Explanations about what’s needed hardware wise

[Sicky]

Hi all.

I was wondering if I could grab some help please.
I’ve been wanting to create my own cabinet for quite some time and now it’s time to take the plung.

I’ve been looking around quite a lot and planning.

There’s a couple of things that I either can’t find or don’t quite understand.

One of the main ones is encoders.
The CP I’m toying with is going to be a 4p
Plus trackball and a spinner.

I’m thinking 8 buttons for players 1 & 2,6 for players 3 & 4.

Plus some admin buttons.
I do want all the buttons and trackball to be RGB.
I’ve been looking at the Ipac ultimate, as I believe this can handle RGB am I going to need 2 of these?

I have big plans, probably waaaay to ambitious but I want it you know lol.

Really appreciate anyone looking at this and going, you’ll need this this and this.

Even for advice I’d be totally grateful


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[PL1]

I have big plans, probably waaaay to ambitious but I want it you know lol.

Glad to see that you have the self-awareness to admit this probability.   

You might find it's a good idea to start with a simple, smaller setup so you can learn your way around the hardware, software, and many sub-skills associated with this hobby (woodworking, painting, wiring, ergonomics, etc.) before you dive into the deep end.

I suggest you carefully work through the design process outlined in the "What type of build meets my needs?" section of the FAQ.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#What_type_of_build_meets_my_needs.3F

There’s a couple of things that I either can’t find or don’t quite understand.

One of the main ones is encoders.

The FAQ has lots of good info on encoders.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Encoders

The CP I’m toying with is going to be a 4p
Plus trackball and a spinner.

Are you sure you will ever use all four player positions on the panel?
- See step 3 of "What type of build meets my needs?"

I’m thinking 8 buttons for players 1 & 2,6 for players 3 & 4.

Why?  For MAME, 6 buttons for P1/P2 (7 if you insist on a 4-button-in-a-row NeoGeo setup) and 4 buttons for P3/P4 should be more than enough for everything on your game list.
- See steps 2 and 4 of "What type of build meets my needs?"

Plus some admin buttons.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Number_of_admin_buttons

I do want all the buttons and trackball to be RGB.

Are you sure the bling is worth the extra effort and expense?


Scott

[javeryh]

Even for advice I’d be totally grateful

I really wouldn't do what you think you want to do.  Really.  PL1 lays it out pretty good and I echo his comments.  Lots of other people here will tell you the same thing.  It's not only too ambitious for a first time build (although who knows maybe you are a whiz at this stuff) it is also going to end up not really doing anything all that well.  It will also be really confusing to everyone except for you.  There's no such thing as an arcade cabinet that plays everything. 

If you build something focused, like a 2P 6-button control panel with a trackball in the middle you will be able to play 95% of arcade games.  I promise you that it is enough.

Good luck - take pics and ask a lot of questions.  People will help if they can.

[nipsmg]

I’m going to completely agree with JaveryH and PL1 but I would go with 7 buttons.
The standard 6 pack and 1 offset and down to the left.  This gets you the standard NeoGeo 4 button layout on the bottom and an offset run button for MK games.

All of this is coming from experience.  I built the 4p panel.  It didn’t get use, confused people, and was overall frustrating.

My smallest cab (current cab) works the best and gets the most use by far.  It’s 2 ServoStiks, 7 buttons, and trackball.  Plays everything I can think of.

The only other suggestion I can give is with the frontend.  It’s definitely cool to have EVERY GAME EVER!! (Tm) on your machine, but I can guarantee it will turn off other people and you.  It’s TOO many choices. Takes too long to find a game.  I HIGHLY suggest having 2 instances of whatever frontend you are going to use.  1 with a curated list of 100 games or so, and the other with everything.  You can poke around in that one and explore whenever you want.  If you find a game you love, add it to the primary instance of your frontend with the curated list.

You will thank me for this one, trust me.

[Sicky]

Thanks peeps,
gonna have a look through all this, im really excited, i know most people will say make something smaller etc, but what a way to test ones non-ability lol.

I dont surpose theres any pinned posts around with hardware comparable bits and bobs?
Ive sort of got my head set on the Ultimarc Magstick Plus, i think the ability to have a switchable 4 to 8 way to me personally sounds awesome.
like i said, im totaly new to this, and getting other peoples opinions experiance is a great way to gage IF somethings going to be suitable or not.

I mean i come from a IT background, so i dont think wiring will be an issue, that being said i am pretty dumb, i have to have something explained to me to grasp it.

I dont want to rush this at all, i absolutely plan on taking my time and doing it bit by bit.
What id really like to do is start a  project post at somepoint, but like everyone says, Dont make it to busy totaly get that, but then the kid part of me is just like yeah but wouldnt it be awesome lol.

Are you sure you will ever use all four player positions on the panel?
- See step 3 of "What type of build meets my needs?"

Deffaintly 3 player,  110% 4 player, probably 20% lol.
This i want to create memories with the kids, having something that will stick with them when they are older,
We do have a modded OG that i made sometimes ago and we play it together and its just awesome, we love it the wife loves it, and i love it, and this cab is like the next part for me.

I’m going to completely agree with JaveryH and PL1 but I would go with 7 buttons.
The standard 6 pack and 1 offset and down to the left.  This gets you the standard NeoGeo 4 button layout on the bottom and an offset run button for MK games.

All of this is coming from experience.  I built the 4p panel.  It didn’t get use, confused people, and was overall frustrating.

Do you happen to have any pictures buddy? id love to see it.

Are you sure the bling is worth the extra effort and expense?

probably not for the trackball, reading through the contents, of the wiki, there isnt really much point in adding this, however i would still like the RGB buttons.

Could i ask another question?
When designing your control panel, how do you guys decide spacing between players?, i guess this is more specifically aimed at the 4p cabs, and the size of the screen.

Do you have any preferences to size of the screen etc.

[EvilNuff]

...i know most people will say make something smaller etc, but what a way to test ones non-ability lol.

I think its not so much because it is ability testing as your first build (or first many builds) you really don't know what will and will not work and what you will and will not like. 

I think it is probably fair to say that most people end up designing if not building a franken-build for their first attempt.  A cab that tries to play everything and ends up a mess.  Start with something small like say a bartop with single 4 way joystick and 2 or 3 buttons.  That plays the majority of the old classics, it gets your feet wet, and lets you see how things work.  Then branch out into other cabinet designs. 

[Sicky]

...i know most people will say make something smaller etc, but what a way to test ones non-ability lol.

I think its not so much because it is ability testing as your first build (or first many builds) you really don't know what will and will not work and what you will and will not like. 

I think it is probably fair to say that most people end up designing if not building a franken-build for their first attempt.  A cab that tries to play everything and ends up a mess.  Start with something small like say a bartop with single 4 way joystick and 2 or 3 buttons.  That plays the majority of the old classics, it gets your feet wet, and lets you see how things work.  Then branch out into other cabinet designs.

Makes sense, i do have a old laptop, that i have laying about, maybe ill make a bartop. i can always use the same parts to build the big boy right. like you said it just gives me a taste on whats possible  and how to do certain things.

[nipsmg]

My first cabinet with the 4p "Aircraft Carrier"


The only (potato quality) image I could find of my 2nd cabinet (GT Fore conversion)


My current panel (with bad offset graphics, still need to fix)


This panel is, BY FAR, the best layout I've ever had.  Simple, compact, usable, user friendly. 

[Sicky]

My first cabinet with the 4p "Aircraft Carrier"


The only (potato quality) image I could find of my 2nd cabinet (GT Fore conversion)


My current panel (with bad offset graphics, still need to fix)


This panel is, BY FAR, the best layout I've ever had.  Simple, compact, usable, user friendly.

They are awesome man,

[vertexguy]

My 2 cents,  go look through lots of project threads in the project announcements sections of the site.  There is an incredible gold mine of valuable information there.  You'll find all different kinds of skill levels, configurations, etc.  Most of the good threads even go so far as to spell out exactly what you're asking about with what parts are needed, tools, different techniques to accomplishing woodworking, painting, laminate, etc.  Then you can get another sense of what you're really signing up for based on the direction you pick.  You should also note the date the thread started and if and when the project was completed.   They can really take a long time.

I agree that whatever front end you choose should have an ability to default to a smaller list of qualified games you know are great.  I plan on having 2 lists, as part of this journey for me is the ability to play games I never knew existed.  I'm sure a LOT of them won't be worth a second play, but I've already found several that are worth another look.

The only other thought on a 4 player CP is to really ask how often you think 3 or 4 people will be on it at once, and whether or not that's worth it for you.  The CP alone is a HUGE part of the total expense for parts.  For some people, a single day a year playing through TMNT may be worth it for them.  You can always accommodate a rare 4p situation with modular controls too.  In the end it's your cab, so think through all the advice and make a good choice for you.  I look forward to seeing your project thread when you get going! 

[KenToad]

My main reason for building a 4 player panel was to be able to play Smash TV and Total Carnage with 2 players.

[Beretta]

I haven't built one yet.. so take this for what you will.. but I have been planing mine for what seem like decades at this point.. okay no it's not an exaggeration actually.

One thing I decided early on however is not to build 1 panel to rule them all.

the track ball, the spinner, I would make seperate panels.. but thats me.. I would cut the other 2 players from 6 to 4.. Im only aware of maybe 2 games that was 4p and used more than 4 buttons.. unless perhaps you want to get some 4player console emulation going.

I'd recommend a more reasonable 8button + 4button setup and ditch the spinner and track ball..

the admin buttons keep that *#$% to a minimum... if you're going for consoles then thats fine give them each a coin button.. then maybe a "mame" button for everything else.

if you're not going for consoles then ditch all the coin buttons.. either install a coin door or at least a "coin" button where the coin door should be there are some good options out there now that look damn good for what they are.

Other wise either put in say 1 yes just 1 button as an admin button.. im assuming you're using mame and you can setup combinations to do pretty much everything.. mame is very flexible that way... so instead of "coin 1 2 3 4" how about "Hold mame button and press down on p1-2-3-4 joystick?)

just an example... also you don't have to put that admin button on the top.. if you have a over hang.. you can always mount it on the bottom where it can still be easy to reach but not distract from the layout..

Decide what's important to you and build your CP for that.

the most popular setup is a 2p with a street fighter layout.. and an 8 way joystick.. and honestly.. it's hard to argue with this setup.. it works well for a great many games.

some will suggest the 7 button layout.. it was actually alrady suggested in this thread.

it's a street fighter layout with a 4th button on the 2nd row.
This work just as well but gives you a NATURAL neogeo layout as well..

There is a trade off here.. you will need a wider panel for that 4th button.. and that's something else to avoid.. cramped quarters..

it's no fun playing when your on top of each other.. so make sure you have the space for this.

"IF" you plan to also include playstation emulation.. AND you're going to go with a 7 button you might as well make it 2 rows of 4
Some will bulk at a console emulator on a arcade cab but some games translate well.. beat'em ups namely.. and there is one game which
I think is pretty decent on PS1 fighting force.

If you're going for a 4 player layout.. f you want to make 1 panel but also want to be able to play games like street fighter, mortal kombat, and killer instinct then a lot of people will do a 4 button layout for p1 and 4 (4p games) and p2&3 get 6-8 buttons for those 2p games

this is probably a good compromise if you don't want to have 2 and 4 player CP's

You might be tempted to just sneak a track ball or 4way in there.. you can.. but Personally.. I wouldn't.. I'd rather plan on having swap-able CP's

There are 4/8way switchable stick that can be shifted from both above and below.. and while I have no experience I've heard they're a exercise in compromise and don't play particularly great for either.

It's ok not to have every single game ever made on 1 arcade machine.

As for encoders.. You can skin that cat so many ways there should be a book about it.
I mean everything from hacked keyboards, to dedicated "arcade" focused encoders, to the cheap zero delay's off Ali and Ebay, to just hacking a cheap USB pad.

Those who sell them like RandyT will probably tell you how their encoder can handle blah blah blah.. and technically it probably IS a superior solution.
It's also a superior cost as well.. and you have to ask that cheap USB pad.. doe sit play okay in your hand? then why wouldn't it hooked up to arcade buttons?

sometimes superior means better and sometimes it just means more expensive.

years ago I'd say hack that pad.. now the zero delays from china are so cheap and no soldering involved that really seems to be the EZ go-to

It also depends on how you intend to do you panel.. will the panel connect to the encoder with a plug so it can be swapped? dedicated on the CP?

If you plan to never swap panels you can just wire it direct and mount it on the cp.. if you plan to use multiple panels now this is where the "expensive" part comes in.. you either have to find a suitable connector you like to use so you can connect/disconnect the panel from the encoder.

OR buy an encoder for each CP and dedicate it to the CP.. then the CP swap just involves plugging it into usb which is easily enough done by running an extension cable (usb) up to easy access for the CP.

Me.. Im still on the fence but leaning towards dedicated on the CP and the reason for that is then the CP becomes something you can drop into a box and use for testing or just using spare CP's with a PC or what ever.. cause it's just USB it's got it's own encoder right? cause you used teh cheap ones right? or a pad or what ever.

Better yet if you end up making multiple arcade units if you keep the CP box the same on all of them you'll be able to swap between systems even.
Imagine you have a 4way 2p panel and you have a vertical and a horz arcade machine.. you could used it on either of them.. probably getting ahead of our selves but it's something to think about for the future if your plans involve more than one project.

The zero delays make a lot of sense, ticks a lot of boxes for not a lot of money..

Although I have about 40 cheap usb snes pads that have terrible d-pads (probably great for playing q-bert ) I got for $1 ea.. eventually they'll be used in something for sure.. but that requires some soldering, not hard but with a zero delay being like 4-5 bucks most will find the convenience worth the money.

hope some of that gibberish was useful.

[KenToad]

Zero delay must refer to the shipping or something.

At my local arcade back in the 90's, the big red Neo Geo had a square layout for the buttons.

AB
CD

I still prefer this layout, especially for fighters. For Samurai Shodown, you can map the 5th and 6th buttons to press the other two simultaneously for the heavy attacks.

All this is to say that I believe the seventh button to be unnecessary.

[javeryh]

I think only Neo Geo fighting games use the 4th button.  Everything else is 3 or less.  So if fighters aren't even your thing then don't add the 4th button.  I hate clutter on a CP.  7 buttons per player is going to lead to a million questions from everyone who plays on it.  Which button does what?  How do I play? Etc.  Instruction cards on a per game basis are somewhat of a solution but no one reads them.  In my experience, most people just want to play Pac-Man.   

[Beretta]

I think only Neo Geo fighting games use the 4th button.  Everything else is 3 or less.  So if fighters aren't even your thing then don't add the 4th button.  I hate clutter on a CP.  7 buttons per player is going to lead to a million questions from everyone who plays on it.  Which button does what?  How do I play? Etc.  Instruction cards on a per game basis are somewhat of a solution but no one reads them.  In my experience, most people just want to play Pac-Man.

I'd put a little sticker that says the layout for neo geo games nearly all of them have "how to play" that explains what the buttons do.. it's usually pretty quick though cause time is money.. but that might help.

that's one reason where I see led buttons as not only decrative but also functional in that im only going to light the buttons that actually do something on a per game basis.

some of the fighters used combo buttons for heavy attacks samurai shodown a good example.

in which case can be made that a 2x3 SF layout works well..

A, B, A+B
C, D, C+D

although on games with only 3 buttons that is correct many did not use all 4.. a more ABC layout would be better.
a Lot of configuring on a per game basis but I always like to checkout the dips and service menu anyway.

Hmm that actually makes me wonder if you can load seperate input files so you'd only need to select different default input layouts on a per game basis.. I hadn't thought of that till just now..

I agree though im a big fan of a clean CP.. if you're going to have playstation emulation on there though you might as well just go for a 2x4 layout which will also cover neogeo native layout.

[Sicky]

Appreciate the help and advise here. Deffo a lot to take on board.

I did start a mock up on sketch up the other day not to dimension though.

Still creating the components lol.


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