Are two pinball buttons on either side of the cabinet needed?

[ATWindsor]

I see some cabinets with buttons on the side for pinball use have two buttons on each side, but I am not familiar with when this is eventually used, when is this useful?

[Malenko]

If you play pinball. 1 button is for the flipper the other is the "nudge".  Its more "frankencab" theory; to get everything you can playing on a cab no matter how terribly.

[meyer980]

I thought they were some real pinball machines with this setup too aren't there? Like to activate magna-ball or control a second set of flippers?

Defender seems to be an example.

[thomas_surles]

I see some cabinets with buttons on the side for pinball use have two buttons on each side, but I am not familiar with when this is eventually used, when is this useful?

I use it for nudge. I can't physically tilt my machine. It's nice to have for ball saves when it tries to go down the sides

[vertexguy]

Depends on how realistic you want things.  There are tables in real life with 2 buttons on each side.  The nudge use in emulation is a good idea too.  I'm no pinball wizard but nudge plays a pretty important role for some tables.  There were some older gottlieb tables where you lose your ball instantly without nudge by design.

Black Knight is one example table with 4.

[pbj]

Every dollar spent on a virtual pinball machine is a dollar flushed down the toilet.

[PL1]

I thought they were some real pinball machines with this setup too aren't there? Like to activate magna-ball or control a second set of flippers?

Yes, there are some tables with separately-controlled upper flippers (Family Guy has Stewie's mini-playfield, Nip-It has the "ballygator", etc.) and a few with MagnaSave. (Black Knight, etc.)

The good news is that no table uses upper flippers and MagnaSave so you can tie both encoder inputs to a single button using the "backwards wiring" shown in the first diagram below or the blocking diodes shown in the second.

Depending on the tables you want to play, you may want Ball Launch, R/L/U Nudge, and (if you really want to go overboard) R/L Upper Flipper/MagnaSave.
- AFAIK the diagram below covers all possible pinball table buttons.
- Instead of standard microswitch buttons for the flippers/nudge, you might want GGG Class-X with True-Leaf Pro or Ultimarc Goldleaf buttons.



If you're using 2-terminal buttons (Goldleaf, leaf switches, etc.) you can use diodes like this to isolate the MAME switches from each other while allowing Upper Flipper/MagnaSave to apply ground to both inputs.




Scott

[pbj]

Funny you keep mentioning Black Knight.  Did you know you can control which of the flippers activates by the depth you push the button?  They could have easily made them run off micro switches, and instead used stacked leaf.  In other words, it was by design.  Many of the old games with multiple flippers are like this and learning to utilize it will help your game.  Particularly on the machines with in line flippers.


 

[ATWindsor]

If you play pinball. 1 button is for the flipper the other is the "nudge".  Its more "frankencab" theory; to get everything you can playing on a cab no matter how terribly.

I guess a frankencab is what i am going for, i can only fit a single cab, so I will try to have several functions

[ATWindsor]

Thanks for the replies, it seems like i will do pretty fine with just one button on either side.

[PL1]

Funny you keep mentioning Black Knight.  Did you know you can control which of the flippers activates by the depth you push the button?  They could have easily made them run off micro switches, and instead used stacked leaf.  In other words, it was by design.  Many of the old games with multiple flippers are like this and learning to utilize it will help your game.  Particularly on the machines with in line flippers.


 

Good things to know if I ever get to play the real deal.   

The old VP9 and earlier Black Knight tables I've played have the upper and lower flippers on each side controlled by a single keystroke.

Not sure if anyone scripting newer VP recreations of the seven (?) tables with MagnaSave has separated the upper/lower flipper triggers.   
- I doubt they would do that because a table like that would only run on cabs/controllers with either stacked leaf switches or another button on each side.


Scott

[PL1]

it seems like i will do pretty fine with just one button on either side.

What about a ball launch button?
- You might be satisfied with not having nudge, but you've got to start the ball rolling somehow.

Last time I checked, Visual Pinball tables are not as flexible as MAME when it comes to changing inputs so you might want to use the VP default keystrokes (LShift, RShift, and ENTER) for your flipper and ball launch buttons.


Scott

[pbj]

Just a few more whacks on the dead horse.  I was going around shoving LEDs into my other machines and played a few games on Alien Poker.

Pushing the right flipper button in from 1% to about 60% depth.



And then pushing it further.



On this particular game, it’s single ball, and there are guide rails below the upper flipper.  This level of precision doesn’t really help you much.  On games with multiball, or no guide wire under the upper flipper, this kind of control is essential.

I paid… $275? for this machine.  Thereabouts.  It has a $350 replacement MPU in it.  It was a restoration project for me, but hell, it plays well and I never bothered.  Then the usual $100 or so in lights, rubbers, wax, etc.  I did pop out all the inserts, flatten them with a heat gun, and reglue them.  All in, for less than $1,000 I’ve got a talking machine that blinks lights at you and is really, really hard.  Maybe the days of “cheap projects” are long gone but I strongly urge you to look around.  You’re never going to simulate the experience staring at two flat screen TVs.  If you’re committed to virtual pinball, the things being done in VR are pretty cool.

 

[bobbyb13]

The depth of play and flipper control on some machines is nothing short of astounding really.

Man, do I want a real pinball machine.

[Malenko]

Pushing the right flipper button in from 1% to about 60% depth.

Lots of 90s Williams titles have a similar feature, its a staple of more advanced game play. Cradling the ball during multiball with the bottom flipper but still being able to flip the top flipper in the Getaway is all but required on that game.