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Author Topic: Bonafide Classics  (Read 1609 times)

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EssexMame

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Bonafide Classics
« on: June 14, 2022, 04:19:36 am »
What games, on any system and any time period, are MUST HAVE bonafide  classics? I know we all like different games, some obscure games, but what do we all accept are classics even if we don't particularly play them ourselves? i.e. the games we must try at least? I haven't ever taken to Sonic for example but fully accept it's a classic. Super Mario Bros. at the time too, but I've since realised it's appeal (it was after my time really, before adults were "allowed" to play games!).

I don't want this to be a list of games you don't like though. I think I've got a list of 175 in total, where I've avoided more than 1 in a series unless absolutely necessary (picking the best one to try/play in a series e.g. Super Mario Bros. (many would say I think but I went with the original here) or Gran Turismo 3 though I think I'll have to relent on Zelda (Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time) as they are hard to separate and differ enough to justify it. So, if you like a series of games try and highlight the absolute best of them.

Some will be "my" classics for sure (the Acorn Electron features more heavily than history would dictate) but generally I feel I'm getting to a definitive arcade, computer and console all-time list.

I'll post mine later here, but I don't want to influence the opinions of others too much (aside from the examples above) as I want to discover some I may have missed!

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 07:16:13 am »
I'd start with the "all killer no filler" game lists.  As for your series limit, is that per console or per series? It also sort of sounds like you want a "hidden gems" list not a classics list.

Super Mario World > Mario 64 > Super Mario 3  , but that's SNES, N64, and NES.
For all the robble rousers its perfectly ok that you like Mario 64 more, you are allowed to.

S&K+Sonic3 is the best Sonic game; and the Sonic 3 Complete hack is the perfect package of it.

As for a hidden gem, on the NES there was a game called "Conquest of the Crystal Palace" ; it's amazing.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2022, 03:35:30 pm »
Space is cheap, put every game on there and let your guests find what they want. It’s worked for me for 12 years!


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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2022, 09:58:26 pm »
It's there a 'all killer no filler' style lost that had EVERYTHING but mahjong and fruit machine games in it. It's great to find hidden classics, but no one I've EVER met wants to play mahjong our fruit machine games. That would probably HALF the list straight up...


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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2022, 01:11:44 am »
20+ years in this and hosting parties.  The ONLY requests I have ever gotten are Galaga  and more recently Street Fighter 2.  No one gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about anything else in my experience.


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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2022, 03:19:23 pm »
20+ years in this and hosting parties.  The ONLY requests I have ever gotten are Galaga  and more recently Street Fighter 2.  No one gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about anything else in my experience.

This is true but add Ms. Pac-Man and Frogger.  That's basically all anyone wants to play.

As for console classics - there are too many to list unless you mean the ones that play comfortably on an arcade cabinet and then that list is 0.  It's so subjective anyway you are never going to get people to agree.  Just in the mainline Mario series alone, you list Super Mario Bros. (a GREAT game) but I think that Super Mario World, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Bros. 3, Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey are all much better games.  In fact, the most recent game, Super Mario Odyssey, is probably my favorite of all of them.  It's so perfect I can't imagine where they can take the series next to innovate.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2022, 11:13:17 am »
I agree with @pjbj and @javeryh.  The cabinet that gets the most play in my gameroom is the 2/4 way vertical.  I stripped it down to Galaga, Ms Pac, Donkey Kong, Frogger, and Dig Dug via an ArcadeSD board.  I can't blame guests because those are the games I tend to play the most.  To be honest, I am thinking of getting rid of my 8-way vertical and horizontal cabs for space since they are rarely played and replacing them with a pinball machine or two.   Sometimes less is more and those early classics are what peole love and remember.

Personally, I have never liked console gaming on a cabinet.  I prefer to game period correct.  Playing a game that I used to play on the NES, SNES, Genesis, etc seems odd and awkward standing up in front of a cabinet.   I prefer having a CRT and using real hardware via a couch or comfy chair.  I do use Everdrive carts with my consoles vs paying the crazy prices that retro games are currently going for.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 01:34:20 pm by csnow »

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2022, 09:05:50 pm »
"Classic" is extremely subjective on consoles.  The easy solution there is just to do a Google search on something like "top 10 NES game titles", plugging in your console of choice and get a feel for what was popular. I agree though that console games aren't a great fit for an arcade machine--especially from the SNES era on where playing without a proper gamepad starts to get messy, and their often long and continuing gameplay intended for the couch feels misplaced.  Early 8-bit machines fare much better since most of their titles were either arcade style or arcade conversions that typically work well with an arcade machine CP. 

Anyway, getting off that topic, when it comes to arcade games you can go here for a few lists I totally agree with (https://www.arcade-museum.com/TOP100.php).  If you want a very personal list from someone (me) who was an avid arcade nerd starting in the late 70s and what games were eating my quarters at the local Dream Machine arcade just before Pac Man lit the world on fire, and seem more like true classics to me (as opposed to just popular), here you go.

Wild Gunman (full motion video...in 1974!.  No emulation available though, I think.)
Warrior (the first fighter--I still play this with my brother from time to time)
Atari Baseball/Football (lines at the arcade were too long to play most of the time)
Lunar Lander (amazing "simulator" -- a true "nail biter")
Night Driver (First person, sit-down driving simulation- smooth and stunning!)
Monaco GP (Color!! and crazy hard -- extremely popular. A decent simulator of this game is available.)
Star Fire (Star Wars before Star Wars - I cheered when MAME finally added sound to this!)
Tail Gunner  (True 3D wireframe graphics! Fast and exciting.  Just one more time!)
Rip-Off  (A big two-player favorite-and the definition of a manic shooter)
Galaxian  (Made the popular but boring old Space Invaders exciting -- and in color too)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 09:36:47 pm by gildahl »

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2022, 02:53:00 pm »
There is no definitive list because everyone has different tastes. That's why, despite the fact that I appreciate the effort, stuff like the all killer list is basically worthless.

Like, Street Fighter 2 could be someone's favorite game, and someone else simply might suck at fighting games and not like them at all. It doesn't work.

I will say that no single setup should probably have more than around 100 games on it, though. There just aren't that many games still worth playing today. Trying to support everything just leads to doing everything terribly instead of doing a more focused set of things well.
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gildahl

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2022, 04:52:58 pm »
The way real arcade machines worked (and still do) is the attract mode.  You don't play off a list, you play what looks fun at the moment.  Lists only make sense when the person playing the machine knows ahead what the games are and what they want to play.  It turns out in my experience as of late that people from this generation, even middle age folks, don't have a clue what to play ahead of time since they didn't grow up with these games.  So when using a front end with lists, they have no basis for trying a specific game other than to try something more-or-less randomly.  So what's the point of putting it on a list in the first place other than a restriction.

That's why these days I have my machine programmed to just put up random games and switch them every 5 to 10 minutes. The attract mode does the rest. If it looks fun to play, you just start playing it.  Yeah, there's a list behind the set of games that are rotated--which is basically "the list of all games that are aren't trash and work well with my control panel".  And yes, if I (or someone else) really, really wants to play a specific game, they can press a button to see a list, but 9 times out of 10 it's not needed. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 05:11:53 pm by gildahl »

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 05:26:06 pm »
People have difficulty choosing from a list, even with video previews & other media available. Their brains become overwhelmed by the choices and they end up unable to choose anything.

Bit like modern life. Imagine yourself at the supermarket, staring agape at a wall full of baked beans, unable to choose which brand or variant.

This is why the All Killer/No Filler lists are so popular. Pick a genre or game style, get a short list of great games.

This is why 60-in-ones are still popular, even though they are pretty ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, 60 classic games, always a winner.

People can only handle lists if they are very tightly trimmed and targeted. Even then, smaller the better.

For example, I'm making a cab playlist where you can choose whatever game you like, so long as it is Tetris.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 09:26:32 pm »
That's why, despite the fact that I appreciate the effort, stuff like the all killer list is basically worthless.

The "all killer" lists are the starting point, not the destination.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 09:56:22 pm »
There is no definitive list because everyone has different tastes. That's why, despite the fact that I appreciate the effort, stuff like the all killer list is basically worthless.

Like, Street Fighter 2 could be someone's favorite game, and someone else simply might suck at fighting games and not like them at all. It doesn't work.

I will say that no single setup should probably have more than around 100 games on it, though. There just aren't that many games still worth playing today. Trying to support everything just leads to doing everything terribly instead of doing a more focused set of things well.

The lists are a 95% solution for those looking to build a genre based game list. You take that list and do some tweaks and you're there. I don't think it's worthless at all.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2022, 02:16:24 am »
There is no definitive list because everyone has different tastes. That's why, despite the fact that I appreciate the effort, stuff like the all killer list is basically worthless.

Like, Street Fighter 2 could be someone's favorite game, and someone else simply might suck at fighting games and not like them at all. It doesn't work.

I will say that no single setup should probably have more than around 100 games on it, though. There just aren't that many games still worth playing today. Trying to support everything just leads to doing everything terribly instead of doing a more focused set of things well.

Wow.

9 posts and you think you qualify to make that kind of commentary on such a monumental effort, which when utilized properly (it is broken down into categories too if you actually have the mental acuity to look) does more to hone down the tens of thousands of titles 99.9% have no interest in sifting through?

Go away.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2022, 10:16:06 am »
Qualify? Get real, your majesty. Putting together a list of games with a ton of filler and then calling it "no filler" isn't a "monumental effort." I don't think you know what a monumental effort is.

Take your own advice. You won't be missed.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2022, 11:21:21 am »
Who the ---fudgesicle--- is this dbag guy?

Sorry. dchase.

My autocorrect must be acting up.


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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 11:23:49 am »

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 02:12:12 pm »
Qualify? Get r8eal, your majesty. Putting together a list of games with a ton of filler and then calling it "no filler" isn't a "monumental effort." I don't think you know what a monumental effort is.

Take your own advice. You won't be missed.

 :lol
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 02:35:19 pm »
There is no definitive list because everyone has different tastes. That's why, despite the fact that I appreciate the effort, stuff like the all killer list is basically worthless.

Like, Street Fighter 2 could be someone's favorite game, and someone else simply might suck at fighting games and not like them at all. It doesn't work.

I will say that no single setup should probably have more than around 100 games on it, though. There just aren't that many games still worth playing today. Trying to support everything just leads to doing everything terribly instead of doing a more focused set of things well.

I guess you don't entertain guests.  This isn't about individual likes. Rather, it contains titles that were the most poplular during the era.  Those lists are very worthwile and applicable for people building machines.  Its a great starting point that checks 99% of what the general population knew and played back then.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 02:57:58 pm »
Qualify? Get r8eal, your majesty. Putting together a list of games with a ton of filler and then calling it "no filler" isn't a "monumental effort." I don't think you know what a monumental effort is.

Take your own advice. You won't be missed.

 :lol

I would miss you Bobby.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 04:35:15 pm »
Qualify? Get r8eal, your majesty. Putting together a list of games with a ton of filler and then calling it "no filler" isn't a "monumental effort." I don't think you know what a monumental effort is.

Take your own advice. You won't be missed.

 :lol

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2022, 05:51:47 pm »
Honestly, I reckon the dude that's knocking out factory quality arcade cabinets in 2-3 days over and over again might have some authority to describe something as a "monumental effort."

 :cheers:


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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2022, 06:36:36 pm »
My point stands. An actual example of "monumental effort" was John Carmack programming Quake 1. Basically one dude throwing out everything he had and doing client/server multiplayer and a 3D renderer at a time when 99.99999% of the world couldn't have done it. THAT is "monumental." Nailing some pieces of wood together or making lists on the internet doesn't "qualify."
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2022, 08:20:52 pm »
My point stands. An actual example of "monumental effort" was John Carmack programming Quake 1. Basically one dude throwing out everything he had and doing client/server multiplayer and a 3D renderer at a time when 99.99999% of the world couldn't have done it. THAT is "monumental." Nailing some pieces of wood together or making lists on the internet doesn't "qualify."

You're a complete idiot.

You think John Carmack designed Quake all by himself? No doubt he was a key developer and cool guy, but there was a whole team of people working around him at Id Software.

I should know - I was designing game and deathmatch levels for top players at the time. I *was* one of the top players.

You hoping that some of John's glory should rub off onto you when you mention his name is so funny, I might just have to roll around on the floor laughing  :laugh2:

Geez you're a funny bastard. Stupid as a brick, but hell funny  :lol

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2022, 08:26:09 pm »
My point stands. An actual example of "monumental effort" was John Carmack programming Quake 1. Basically one dude throwing out everything he had and doing client/server multiplayer and a 3D renderer at a time when 99.99999% of the world couldn't have done it. THAT is "monumental." Nailing some pieces of wood together or making lists on the internet doesn't "qualify."

Can one of the mods run an IP check on this guy?  I have theories.

 :cheers:

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2022, 11:45:24 pm »
Qualify? Get r8eal, your majesty. Putting together a list of games with a ton of filler and then calling it "no filler" isn't a "monumental effort." I don't think you know what a monumental effort is.

Take your own advice. You won't be missed.

 :lol

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Thank you gents!  Nostradamus won't scare me off.

I suppose I'll apologize to EssexMame for thread derailment on this putz's behalf, as I'm sure he will not.

My point stands. An actual example of "monumental effort" was John Carmack programming Quake 1. Basically one dude throwing out everything he had and doing client/server multiplayer and a 3D renderer at a time when 99.99999% of the world couldn't have done it. THAT is "monumental." Nailing some pieces of wood together or making lists on the internet doesn't "qualify."

Can one of the mods run an IP check on this guy?  I have theories.

 :cheers:

Sounds entirely reasonable, unlike some opinions and arguments in this thread.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 12:18:44 am »
My point stands. An actual example of "monumental effort" was John Carmack programming Quake 1. Basically one dude throwing out everything he had and doing client/server multiplayer and a 3D renderer at a time when 99.99999% of the world couldn't have done it. THAT is "monumental." Nailing some pieces of wood together or making lists on the internet doesn't "qualify."

You're a complete idiot.

You think John Carmack designed Quake all by himself? No doubt he was a key developer and cool guy, but there was a whole team of people working around him at Id Software.

I should know - I was designing game and deathmatch levels for top players at the time. I *was* one of the top players.

You hoping that some of John's glory should rub off onto you when you mention his name is so funny, I might just have to roll around on the floor laughing  :laugh2:

Geez you're a funny bastard. Stupid as a brick, but hell funny  :lol

For the record - Bobby does pro-level work, which means he doesn't use nails.

Yes, Carmack designed and came up with Quake's engine entirely himself. Mike Abrash optimized some of the code afterwards but it was mostly Carmack. Hence "monumental effort." It was an insane achievement for one guy. You're sure pretty eager to fling insults when you're talking to someone far more knowledgeable and intelligent than you.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 12:20:22 am by dchase »
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 02:02:08 am »
Wow, you don't know what you are talking about, or anything beyond reading Wikipedia and chatting with some fanboys. Yet, from your armchair way over there, you think you are some kind of expert? Further, you squirm, wail and cry like a spoilt child when proven wrong, and hit out unfairly at respected members.

While Carmack did much of the Quake engine development, he was not alone, the game is much more than that, and it took a large team of people to pull off. The game would be nothing without many hands pulling together.

That also largely glosses over all the dev work that had been done over many years before that point, that Quake built upon, particularly when you look back at the history from Doom days, back to Wolfenstein and even earlier. Yes, I was there too [yawn].

Reckon you were still getting breastfed and soiling nappies when Quake came out. Your favourite weapons were projectile vomit and bottom-bombs. Or are you even younger than that? I know 12 year olds with more maturity.

Anyway, this is just a distraction. Time to move on.

A much better example of "monumental effort" is our collective attempts to communicate with you. "Pointless effort" is another phrase that comes to mind.

My advice, which you'll almost certainly ignore because it would be admitting failure, would be to pull your head in when
you're talking to someone far more knowledgeable and intelligent than you.
  Which would be most of the time.

However, my money is on you coming back and trying to get the last word. Maybe try to tell everyone how clever you are, while simultaneously sounding really dumb. Maybe even flame-on at me :angry:  I don't want to provoke you but, go on, prove me right   :applaud:

Note: You've already been officially warned.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2022, 03:05:56 am »
I'm still interested to see the fruit of pbj's suggestion.

Other than that I would say angry opinionated noobs are not worth much effort.
Anyway...

Mr. EssexMame, if you are still following this train into the weeds, I was thinking that it is a pretty broad ask, so maybe to qualify your inquiry may help?

When I started thinking about trying to offer useful info, I started thinking, "well ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, my favorite trackball games, or spinner games, or joystick games...?  Or vertical or horizontal ones?  Or..."

Even counting all the games I ever remember playing even once and have any nostalgia for at all, the ones I really liked and played a lot, and the ones I never got to but wanted to try, the total pile I have culled to is still under 180 games.

For the multi-panel mayhem project I actually have a spreadsheet of this ridiculousness broken down by control panel layout.

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Zebidee

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2022, 03:46:49 am »
The question, or variants of it, has been asked here many times before.

Eventually we got the No Killer/No Filler lists. These are a good starting place.

Reality is though, you'll never be 100% happy with anyone else's lists. You'll always feel like taking some games off, putting some on. So do it.

Best lists are short lists.

If you have more than say, 50-60 games, multiple (shorter) lists work better (for example, based on genre and/or controls)

If you use the progetta catver.ini (there are different versions) with your frontend, or romlister or similar mame list tool, you can automatically make all kinds of lists (and cull back from there).
https://www.progettosnaps.net/catver/
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2022, 04:33:57 am »
Wow, you don't know what you are talking about, or anything beyond reading Wikipedia and chatting with some fanboys. Yet, from your armchair way over there, you think you are some kind of expert? Further, you squirm, wail and cry like a spoilt child when proven wrong, and hit out unfairly at respected members.

While Carmack did much of the Quake engine development, he was not alone, the game is much more than that, and it took a large team of people to pull off. The game would be nothing without many hands pulling together.

That also largely glosses over all the dev work that had been done over many years before that point, that Quake built upon, particularly when you look back at the history from Doom days, back to Wolfenstein and even earlier. Yes, I was there too [yawn].

Reckon you were still getting breastfed and soiling nappies when Quake came out. Your favourite weapons were projectile vomit and bottom-bombs. Or are you even younger than that? I know 12 year olds with more maturity.

Anyway, this is just a distraction. Time to move on.

A much better example of "monumental effort" is our collective attempts to communicate with you. "Pointless effort" is another phrase that comes to mind.

My advice, which you'll almost certainly ignore because it would be admitting failure, would be to pull your head in when
you're talking to someone far more knowledgeable and intelligent than you.
  Which would be most of the time.

However, my money is on you coming back and trying to get the last word. Maybe try to tell everyone how clever you are, while simultaneously sounding really dumb. Maybe even flame-on at me :angry:  I don't want to provoke you but, go on, prove me right   :applaud:

Note: You've already been officially warned.

Literally everything you typed is wrong. It's a recurring theme with you. I ordered the registered Quake directly from id Software by phone and was playing it during the summer of 1996 (I played qtest on the internet probably before you had an internet connection as well). Quake was basically a from scratch game. About the only thing that carried over from Doom was some placeholder graphics during development. Virtually every part of the engine was programmed by Carmack. He architected 100% of it. All Abrash did on it was optimizations. You can literally read interviews with Abrash and the book he wrote about it. He himself literally says it was all Carmack. You're dumber than a lump of Georgia clay and twice as ugly.

I'm warning you. Stop spreading ---smurf-poo--- and lying about me. And for what it's worth, I never personally insulted anyone specifically and yet have been repeatedly personally insulted by others here. You're a bunch of children. No wonder why this forum is dead. It's filled with toxic scumbags.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 04:38:44 am by dchase »
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Zebidee

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2022, 05:39:51 am »
:lol, you can't give up can you? I knew you'd come back with some half-made-up rubbish to delude yourself about your cleverness. As usual it is wrong. There is almost no point to explaining why, you'll just come back with more made-up rubbish.

Quake engine was completely new - it had to be, because it was true 3D, not fake 3D like Doom and Wolfenstein etc. There are more details I could go into but I'm afraid you would get bored.

However.

Trying to deny that the learning and experience that came before and went into it, specifically from Doom and Wolf development, is nuts.  Denying the team efforts and deifying Carmack is nuts too. He's a cool n clever guy, but leave it at that. His fairy dust does not land on you and will not allow you fly.

If you want to talk about gods and make-believe, there is the religion and politics branch of the forum.

... You're dumber than a lump of Georgia clay and twice as ugly.

I'm warning you. Stop spreading ---smurf-poo--- and lying about me. And for what it's worth, I never personally insulted anyone specifically and yet have been repeatedly personally insulted by others here. You're a bunch of children. No wonder why this forum is dead. It's filled with toxic scumbags.

You have hurled personal insults with no basis, and just done so again! No lies have been told except by you. I also read "I'm warning you" as a threat. OMG, I'm quivering in my sandals, lock the doors honey!  :scared

This thread has been notified to the mods. hopefully they'll ban you. Then the forum will be a little better and, as you say, less toxic.

Ima gunna go get some popcorn

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2022, 07:00:07 am »
Mr. dchase will no longer be joining us.
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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2022, 07:18:33 am »
Nice work.

Good riddance.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2022, 08:03:11 am »
Honing in on Carmack of all people was singularly weird. 

 :cheers:



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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2022, 08:28:28 am »
Mr. dchase will no longer be joining us.

Thank you.   My tongue is injured because I've been biting it for two days reading his posts.  He was jumping into several threads (some of which were 5 years old) being a jerk.

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Re: Bonafide Classics
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2022, 10:48:05 am »
Mr. dchase will no longer be joining us.

Thank you sir  :notworthy:


Honing in on Carmack of all people was singularly weird. 

 :cheers:

Not only weird, but unfortunate (for him) with me "in the room".

I was heavily into the whole early FPS scene. As a top player (trophies!) and unofficial content developer. Most of that time was many years *before* 1996. Hell, I was modding Wolfenstein levels and distributing even before Doom came out.

I've got more to say.

I never got a red cent for any of my development work - it was like that, I never expected anything - but you could buy CDs with *my* content down at the local computer shop! Was distributed with a "free to use, no sell" licence, so WTF??

Better get a lawyer son. You're gunna need a good one, to get you outta this one! Maybe not.

I get that Carmack's work makes him like a gaming god to some younger noobs. That idolation ignores the facts that he had a big team around him (lot bigger than he had with Doom, more $$ too), made up of some very talented and creative people. I'm happy for his success and sports cars. Truly.

However, there was also an unpaid community that contributed to almost everything, raising the bars, doing new things, making it possible for Quake. And games to come.

You can read all the books you want, is not the same as lived experience.

I ended up leaving that whole scene. possible career, in about 1997 (got bored, no real rewards, broke up with fiancee (too much gaming), she got the computer (too slow anyway), I got the washing machine :'( ).

Life was lived pay-to-pay back then.

Ironically that FPS background (and a few other things) eventually helped me step into a nice me-sized government IT innovation and industry development policy job, which I always really wanted anyway. I'm an economist (and other things) as well as a geek. I became a spanner inside the machine. Never mentioned it to you lovely people (Govt work, secrets, don't talk, hurr).

Many years later, enough years have passed. Feel free and happy to say that I've leveraged my experiences to do a lot of great early work on promoting/developing online collaborative communities. In small and big ways, some of them countable, many people have benefited. I have BYOAC to thank for much inspiration. Oh, and I got some meagre retirement benefits after many years. So thanks guys.

Guess it all worked out somehow then. Even so, no Ferrari  :-\

I could go on, but better stop here   :-X

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