Working with a consumer CRT, can I hook it up to an arcade chassis?

[Oxiriarc]

Hello!
I picked up a Sony 1926R for a few bucks some time ago. It's a very nice looking set, but I never used it because it has some quirks (which I imagine are because of wear on some capacitors)
The tube seems to be in good condition but the chassis is absolutely disgusting, and I want to know if I can replace it. I don't know anything about tube swapping, and I am worried about too much experimenting and causing damage.
I'm no electrician, and I'm not very familiar with CRTs, but I've worked inside of a couple CRTs. Could I get some guidance?

I've been developing a small game inspired by those arcade classics we're all familiar with, and it had me wondering if I could build an arcade cabinet for it. This Sony came to mind, and it gave me a bit of hope that I could pull some use out of it.
I would really love to make that happen.
 

[snappleman]

If you're working on a game chances are you'll be outputting 75ohm RGBS and not 1-5v that an arcade chassis expects to see, so your best bet is to clean and repair the TV as is. Wash that chassis and tube with copious amounts of simple green, rinse it with a low pressure hose (hot water in the sink for the chassis works nice too), let it dry outside for a few days, carefully recap it.

If you do insist on going the arcade chassis route, know that some Sony Trinitrons are not compatible as they don't seem to follow CRT tube standards in some important ways. Open the TV up and copy all the info from the sticker (and any markings and stamps in the glass) on the back of the tube. It'll have a tube number and some other info that you can use to research and find out if it's compatible for a swap. Even if it is good, most any chassis you find will need to be rebuilt to some degree which means washing it and recapping at a minimum (you can spend a hefty premium and buy a rebuilt chassis).

As for the basics of a tube swap, the most barebones way to do it is to open your TV and measure the resistance+inductance of the horizontal and vertical windings of the yoke (resistance alone at the very least). Then figure out the CRT socket type, once you have those numbers you can search for a chassis that matches, install it (and also an isolation transformer as most arcades need them), and try your luck at getting a good stable image that doesn't blow something up.

To get a more compatible/safer swap with likely a better picture you should look into a chassis+yoke swap. Get a chassis complete with its matched yoke from the original monitor and start comparing the service manuals between that chassis and your TV. You should match as many things as possible like the high voltage, deflection angle, heater voltage and G1 voltage. The more of those you can match the more perfect the swap. All of this, both methods are assuming you're swapping in a chassis for a tube of the same size. A 25" tube needs a 25" chassis etc.

Now if your TV only has composite or RF input and want a cleaner signal, you can do the cleaning and recapping and then try to RGB mod it. This will give you all the benefits of an arcade monitor but it'll still be a usable TV. I suggest you very thoroughly and carefully read the TV RGB Modding thread over at shmups:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155

It's a very simple process once you understand it, so getting yourself to understand it is a good test to make sure you're ready for it and won't destroy things.

[Zebidee]

You are "no electrician", "not very familiar with CRTs", "don't know about tube swapping" and worried about "experimenting and causing damage". Hmmmmmmm!

Snappleman's advice on tube swapping is good - it depends mostly on matching your tube's neckpin connector and the yoke measurements/characteristics. I've had some success with this using a generic cloned chinese arcade monitor chassis. However quality issues remained (mostly "blooming" as picture brightness changes, faint "jailbars" (faint vertical shadows), voltage regulation). I gave up and put the tube back in the TV, modding it to take component inputs, and using it that way instead! Better results.

For your Sony with the "disgusting" chassis, you could try just giving it a good clean with compressed air (either air compressor or canned air). This may be enough to clear up some of the "quirks".

After cleaning, have a careful look over the chassis for any obvious damage. If you can wield a soldering iron confidently, you could try replacing any old or suspicious electrolytic capacitors.  I also imagine your TV is old and the caps have worked hard (because it is a "disgusting" chassis, electronics attracts dust when turned on). I don't normally recommend cap-kitting (replacing every electrolytic cap) but if you only have one TV to do, it might be simpler than buying a ESR meter to test them individually.

Of course, your TV's "quirks" might be related some something else, and not due to bad caps after all.

Now the next part of your question: If you really want to build an arcade cabinet then you're probably better off looking for either an arcade monitor, or a TV with RGB or component inputs. What inputs does your Sony have? If it doesn't have RGB or component then it might be moddable, but that depends on your confidence with electronics. Follow Snappleman's link for more info!

[snappleman]

I definitely prefer good component video whenever I can get it over modding a TV for RGB, as RGB can be a little high maintenance where as component just tends to work as intended. I did look up that Sony 1926R, looks like it's from 1988 so no component, maybe s-video on it then? S-video looks great too, and in my opinion it's the rose-colored glasses version of "vintage gaming" that people want to remember over the reality of what RF and composite actually looked like.

[Oxiriarc]

I appreciate the advice, when I first got the unit about a year ago, my original idea was to RGB mod it. I had been introduced to the concept of RGB modding from the 8-bit guy.
Unfortunately, I failed to understand a lot of the information on the Shmups board. I decided to ask around, but I wasn't really able to get much help. Most people said it was too old of a model and that I would need to do a mod on the hot part of the chassis, but there is basically no documentation on doing such a thing so not to do it as a beginner.
I was hoping that using arcade chassis might be an easier solution, but it seems it might be too difficult and complex of a task for the project at hand.

I'm not necessarily looking for a major improvement in video quality, RF isn't very great, but in general I just something more consistent and cleaner to manage.
I have a mess of wires connecting an RF modulator to this set, and its a lot more annoying to work with than the plug and play of having component or literally anything else.

I will for sure try to get the current board cleaned and get the caps replaced. I've found it much more difficult to disassemble making it hard to do much of anything on it as of yet, but I have an appropriate space to work on things like this now a days.

Of course, your TV's "quirks" might be related some something else, and not due to bad caps after all.

Well the quirks are things along the lines of, the TV immediately powering on when its plugged in, the volume always being maxed out, the channel being "".
I've tried to ask around in some CRT communities what these might be a result of, and I was mainly just told to recap the board.

[pbj]

Just throw it out and replace with a TV that works properly and has better documentation.

[bobbyb13]

Just throw it out and replace with a TV that works properly and has better documentation.

This-

Apart from an rgb mod, trying to use most Sony TVs is a PITA unless they have component input.

[Zebidee]

Unfortunately, I failed to understand a lot of the information on the Shmups board.

Go back and read again. I also got very confused when I first read that thread. Also, it is over 100 pages of fairly random RGB modding of different sets, so difficult to digest in one sitting.

Most people said it was too old of a model and that I would need to do a mod on the hot part of the chassis,

There is no need to mod anything on the "hot" part of the chassis.

I've been looking at a schematic for the Sony 1926R.

The TV's jungle chip is CX20192. Can't find any datasheet on this chip, but seems to have no video inputs apart from RF. You might have some success injecting RGB via pins 17,18,19 which are the RGB outputs to the neckboard. Probably should use a video amp the RGB as it looks like schematic says it should be ~3.0 to 3.8vpp with a 1.9v average.

You could buy a video amp from Ultimarc or similar. With 75R resistors in series on the RGB outputs and 75R termination (to TV ground) resistors at the TV end, voltages would be about right. You could also try swapping the 75R resistors in series for pots (100-200R range) and precisely dial-in the voltage levels.

Not sure what to do with sync, maybe inject it to the jungle via pin 28 (which I think is where the RF video input normally goes).

I note that the OSD/text support chip on the TV only inputs to the green signal (pin 17), so RGB input via OSD method is not feasible.

Disclaimer: Neckboard RGB mods are a poorly understood method, so not much info out there. I've never done one myself, just throwing ideas out there.

Just throw it out and replace with a TV that works properly and has better documentation.

This-

Apart from an rgb mod, trying to use most Sony TVs is a PITA unless they have component input.

pbj has a talent for stating what everyone else is thinking. You'd have an easier time with another cheap or free TV, or an arcade monitor. If you are planning to showcase a game you are developing, it would be worth it.

[Oxiriarc]

Well, I appreciate the advice.

Go back and read again. I also got very confused when I first read that thread. Also, it is over 100 pages of fairly random RGB modding of different sets, so difficult to digest in one sitting.

I will revisit the Shmups forum, but I'm not sure I will get very far. I just don't have a lot of understanding surrounding the topic at hand.
I kind of wish I could pay someone to give me a detailed explanation of what I could do on my set.

pbj has a talent for stating what everyone else is thinking. You'd have an easier time with another cheap or free TV, or an arcade monitor. If you are planning to showcase a game you are developing, it would be worth it.

I've been looking into this option, but I keep running into the same problems.
- people asking an unreasonable amount of money for it
- seller lives an extreme distance away
- it being a huge 27 - 36" tube (20" or smaller sets seem to be quite scarce where I live.)

I really wish I could get a decent arcade tube, but they are either way out of my budget or very badly burned/not in working condition.

Overall, I think I am just asking for too much with what I have.
For now I'll stick with the Sony, I got it apart, and have been cleaning it up. I've been keeping my eye out for another 20" set I can move on to, hopefully I can luck out at some point and get something that would be easier to work with.

[Zebidee]

I will revisit the Shmups forum, but I'm not sure I will get very far. I just don't have a lot of understanding surrounding the topic at hand.
I kind of wish I could pay someone to give me a detailed explanation of what I could do on my set.

I couldn't really say more than what I already have without actually seeing the TV and circuit board to check things out.

I've been looking into this option, but I keep running into the same problems.
- people asking an unreasonable amount of money for it
- seller lives an extreme distance away
- it being a huge 27 - 36" tube (20" or smaller sets seem to be quite scarce where I live.)

I really wish I could get a decent arcade tube, but they are either way out of my budget or very badly burned/not in working condition.

Overall, I think I am just asking for too much with what I have.
For now I'll stick with the Sony, I got it apart, and have been cleaning it up. I've been keeping my eye out for another 20" set I can move on to, hopefully I can luck out at some point and get something that would be easier to work with.

Yeah, some people are asking for crazy prices for CRTs these days. Add "retro" in the description and an extra digit on the price! But at the same time, people leave them for free on street corners. You have to keep looking, classifieds, junk shops and so on, and get lucky.

Not so long ago I bought up 8 * 20-21" CRT TVs, "new-in-box", for around USD$65 each. Made for Thailand market (which is where I am). They have refurbished tubes and a new Chinese chassis that is easy to mod for component input (input pins are right there on the jungle chips). They work brilliantly with GreenAntz RGB to component transcoders, even better than a cheap arcade chassis.