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Author Topic: Kowal's P360 Mod  (Read 10960 times)

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2600

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Kowal's P360 Mod
« on: April 20, 2006, 09:20:14 am »
{This post is based on a PM I received from kowal.   The original is in Polish and was converted to English using an online translator.  This is hopefully just a clean up of that, but it still may not be accurate.  I think all the important information can be understood.  All information below is his views, my comments are added within {}.}


Balltop

The original Battop on the P360 is ugly.  If it were like the battop's on a Tstick or Happs Super it would be ok.  I bought the SlikStik  balltop sticks.  Although nice, these were also a nightmare like the original battop.

Things wrong with the SlikStik Balltop:
1. Too High  - The balltop is higher then the original battop.  This is amazing because a balltop is always lower then a battop by about 1 or 2 cm.
2. Too Heavy
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 09:54:19 am by 2600 »

2600

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2006, 09:21:39 am »
Diagonals
The original P360 has a diagonal range of 15 degrees.  This can make it difficult to jump out or make a low block.  I don't know why it got a rating of 5 for diagonals on Retroblast.  I had 3 P360 and it was the same on every one, small range of diagonals.  It is possible to enlarge using smaller actuator.

orginal actuator diameter 14.5mm ----> range of diagonals 15 degrees
actuator 14mm -----> range of diagonals 20-25 degrees
actuator 13.5mm ------>range of diagonals 40-50 degrees (is my favourite)


2600

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 09:22:14 am »
Spring
The original spring has over 400g of tension. This is a lot to play in fighters. It's better to use a softer spring.  I used the springs from this joystick: http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_info.php?cPath=24_73&products_id=306 
I paid him $3 on Allegro (polish E-bay). This spring had about 250g tension.
{Others have also used the springs from Happ supers}


Crunches
{Not sure what is being said here, but basically kowal doesn't like the friction.  The picture describes what the problem is}
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 09:28:58 am by 2600 »

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 09:26:31 am »
Asymmetric centering to center
This does not happen in all models.  It affects the Joystick on throw and engagement.  The problem is the pivot is not well fitting and it can move around in the base excessively.  This makes it so that sometimes it bends at 7 degrees other times at 11 degrees.  It was decided it would be best to make a new one from this joystick. 
http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_info.php?cPath=24_73&products_id=306
I altered the angle of inclination from 9 degrees to 8 degrees.


« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 09:53:41 am by 2600 »

Timoe

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 10:11:40 am »
So, you are saying that the P360's are no good?

2600

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 10:28:04 am »
So, you are saying that the P360's are no good?

I won't speak for kowal, but I wouldn't go to all that work on a joystick I didn't like.  Then again this is BYOAC, we'd go polish a turd just because we can.


For those that haven't figured it out joysticks are a highly opinionated thing and the only opinion that matters is yours.  There is no right, no wrong, no best, no worst, no good, no bad (well maybe a few bad  ;)) joysticks.   It's all up to the user using them.  This is one person's opinion and how he made one joystick better for him.

dpz147

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 11:26:51 am »
Maybe it would be easier to list joysticks to definitely avoid.

The only one that I read a lot of negative reviews on was Happ's Ultimate Joystick.

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 11:41:43 am »
Forgot to put in my opinion's.

It's a cool little mod that looks like a lot of thought was put into it.  I know I was looking to make some ball tops for the P360's and that's what prompted my conversation with kawol.  I agree with him on the diagonals.  Sometimes I find my self missing the diagonals in games like robocop, not so much in a game like robotron.  I've never had a problem with the springs, but I know some people say they prefer them softer.

I recommend other users checking out his site as well.  A lot of testing has been done on a variety of products by kawol.  Even if you don't agree with him, it's still neat to see

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 02:52:44 am »
:notworthy:


destructor

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 07:00:36 am »
I can add 2 cents (I'm from Poland too ;))

1. I have P360 too. Without any mod it's good joystikcs.

2. I changed balltop (SlikStik) for shorter balltop (from kowal otherwise), still use original ball from SlikStik. Now P360 is very good.

3. I changed actuator for 13,5mm. Now P360 is excellent!
I can easy made beautifull circles in airshooters now ;)

I try to change spring to lighter too, but with SlikStik heavy ball it's impossible to play on lighter spring and I back to standard P360 spring. Maybe in future I change spring and ball/balltop.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 10:01:17 am by destructor »

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 09:31:16 am »
I'm not doubting this works because you've obviously done it, but I'm just curious as to how this works....  I thought the actuator blocks light from the optical sensor, but if you slim it down, wouldn't that change the amount of light being blocked and therefore effecting performance?  If you apply this hack, can you only use it in 8-way mode?

Also, could you just take a razor and shave away at the edge of the actuator to prevent the friction and achieve the same result?

Thanks!  :)

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 10:04:48 am »
If you apply this hack, can you only use it in 8-way mode?
This is modify for 8-way only.

kowal

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 11:05:47 am »
but I'm just curious as to how this works....  I thought the actuator blocks light from the optical sensor, but if you slim it down, wouldn't that change the amount of light being blocked and therefore effecting performance?  If you apply this hack, can you only use it in 8-way mode?
they wider actuator, it more the strongly shelter diodes. They wider this longer road is to engagement also. They narrower this quicker engagement is. This  causes also broadening diagonals automatically. Modification concerns only mode 8 way.   It is obvious .  Mode 4way on P360 is not original 4way. I do not use this mode (4way). I do not like deceitful modes 4 way (still round rotations :angry:). Original 4way mode then rhombus (Sanwa JLW, Seimitsu :applaud:).

Also, could you just take a razor and shave away at the edge of the actuator to prevent the friction and achieve the same result?
Cutting edges, you will do away only one point of friction. On drawing to be visible 2 points. Second point was it been possible to do away squeezing spring only. Funnel will thrust to up then. It was one should use longer actuator about 1,5 mm (original h=17,5mm, custom h=19mm)

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2006, 06:48:20 pm »
when the shaft is centered, the actuator blocks the light from all 4 LEDs. moving the shaft away from center unblocks the light from one or at most two of the LEDs at a time.

the smaller the actuator, the sooner the light is unblocked. thus, a smaller actuator gives you a joystick that engages more quickly (has a smaller central dead zone) and has a larger fraction of its circle that registers diagonals.
to see my "Frankenpanel" and design notes, click here.

feltz

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Re: Kowal's P360 Mod
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2022, 03:14:01 pm »
Sorry to revive a really old thread, but i recently was attempting to modify my p360 actuators, and had problems finding these things, and also didnt want to pay for a lot of 50.
Ended up creating my own STL file and 3D printed some, and they work perfectly, thought I would share them for anyone else in the future attempting to do the same.

These are 13.5mm which give more diagonal range, and 19mm long which resolves the crunchy noise.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 03:15:36 pm by feltz »