LG 16:18 format monitor appears to be available...?

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Hey all,

Haven't seen any posts about this, so I thought I'd put it out there. It appears that LG finally released their near-square format monitor.  Could be really interesting for edge-to-edge screen projects that want to display bezel artwork with less compromise to gameplay, or folks who want less compromise on screen real estate when switching from horizontal to vert games...

Anyway, link ahead. ($700 as of this post) https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-28mq780-b

 Yeah, it's expensive, but so is pretty much everything else in this hobby.  Pairing this with a reasonably sized marquee monitor could be really effin' sweet, though...

[bobbyb13]

Cool for a flat screen (even if just for size) but sadly I haven't played games on any lcd yet that was satisfying in terms of controls/display timing.
I could be doing something wrong in regard to screen setup of course but I still find it impossible to beat a crt for sheer joy.

[Laythe]

This is a lot cheaper than the Eizo 1920x1920 panel, as well as being higher res.  Interesting!

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

This is a lot cheaper than the Eizo 1920x1920 panel, as well as being higher res.  Interesting!

Yeah, I genuinely wish I could say that your "Mimic" came to mind as soon as I saw this monitor, but to be honest I haven't been around these parts for a long time -- you appear to have shown up on the scene not too long after I left! 

I'm still getting caught up, but already I see you seem to have made a wee name for yourself here!   It's good to see there's still some creative juice flowing amongst these old farts!



Maybe I'll actually have something to contribute this time...

[dchase]

It doesn't have VRR, right?

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

It doesn't have VRR, right?

Not as far as I can see from the linked specs. It has "Dynamic Action Sync" but I had to look that up to get an idea of what kind of jargon they were playing with. It's not VRR, according to this link: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?t=4933

Here's another link talking about it: https://itigic.com/lg-das-differences-with-amd-freesync-and-nvidia-g-sync/

Sounds interesting. Honestly, I haven't come across anything like this before, so you tell me if that is sufficient for you. My primary monitor is an LG CX, so most of the "fancy gaming" stuff "just works" with my 3070.

[dchase]

Seems like a 42" LG OLED mounted vertically is still a better option then. You really want VRR.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Seems like a 42" LG OLED mounted vertically is still a better option then. You really want VRR.

Ok... but why? I can see if you're doing modern games (@>60hz) in addition to legacy stuff with this, but does VRR do anything for you with regard to Mame or other emulators? 

This is an honest question (I haven't been active here in literal years.) Educate me! 

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Hmm... a little further looking into this and it turns out Mame does indeed now support VRR/gsync/freesync.  Looks like a handful of console emulators do too. Interesting.

That said, a 42" LG OLED currently runs $1400. So there's a little bit of there? As with all things, it depends on your particular sensitivity/budget/use case...

[dchase]

fyi this is a good reference on why you want VRR for cabs

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Nice, thanks for adding this info to the thread! 

[fwiler]

This looks interesting.  I would like to try one out.  Getting so tired of CRT's.

[bobbyb13]

This looks interesting.  I would like to try one out.  Getting so tired of CRT's.

Heresy!

[csnow]

Its ashame this isn't OLED.  If it were OLED, it would indeed be a CRT killer for arcade cabinets. 

[Mike A]

Its ashame this isn't OLED.  If it were OLED, it would indeed be a CRT killer for arcade cabinets. 

No.

[RandyT]

I'm honestly surprised that this nut hasn't been cracked already.

A 320x240 image on an arcade monitor is comprised of 76,800 individual pixels.

Multiplying this value by 3, to represent the RGB components of the CRT dot mask, comes out to a 230,400 pixel image of individual RGB subpixels.

This doesn't account for blank scanlines, so multiplying this value by 2 in order to skip lines brings us to 460,800 pixels required for a "sharp" representation (no glowing effects).

A 1080p display has 2,073,600 pixels available.  If my math is correct (it may not be) about 518,400 of those pixels are discarded due to the difference in aspect ratio.  This still leaves 1,555,200 pixels for the 4:3 representation, or 3.375x what is required.

A 4K display obviously does much better with 6,220,800 for the 4:3 representation, or roughly 13.5x the number required for the sharp dot mask representation, leaving room for effects.

I would think that all which would be necessary are good shaders, extremely low latency OLED and variable refresh rates for a near perfect CRT replacement.

Or has my math failed me?

*edit* these 4:3 pixel numbers are probably wrong on the low side....I'm working on it )
*edit 2*  Okay, I think it's right now.....even better numbers than before!
*edit 3*  The more I think about it, the more I believe that a shader with RGB Triad dot mask and glow effects is possible on a 4k display.  Sheesh, that's a bunch of edits

[csnow]

Its ashame this isn't OLED.  If it were OLED, it would indeed be a CRT killer for arcade cabinets. 

No.

Do you own an OLED?  Have your paired it with something like a retroTINK 5x-Pro?  OLED is so close to CRT now its not worth the headace.  If they come out with something close to 4:3 in OLED I will make you deal on all my Wells 25" CRT monitors.  I won't be looking back at all.

[Mike A]

I have 30 arcade cabinets. 0 LCD screens.

Your flat screen will never be as good as a real arcade CRT.

I guarantee that my CRTs will still be running long after your fancy new screen is in a landfill.

[pbj]

You're both pretty.

 

[RandyT]

I have 30 arcade cabinets. 0 LCD screens.

I only have 3, but I do have one LCD.  Only because I am too lazy to recap the monitor and had some nice high resolution 20" 4:3 panels laying around. It's also a secondary cabinet used mostly for testing purposes.  My main cabinet has a very nice 27" RGB CRT.

The "bang for buck" isn't there yet.  A nice CRT (even as rare as they are now) still costs WAY less than all the fancy hardware it would take to emulate one.  Couldn't imagine shelling out for 30 of them.

Your flat screen will never be as good as a real arcade CRT.

I think that with enough money, effort and time, it's very possible that it could look even better.  Imagine a display which could emulate the characteristics of a perfect CRT, rendering the original graphics as they were intended to be seen, at exactly the proper refresh rate and aspect ratio but without interference and artifacts...unless you wanted them...while being much lighter and consuming less power.

I guarantee that my CRTs will still be running long after your fancy new screen is in a landfill.

No argument there.  However "running" and "looking good" are different things.  There are plenty of CRTs which still work but the screen burn makes them not so desirable to use.  Not that current OLED is much better in that department.

[Mike A]

while being much lighter

Everyone always says that. I don't get it.

I don't hold my CRT up while I am playing games.

My couch is heavy. I don't constantly complain that I need a lighter couch.

There are plenty of CRTs which still work but the screen burn makes them not so desirable to use

That is when it is time for a tube swap. Although none of my tubes have much burn. So I won't need new tubes for at least 40 more years.


If people want to use modern monitors, more power to them. I just don't buy lame excuses people post most of the time.

Only because I am too lazy to recap the monitor and had some nice high resolution 20" 4:3 panels laying around

Nice. Honest post. I can appreciate that.

[Mike A]

Only because I am too lazy to recap the monitor

If you were local I would do it for you. It would only cost you a couple of beers.

[csnow]

If people want to use modern monitors, more power to them. I just don't buy lame excuses people post most of the time.

Dont get me wrong, I am a CRT fan and a purist at heart.  I have 7 machines and they are all CRTs with the exception of one because it came native flat panel (Golden Tee / Silverstrike pedestal).  I also have a 32" Toshiba round tube CRT for all of my retro consoles.  All of my consoles have been RGB modded so they can utilize component to the CRT.  As good as that picture looks on the CRT, I rarely use it now because the OLED is so close and the RetroTINK converts the signal with almost zero latency while providing many scan line options to choose from.  The end result is a quite convincing near CRT image that is 77" which is great to play while lounging around vs the 32" TV that is in a spare room.

For arcades I see a huge use with pedestal builds with the 48" LG.  Very near CRT image quality on a large screen with VRR support.  As far as weight, its a big deal to some.  My game room/theater is on the second floor.  Having to pull the CRT when moving them is a pain.  I have moved them upstairs without pulling the CRT but the risk of drop because your buddy can't manage the cabinet well increases a lot.  It much more manageable with the CRT removed.  Granted its not like I do it often, but it would be nice to just move it as is. 

I am not looking to replace CRT but I can appreciate and embrace technology that has improved to the point its close to CRT and will eventually surpass it.  Now that LG is providing panels to Sony and Samsung, the tech will move quickly because they are standardizing on the technology.  I am looking forward to seeing what comes next.

[Zebidee]

Size isn't everything. I reckon CRTs best max size is about 29".

Larger size at low res just means more for your eyes to scan. High-res is another thing.

I'm really enjoying the 19-21" sizes, and I even have a couple of cute 14" CRTs.

Use an upright trolley and a strap to move larger CRTs and cabs. Save your back. With a trolley, I can do this mostly by myself for cabs up to ~250lbs, no friend required (tell them to stand away).

Build wheels into the base if you want to facilitate shorter moves.

Most of your latency would likely be in the display, rather than the transcoder.

Modern low-latency gaming displays will be a small few milliseconds (ms). I tested GreenAntz transcoders and they add less than 100ns (<0.1ms), essentially negligible.

I like the idea of using more modern, larger, high-res screens to emulate CRTs while allowing an active marquee or bezel in the blacked out part/s (because we keep the game to correct aspect ratio, of course).