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options for 49 way joysticks?
RandyT:
--- Quote from: EvilNuff on August 22, 2022, 03:26:08 pm ---I'm not aware of any other options right now other than an analog stick or the happ 49s at $175ish a pop?
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Wow, they spiked in price! Looks like the real ones really are no longer in production for that to have happened.
But there is another option. Lower cost than from HAPP (even with a USB interface and connecting cables), more functionality and a stainless shaft with balltop to boot! ;)
KenToad:
--- Quote from: RandyT on August 22, 2022, 02:50:06 pm ---Any analog joystick can be made to report 49-positions, but that doesn't make it a real old-school-like-you-remember 49-way joystick. Regardless of the sensing technology being used, there will likely be massive differences in construction, feel in operation and from the looks of it, performance.
But I doubt anyone really expects anything different from a machine built to a price point where 4 old-school 49-ways would account for 2/3rds of it's retail. While a stick like that will definitely make those games more playable, anyone thinking they will deliver remotely the same experience as the originals at a lower cost, is probably being somewhat delusional.
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What part of the performance looks off to you? Using a higher resolution analog device to scale down to a low resolution output seems like something you would approve.
The games are definitely not going to play exactly like the old games. They're not even emulated. These are new builds of the old games running natively on whatever hardware A1up is using, with some features like brutal late hits removed.
Anyway, they're Midway arcade sports games with "balancing" algorithms. They're not competitive games. You just want to make your guy to run in more than 8 directions because it makes you feel like you have more control.
RandyT:
--- Quote from: KenToad on August 23, 2022, 12:01:14 pm ---What part of the performance looks off to you? Using a higher resolution analog device to scale down to a low resolution output seems like something you would approve.
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Slow down the video to 1/4 speed and watch the sections where the joystick is moved quickly.
Also, there's nothing wrong with scaling or an alternative sensing means, so long as it does it in near real-time like the original digital/optical sensors. But that extra processing naturally takes time to do, especially if the analog has slow algorithms applied for jitter reduction/re-mapping and the results are then processed again for serial transmission.
Performance is also not just limited to the electronics. The smooth and gradual increase in resistance against the movement of the shaft and the natural resistance of moving parts in certain directions of the original (which may or may not be desirable depending on the game) all play into it's overall performance. You can slap an analog sensor on any joystick, but in use, it will still play like the joystick you slapped the sensor onto. If that gets the job done for the application at hand, then no problems. But doing this and calling it by the same name as something which has existed in a very different and specific form for decades, even though it is technically accurate, can and most likely will lead to confusion and inaccurate conclusions regarding the value of the real deal.
But as these have not yet been released and the hardware being used is still an unknown, I would reserve final judgement on how well they were able to do until after some hands-on. It's foolish to come to a concrete conclusion about these things from a tech video or reviews by "tubers" who were sent free machines and have never touched a real one. :)
KenToad:
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for your response.
One thing about 49-way joysticks, at least the ones I got from Happ in the mid-2000's, is that they shipped with pretty crappy rubber grommets. In fact, whenever I play a Blitz or a Gauntlet Legends cab, the sticks' movement feels like mushy crap. Granted, the replacement rubber grommets you sold me did fix the issue, but really this new design looks much better in that regard. And I doubt that the performance issues beyond just durability will mean too much on a Blitz cab, but yeah, let's wait and see. I'm actually pretty excited that Arcade 1UP didn't just go with 8-way joysticks like New Wave Toys seems to be going with their Food Fight replicade.
RandyT:
--- Quote from: KenToad on August 23, 2022, 01:24:46 pm ---One thing about 49-way joysticks, at least the ones I got from Happ in the mid-2000's, is that they shipped with pretty crappy rubber grommets. In fact, whenever I play a Blitz or a Gauntlet Legends cab, the sticks' movement feels like mushy crap. Granted, the replacement rubber grommets you sold me did fix the issue, but really this new design looks much better in that regard.
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Honestly, those are the worst things to have happened to those sticks. I made a stink about it, but they were being made at that time for a specific customer who considered them acceptable for their application and they no doubt found their way into route machines as replacements. They are easy to spot as the lower shafts on those sticks are larger than the original 1/4" shafts. Needless to say, I would avoid the HAPP variety, as I am sure that these have never been updated to the proper grommets.
That said, if these new ones use spring centering as they appear to, I doubt that I could disagree with you more, unless you mean over the incorrect neoprene grommets selected by HAPP or it's customer. I have many joystick options. I'll let you guess which joysticks I use exclusively :)