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Author Topic: 3d Printing buttons?  (Read 2518 times)

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Beretta

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3d Printing buttons?
« on: October 12, 2021, 12:42:45 am »
Alright, in the continuing quest for a translucent concave (happ) style button, I've come to ask my self... why not just make them your self?


Im planing on getting a Ender 3d printer in Nov hoping for BF deals, but currently have no exp with 3d printing i''ll be my first.

Apparently it's possible and I know PLA is one of the cheapest & easiest types to work with and does come in translucent as well.
but I've heard it ages and gets brittle after a couple years.

has anyone printed their own buttons? what filament type? how did they turn out?

I see that Adafruit actually designed a button using neopixels which is what im going to use.. although the results look good it doesn't say what type of filament they used to get those results.. and that button design is not gonna work for me.. but it looks like it's at least technically possible.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/neopixel-arcade-buttons

any thoughts?

I know im not real active here.. sorry about that.. I have had a lot of starts and stops over the years but this last year or so I've been busy slowly working, planning and acquiring materials for my project(s), I promise eventually I will have something to show.

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 04:06:29 am »
Alright, in the continuing quest for a translucent concave (happ) style button, I've come to ask my self... why not just make them your self?
There are lots of fun things you can make with a 3d printer, but in this case, check out Paradise Arcade Shop for a great selection of translucent concave IL buttons that are pretty much the same as those Happ buttons. (IL used to make parts for Happ)
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/collections/il-industrias-lorenzo

Nothing you can print will come anywhere near the quality and finish of those IL buttons.
------------------
Whichever type of LED you choose, make sure you choose a compatible LED controller.

NeoPixels are addressable LEDs wired in series with "+, -, data in/data out" wires, unlike most RGB LEDs that have "+RGB" wires running from the controller to each individual LED.

3-wire NeoPixels:




Typical 4-wire RGB LED button:



Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 07:22:14 am »
3D Printing is one of those technologies that we, as arcade enthusiasts, should keep an eye on.
My suggestion is to start learning a good 3D modeling software and have some piece manufactured. Costs are going down, like they went for PCB printing. You don't need to buy (and maintain) a 3D printer

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 07:37:12 am »



I see that Adafruit actually designed a button using neopixels which is what im going to use.. although the results look good it doesn't say what type of filament they used to get those results.. and that button design is not gonna work for me.. but it looks like it's at least technically possible.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/neopixel-arcade-buttons

any thoughts?

Those buttons aren't 3D printed.  The only 3D printed part is the insert that holds the neopixel.  The way they present it is misleading.  They are Japanese style buttons, so also wouldn't translate to Happ style.

If you did 3D print entire buttons, they'd take multiple hours per button to print and you'd still need to buy switches.  Just buy cheap mass produced injection molded ones.  They ones sold by Paradise Arcade, GroovyGameGear, Focusattack or Ultimarc are decent.

Beretta

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 08:28:33 am »
I wasn't aware the whole thing wasn't printed.. however the point wasn't to print those.. those aren't want I want anyway.

The question I posed was.. designing and printing your own.. how many buttons do I need at any given time that hours or even a few days printing is a issue? which is faster printing a dozen or shipping a dozen?

Obviously if I was going to print them I'd make them the way I want them and not try to retro-fit something already on the market.

I hadn't been over to Ultimarc for a long time but I"ll look..

FA I think just sells the IL translucent right? it's been a while since i been there either.

The IL's will have the right concave feel but the only useful as far as I know is the crystal for RGB.
And if im not mistaken it also has "blinding eyeballs" problem right? I mean that can be fixed with diffusing washers.. Not ideal but..

I talked to randy like 2 years ago about buying out his inventory of electric ice but ran into problems.

Last bath to be produced like.. forever I guess.. and they turned out a little darker and sub-par.. I was stilll willing to risk it
but he did'nt think the WS2812 LED's I was going to use would be bright enough.

he suggested just buying a few for testing.. the problem with that is .. at least at the time there was 2 shipping prices over there.

15.. and 35 iirc, I sure as hell ain't paying 15 bucks shipping to buy just 1 for testing.. and he couldn't tell me at what point 15 turns into 35 (flat rate boxes) (the website says use best judgement) I asked.... well how many will fit in a 15 dollar flat rate.. no answer.. I decided to many if's and butts to go that route.

If I did some how 3d print buttons.. I'd need springs. .an dyes switches but neither of those are very expensive.

I plan to buy at least 100 probably 120 when I do so that kinda add's up with the IL's running around 3.50 at paradise and their shipping calculator is broken.. at least is  in firefox for me.. maybe I'll try chrome later.


Im gonna go check out ultmarc and see what's what.. but ya the IL's are the current leader but... they're not perfect for my needs either.


EDIT: Actually.. the ClassicRGB looks pretty much exactly what im looking for except I don't need the LED it comes with.. does'nt seem to be a option to buy without it.. and dat price.. eesh.. I mean if you was buying a couple okay but a standard 6 x 6 2p setup is gonna run you a little over a 100 bucks not cheap by any means.. suddenly those IL's look like a bargin..

EDIT: 2.. Ya I did'nt see anything other than the IL tarnslucent buttons on FA was there something else?
They're out of stock atm anyway at least the crystal but I like their shipping rates so... if I can't come up with a better option

I guess that's what I"ll go with.. I still have plenty of things to work out before I need the buttons.. It can literally be one of the last things I do.

Im still gonna keep looking into the 3d print thing though.. Im still getting one in nov no matter what cause there are some other things im gonna need it for plus I just been wanting one forever and they've finally gotten good enough cheap enough.

you know I'll have to try printing a button anyway, first maybe a copy of a Happ and then eventually make changes.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 08:58:55 am by Beretta »
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:31:57 pm »
If you are going to try printing a button, I would avoid FDM altogether.  The only real option for excellent surface finish, barring nasty solvents for smoothing, is the resin style of printer.  Unfortunately, resin is not as strong, harder to deal with, more post-processing and if you want them to be tough (you do) then the resin cost would be quite high.  But as far as time goes, if you bought a $1000 monster-sized resin printer, it's possible to make a panel full of buttons in a few runs. They don't care if there's one part or a hundred, the run time will be the same.  Just pray nothing goes wrong, or all that expensive resin is waste.

In general, 3D printing is good for very limited production, prototyping for mass production or producing a one-off of something you have designed and which can't be had elsewhere from better materials.  Everything else is pretty much relegated to the realm of the printing enthusiast and tinkerers.  I think most who buy the printers start out using them for the first things, but will eventually find themselves in the latter category by necessity.   The only other option is to chuck them in the trash when they inevitably break  :lol

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 02:18:56 pm »
In general, 3D printing is good for very limited production, prototyping for mass production or producing a one-off of something you have designed and which can't be had elsewhere from better materials.  Everything else is pretty much relegated to the realm of the printing enthusiast and tinkerers.  I think most who buy the printers start out using them for the first things, but will eventually find themselves in the latter category by necessity.   The only other option is to chuck them in the trash when they inevitably break  :lol

ya that's what one the things I'd worry about is if it handle being a push button.. Im still gonna try it mind you.
I have so many plans for a 3d printer a lot of things I want to make like custom speaker and fan grills.

But anyway I just placed a order for all your remaining electric ice buttons.. I know we had talked before and this was the last run and didn't turn out as well but if they don't pan out I can probably just resell them.

I was going to go with the IL translucent but even with a rather large shipping bill it's still cheaper to go with the ice and that was always my first pick anyway.

It's so hard finding a good concave button that can handle being lit, I hate convex buttons.
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 03:31:15 pm »
a lot of things I want to make like custom speaker and fan grills.
Something like this?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,162796.msg1715230.html#msg1715230




Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2021, 08:24:05 pm »
Alright, in the continuing quest for a translucent concave (happ) style button, I've come to ask my self... why not just make them your self?


Im planing on getting a Ender 3d printer in Nov hoping for BF deals, but currently have no exp with 3d printing i''ll be my first.

Apparently it's possible and I know PLA is one of the cheapest & easiest types to work with and does come in translucent as well.
but I've heard it ages and gets brittle after a couple years.

has anyone printed their own buttons? what filament type? how did they turn out?

I see that Adafruit actually designed a button using neopixels which is what im going to use.. although the results look good it doesn't say what type of filament they used to get those results.. and that button design is not gonna work for me.. but it looks like it's at least technically possible.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/neopixel-arcade-buttons

any thoughts?

I know im not real active here.. sorry about that.. I have had a lot of starts and stops over the years but this last year or so I've been busy slowly working, planning and acquiring materials for my project(s), I promise eventually I will have something to show.

Good luck with that.

Maybe before the third print you might get lucky.

Anything after that is a crap shoot.  Glass beds, several types of adhesives like glue sticks and hair spray or painter's tape all ended up in spaghetti prints.

Ender 3 or 3 Pro is cheap but not very cheerful.  Use PLA.   It would be cheaper to buy your buttons and probably faster too.

Beretta

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2021, 10:40:56 pm »
a lot of things I want to make like custom speaker and fan grills.
Something like this?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,162796.msg1715230.html#msg1715230




Scott

Ya those look pretty cool something like that although I'll be going with a more generic "mame" or big "M"

but yup.. something along those lines.

Im also going to make my marquee (mame) with 3d printing so each letter will have it's own chamber with an addressable RGB led.. I think it'll be more interesting than a static print.

so i'll be able to animate the marquee ... kinda.
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2021, 01:49:10 am »
I have finally had my first direct experience with 3D printing yesterday. I had some buttons manufactured for a synthesizer of mine. Negative experience, in part because of me, in part because of the manufacturer.
A warning: selecting the wrong material will lead to an unuseful object. The material I asked for (bet it: the cheapest plastic) doesn't bend at all. It breaks by looking at it and, in an arcade button, would definitely brake in the microswitch insertion phase. And I am deliberally avoiding to comment the surface finish.
At today we are still in the need for an expert consultance before ordering 3D printer objects, and costs are still prohibitive unfortunately.

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2021, 04:56:53 am »
Ya those look pretty cool something like that although I'll be going with a more generic "mame" or big "M"

but yup.. something along those lines.
These things are pretty easy to make or remix in OpenSCAD into whatever you want.   ;D

Im also going to make my marquee (mame) with 3d printing so each letter will have it's own chamber with an addressable RGB led.. I think it'll be more interesting than a static print.

so i'll be able to animate the marquee ... kinda.
3d printed marquee with animated lighting.

Sounds a bit like Le Chuck's suggestion here.
Found a shot of what I was talking about:



Do that as namco and back lite it like Nep did his Two Headed Beast and you've got yourself a slick marquee at a fraction of the cost and blindingness of neon.


Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2021, 11:24:27 am »
omg is that a cnc wood cutter he's got there.. that would be sweeeet.

I wonder what something like that costs.

the way im picturing it is I will still use plexi for the marquee but im going to have "MAME" logo printed out on the printer with a dept of say... 10mm?

I have some light diffusing sheets (have no idea what you really call them) that I've gotten out of busted LCD TV's (they spread the backlight out evenly behind the screen) that will put on the back so it spreads the LED light out.

im probably going to have to print each letter by it self and then assemble them as the printer im looking at has a max build of like 6x6 I think.
Use white filament and paint the outside of it black so it doesn't bleed between the letters.

so the depth would be on the inside the marquee it self would still have a flat piece of pelxi over it as per normal.

at least that's what im picturing in my head.


I have many ideas for the printer, like a slug mech. which as luck would have it someone has already designed and put up on the net so that'll be a easy one.. probably one of my first prints..

that way I can use what ever coin I want without needing to adjust the coin switch or have special coin mechs
I cam across some namco pacman tokens that I want to use.. but having a hard time finding large quantities of them.. it looks like 2015ish was prime time to stock up on them as they was selling for scrap value of the brass and was plentiful as chain out on the west coast? switched to cards or went out of business.

I'd be interested in a BYOC token run but Santoro told me no one seems to have any interest in that.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 11:29:36 am by Beretta »
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2021, 01:14:09 pm »
omg is that a cnc wood cutter he's got there.. that would be sweeeet.

I wonder what something like that costs.
Depends on the size/power/rigidity/top speed/tools involved.

- Commercial grade CNC machines start around $3500 IIRC.

- Not sure which model Torchmate CNC starcade used to cut that Retroid foam marquee, but it looks like a 4'x4' Torchmate plasma cutter will be around $20k.

- If you want to build your own for around $500, check out either the MPCNC for a < 4'x4' work area (2'x2' recommended) or LowRider2 if you want a 4'x8' work area.
https://www.v1engineering.com/

the way im picturing it is I will still use plexi for the marquee but im going to have "MAME" logo printed out on the printer with a dept of say... 10mm?

I have some light diffusing sheets (have no idea what you really call them) that I've gotten out of busted LCD TV's (they spread the backlight out evenly behind the screen) that will put on the back so it spreads the LED light out.

im probably going to have to print each letter by it self and then assemble them as the printer im looking at has a max build of like 6x6 I think.
Use white filament and paint the outside of it black so it doesn't bleed between the letters.

so the depth would be on the inside the marquee it self would still have a flat piece of pelxi over it as per normal.

at least that's what im picturing in my head.
Instead of printing the letters so they stick out like the milled marquee, how about printing a masking layer where the letters are holes -- think Mission Control panel on the Lunar Lander cab. (see pics in replies 116-119 here)
- The masking layer would be in front of the diffuser material.  Print the mask as separate snap-together pieces.
- Behind the diffuser, put dividers that prevent light bleed from one letter to another.
- Mount the LEDs on a panel behind the dividers.


Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2021, 02:09:45 pm »
- Commercial grade CNC machines start around $3500 IIRC.

Heh.  I guess one would need to define "commercial grade".  True commercial grade machines have spindles which cost more than that. ;)  $3500 might get a good, small tabletop Chinese CNC router.  And then be ready to pony up a bunch more for decent software ($300----$1200 depending on what you want to do).

I wouldn't even consider a CNC router with 3D printed parts.  They might work with small bits and 10x the number of cutting passes as a real machine, but there are probably better options unless working with very soft, free-cutting materials like foam.

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2021, 04:06:31 pm »
I guess one would need to define "commercial grade".
I was thinking about a small inexpensive system that a mid-to-high-end hobbyist or a business that does a little bit of CNC work would consider, not a system designed for mass production.

I wouldn't even consider a CNC router with 3D printed parts.  They might work with small bits and 10x the number of cutting passes as a real machine, but there are probably better options unless working with very soft, free-cutting materials like foam.
MPCNC and LowRider2 are obviously not designed for high-speed/high-volume commercial applications, but they are worth considering for home/hobby use.

Last time I checked, 15mm aluminum plate is a little bit harder than foam.   ;)



Not everyone will get that impressive kind of result from their build, but the design is obviously capable of handling some fairly hard materials.


Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2021, 05:49:33 pm »
Last time I checked, 15mm aluminum plate is a little bit harder than foam.   ;)

Heh.  If you watch the video, he indicates that the chip load is only about .001", which is the thickness of household "heavy duty" aluminum foil.  IOW, special machining strategies are required to even have a chance and it's agonizingly slow.  Also, some of his 3D printed parts are cracking under the stress (per one of his other videos), and he's putting so little stress on the machine that double sticky tape is all that's holding the material.

Definitely have to give him kudos.  It takes a lot of patience, trial and error, along with the associated materials expense to be able to get usable parts from a machine like that.  I've seen others not do as well dialing in the feeds and speeds for aluminum on much better machines.  But they probably weren't willing to wait that long :)

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2021, 08:45:46 pm »
Instead of printing the letters so they stick out like the milled marquee, how about printing a masking layer where the letters are holes -- think Mission Control panel on the Lunar Lander cab. (see pics in replies 116-119 here)
- The masking layer would be in front of the diffuser material.  Print the mask as separate snap-together pieces.
- Behind the diffuser, put dividers that prevent light bleed from one letter to another.
- Mount the LEDs on a panel behind the dividers.


Scott

ya maybe I didn't describe it correctly.. it's going to have a standard piece of plexi like a normal marquee but behind it the letters going to have a depth of say 10-12mm

so it's not going to stick out of the marquee.. or another way of putting it is it's going to be negative space not positive space like the one made of wood.

Or think of like recessed lighting.. except the reflector is the letters with the led at the end of (inside the marquee)

or think of it like a commercial sign except the face is smooth and the depth is behind the plexi.
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2021, 10:30:16 pm »
it's going to have a standard piece of plexi like a normal marquee but behind it the letters going to have a depth of say 10-12mm

so it's not going to stick out of the marquee.. or another way of putting it is it's going to be negative space not positive space like the one made of wood.

Or think of like recessed lighting.. except the reflector is the letters with the led at the end of (inside the marquee)

or think of it like a commercial sign except the face is smooth and the depth is behind the plexi.
Sorry, not quite following the path of the light from the LEDs to the viewer.   :dunno

Do you mean that the LEDs are not facing the front and the light is bounced/reflected forward? (bounce/indirect lighting)

  or

Do you mean that the LEDs are in the back and the light travels forward through the diffuser like this, through a mask layer with letter-shaped holes, through plexi, and to the viewer's eye?
- This was the design I was trying to convey.

The layers would be in this order from front to back:
- Plexi
- 10mm thick mask
- Diffuser material that you mentioned earlier
- Dividers
- LED mount panel

The dividers provide enough distance so the light from the LEDs for one specific letter (you'll need more than one LED per letter) blend together instead of having the LEDs so close that each individual LED is a distinct island of light.

The dividers also keep the light from leaking from one letter to another.


Scott

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 02:27:36 am »
  or

Do you mean that the LEDs are in the back and the light travels forward through the diffuser like this, through a mask layer with letter-shaped holes, through plexi, and to the viewer's eye?
- This was the design I was trying to convey.

The layers would be in this order from front to back:
- Plexi
- 10mm thick mask
- Diffuser material that you mentioned earlier
- Dividers
- LED mount panel

The dividers provide enough distance so the light from the LEDs for one specific letter (you'll need more than one LED per letter) blend together instead of having the LEDs so close that each individual LED is a distinct island of light.

The dividers also keep the light from leaking from one letter to another.

Im not sure what the mask is but ya I think we're on a similar track here.

so eyeballs <- plexi <- 10-12mm deep letters <- diffuser sheet <- led

so standing in front of it the marquee will be flat as usual but depth is all inside.

print with white to give some internal reflection of the light off the sides, paint the Outside of the letters black to avoid bleed thru between them.
I thought about trying to make the entire thing 3d printing but it would simply be too long to do in once piece.. Im not sure how it would look..

The letters in teh logo are fairly simple so I think I can getaway with just doing the letters and then painting the rest of the plexi black on teh inside surface.

im not sure if im going to make some supports to hold the completed "mame" or if im going to glue the completed mame to the plexi and then paint the rest of the plexi (black on the inside)

I mean that's how im envisioning it but it might turn out terrible we'll have to wait and find out.

Originally started as a cost cutting solution.. marquees printed properly cost $$$
I was going to use vinyl wrap (which is like wide tape) to tape up the plexi, then trace the mame logo by hand with a hobby knife, peal off the excess, paint the inside surface of the plexi black, then peal off the "Mame" portion (leaving it clear as it protected from the paint), stick a sheet of diffuse and light it up but then it occurred me to it shouldn't be much more trouble to just try this with a 3d printer and then id be able to change the colors on a per letter basis which might be interesting.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 02:31:04 am by Beretta »
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2021, 04:07:48 am »
omg is that a cnc wood cutter he's got there.. that would be sweeeet.

I wonder what something like that costs.
Depends on the size/power/rigidity/top speed/tools involved.

- Commercial grade CNC machines start around $3500 IIRC.

- Not sure which model Torchmate CNC starcade used to cut that Retroid foam marquee, but it looks like a 4'x4' Torchmate plasma cutter will be around $20k.

- If you want to build your own for around $500, check out either the MPCNC for a < 4'x4' work area (2'x2' recommended) or LowRider2 if you want a 4'x8' work area.
https://www.v1engineering.com/

the way im picturing it is I will still use plexi for the marquee but im going to have "MAME" logo printed out on the printer with a dept of say... 10mm?

I have some light diffusing sheets (have no idea what you really call them) that I've gotten out of busted LCD TV's (they spread the backlight out evenly behind the screen) that will put on the back so it spreads the LED light out.

im probably going to have to print each letter by it self and then assemble them as the printer im looking at has a max build of like 6x6 I think.
Use white filament and paint the outside of it black so it doesn't bleed between the letters.

so the depth would be on the inside the marquee it self would still have a flat piece of pelxi over it as per normal.

at least that's what im picturing in my head.
Instead of printing the letters so they stick out like the milled marquee, how about printing a masking layer where the letters are holes -- think Mission Control panel on the Lunar Lander cab. (see pics in replies 116-119 here)
- The masking layer would be in front of the diffuser material.  Print the mask as separate snap-together pieces.
- Behind the diffuser, put dividers that prevent light bleed from one letter to another.
- Mount the LEDs on a panel behind the dividers.


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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2021, 04:35:28 am »
So I'll chime in here, since I have a CNC shop and a 3D printer farm. You can absolutely print buttons, that will last as long as the store-bought buttons, and make them as strong, with an FDM printer. PLA, PLA+ both are good, easy to print, don't warp, and will be all you need for your buttons. Possibly even PETG, it's a tad bit trickier to print, but strong, and has a little flex to it so it's not like a giant glob of hard plastic under your fingers. It's not the plastic so to speak, that determines the overall strength of a part that comes off of a 3D Printer. It's the technique used when printing the parts that determine that. PLA is brittle, yes, but the key part of this that you're not factoring in, is that it all depends on the environment you are keeping your parts in. Extreme heat? Humidity? Neither of those will be in your control panel, and thus you could print it in any material your heart desires.

As far as technique, resolution, Top/Bottom layers and walls are key. The more walls you have on your print, the stronger it will be. The more bottom and top layers, the stronger the 'seal' will be that ties it all together. The lower the resolution, the better the part will look. I print things that need to be strong, with a minimum of 5 walls. It would take a sledge hammer to break them. Your print will look good at .2 resolution, but .1 or .05 will be almost seamless. Hardly any visible layer lines. AND. Here's the kicker. If it matters so much about those layer lines, then sand it, paint it, then coat it in a 2 part clear epoxy and you'll never know it was 3D Printed. Just some tips and things I've learned over the years that I wanted to share.

If I can help you in anyway along your journey into 3D Printing, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2021, 06:19:44 am »
There is a lot of discussion going on here. He doesn't even have a 3D printer yet.

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2021, 06:59:01 am »
There is a lot of discussion going on here. He doesn't even have a 3D printer yet.

He definitely can't say he didn't know what to expect at least.  :laugh:
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 08:56:43 am »
I seriously think this place should be renamed, TABYOACSMPN.

Talk About Building Your Own Arcade Controls Someday Maybe Probably Not.


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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2021, 11:34:50 am »
He definitely can't say he didn't know what to expect at least.  :laugh:

Well, that's really the crux.  One could make a panel by hand using a chisel, hammer and a couple dozen cases of sandpaper, but should you? There is a lot of false economy in the DIY world.  Sometimes, there are reasons to do something yourself.  And sometimes, it can even save you some money, but that's usually at the cost of your time and aggravation.  DIY projects of any appreciable size start out as fun, but can quickly start to feel like one has taken on a second (or third or fourth) job.  Yes, I realize that this is what we do here, but if one had to make every single component in their cabinet, this place would be far more quiet than it has been over the years and few would have realized their dream.     

3D printing is just silly for a mundane object like an arcade pushbutton.  To make them strong enough, and attractive, the time it would take would be ridiculous, and the result would still be inferior to a relatively inexpensive injection molded button made with proper materials.  One could order buttons, they would arrive on the doorstep and the 3D printer would still be whirring away behind them as they opened the door to retrieve the box.

The same can be said for CNC machine kits.  However, as an owner of a several times upgraded 20 year old ShopBot PRT96, there is a huge benefit to building one of these yourself.  If careful attention is paid during construction, the weak points in the machine will be obvious, and when something goes wrong or the machine isn't performing as one would like, it's not too difficult to isolate the problem and remedy it.     

Understanding the goal of a project and making sane decisions along the way is everything when it comes to making a project enjoyable and the outcome something one can be proud of.  :cheers:

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2021, 11:58:01 am »
Im not sure what the mask is
You missed the quick-and-dirty 3d model render "MAME_M_mask.jpg" attachment on my earlier post?   :duckhunt

The yellow part is the printed part.
- Yellow is the default render color in OpenSCAD, but you can print the part with any color filament.
- The 10mm thick filament blocks light.
- Light passes through the M-shaped hole.
- You can print a large mask in several pieces.
- It's fairly easy to add tabs and slots to the design so you can fit the pieces together.
- You might want to superglue the pieces together, but observe the obligatory CSI warning.   :lol
- When the cab is powered off, the mask is still visible through the plexi.



print with white to give some internal reflection of the light off the sides, paint the Outside of the letters black to avoid bleed thru between them.
This is where our concepts appear to be different.
- In your version the letters are made of filament and the sides of the letters are painted to avoid light bleed.
- In my version the letters are a hole in the filament of the mask and there are dividers behind the diffuser to avoid light bleed.

I thought about trying to make the entire thing 3d printing but it would simply be too long to do in once piece.. Im not sure how it would look..
As mentioned above, you can print pieces that connect using slots and tabs.

You might also want to use some print smoothing epoxy.



The letters in teh logo are fairly simple so I think I can getaway with just doing the letters and then painting the rest of the plexi black on teh inside surface.
You can do that or you can use LED strips to light the rest of the marquee around the logo.

im not sure if im going to make some supports to hold the completed "mame" or if im going to glue the completed mame to the plexi and then paint the rest of the plexi (black on the inside)
You don't want to superglue the logo to the plexi.
- The glue will be visible and it will look bad.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,119165.msg1262521.html#msg1262521


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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2021, 12:40:51 pm »
There is a lot of discussion going on here. He doesn't even have a 3D printer yet.

There is a lot of discussion going on here. He doesn't even have a 3D printer yet.

He definitely can't say he didn't know what to expect at least.  :laugh:

lol no I don't but Im definitely getting one buttons or not cause there's other stuff I want to do with it
I've been wanting one for years just waiting for the quality of the printers to come up and the price to come down and I think that time has come.

I'll definitely  be asking for advise when I get around to trying to design and print a button.
I've got some electric ice on order and if I can mode those it will eliminate the need to print buttons.. but I still want to try at some point

The reason I asked before I have one is because I needed to know if it was viable alternative.. as there are not many options on the market..

near as I can tel you have Randy's Electric ICE which are on their last run and apparently turned out a little sub par on color.

the IL translucent which do not diffuse the light on their own so that's a problem..

and the IL Milky White RGB which apparently sold ove rat ultimarc as the classic RGB
but those things are $8 a pop.. and you don't seem to e able to buy them without the LED already installed.. so that gets mighty expensive.

and instead of using something like a neopixel (a ws2812b on a small PCB) you have to go with something else like a WS2811 if you want to make it addressable, which i do.. cause im using an aldruino and addressable LED's are the easiest to wire needing only a single dataline.

There aren't a lot of options on the market for a concave happy style button sadly.
I mean you can get the light up convex ones dirt cheap but they're built like jap buttons which i hate the feel, even the sanwa buttons feel like garbage both in form and quality, I grew up on concave and that's all i'll accept.

3D printing is just silly for a mundane object like an arcade pushbutton.

It might seem silly.. except there aren't any good options on the market..

You said your self the last production run came out subpar on electric ice and aren't going to have more made.

the IL translucents have no diffusion properties so something needs to be modified there.

the IL milky white rgb buttons look perfect but are almost $9 a pop and dispite the included rgb still requires a chip to maek the existing rgp addressable (for my purpose)

not alot of concave options out there for LED buttons.

im going to retrofit the electric ice buttons which I have a pretty good idea of how I'll do it but if I had to design the button from scratch I might do it a different way. even your Helios solution is not addressable out of the box, would require modification there.

I don't know what everyone is using for their lighting solution but the addressable and cheap ws2812b seems perfect for using with a $2 adrudino which is actually going to be the brain-"Stem" of the operation.. it's going to do FAR more than just cover led control.

You missed the quick-and-dirty 3d model render "MAME_M_mask.jpg" attachment on my earlier post?   :duckhunt
~
You can do that or you can use LED strips to light the rest of the marquee around the logo.

You don't want to superglue the logo to the plexi.
- The glue will be visible and it will look bad.

ah I understand now.. ya that's something like I might use for a button insert or something.

So not quite as wide, shrink the walls around the "M" down to just say 3mm , but ya we're basically on the same page as to how im going to do it.

as for the glue you're right, I was thinking of using hot glue on the back side after the plexi is painted.. I don't think it would show.. I would glue the exterior walls of the letters leaving the letters facing the viewer untouched.. might take some testing.

nothing really set down in stone just yet, I'm sure I'll have to make adjustments nothing ever seems to work perfect the first time :P
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:58:11 pm by Beretta »
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2021, 01:36:23 pm »
You said your self the last production run came out subpar on electric ice and aren't going to have more made.

Everything is relative.  Compared to a 3D printed button, these are amazing.  I'm very particular when I have parts made and when others would have just shrugged and put them into a box, I needed to let others who had already purchased the buttons know that they would not match the earlier production runs. 

But modifications for an existing item, like a custom LED holder, are a perfect use for 3D printing.  That's not what I was referring to.  But I hope you do make a whole button at some point.  I'd love to hear the breakdown in time and cost and see the results (no, not being facetious.  Generally and genuinely curious, but no way I'm doing it  :) )
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 01:42:40 pm by RandyT »

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2021, 02:16:42 pm »
ah I understand now.. ya that's something like I might use for a button insert or something.

So not quite as wide, shrink the walls around the "M" down to just say 3mm , but ya we're basically on the same page as to how im going to do it.
Like I said, it was just a quick and dirty example remixed from OpenSCAD code for the Data East rotary handle top that I made for Howard here.
- You can easily reuse/remix/resize/reposition a vectorized logo on whatever you want.

I figured you'd eventually want a layout closer to this for your marquee -- an oval-shaped mask with a MAME logo-shaped hole.




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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2021, 06:05:33 pm »
Print out whatever is not the problem.

Getting the print to stick to the heated bed without it going all wonky after 10 minutes is.

If it was all so simple as you guys like to say, then why are we still buying button kits off Amazon or China?

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2021, 07:12:33 pm »


why are we still buying button kits off Amazon or China?

Never never not ever.
I got some buttons free as part of a kit with an analog joystick which I wanted to try out.  They are unusable as arcade buttons as far as I am concerned. It's like there are two stages; there is light resistance halfway down, then suddenly more at the bottom where the switch is actually activated.

I may print a button this weekend for ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and giggles.
You could get a decent looking one out of ABS if it were carefully sanded and polished, but the juice ain't worth the squeeze IMO.


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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2021, 11:52:01 am »
i know someone who made buttons using a resin 3d printer and those buttons didnt last. they falling apart too easily. even cheapo $1 buttons which are injection molded are a million times better than 3d printed ones. i dont know if filament 3d printing ones are going to be much better.

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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2021, 12:50:31 am »
Print out whatever is not the problem.

Getting the print to stick to the heated bed without it going all wonky after 10 minutes is.

If it was all so simple as you guys like to say, then why are we still buying button kits off Amazon or China?

Elmer's purple glue sticks as the bed heats up. I have anycubic printers, so it comes with the ultrabase, which I don't have to do anything at all to. PEI sheets will also make your print stick like mad. Just scruff it up with some 320 grit, clean with alcohol and never have another lift again.
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2021, 12:54:40 am »
He definitely can't say he didn't know what to expect at least.  :laugh:

Well, that's really the crux.  One could make a panel by hand using a chisel, hammer and a couple dozen cases of sandpaper, but should you? There is a lot of false economy in the DIY world.  Sometimes, there are reasons to do something yourself.  And sometimes, it can even save you some money, but that's usually at the cost of your time and aggravation.  DIY projects of any appreciable size start out as fun, but can quickly start to feel like one has taken on a second (or third or fourth) job.  Yes, I realize that this is what we do here, but if one had to make every single component in their cabinet, this place would be far more quiet than it has been over the years and few would have realized their dream.     

3D printing is just silly for a mundane object like an arcade pushbutton.  To make them strong enough, and attractive, the time it would take would be ridiculous, and the result would still be inferior to a relatively inexpensive injection molded button made with proper materials.  One could order buttons, they would arrive on the doorstep and the 3D printer would still be whirring away behind them as they opened the door to retrieve the box.

The same can be said for CNC machine kits.  However, as an owner of a several times upgraded 20 year old ShopBot PRT96, there is a huge benefit to building one of these yourself.  If careful attention is paid during construction, the weak points in the machine will be obvious, and when something goes wrong or the machine isn't performing as one would like, it's not too difficult to isolate the problem and remedy it.     

Understanding the goal of a project and making sane decisions along the way is everything when it comes to making a project enjoyable and the outcome something one can be proud of.  :cheers:

Well said!
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Re: 3d Printing buttons?
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2021, 08:17:18 pm »
3d printing is not for making good looking and sturdy objects in multiples.   It's for making a good looking yet fragile prototype (resin printing) or a sturdy yet somewhat rough prototype (additive printing).   Something like a pushbutton can only be done with the proper fit and finish with a low cost via injection molding.   Normally an injection molding machine would be very expensive, but there is a sub $200 diy kit making it's rounds on the interweb.  Also the molds would normally be expensive, but recent attempts of making a mold via an inexpensive resin cast have proven fruitful.   

So get a 3d printer, make a prototype part, use filler primer and sanding to give it a good fit and finish, make a resin cast of the part, build an injection molder and make a bunch of nice copies.   It is completely pointless for a normal pushbutton, but for something more exotic like the vr buttons on sega racers or volcanoes, ect.... yeah it might be a good idea.