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Author Topic: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!  (Read 6736 times)

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PL1

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2022, 03:56:02 am »

Malenko

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2022, 10:15:45 am »
:lol

It's almost like he's a builder building things on a forum dedicated to building things.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2022, 01:51:21 pm »
:lol

It's almost like he's a builder building things on a forum dedicated to building things.

 :laugh2:

I DO wonder how many attempts it will take, but I have a few vises and a drawer full of hammers and drill bits so something is going to happen eventually!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2022, 06:00:52 pm »
I DO wonder how many attempts it will take, but I have a few vises and a drawer full of hammers and drill bits so something is going to happen eventually!
I'm not questioning your ability to make brackets, just wondering why you want to invest the time and effort to fabricate them from scratch for this build.   :dunno

I could understand if you were trying to fit it into a bartop where you didn't have enough space for the normal knocker assembly, but that's obviously not the case here.

By the time you order the coil and plunger (i.e. the parts you're least likely to fabricate) you're not too far from the cost of buying a complete knocker assembly.

If you still want to fab your own brackets, The Pinball Wizard has good prices on both the coil and plunger.


Scott

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2022, 07:53:51 pm »
Appreciate the link to the Salt Lake outfit Scott.

Hadn't found an entire 12v assembly in stock where I have looked and wanted buy other stuff while I was at it was all.

I may just wait until I find an entire assembly somewhere.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2022, 09:05:22 pm »
Hadn't found an entire 12v assembly in stock where I have looked and wanted buy other stuff while I was at it was all.

I may just wait until I find an entire assembly somewhere.
Looks like you'll either be waiting for Arcadeshop to restock the 12v knocker assembly or they currently have the 30v knocker assembly and the 12v coil in-stock.


Scott

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2022, 08:35:50 am »
I’ve never heard of measuring a pinball coil in volts, only in resistance.  They’re just enameled copper wire.

If you’re truly worried about voltage issues, use the board to run a relay and then a separate power supply.




https://flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2022, 08:44:07 am »
Looks like the Spooky Pinball knockers use 23-800 coils, which are close enough to Gottlieb 5194.  Don’t make your own assembly, it’s never going to work right.





https://www.ebay.com/itm/165516540184?hash=item26898df918:g:2MwAAOSwLqdimpwv



 :cheers:

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2022, 02:39:50 pm »
Thanks pbj.
Of course I've already ordered other stuff so I will be trying not to fail with that batch first at this point.
Only difficult part I would think is getting the right distance from coil body to strike plate.

If/when I can't get the stuff on its way to behave then Spooky it is.

Now I want to look up what an Alice Cooper pin is like.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

bobbyb13

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2022, 02:16:29 am »
Because I was too fast at ordering parts to listen to pbj wisdom this round, here we go.
If this fails then Spooky coil it is.
This would have been really easy if arcadeshop had the 12v assembly they list in stock, but instead we get me actually trying to byoac.

And...
Parts-



Opting for the 12v style here because the power supply already puts that out so it's easy.
I wasn't sure which coil holding bracket would work so I bought two that looked ok but were slightly different, the coil and plunger too of course, and a sleeve- because I didn't know that the coil came with one already.

I hadn't noticed before Scott had pointed it out, but the coil already has a diode where it needs to be so that question was a moot point thankfully.

Issue with not being able to buy the whole thing was that I needed to make a bracket.
At least I knew what they were supposed to look like and could guess at dimensions so that I had a prayer of the thing working.

And so, bracket.

Had some 1" wide aluminum stock of various thickness lying around and I have a drawer full of hammers.



I knew it would be important to start with bends in the center of this thing and work my way out or trying to do this with a vice and hammer wouldn't work out.
Actually got the measurements close enough and with a little drilling of pilot holes for bracket screws we get...



I made the dimensions such that I could try all sorts of crap stuffed in there until I found some material that gave me the dull thud sound I think the guys who designed it really wanted (instead of the standard pinball "knock" that the production cabinet has.

As I was playing with the thing after I built it, it occurred to me that I wasn't sure how this thing really needed to be hung in the cabinet.

Oriented to have the plunger fall back on it's tail in the bracket?  (plunger pointing straight up?)

How do these things sit in a real cabinet?







« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 02:18:12 am by bobbyb13 »
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2022, 09:39:43 am »
As I was playing with the thing after I built it, it occurred to me that I wasn't sure how this thing really needed to be hung in the cabinet.

Oriented to have the plunger fall back on it's tail in the bracket?  (plunger pointing straight up?)

How do these things sit in a real cabinet?
Mount the bracket so the small gap is toward the top coil wires are toward the bottom of the cab and the wood block on your bracket is toward the top.
- Plunger fires up then gravity pulls the plunger down.




Scott
EDIT: Comparing your bracket to the original, you've got the larger gap on the top instead of the bottom so there's less room for the plunger to travel and reset.

When the coil is energized, the electromagnetic field pulls the metal part of the plunger to the center of the coil which pushes the nylon end out of the coil.

Can you turn the plunger 180 degrees and mount your bracket with the wood block down?  That way, the nylon end of the plunger will hit the metal bracket on the smaller gap side when the coil fires and the plunger will travel further.

 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 10:45:32 am by PL1 »

bobbyb13

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2022, 02:24:36 pm »
Ah, yes.
You are correct!
At least that fix doesn't require bending another bracket.

Still seems as if the plunger should be striking something other than the bracket given the noise I have always heard from them, but I will give this a go.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2022, 04:02:53 pm »
Still seems as if the plunger should be striking something other than the bracket given the noise I have always heard from them, but I will give this a go.
The impact of the plunger on the bracket transmits vibration to the coinbox (or cab side-panel if you don't have a coinbox) which acts as a resonant chamber.

When you knock on drywall to locate a stud, you'll get different results knocking between the studs vs. knocking on the stud -- same knuckle, same drywall, different location ==> different sound.

While you're testing, try it without a screw through the bottom of the bracket since securing both ends of the bracket might not transmit the vibration as effectively.   ;)


Scott

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2022, 04:47:57 pm »
Plunger should fall down on a piece of rubber from gravity after it fires.  just glue a cabinet bumper or something at the bottom of that thing.


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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2022, 07:18:19 pm »
In between chores I stole time to work on the knocker.

I decided it would be a good idea to wire it up to the power supply/iso trans bench unit I made and fire this thing to see the throw of the plunger so I could relocate the coil to the right spot, and facing the right direction.
Funny how many people post things to youtube that are only half right, yeah?

Still seems as if the plunger should be striking something other than the bracket given the noise I have always heard from them, but I will give this a go.
The impact of the plunger on the bracket transmits vibration to the coinbox (or cab side-panel if you don't have a coinbox) which acts as a resonant chamber.

When you knock on drywall to locate a stud, you'll get different results knocking between the studs vs. knocking on the stud -- same knuckle, same drywall, different location ==> different sound.

While you're testing, try it without a screw through the bottom of the bracket since securing both ends of the bracket might not transmit the vibration as effectively.   ;)


Scott

I had been thinking about this all along and what I saw for videos from people in regard to sound bugged me (although they were informative otherwise!)

Part of the sound that we are all used to hearing is the plastic part of the plunger hitting a pinball machine wood back box itself (not even a bracket.)
Sometimes there is a plate to prevent wear on the box.
That makes for a nice resonant chamber and gives a good amount of mass that the plunger is striking.

I have been designing this along the lines of an original Q*bert knocker but don't like the idea of the plunger just hitting the bracket- hence the block of ply to get rid of the tinny sound of hitting metal.

After a few tries I found what looked like a good spot for the coil, flipped it the way I wanted it and the plunger to face and then drilled fresh holes.



Plunger should fall down on a piece of rubber from gravity after it fires.  just glue a cabinet bumper or something at the bottom of that thing.


Absolutley correct of course.  I started with a double wrap of rubber electrical tape but it still wasn't enough to get rid of the rebound noise so it got a little bit of weatherstrip foam too.
That makes it pretty much silent.

I was satisfied with bench testing so figured it was time to put it in.
Of course I couldn't find the kind of fuse holder I wanted to use so had to settle for this in-line thing short term anyway.

Mounted bracket, put in slow blow 1 amp fuse, wired to terminal J on the jamma harness and 12v on the power supply and bingo.



Even mounted like this it makes a pretty satisfying 'thwack!' when it is supposed to.
I had entertained the idea of having it mounted to strike the underside of the monitor chassis shelf (which I might do) but if the sound continues to deepen as I finish the bezel and rear door (as I am sure it will) then it might just stay where it is.

Take that Coily.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2022, 09:53:42 pm »
Very nice.

I had entertained the idea of having it mounted to strike the underside of the monitor chassis shelf ...

If you had a cold solder joint on the monitor, in the right place, the knocker could make the screen go crazy for a moment as well - for extra freakout value!

Heh, maybe not :D
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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2022, 01:39:10 pm »
I thought the knocker went in the bottom of the cabinet?

Wasnt it supposed to be like Q*bert fell off the screen and landed in the bottom of the cab?
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Re: Q*bert- Because who was alive in 1982 and doesn't want one?!
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2022, 06:24:25 pm »
You are correct.
I was playing with where I could get at it to change things up to see about getting sound I was hoping for.

I've been buried with work, a honey-do list that keeps getting longer, and other hotter fires- so haven't had a chance to finish sorting this out.

Then  there is still the question of monitor bezel and artwork!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.