplication, is for every single
year,  that they choose to stick with the faulty Eco-Solution.

 - Interestingly enough... while they have a problem with lead getting into the environment they
have no problem Directly Injecting the most toxic Heavy Metal into a Humans Veins:  Mercury.
(Thimerosal)

 - In fact, it took ages before the Dental industry to pull Mercury from Dental Fillings... despite being
tone of PROOF that it was leeching into anyone that had them.   It probably took another decade,
before Dental offices finally stopped using Mercury fillings... because they wanted to use all of the
previous stock up... with no concern for the patients long term health issues.

 - Mercury is literally one of the most Toxic substances, for a human being to come in contact with.
It makes lead look like harmless Candy, comparatively.  Look up the Term "Mad Hatter", and why
it exists.


 There is actual "Climate Change".  Its natural, on an all natural cycle.  There are Radically bad periods, noted
throughout History.  Many past civilizations, left in ruins, and or vanished without a trace.  Places that
are Desert today... that used to be a lush green jungles.  The Poles have Flipped before.  And they are in the
process of flipping right now.


 Now... I used to be concerned about many of these things... As I too, bought the propaganda, that was fed to
me.  But over time... seeing evidence of the ECO partys corruption.  Seeing proof of falsified data.  Seeing how
Hypocritical these types actually are... etc..  Ive leaned to be FAR more skeptical about ANYTHING the
corrupted media, has puked out.

 IMO,  there are many things that deserve to be changed... such as,  the careful removal of Asbestos.
Lead Paint, from old houses.  Toxic Chemical spills / dump sites.  The Elimination of toxic chemicals in our
food supply.  Banning of disposable plastic drink containers... and going back to all-natural glass, which
will be cleaned and or recycled, after use.  Penalties for companies that make products that end up failing
within less than a certain window of time/usage.  Better public transport systems.

 The potential of digging down... and building apartments and businesses that are under-ground...
leaving the space above, to be green parks, recreational areas, natural hunting areas, and for food growth.
No more concrete parking lots, eating up space.  No more issues, with having to deal with heavy
snow removal, nor dangerous black-Ice ... as virtually all travel would also be under-ground.


 But the ECO Agenda, is far less about the Environment... and far more about Absolute Global power and
control.


 The Agenda pushers often use Emotion, rather than Logic and non-corrupted data.  Do not allow yourself
to be controlled by Emotional hot-buttons.  Take a deep breath, disconnect emotionally... and use logic,
and rational thought.  Get information from many different non-official sources, to compare against.

 Things are not what they seem.

[danny_galaga]

Frogs... well, I think we are like those frogs in a pot on the stove. The heat is on and the temperature is rising, while we pretend nothing is happening.

Maybe we need our scorpion "buddies" to help us see the reality.

 Climate Denier ?!   >_<   We have another  Lemming  that has accepted the Mass Media Drivel,
without any Questioning at all.   You do realize, that Scientists always Question everything... right?

 You do realize... that the Scientists of the past, used to think that it was safe for Children to handle
Lead and Mercury, with their bare hands?   That Asbestos, was a safe and miraculous insulation
material... right?    That BAD Science was questioned... and was proven  Bad / Wrong.


 When I was a little boy in school, they played a film about how dire everything was... and how every house
would have solar panels,  and every house would be growing their own food in their gardens.

 That was in the 70s.

 The Radicals have been screeching about  "Global Warming"  for so long, its not even funny... and guess what?
The average temperatures have been getting colder and colder, every year.  That is why they have to change
the term from  "Global Warming"  into   "Climate Change".

 - The so called  "Science"   has been littered with fraudulent data,  on purpose.
 - Any Scientists that have disputed the bogus data,  has been attacked, and career destroyed.
 - The Earth regularly released Methane, CO2, and many other gases... in MASS quantities, through natural
seepage.  Often through Volcanic activity... but not limited to it.

 - The Earth is probably releasing more natural Methane, CO2, etc.. into the atmosphere, in 5 yrs time, than
the entire history of man kinds pollution efforts, since the dawn of our existence.

 - Every older Climate Model has Failed to predict the temperature targets.
 - Every older climate model, has completely NEGLECTED solar activity, as a source of changes in global heat.
IE: Solar Flares, Solar Activity, Solar activity Cycles, Radiation, and Magnetic forces

 - Virtually every ECO based solution, has proven to be ineffective, costly, and often doing more damages than
was supposed to repair.

 - The Modern Military probably devours more fuel and energy in a year, than every standard citizens uses
combined.

 - Firing off a SINGLE particle experiment at CERN... probably takes about an entire Cities worth of Energy.
(and they have virtually nothing to show for decades of efforts)

 - Nobody dares calculate the Fuel and energy usage of Nasa, either.

 - The Presidential feet, consisting of countless SUVs of agents, his personal Jet, Helicopter, and the Military
vehicles that also help protected him, and many other govt. officials... does not bother these Hypocrites.

 - Big OBESE Eco-Propaganda figures, are seen with giant mansions... using only a room or two.. and have
no issues heating and cooling them... even if they are not even being occupied for months at a time.
These cats, dont live in tiny-houses.   They dont power their life with Solar Batteries, nor limit their
consumption, at all.

 - The Elite,  want the Lemming Slave class, eating Bugs.  Trust me.. they are NEVER going to be eating
bugs themselves.   It is only for people like yourself... whom are easily brainwashed into accepting it.

 - When changing from standard Lead Based Soldier to Lead-Free soldier... it was discovered that the new
soldier does not flow properly... and creates both bad soldier joints, as well as micro-spikes, that break
off due to temperature changes and or vibrations.  They fall onto the PCBs.. and cause Electrical Shorts.

 As a result... you now have at least a 15% chance of buying a BRAND NEW electronic device, and it being
completely dead, right out of the box.   And if it survives that... you will be lucky if your new device will
survive past the 3 yr marker.   Id guess that about 65% or more electronics, are failing in less than a
3 yr timespan.   Look at all of the LCD TVs that do not have cracked screens... out on the curbs.
Mine had less than 30hrs of use, before it decided to pass away.   No power light.  Completely Deceased.

 Why do you think that all of the electronic warranties switched to a 1yr model?   Because they know it.
They knew it from day 1.   The ECO radicals figured that someone would have figured out a better
working solution by now... but that was over a decade ago... and they have not made Any progress
with the issues.

 Rather than a small trace amount of lead in soldier... in items that used to last over 2 decades
of usage...  we now have literally 1000 times the E-Waste, from these failed devices.  Think of all of the
materials, shipping fuel, manual labor (food energy costs + travel), waste delivery costs (trash trucks),
and material separation, partial recycling, and lot burial costs.  And that multiplication, is for every single
year,  that they choose to stick with the faulty Eco-Solution.

 - Interestingly enough... while they have a problem with lead getting into the environment they
have no problem Directly Injecting the most toxic Heavy Metal into a Humans Veins:  Mercury.
(Thimerosal)

 - In fact, it took ages before the Dental industry to pull Mercury from Dental Fillings... despite being
tone of PROOF that it was leeching into anyone that had them.   It probably took another decade,
before Dental offices finally stopped using Mercury fillings... because they wanted to use all of the
previous stock up... with no concern for the patients long term health issues.

 - Mercury is literally one of the most Toxic substances, for a human being to come in contact with.
It makes lead look like harmless Candy, comparatively.  Look up the Term "Mad Hatter", and why
it exists.


 There is actual "Climate Change".  Its natural, on an all natural cycle.  There are Radically bad periods, noted
throughout History.  Many past civilizations, left in ruins, and or vanished without a trace.  Places that
are Desert today... that used to be a lush green jungles.  The Poles have Flipped before.  And they are in the
process of flipping right now.


 Now... I used to be concerned about many of these things... As I too, bought the propaganda, that was fed to
me.  But over time... seeing evidence of the ECO partys corruption.  Seeing proof of falsified data.  Seeing how
Hypocritical these types actually are... etc..  Ive leaned to be FAR more skeptical about ANYTHING the
corrupted media, has puked out.

 IMO,  there are many things that deserve to be changed... such as,  the careful removal of Asbestos.
Lead Paint, from old houses.  Toxic Chemical spills / dump sites.  The Elimination of toxic chemicals in our
food supply.  Banning of disposable plastic drink containers... and going back to all-natural glass, which
will be cleaned and or recycled, after use.  Penalties for companies that make products that end up failing
within less than a certain window of time/usage.  Better public transport systems.

 The potential of digging down... and building apartments and businesses that are under-ground...
leaving the space above, to be green parks, recreational areas, natural hunting areas, and for food growth.
No more concrete parking lots, eating up space.  No more issues, with having to deal with heavy
snow removal, nor dangerous black-Ice ... as virtually all travel would also be under-ground.


 But the ECO Agenda, is far less about the Environment... and far more about Absolute Global power and
control.


 The Agenda pushers often use Emotion, rather than Logic and non-corrupted data.  Do not allow yourself
to be controlled by Emotional hot-buttons.  Take a deep breath, disconnect emotionally... and use logic,
and rational thought.  Get information from many different non-official sources, to compare against.

 Things are not what they seem.

Example 2

Person A- man first set foot on the moon in 1969

Person B- man has never set foot on the moon

[fallacy]

Lets be real, China is going to kill us all. They pollute more than every country combined, they are killing and fishing the oceans bear. Their country is bigger than the US and they managed to kill every single wild animal to extinction. There are no birds in China? They killed all of them. I hear they are trying to colonize Africa to steal their resources at the moment. They won't stop until nothing is left.

[danny_galaga]

Lets be real, China is going to kill us all. They pollute more than every country combined, they are killing and fishing the oceans bear. Their country is bigger than the US and they managed to kill every single wild animal to extinction. There are no birds in China? They killed all of them. I hear they are trying to colonize Africa to steal their resources at the moment. They won't stop until nothing is left.

Where will your E bike be made?

[fallacy]

Vietnam

[RandyT]

Example 2

Person A- man first set foot on the moon in 1969

Person B- man has never set foot on the moon

Example 3

Person A- Polar bears didn't go extinct due to global warming

Person B- Polar bears are gone.  The grizzly bears all turned white due to climate change

[Zebidee]

Example 4

Person A - Global warming will make the polar ice caps melt and cause oceans to rise, let's make plans

Person B - Glug glug glug

[pbj]

Just a reminder that Xiaou2 was thoroughly convinced that President Obama was personally ordering dissidents rounded up onto trains and taken to death camps strategically located throughout the country.  Millions of Americans were disappearing without a trace.

 

[RandyT]

Just a reminder that Xiaou2 was thoroughly convinced that President Obama was personally ordering dissidents rounded up onto trains and taken to death camps strategically located throughout the country.  Millions of Americans were disappearing without a trace.

One can be wrong about some things and still be right about others.

[Mike A]

When people believe something that incredibly stupid, taking them seriously about anything else is dumb.

This is one of the few internet forums that isn't stuffed with people's dumb ass political beliefs.

Let's keep it that way.

Nobody is going to change their mind.

Just ---smurfing--- stop already.

[RandyT]

When people believe something that incredibly stupid, taking them seriously about anything else is dumb.

Yet some people, albeit far fewer than before, still watch MSNBC and CNN.  I'll even throw in FOX to make you happy.

This is one of the few internet forums that isn't stuffed with people's dumb ass political beliefs.

Let's keep it that way.

Says the guy with a Ukraine flag and a peace symbol as his user pic.  So, do as I say and not as I do?

[Mike A]

I removed it for that reason.

It wasn't a political statement.

But I can see how people like you might construe it that way.

[Mike A]

A peace symbol as a political statement? You are ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the head.

[RandyT]

A peace symbol as a political statement? You are ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the head.

Why only peace in Ukraine?  Don't you care about other peoples?  (nice try though)

[Mike A]

Not getting dragged into your stupid ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Ukraine was minding their own business and another country attacked them.

I don't like that. I prefer when people are not killing each other.

If you want to try to tell me what I believe you can go ---fudgesicle--- yourself.

That is all I will say on this matter.

Hopefully the mods wipe out the whole ---smurfing--- thing.

[RandyT]

Ukraine was minding their own business and another country attacked them.

Political belief #1

I don't like that. I prefer when people are not killing each other.

I don't either.  That symbol is even in our logo, but without denoting a people, race or creed. 

[pbj]

That symbol is even in our logo, but without denoting a people, race or creed.

So brave.

 

[RandyT]

Lets be real, China is going to kill us all. They pollute more than every country combined, they are killing and fishing the oceans bear. Their country is bigger than the US and they managed to kill every single wild animal to extinction. There are no birds in China? They killed all of them. I hear they are trying to colonize Africa to steal their resources at the moment. They won't stop until nothing is left.

My take on that situation is China is getting a pass.  Not because anyone particularly likes it, but because they have become the defacto manufacturing hub of the world by their own design.  Slave and low-wage labor, lax-to-non-existent environmental control, iron-fisted government control over production with subsidization to meet their ends even if working at a loss.  Basically, everything we can't or won't do to be able to compete with them.  They are in-it-to-win-it and don't care how long it takes.  At some point, the costs will go higher on their products, and we are already seeing some of that.

But it's not entirely their fault.  Westerners are consumers, first and foremost.  Every time we buy some imported trinket or gadget from a massive Amazon warehouse, it inches them forward.  But it's not all bad for us, at least in the short term.  The low-cost and availability of those items has enriched the lives of millions world-wide.  Even our poorest live better than Kings and Queens of old. 

It's easy to say "buy only American", but quite another to do it.  The decline of western manufacturing brought about mostly by the costs to sustain it, has led to us having few if any other options.  Few will choose to pay more for something for the sake of an ideology, because doing so will have a direct impact on their quality of life.

The folks in power know all of this already.  We've not lost yet, but I'm not sure we have the temerity as a people anymore to take up the fight.  So don't worry about where your e-bike comes from.   

So brave.

I was part of the "war machine" at one time in my life, so it has meaning to me.  It's been there for close to 20 years and it didn't seem to make much of a difference in the world.  But maybe the next time it gets pasted onto an image on the internet it'll be "the time" that it does.

  

[danny_galaga]

Vietnam

Ha, ya got me there 😄

[danny_galaga]

Example 3

Person A- the evidence has been overwhelming for decades that humans are causing climate change.

Person B- the jury is still out on climate change.

Funny how the jury seems most out in countries that have a large fossil fuel industry. Like Australia, Canada USA Russia etc.

A good example of how the 'jury is out' (which is not a thing in science) is the difference between Fox News in Australia and Fox News UK. In Australia, according to Fix News, anything to do with climate change must be a socialist conspiracy. In the UK, not only is Fox News on board with the reality of climate change, they even have a climate change desk!

[RandyT]

A good example of how the 'jury is out' (which is not a thing in science)...

It absolutely is a thing in science.  It's "shorthand" for saying that there is no consensus.  In fact, the "jury is out" on a lot of what we consider scientific endeavors.  Cosmology is a glaring example. Honest cosmologists admit that we know AT THE MOST, about 15% of what makes the Universe "tick." The "Big Bang" is treated as fact by many, even though we cannot, nor will we ever be able to conduct experiments which can accurately test the theory, and occasionally new discoveries and theories pop up to rattle it's foundation.  We can only observe remnants and draw conclusions about a past event we can never re-create or witness first-hand.  Everything we think we know as fact is based on laws of physics and our observation of predictable and reproducible behaviors.   We don't even know if the laws of physics as we understand them today, were even applicable to that event. But that doesn't prevent us from trying to use them to explain it.

But here's a fun fact.  Those who subscribe to "global warming", "climate change", (insert next scary term here) seem to be chalking the cause up to increased greenhouse gasses (co2, methane, etc.) in the atmosphere.  Even though the catastrophic events linked to those in the past have taken between 20,000 and 150,000 years (our best guesses) to manifest, few seem to be concerned that we are basing conclusions on a segment of time 1/866th of that period (averaged) where we have been tracking temperature.  We also have little clue as to the swings in temperatures over the time it took to get there.

But here's the real problem.  Every living creature on this planet is a CO2/methane manufacturing machine.  Me, you, your kids, your dog, even your goldfish.  In the last 200 years, the global human population has gone from 1 Billion people to right around 8 Billion.  You can probably imagine the resulting increased populations of animals as companions or as sources of food in relation to those humans.  Unabated, this number is expected to rise to over 11 billion by the year 2100.   

The planet is in no danger from this or further increases.  It is a self-correcting system and will do what it always does when things get out of balance.  When the time is right, the earth will shed us, as it has done with countless other species, and something different will take our place when conditions allow it to flourish as we have.  And it will do the same to them. 

But make no mistake.  This "climate change" movement is a de-population movement, just by a different name.  That means YOU and your offspring are the problem and have to go.  If you are fine with that, then by all means, rail away.  Just be sure that you understand the ramifications and that a few natural occurrences (volcanic eruptions, oceanic methane releases, increased solar events, etc.) might just undo ten-fold any tiny thing you might accomplish to help stave it off.   In the meantime, you might want to get started on that plants and bugs diet so you can start doing your part.  Maybe eat your pets first to get things kickstarted.

is the difference between Fox News in Australia and Fox News UK. In Australia, according to Fix News, anything to do with climate change must be a socialist conspiracy. In the UK, not only is Fox News on board with the reality of climate change, they even have a climate change desk!

Corporate news media sways in the winds of the hysterical masses.  They follow anything which they believe will feed their bottom lines, and that changes with geographic location and market conditions.  It's the reason you really shouldn't listen to any of them with anything other than an educated and critical ear.

[danny_galaga]

The problem is you have scientists relevant to the field saying we are changing the climate, and then other experts offered up as an equally viable alternative theory. But those other experts are quite often involved in the industries that stand the most to lose from any action to reduce human created greenhouse gases. My partner is a denier like you and I don't know how many times I've heard a climate 'expert' on the wretched radio station she listens to. They do a lot of 'appeal to authority ' . A lot of the 'experts' are geologists. And when you google their names, surprise surprise they work for, or consult for coal mining companies. You said earlier 'follow the money'. Does that not count for 'researchers' who work for the fossil fuel industry?

I once heard one of these geologists say that volcanoes put out way more CO2 than humans. This is nonsense. The average listener of that station would be thinking "well he's a geologist, he should know'. You know who knows? A VULCANologist. When it comes to knowledge of volcanoes, the opinions of  those two experts does not have equal weight. Interestingly, those radio shows Never have a climate scientist as a guest. That would break down the denial web in one hour.

Many fossil fuel companies  even use the same consultants.

My partner is smarter than me, and I bet you are too, but that didn't make you immune from the crooked reasoning being peddled by those lobbyists. It's the same technique the tobacco lobby used. In fact one of the big ones, the Heartland Institute, was formed to lobby for tobacco AND oil. The constant barrage of side arguments that are not science sows doubt in the public mind. Like tobacco, they frame it as a question of freedom etc. But science isn't a question of freedom. That's another matter. So is what you do with the knowledge that we are making the world warmer.

[Howard_Casto]

Climate change is real, full stop, no need for further explanation.   People that don't "believe" in it don't "believe" in things, like logic, the scientific method, common sense and frikkin observing the planet getting hotter with their own senses and therefore aren't worth arguing with.  It's like trying to explain purple to a blind man.... the concept is so foreign to them that they don't have any frame of reference.   

[Zebidee]

Radny, I am sick of hearing your anti-climate change conspiracy rubbish.

Take it somewhere else. This thread is about e-bikes.

If you can't leave it alone, at least stay on topic.

[pbj]

Lead, schmead, in 100 years we'll all be dead.

[RandyT]

I once heard one of these geologists say that volcanoes put out way more CO2 than humans. This is nonsense. The average listener of that station would be thinking "well he's a geologist, he should know'. You know who knows? A VULCANologist.

Well, first of all, the amount of CO2 expelled by a volcano should be based on empirical data, so it wouldn't matter if it was regurgitated by a geologist or your babysitter.  The numbers should still be the same.  You also assume that there are no monetary/political interests involved by those rooted in academia, which couldn't be farther from the truth.  They have much more to lose from not aligning themselves with certain governmental interests.  In fact, just days ago legislation was adopted which benefited them greatly under the guise of student loan forgiveness.  It's a lot easier to decide to sign up for classes if you think there's a good chance you won't ever be forced to pay back the loan you needed to do so.  If this was done for the auto industry, they'd be selling like hotcakes!  Then of course there are research grants being fought for by all of these institutions. You don't think that they are handed out to an institution likely to come to an opposing conclusion, do you?

Money is involved on both sides, and no matter what your opinion is on the subject, you are personally paying the costs of lobbyists for BOTH sides of the argument.  The difference is that you probably got something you wanted from the free-market capitalist.

Radny, I am sick of hearing your anti-climate change conspiracy rubbish.

You could always place your head back in the sand or not read my posts

If you can't leave it alone, at least stay on topic.

I'm just responding to others, as I am now to both of you.  Since neither of you apparently read what I wrote, I'm not denying that temperatures are increasing, at least based on the measurements taken over the time in question.

I even gave you the main reason.  Climate change is man-made at the lowest of levels.  You two obviously seem ok with living in a devolving world, along with your offspring and their offspring (if they are allowed any by then.)  But there are roughly 100,000,000 in this country alone who aren't, and probably another 1,400,000,000 (China), not to mention the massive populations of underdeveloped countries who just don't care, so enjoy your bugburgers and reduced quality of life in futility.  The people pushing this upon you won't be.

And as a side note, this is in the cricket flour they are starting to sneak into your food so you can get protein from something other than meat:

Chitosan acts by forming gels in the intestinal tract which entrap lipids and other nutrients, including fat soluble vitamins and minerals, thus interfering with their absorption. Dietary chitosan may influence calcium metabolism by accelerating its urinary excretion. The reported undesirable effects are a marked decrease in plasma vitamin E level, reduction in bone mineral content and growth retardation.

And so this post will be slightly on topic, e-bikes will keep you from breathing so hard, thereby reducing your personal CO2 emissions.  But it's going to take a long while before any of those savings are realized, considering that they are not made in a country with strict environmental regulations.  Then again, probably nothing you own is, so do you really care?

[Dawgz Rule]

Thank you Randy.  I hadn't had time to jump in here, but you are absolutely right about academia.  This is coming from somebody whose organizations sole business is managing research grants for a university system.  There are plenty of grant incentives around to promote man-made climate change.   Climate change today is no different then the hysteria about the next ice age was coming back in the 70's.  The reality is that the planet naturally goes through periods of heating and cooling.  It's pretty well documented.

That isn't to say that we shouldn't be good stewards of the gift that we all live upon.  However, we also need to fully understand the upstream and downstream impacts of these decisions.  For example, it doesn't do us much good to move to solar and wind if it requires more coal plants (in China) to deliver the very same.   It doesn't do much good to drive an EV given the significant environmental impact to produce and dispose of the batteries, let alone the need for more coal to power grid to support them.  Last, it doesn't make good sense to reduce oil and gas production in the US, only to purchase it overseas where there are fewer environmental controls in the production process.   

Also, companies take advantage of going green purely for profit.  From a auto manufacturing perspective, EV's equals a steady flow of income.   The average life of an EV battery is well below the average life of a gas engine.  Additionally, the cost of a replacement battery system is so prohibitively expensive that most people will opt to purchase a new vehicle.   At that point you are not only dealing with battery waste, but a whole automobile of waste.

A balanced approach is always the best approach. 

[danny_galaga]

I once heard one of these geologists say that volcanoes put out way more CO2 than humans. This is nonsense. The average listener of that station would be thinking "well he's a geologist, he should know'. You know who knows? A VULCANologist.

Well, first of all, the amount of CO2 expelled by a volcano should be based on empirical data, so it wouldn't matter if it was regurgitated by a geologist or your babysitter.  The numbers should still be the same. 

Yes if the gelogist quoted the same figures that a VULCANologist would quote, then yes it wouldn't matter if he said it, or Jordan Peterson or my barber. But your mentality is blocking you from comprehending what I said. The geologist was touted as an expert, and then he said something about volcanoes which is completely wrong. But the job is done, most people listening would be left with a vague impression of yet another reason all the climate scientists are wrong. Deny, disrupt, divide.

I once worked with a guy, and i kid you not, he didn't believe men had been to the moon. He would quote all these 'alternative facts' to prove his claim. Like I said before just HAVING an alternative doesn't give it the same weight. An alternative to evolution and the age of the world is that God created everything in six days about 6000 years ago. Most people would agree that 'fact' really doesn't have the same weight as that which science now contends.

Oh, that guy? He also believed his stock standard Suzuki Swift could do a 1/4 mile in under 10 seconds. He was also, by any other measures smarter than me. But you couldn't tell him he was wrong.

Howard is right, you can't change people's minds in these cases, but you just hope they aren't in positions of power.

Anyway, enough from me. Apologies to the OP

[danny_galaga]

I'm a postman, and funnily enough I just delivered a parcel to this shop 😃

[Zebidee]

Nice looking scooters!

Phone number 07 means you must be in Queensland. Hope you are enjoying a balmy winter

[Zebidee]

I described this thread's discussion to my teenage/young adult daughters. They asked me to relay a message to all of us. Here is is:

"OK BOOMER"

[pbj]

This is coming from somebody whose organizations sole business is managing research grants for a university system.

So you’re a programmer for Cayuse or a Cayuse knock off?  And this gives you expertise on peer reviewed research funding?  Cmon, bro.