Happ guns for emulator setup?

[purbeast]

I currently have a Maximum Force cabinet with an 8 way JAMMA switcher in it with 2 Happ guns and everything works great.  I have about 20 or so different boards for it and have one of the 8 ports external so I can swap games without pulling the cabinet out and opening it.

However, I have for a while been wondering if there is a way I can basically do this with a PC and emulator.

Is there anyway to get the Happ guns to work natively with the CRT and an emulator setup like MAME on a PC and have everything work through the JAMMA harness? 

I had heard some things about using a USB2Gun board from America's Army to do something similar to this however I could never find much information about it, nor if games were able to be emulated well in MAME.

Last time I played my Lethal Enforcers board, the sound is starting to go and I know that means I have to replace the sound chip on it, which isn't easy/trivial and isn't cheap.  It's things like this that make me wonder if I can go a different direction with basically turning this into a light gun emulation station if possible so that I won't have issues like this in the long run.

I also have a Time Crisis pedal that I use for Time Crisis on it so it would be awesome if that could be hooked up as well somehow.  If I recall though, I believe it's just hooked to either P1 Button 1 or P1 Start under the hood.

Anyways, if anyone has any information about this that would be great.  If it's not possible and someone can confirm that, that would be great too just so I know it's not a possible route.

Thanks.

[purbeast]

I am bumping this because I am still interested in this.

I have since put together a PC in my KI2 cabinet and have a MAME setup with a JPAC and am using HyperSpin for it.

So I am curious, is there anything similar to this for light gun games, that I could put inside my Maximum Force cabinet, with a USB2GUN board?

I'm going to continue searching the forums now, but this was the first result I saw when searching and forgot I made this thread lol.

[BadMouth]

"USB2Gun" was just the name a shady vendor was using for reselling the GlobalVR board as a new product.  They made a manual, but don't think they ever sold any.
EDIT: seems I'm wrong about that.  It is called USB2Gun in the GlobalVR manual.

Project showing it working: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138723.msg1433282.html#msg1433282
The project thread should contain useful info.

Manual: https://service.globalvr.com/downloads/aa/040-0143-01_Americas_Army_Manual-web.pdf

That board shows up as joysticks, thus works with any emulator that can utilize a joystick for each gun.
(MAME, other emulators with helper programs like Demulshooter)

You mentioned in another thread that you had a board that shows up as a mouse.
That would work for any emulator that can utilize multiple mice, which is probably limited to MAME.
But it may work with some type of helper program to convert the mouse input to joystick input.
Outside of MAME 1 player would still work on all the emulators.

I have not messed with this stuff in a long time, so can't be a whole lot of help.
I need to get back into it.  I have wii guns working on my cab, but need to get them both working in all games.

[purbeast]

"USB2Gun" was just the name a shady vendor was using for reselling the GlobalVR board as a new product.  They made a manual, but don't think they ever sold any.

Project showing it working: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138723.msg1433282.html#msg1433282
The project thread should contain useful info.

Manual: https://service.globalvr.com/downloads/aa/040-0143-01_Americas_Army_Manual-web.pdf

That board shows up as joysticks, thus works with any emulator that can utilize a joystick for each gun.
(MAME, other emulators with helper programs like Demulshooter)

You mentioned in another thread that you had a board that shows up as a mouse.
That would work for any emulator that can utilize multiple mice, which is probably limited to MAME.
But it may work with some type of helper program to convert the mouse input to joystick input.
Outside of MAME 1 player would still work on all the emulators.

I have not messed with this stuff in a long time, so can't be a whole lot of help.
I need to get back into it.  I have wii guns working on my cab, but need to get them both working in all games.

Okay thanks, that manual helps understand each connector on the board and I think I have an idea of how I'd have to pass stuff through there.

I am guessing that the JPAC VGA cable would go to USB2GUN IN, and then USB2GUN OUT would go to the PC. 

As for the other board I have, I have 2 of them but haven't tested them so I am not sure if they work and if they do, if they are recognized as a mouse or not.

Do you know where I would go in windows to see if they are recognized, and what they are recognized as?

I may play around with it this weekend if I have time, but not sure I will with Mother's Day, the new Zelda, and the NBA playoffs lol.

[BadMouth]

In recent versions of Windows:
Control Panel>Hardware & Sound>Devices & Printers

If it shows up as a gamepad/joystick you can right click on it to go to controller settings, then properties for the input test, calibration and settings.
It was a lot easier to find in XP.

[purbeast]

Okay thanks.  I am either on 10 or 11 I can't remember which I put on there.

[purbeast]

Okay so I made some progress and was able to hook up the Friction USB board to my MAME cabinet with a JPAC.  I also have an HDMI cable that I keep plugged into it so I can hook up to an external monitor because it boots windows at like 320x240 and it's hard to do anything in it.

I found the CRTGUN as a controller in the settings.



When I clicked on the properties it showed "Gun 1" and it had it listed twice.  I am guessing that is because it has 2 gun inputs on the USB Board.

I noticed when I pressed the trigger, the CRT flashed when I did that. 

I went into the calibration settings and it again, found the button trigger input.  However when I went to set the axis and stuff, it wasn't moving at all.  I turned on the advanced settings too that show the X/Y coordinates and it stayed at 0 the whole time.

I then tried this with the CRT side of things and tried calibrating it via the CRT itself.  It was hard to navigate and get to where I had to go, but I managed and when I was in there, I saw the same behavior. 

Here is a little video I took.  Anyone know if there is something I am just missing?  I know this gun works too as I played something with it recently.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/k9lBj7fMLBM

EDIT:

I do actually have another spare Happ gun I forgot I had, and I hooked them both up.  I can confirm that both guns triggers work, when in the test mode for the right one (ie, first GUN1 only first player trigger is recognized and GUN2 trigger does nothing in this test, and vice versa).  However neither of them seem to be tracking at all so I am wondering if there is something I am missing.

I will probably try my Target Terror board later on as well and see if I get anything with that.

EDIT 2:

So Target Terror IO board doesn't have a VGA pass through so there is no way I can use that with the JPAC so looks like that one definitely isn't something that would work for me.

[BadMouth]

True old school light guns don't know where they are pointed until the trigger is pulled and the screen flashes. 
They don't track when you wave them around like modern IR guns.
The video signal should be run through the device and the screen should flash when you pull the trigger. 
Google how light guns work and watch Jollywest's video.

 

They also might not work at that low of a resolution.

Not that it's applicable, but when I used old Act Labs S-Video CRT guns I had to set all the gun games to the same resolution and refresh rate so the guns wouldn't need recalibrated every time.  I don't recall which resolution and refresh rate I used.

Read JollyWest's build thread.  He mentions starting with 800x600, but I'm not rereading the whole thing.  He also mentions that both guns show up as Gun1, so I guess that is normal.

[BadMouth]

The rebranded USB2Gun was called OptiGun.  I noticed the links for it in Jollywest's thread were dead.
Can't believe I didn't attach it somewhere in the forum for preservation.
Luckily still had a copy.
It lists compatible resolutions.

[purbeast]

True old school light guns don't know where they are pointed until the trigger is pulled and the screen flashes. 
They don't track when you wave them around like modern IR guns.
The video signal should be run through the device and the screen should flash when you pull the trigger. 
Google how light guns work and watch Jollywest's video.

 

They also might not work at that low of a resolution.

Not that it's applicable, but when I used old Act Labs S-Video CRT guns I had to set all the gun games to the same resolution and refresh rate so the guns wouldn't need recalibrated every time.  I don't recall which resolution and refresh rate I used.

Read JollyWest's build thread.  He mentions starting with 800x600, but I'm not rereading the whole thing.  He also mentions that both guns show up as Gun1, so I guess that is normal.

Yeah I am aware how they work and I also read like you are saying they don't track until the trigger is pulled, and i know in that video you can't really see where I'm pointing when pulling the trigger, but I tried aiming all around and pulling the trigger and the X in that box never moved or anything.  But yeah you are right the X wouldn't move when I just waggle it around without pulling the trigger.

Do you know if it is supposed to move in that little box when testing it out and calibrating?  I assumed that X in the box there would move to the top left of the box if I aimed at the top left of the screen and pulled the trigger.

It should work on the CGA monitor just fine.  That is the same resolution monitor that is in my Maximum Force cabinet with happ guns and real arcade boards.  I'm guessing he started at that resolution because it's really impossible to do anything "real" with such low resolution since dialogs don't even fit on the screen lol.

[purbeast]

So I made a bit more progress...

I remember reading in his thread I believe about turning the brightness up when calibrating, so I gave that a try by turning the brightness and contrast all the way up, and I was getting tracking responses!

You can see it in the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H-f7bYQlEgo

I tried playing Lethal Enforcers though and the problem is, I don't know how to set it up so that it uses the gamepad for the controller instead of the joysticks, which are mapped to the keyboard.

I am running Hyperspin on this so it could be that I have to set something up in there before running it, but I'll play around with it a bit more later on.

I also remembered that the monitor which was originally in my Maximum Force cabinet and is now in the KI2 cabinet, had issues with a bunch of light gun games not tracking and I swapped it with my KI2 cab and it tracks much better.  So the whole tracking issue could possibly just be a monitor issue.

I think now I have to figure out how to tell the MAME I am running through Hyperspin to work with the gamepad that it thinks the guns are.

[BadMouth]

Can't help with Hyperspin.
Look up a tutorial for setting up other guns in Hyperspin/MAME (jaybee, aimtrack, etc).  Setup should be the same as any other gun that shows up as an analog stick.

Keep in mind that these aren't like regular digital joystick games where the controls for all the games will just work out of the box.  You will have to calibrate the guns in the service menu (usually F2) of every game individually.  You will have to adjust the deadzone, joystick saturation & sensitivity in MAME.ini or else you'll have a 30% deadzone and crosshairs that lag.

For other emulators you will have to use helper programs like demulshooter, but I'm sure someone out there has made a hyperspin tutorial or preconfigured setup for Jaybee's guns.

[purbeast]

Can't help with Hyperspin.
Look up a tutorial for setting up other guns in Hyperspin/MAME (jaybee, aimtrack, etc).  Setup should be the same as any other gun that shows up as an analog stick.

Keep in mind that these aren't like regular digital joystick games where the controls for all the games will just work out of the box.  You will have to calibrate the guns in the service menu (usually F2) of every game individually.  You will have to adjust the deadzone, joystick saturation & sensitivity in MAME.ini or else you'll have a 30% deadzone and crosshairs that lag.

For other emulators you will have to use helper programs like demulshooter, but I'm sure someone out there has made a hyperspin tutorial or preconfigured setup for Jaybee's guns.

Cool thanks yeah I will see if I can do some digging and figure it out. 

I also don't NEED to use HyperSpin or anything like that.  It is just what I am testing all this out with to see if theoretically I can build a new PC to put in my light gun cabinet for strictly light gun games.

When you mention modifying mame.ini, what exactly are you referring to?  I've seen this mentioned on HyperSpin forums but I didn't really see any details as to what people are modifying.

EDIT:

Oh and one thing worth mentioning...

When I tried out Lethal Enforcers in MAME, the trigger actually fires the gun it's just the tracking that isn't working.  I was able to go into the config for LE and set the P1 button to the trigger and it recognized it.  But if I move the joystick on my cab to move the cursor, then use the gun trigger to fire, it works. 

[purbeast]

So I tried hooking up the PC to my other cabinet today and I am having no luck calibrating at all.  In calibration I can't even get it to track at all after going through the windows calibration.  It finds the guns and stuff as it did on the other cabinet, however it simply isn't moving at all after calibrating.  I upped the brightness and contrast and stuff and it didn't help. 

The monitor in question is a WG U2000 if anyone has tried one of these before.

I thought it would work BETTER on this monitor since light gun games track noticeably better on it, especially around the edges of the screen.

EDIT:

I even turned the SCREEN up really high on the flyback so the screen was super white with the lines through it, and it didn't track at all after calibrating.

[BadMouth]

Having never actually used the device, I'm not sure that I can help much further.

Does the resolution and refresh rate of the monitor match one of the supported ones listed in the Opti-Gun manual?

[purbeast]

Having never actually used the device, I'm not sure that I can help much further.

Does the resolution and refresh rate of the monitor match one of the supported ones listed in the Opti-Gun manual?

yeah it's a standard CGA monitor in there.

And you know, now that I think about it, for some reason, this monitor had issues tracking in the real Friction hardware. 

I wonder if it is just something with this Friction board and the monitor.  I never could figure it out at all.

And Friction ran just fine in my KI2 cabinet, which is the monitor I was initially getting feedback on.

And also now that I am thinking about it, I initially swapped monitors because I have a switcher in my Maximum Force, and the remote controls wouldn't allow for enough horizontal and vertical adjustments from the remote board, and I basically need to make adjustments after switching to any new game.

I'm going to try going back to my KI2 cabinet (which has a NeoTec monitor in it, the one that came with Maximum Force) and see if I can figure out how to get it working in MAME on there, and if I can get that to work, I can always swap monitors back. 

If I'm going to be running a PC in there with emulators, then I won't have to adjust H/V at all once I initially set it up.

(sorry started to ramble to myself lol)

[purbeast]

So I got my usb2gun board yesterday.  It is the one with the JAMMA edge.

The first time I powered it on I did not see the device in Windows but I also noticed on the board there were no lights.   I was getting video though just fine from the VGA pass through.

I turned everything off and noticed there is a jumper that says if the board gets power from the PSU or JAMMA and it was set to JAMMA, and I was using PSU.  So I flipped those jumpers and saw red lights come on the usb2gun board so now i know it's getting power.

I fired it up again, and again, I'm not seeing anything in the device list in Windows.

Anyone know what the problem with this could be?