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Are some games too fast or am I too old?
Zebidee:
--- Quote from: leapinlew on October 06, 2022, 06:21:10 pm ---I've seen people struggle with Ms. Pacman and an 8 way joystick, but it sure didn't seem to impact their enjoyment. They just didn't care and I guess they assumed it was their lack of skill.
--- End quote ---
This may be why I never got into Pacman/Ms Pacman as a kid - boards shoved into generic cabs with an 8-way joystick, meh.
negative1:
--- Quote from: bobbyb13 on October 06, 2022, 03:25:11 am ---The more I play various games (in MAME , fpga, and also original boardsets) and the more I build, and the more I get obsessed with authentic controls, the more I discover that a HUGE part of success playing any of these beloved games is actually the latter-
Truly authentic controls for each individual game make such a remarkable difference in gameplay that it is astounding.
One can get used to anything given time of course, but I have found the shortest path to playing anything well and enjoyably is by being able to use exactly what the game was designed for initially.
There is no substitute for real leaf buttons if that was oem.
Full stop.
If it had Wico 8 way leaf sticks in the original then a microswitch unit simply will not satisfy.
The ONLY exception I have seen to this is with spinners and trackballs, where the work of fine gents like KenToad have made it such that you can tune a new replacement part to very reasonably (if not exactly in some instances) mimic an original part- in performance at least.
Hard to mimic the whir and physical air resistance of an old Tempest spinner or sheer mass of a Missile Command ball with anything but the original or a 1:1 reproduction.
--- End quote ---
nope.
for me, its the opposite.
back in the day, all the machines were pounded on, broken joysticks, not maintained, and controls barely worked unless it was a brand new machine.
even nowadays in barcades, arcades etc. unless THEY really go out of their way to maintain controls, it makes no difference to casual players.
---
i use 8 way joystick for pac-man - can still hit the killscreen
i use lesser brands for galaga, joust etc - still get to a million and beyond.
i use 3rd party trackballs and spinners - still able to get to a million in centipede, and 200-300k on tempest.
in other words, original controls are not the best, and in most cases make no difference all to the vast majority of players
unless you are an expert.
--- Quote from: leapinlew on October 06, 2022, 06:21:10 pm ---Defender - must have leaf buttons. Qbert has to have angled joystick. It's subjective to the game.
I've seen people struggle with Ms. Pacman and an 8 way joystick, but it sure didn't seem to impact their enjoyment. They just didn't care and I guess they assumed it was their lack of skill.
But for the most part, I'm with you Bobby.
--- End quote ---
i can hit 200k on defender with a 4 way joystick, don't need the original.
qbert, just use an 8 way - still hit a million
you don't need the originals to play well, just need enough knowlege of the
levels and enemy behaviour.
--
even marble madness 2 which i'm playing now uses a joystick instead of a trackball,
and its still very playable. (although i haven't finished it yet, although many others have).
just depends on how much time you spend on it.
later
-1
leapinlew:
--- Quote from: negative1 on October 07, 2022, 11:16:19 am ---i can hit 200k on defender with a 4 way joystick, don't need the original.
qbert, just use an 8 way - still hit a million
you don't need the originals to play well, just need enough knowlege of the
levels and enemy behaviour.
--
even marble madness 2 which i'm playing now uses a joystick instead of a trackball,
and its still very playable. (although i haven't finished it yet, although many others have).
--- End quote ---
For Defender, I was specifically referring to leafswitch buttons, not joystick. And Marble Madness 2 was designed for a joystick, so....
Understood that people can adapt. I'm sure people are scoring high scores playing paperboy with a joystick on the Arcade1up's, but I would hope we would all agree that the original controls enhance the game. For some people "enhancing the game" means high scores, but a high score isn't the only metric to be used. The original sentiment of the thread is that for many folks, the original controls are best because the game was designed with them in mind. I don't think that you can argue against that. Basically, using different controls will most likely equal different results.
My example specifically stated that it was easier to use alternate controls, therefore, getting a high score isn't a good way to determine if it helps or hurts the game.
Zebidee:
--- Quote from: negative1 on October 07, 2022, 11:16:19 am ---i use 8 way joystick for pac-man - can still hit the killscreen
--- Quote from: leapinlew on October 06, 2022, 06:21:10 pm ---Defender - must have leaf buttons. Qbert has to have angled joystick. It's subjective to the game.
I've seen people struggle with Ms. Pacman and an 8 way joystick, but it sure didn't seem to impact their enjoyment. They just didn't care and I guess they assumed it was their lack of skill.
--- End quote ---
i can hit 200k on defender with a 4 way joystick, don't need the original.
qbert, just use an 8 way - still hit a million
you don't need the originals to play well, just need enough knowlege of the
levels and enemy behaviour.
--- End quote ---
I used to play Defender with a keyboard and was deadly at it :lol (PC version of course, in olden days before mame).
More important IMO for all these games is dedicated single-player controls. No two or four-player panels, like most of our first mame cabs. You want the joystick (whatever it is) right in front of you, and you right in front of the screen. Especially for the 4-way games on an 8-way. Otherwise it is too easy to mix up right with right-up, and so forth.
A while back I restored/rebuilt a 20" vertical cab with a single 8-way joystick and a couple of buttons. Threw in a 60-in-one PCB. Loved it for all those classic games, was the best for Galaga. Emulation wasn't perfect but the controls were. Still, Ladybug was challenging, is a fun 4-way game and you have to get the turns perfectly like in Pacman. I still suck at both.
I'm going to build another little 20" vertical cab soon, and it will have just one joystick. Watch this space... :D
negative1:
--- Quote from: leapinlew on October 07, 2022, 03:16:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: negative1 on October 07, 2022, 11:16:19 am ---i can hit 200k on defender with a 4 way joystick, don't need the original.
qbert, just use an 8 way - still hit a million
you don't need the originals to play well, just need enough knowlege of the
levels and enemy behaviour.
--
even marble madness 2 which i'm playing now uses a joystick instead of a trackball,
and its still very playable. (although i haven't finished it yet, although many others have).
--- End quote ---
For Defender, I was specifically referring to leafswitch buttons, not joystick. And Marble Madness 2 was designed for a joystick, so....
Understood that people can adapt. I'm sure people are scoring high scores playing paperboy with a joystick on the Arcade1up's, but I would hope we would all agree that the original controls enhance the game. For some people "enhancing the game" means high scores, but a high score isn't the only metric to be used. The original sentiment of the thread is that for many folks, the original controls are best because the game was designed with them in mind. I don't think that you can argue against that. Basically, using different controls will most likely equal different results.
My example specifically stated that it was easier to use alternate controls, therefore, getting a high score isn't a good way to determine if it helps or hurts the game.
--- End quote ---
i don't really care what type of buttons are being used, still doesn't make a difference for me.
as far as high scores go, what else is there.
if you really don't care, then there's no point in playing, might as well randomly hit buttons,
and throw your quarter down the drain.
also, if you don't care about scores, the controls don't matter either.
later
-1