3.6v Tadiran Lithium Inorganic AA Battery

[spisi]

So, I purchased a Cinematronics World Series "The Season" arcade. My first "real" arcade. I have a couple of MAME machines. Anyway, the whole reason why I loved this game back in the day was that it saved your stats. Well, this machine is not doing that  I checked the service menu and everything is good on that end. So, I'm thinking that this battery is the culprit. Am I on the right track?

[PL1]

Good news:  It looks like the battery hasn't leaked all over the PCB, so you've got that going for you.   

So, I'm thinking that this battery is the culprit. Am I on the right track?

You might be, but it's impossible to say from the pic.

Ask your multimeter.   

If the multimeter shows a reasonable voltage on the battery, the next thing I'd check are those ten empty IC sockets.
- What does the schematic and/or parts breakdown show for those ICs? (U9, U23, U25, U26, etc.)
- Are memory chips supposed to be in any of those positions?


Scott

[spisi]

I guess I should have checked the battery before ordering a new one on Amazon LOL, only $13 might as well change it anyway. Good point about those empty slots....I'll look into that!

[PL1]

Have you run the "DIAGNOSTICS" menu "PROCESSOR MEMORY TEST" on page 21 of this manual PDF?

One other thing to look at is the "ERASE ALL PLAYER STATISTICS" menu on page 31.
- There's a limit of 300 player stat slots so you might need to clear them.   

https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/W/World%20Series%20%20The%20Season%20%20Cinematronics%201985.pdf


Scott

[spisi]

Yes, I did check that out already. Went through the whole service menu, everything is good on that end. Also, the manual shows that there is nothing to be installed on U9, U23, U25 & U26....but...manual doesn't show anything for U22, U24 & U27 

[spisi]

Actually, on page 12 it shows something for U26 & U27. But the way they are positioned on the board, the layout, is different then my board...What do the numbers refer to? U26 (10-01) and U27 (11-01)

[spisi]

Also, doesn't show the battery 

[PL1]

on page 12 it shows something for U26 & U27. But the way they are positioned on the board, the layout, is different then my board...What do the numbers refer to? U26 (10-01) and U27 (11-01)

Part designators on schematics and PCBs use letter prefixes to identify the type of part and a numerical suffix to identify which one of that type of part it is.
- R2 = resistor #2
- C5 = capacitor #5
- D4 = diode #4
- U26 = integrated circuit #26

Not sure what the "10-01" and "11-01" ICs do.
- Might be custom chips.  Might be re-labeled standard chips.   
- The manual I linked to earlier doesn't have the schematic for the Cinemat Main Logic Board P/N 81-14040-01. (found the P/N on page 33)
- There appears to be a missing schematic page between 43 and 44, but one page isn't enough for the Cinemat Main Logic Board.
- Did your cab come with any manuals?

The different positions for U26 and U27 on your main board sounds like a different version PCB.
- Is your main board marked with a P/N and revision number or letter?

Here's a manual for the Cinemat System, Rev C. that might be useful.
https://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Misc/Cinemat%20System%20Rev.%20C.pdf


Scott

[PL1]

Also, doesn't show the battery 

Battery schematic is on page 44, lower right corner.
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/W/World%20Series%20%20The%20Season%20%20Cinematronics%201985.pdf

There should be 2 batteries, B1 and B2.
- B1 is the purple one in your pic.
- Is B2 hiding behind B1 or are both batteries part of a single assembly?




Scott

[spisi]

Did not come with a manual. I'll try to gather more info when I get home later today. I'm going to test the old battery also. That's the only battery that I see, unless it's somewhere else on a different board. I'm looking in the lower right corner of page 44, and I can't make heads or tails of what I'm looking at...

[spisi]

OK, I see the batteries now (page 45), but my board only has the one battery...

[spisi]

Here's a board on e-bay that's missing the battery/batteries (top right) I guess a full size AA is doing the work of two smaller ones?    This board seems to be missing the same chips...

[PL1]

my board only has the one battery

Not a problem.

The schematic shows that B1+ goes to pin 2 of the DS1221 and B2+ goes to pin 15.

Page 1 of the DS1221 datasheet here says "Provides for redundant batteries" and note 2 on page 5 says "Only one battery input is required."

If you want to maintain the memory while you replace old battery B1, you can solder the new battery in the B2 position before you remove the old battery.


Scott

[spisi]

Great! Thanks.

[spisi]

OK, tested it with a multimeter and got a whopping 0.00!  This type of battery tests the same as a regular AA battery I assume?  I tested a Duracell AA and got a reading of 2.05. Here's another pic of the board.  So, I guess I could leave the old battery in place and solder a new second battery in the B2 area and see what happens.

[pbj]

Yes, dude, your 37 year old battery is dead.  Be thankful, very thankful, they used a type that didn't leak all over your boards.

Cut that thing off and solder on a new one.

 

[PL1]

OK, tested it with a multimeter and got a whopping 0.00!

Yeah, that'll cause memory loss.   

This type of battery tests the same as a regular AA battery I assume?  I tested a Duracell AA and got a reading of 2.05.

A Lithium-ion AA battery is not the same as a regular alkaline AA battery -- same physical size, different voltage, different storage capacity. (mA hours)
- An alkaline AA produces a nominal 1.5v.
- A Li-ion AA produces a nominal 3.6-3.7v.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery#Comparison

So, I guess I could leave the old battery in place and solder a new second battery in the B2 area and see what happens.

Heed PBJ's wisdom.

Nothing good can come from a "keep the dead old battery in parallel with a good new battery" approach.
1. Out with the dead old battery.
2. In with the good new battery.
3. Clear the stats to be sure that the memory doesn't have any random garbage.
4. Play some and see if it's saving your stats.   


Scott

[spisi]

Yes, dude, your 37 year old battery is dead.  Be thankful, very thankful, they used a type that didn't leak all over your boards.

Cut that thing off and solder on a new one.

 

 

[spisi]

OK, tested it with a multimeter and got a whopping 0.00!

Yeah, that'll cause memory loss.   

This type of battery tests the same as a regular AA battery I assume?  I tested a Duracell AA and got a reading of 2.05.

A Lithium-ion AA battery is not the same as a regular alkaline AA battery -- same physical size, different voltage, different storage capacity. (mA hours)
- An alkaline AA produces a nominal 1.5v.
- A Li-ion AA produces a nominal 3.6-3.7v.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery#Comparison

So, I guess I could leave the old battery in place and solder a new second battery in the B2 area and see what happens.

Heed PBJ's wisdom.

Nothing good can come from a "keep the dead old battery in parallel with a good new battery" approach.
1. Out with the dead old battery.
2. In with the good new battery.
3. Clear the stats to be sure that the memory doesn't have any random garbage.
4. Play some and see if it's saving your stats.   


Scott

OK OK, sounds like a plan!  I'll keep you guys posted.  I'm going to definitely have to remove the board.  I don't want to break anything (fingers crossed)

[spisi]

So I was looking on ebay (gathering info on other similar boards) and saw this...Looks like another battery underneath the top board... Does it say -20% on it???

[PL1]

Looks like another battery underneath the top board...

That's an axial electrolytic capacitor.
- Just guessing here, but it's probably a smoothing capacitor for the circuit containing U122 and U123.

The "20%" markings confirm it isn't a battery.

Axial electrolytic capacitor.


Radial electrolytic capacitor.



Scott

[spisi]

Whew! OK, I start removing the board in a few hours...wish me luck!

[spisi]

OK, didn't get very far.  I'm not sure how to remove the ribbon cable that is connecting the two boards. Do I just pull on it?

[PL1]

OK, didn't get very far.  I'm not sure how to remove the ribbon cable that is connecting the two boards. Do I just pull on it?

I can't tell from the photo if there are latches holding the ribbon cable IDC (Insulation Displacing Connector) on the PCB.   



Avoid separating the IDC connector where the ribbon cable passes through or at the strain relief.




Scott

[spisi]

Thanks Scott, well, I cut the old one out and crimped the new one in. I know that's not the right way.... I'm getting 4.60 on the multimeter now. Still not saving stats though. I think I need to clear out all of the stats, I'm trying to get to the service menu (I had trouble the first time, took like 10 attempts). I'm 50 attempts in and I can't get in. When I was in the first time I set it up fo free play. The routine you need to do to get in to the menu is: While in attract mode, 1- Hold down player one button. 2 - Press and release the service button. 3 - Release player one button.  But now as soon as I touch the one player button it exits attrct mode (I'm guessing because it's in free play mode  ).... Is there a work around this situation? Is there any other way of getting into the service menu? Also, is the service button supposed to add credits? Thanks.

[spisi]

Another 50 attempts...trying all sorts of different combinations....nothing. I keep pulling the plug and plugging back in, I'm afraid I'm going to mess up the power supply or something   

[spisi]

I did notice that the two player coin (orange wire) was disconnected and only the blue wire was connected to both one and two player coin slots. But this should not cause the problem...if I hear that "thank you!" one more time - 

[spisi]

Any ideas on any other ways to access a service menu?

[PL1]

The routine you need to do to get in to the menu is: While in attract mode, 1- Hold down player one button. 2 - Press and release the service button. 3 - Release player one button.

Any ideas on any other ways to access a service menu?

I don't see anything else in the manuals mentioned in this thread.

(I had trouble the first time, took like 10 attempts).

This might be a sign that you have poor/intermittent contact on the P1 Start and/or Service button switches.
- This is where having an analog multimeter can be helpful because the sampling and smoothing on a digital multimeter can sometimes mask this type of issue, but a twitching needle won't.   


Scott

[spisi]

So, replace the buttons and try again I guess. One more question and I'll leave you alone LOL. What is attract mode exactly? Is it just when there are no credits and the game is going through various screens. Or is there a certain screen? Thanks yet again.

[PL1]

So, replace the buttons and try again I guess.

Power off the system and do a resistance check on the button switches.

It's not likely that they are bad, but it is posssible.

What is attract mode exactly? Is it just when there are no credits and the game is going through various screens. Or is there a certain screen?

"Attract mode" is the time between gameplay sessions when the game shows a loop with the title screen, a short scoring/gameplay tutorial, and/or a sample of gameplay to attract the attention of passers-by and convince them to drop in some quarters and play.

The manual didn't specify a specific screen or sequence during attract mode so the menu button press sequence should work if you start it when a game is not in progress.

The menu button press sequence won't work if you release P1 Start (or the connection breaks) in the middle instead of at the end of the sequence.

If you want to eliminate the switches and wiring harness as possible problems, you can insert straight pins into the P4 connector housing so they make contact with the sides of the wire pins then perform the button presses by shorting the straight pins with alligator clip jumpers.
- P4 Pin 2 is ground. (black or green wire)
- P4 Pin 5 is Service. (yellow wire)
- P4 Pin 6 is P1 Start (white wire)
- Connect one end of two alligator clip jumpers to the ground straight pin. (black or green wire)
- During attract mode, connect the other end of the first jumper to the pin 6 P1 Start straight pin. (white wire)
- Connect the other end of the second jumper to the pin 5 Service straight pin. (yellow wire)
- Disconnect the second jumper from the pin 5 Service straight pin. (yellow wire)
- Disconnect the first jumper from the pin 6 P1 Start straight pin. (white wire)
- You should be in the game menu now.





If that doesn't work, you might want to ask over at KLOV.


Scott

[spisi]

OK, I like that idea!  Thanks Scott!

[spisi]

Boom!!! That did the trick!!! I'm a super happy guy right now!!! Thanks everyone, especially Scott! You're a freakin' genius!!! 

[PL1]

Glad to assist.   

Did you figure out if the intermittent was in the wiring, P1 Start button or Service button?

Is the PCB saving stats now?


Scott

[spisi]

Something must be wrong with the wiring or buttons. I didn't test that, I just did the straight pin thing and it worked no problem! Yessssss it's FINALLY saving stats! 

[spisi]

So, I took apart the CP to apply a new graphic, put it back together and now the service menu works no problem...

[spisi]

Old graphic

[spisi]

New graphic. Not my best work (didn't want to mess with the joysticks). But I think it looks a little nicer. I didn't want to remove the original graphic. Just in case, I don't know why...

[pbj]

Grr….

[spisi]

Ughhhh...I saw that coming a mile away...

[pbj]

Dude, it looks freaking terrible.  Order another one and do it right. 

[yotsuya]

First off, congrats on fixing the battery. Nothing feels better than fixing a PCB issue.

But yeah, for all your hard work, that CP deserves better. At least use an Exacto knife and cut off the CP covering those bolts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[spisi]

How's this? I cut around with an xacto knife. I made the graphic myself, I intentionally left out the "stat key" and covered over the holes.

[PL1]

How's this?

Much better.   


Scott

[spisi]

Thanks. Do you think I should remove the old graphic underneath?

[PL1]

Thanks. Do you think I should remove the old graphic underneath?

That is the best practice if the old CPO is no longer in acceptable condition, especially when part of the old CPO is torn off like the red/white stripes on yours.
- The stat key slot edges will be similarly visible so you might want to keep them accessible and labeled like the original.



When you try to cover that torn part, the unevenness clearly comes through.



It's your machine so it's your call, but if you want to do it right:
- Label the wires with tape flags for easier re-assembly.

- Remove all of the controls from the panel.
- Remove the control panel from the cabinet.
- Remove the old CPO. (a heat gun and scraper are your friends)
- Prep and clean the control panel (re-prime/paint if needed) so the surface is smooth and the CPO will adhere properly.
- Apply and trim new CPO.
- Clean, polish, and paint carriage bolts as desired.
- Re-attach the control panel to the cabinet.
- Re-install the controls and remove the tape flags.
- Enjoy your minty-fresh control panel.   


Scott