Converting a pair of Night Driver cockpit cabs to multi

[gojetsgo]

I recently picked up TWO of the old fibreglass Night Driver cabinets.  The cabs are in decent cosmetic shape but the original boards have been removed and replaced with another game (Chase HQ). I absolutely love the look of these machines - totally unique and screams late 70s-era Atari.

I'd like to cover these to a multi-racer with the ability to play linked head to head games. I'd like to mostly keep the original look of these machines, but have some small updates like a few extra buttons on the control panel to allow control of more games, and admin buttons. I'd also like to be able to play the original Night Driver on these cabs through emulsion, to ensure a somewhat authentic and complete experience to the original Night Driver is also possible.

I don't want to get too bogged down in a difficult project (I've done a few standard cabs, but this is my first racer), so I'm thinking of running them off an original Xbox. This would allow easy linking through Xbox system link with some great compatible games (including Outrun 2, Sega GT, PGR, Flat out, etc), as well as the ability to play old classics through Mame (including Night Driver), and a decent front end in coinops/vision (such as with this project:https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/coinopsproject/viewtopic.php?t=2718&amp=1

Steering could be done by wiring in the pots to an encoder, such as Kade.  Alternatively, I can pop in a decent Xbox wheel like the Fanatec Speedster 3.  I'm not sure if that would ruin the look of the cab though - I could get the Atari logo overtop of the Fanatec logo to mitigate that ugliness.  This approach would be the easiest.

Alternatively, I could run the cabs off of a couple of PCs, although I'm a bit scared by this approach as I've never really worked with PCs before (and feel comfortable with using Xboxes).

Happy to hear any opinions on what to run the cabs off of and steering/control options!

[bobbyb13]

Oh, man...

[PL1]

Steering could be done by wiring in the pots to an encoder, such as Kade.

Unless somebody changed out the original steering wheels, they are 360 degree (optical) wheels, not 270 degree (potentiometer) wheels according to pages 25 (quadrature waveforms 1A and 1B) and 59-62 (steering board schematic with LEDs and 2N5777 phototransistors) of the manual here.

The KADE series encoders don't do well with optical controls -- you will almost certainly have problems with backspin.

Much better to use an I-Pac, Mini-Pac, U-HID, OptiWiz, or roll-your-own with a 32u4 series Arduino like the Pro Micro and a firmware like StefanBurger's Illuminated Spinner.

Not sure which encoder/firmware would be the best option to use with OG XBoxes.   


Scott
EDIT: On second thought, these classic cabs are poor candidates for conversion to XBox multi-racers.
- Black and white monitor.
- Microswitch gas pedal.
- Optical steering circuit that might be "active high".

[Howard_Casto]

Oh, man...

^This^   

Those are golden age cabinets man.   Night Driver is pretty much the grand daddy of all racers.... either restore them to their original glory or pass them on to someone who will and use the money you make to buy something more disposable.   

[gojetsgo]

Oh, man...

^This^   

Those are golden age cabinets man.   Night Driver is pretty much the grand daddy of all racers.... either restore them to their original glory or pass them on to someone who will and use the money you make to buy something more disposable.   

I appreciate the feedback. My intention was to have the cabs become cosmetically very close to original,. I already removed a Chase HQ marquee that was screwed to the top. I think the wheel, monitor, and shifter have all been replaced with non-originals too.  Considering the fact that the cabs have been altered so much from  original, would it be such a sin to have the under-the-hood stuff allow it to play more than  just Night Driver? I'm not taking about destroying original stuff that already exists, just updating the already-modified parts.

[gojetsgo]

Steering could be done by wiring in the pots to an encoder, such as Kade.

Unless somebody changed out the original steering wheels, they are 360 degree (optical) wheels, not 270 degree (potentiometer) wheels according to pages 25 (quadrature waveforms 1A and 1B) and 59-62 (steering board schematic with LEDs and 2N5777 phototransistors) of the manual here.

The KADE series encoders don't do well with optical controls -- you will almost certainly have problems with backspin.

Much better to use an I-Pac, Mini-Pac, U-HID, OptiWiz, or roll-your-own with a 32u4 series Arduino like the Pro Micro and a firmware like StefanBurger's Illuminated Spinner.

Not sure which encoder/firmware would be the best option to use with OG XBoxes.   


Scott
EDIT: On second thought, these classic cabs are poor candidates for conversion to XBox multi-racers.
- Black and white monitor.
- Microswitch gas pedal.
- Optical steering circuit that might be "active high".

Thanks for the info. They've got color monitors in them right now. If the steering is original (have to check on that), would opti-pac with a PC be a decent option ( and discarding the Xbox idea)?

[yotsuya]

Ugh….. I can’t watch this.

But I don’t blame the OP. He’s not the one that butchered these Bronze Age beauties. Kudos to you for saving them from a landfill at least. I wish they were going back to their former glory, but what are you going to do?


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[Mike A]

If this continues I will have to bleach my eyes.

It is really sad that people don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about history anymore.

[buttersoft]

This does seem a little unfair, guys. If you're that concerned, ask him to hold off and start spreading the word to game museums or collectors and see if there's anyone willing to make him an offer.

[Mike A]

It isn't unfair.
If he gave a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- he would have done that already.
I care about preserving history.
People that come to my arcade room get to play games they have never seen before in the way they were meant to be played.
Lots of teenagers have never stood in front of a real machine.
It is sad that most young people will never be able to because people keep destroying them.

[gojetsgo]

Guys, I get the sentiment. Please keep in mind that I've had these cabs for less than a week, so it's not like I've had much opportunity to restore them, beyond taking off the ugly Chase HQ marquee and wiping years of crud off the fibreglass.

I have no intention of "destroying" these cabs. If they had the original boards, monitor, shifter, etc, I'd certainly keep them completely untouched. And I will not put a single new hole in these fibreglass cabs.

But I think it's fair to explore what can be done with these. I'd love to have something close to the original experience available to those who play it. I'll look into getting original boards. I think a dual purpose cab under the hood that allows them to play additional games is also reasonable and will still allow them to be fully restored to original in the future.
 

[bobbyb13]

It would be excellent for you to keep what is left of them as original and try to work within that paradigm.

I will say that apart from a scratch build Star Wars cockpit or an environmental DOT, a multi-game driving cab has to be the most challenging of builds.

Ironically, using those as a jump off point may make it even more time consuming and/or difficult to get what you want really.

There are some truly amazing builds of driving cabs recorded here.
Start digging.
If you have build skills already then you may discover that these are best used as a 3D template for dimensions for what you will really enjoy.

In the meantime that leaves the possibility for someone to appear who will buy them from you to restore them.

It's amazing there is one of those left in the world.
Never mind two of them.

[Mike A]

Keeping those cabs restorable will save me from a premature heart attack. Thank you.

I have seen too much unnecessary carnage, it prompts extreme reactions from me.

[PL1]

If the steering is original (have to check on that), would opti-pac with a PC be a decent option ( and discarding the Xbox idea)?

I didn't mention Opti-Pac because it only handles optical inputs and mouse buttons.  That applies to the OptiWiz, too.

Check out the "How many encoder inputs do I need for my control panel?" entry in the FAQ and make a specific list of what controls and how many of each type of input you're working with.   

Once you know what controls you have, you can build a list of games that will work well with those controls and select the right encoder(s) for your application. (See "What type of build meets my needs?")

AFAIK PCs are used far more often than XBoxes for driving cabs.


Scott

[baritonomarchetto]

I think that as far as you keep what is left of the original cab in its place, you can think at converting it. Putting there a b&w monitor and expensive original board for the sake of "preventing its story" is not necessarily the best approach.
I think you are aware that as far as you keep your modifications reversible, you are good to go.
That being said, you should start by evaluating what you actually have in hand: what type of monitor, what type of wheel, pedals and so on. As a function of that there are various different eays is front of you

Guys, I get the sentiment. Please keep in mind that I've had these cabs for less than a week, so it's not like I've had much opportunity to restore them, beyond taking off the ugly Chase HQ marquee and wiping years of crud off the fibreglass.

I have no intention of "destroying" these cabs. If they had the original boards, monitor, shifter, etc, I'd certainly keep them completely untouched. And I will not put a single new hole in these fibreglass cabs.

But I think it's fair to explore what can be done with these. I'd love to have something close to the original experience available to those who play it. I'll look into getting original boards. I think a dual purpose cab under the hood that allows them to play additional games is also reasonable and will still allow them to be fully restored to original in the future.

[yotsuya]

Guys, I get the sentiment. Please keep in mind that I've had these cabs for less than a week, so it's not like I've had much opportunity to restore them, beyond taking off the ugly Chase HQ marquee and wiping years of crud off the fibreglass.

I have no intention of "destroying" these cabs. If they had the original boards, monitor, shifter, etc, I'd certainly keep them completely untouched. And I will not put a single new hole in these fibreglass cabs.

But I think it's fair to explore what can be done with these. I'd love to have something close to the original experience available to those who play it. I'll look into getting original boards. I think a dual purpose cab under the hood that allows them to play additional games is also reasonable and will still allow them to be fully restored to original in the future.

Like I said, I get you, I don’t blame you one bit. Night Driver is one of my favorite games, I love the original cabinet. But in the state you’ve gotten them in, they’re probably way too far gone. You’d have to source b&w monitors and boards for both, plus if any of the original controls or faceplates are gone there’s no way you’d be able to get them back. It’s just such an old machine and replace some parts are next to unattainable. You are really in kind of a no-win situation.

So again, I in no way shape or form blame you for what happened to them, and I commend you for trying to keep them original while making them functional in someway. I know a lot of us like to see machines in their original form, but I can’t blame this OP for doing what he can do with them. It’s not like it’s a regular cab where you can throw in a JAMMA harness and board and at least make it playable.

Just one bit of advice, if you want it… If you are planning to eventually get rid of one, I would strip off all the added stuff, and just sell it as a Night Driver parts machine. I think there’s more value into that as a collector as opposed to a conversion machine.

Good luck, my friend!


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[gojetsgo]

Thanks for the input. I will certainly heed the advice and keep any changes reversible. 

Thinking about this project, here are my goals, which I hope to be attainable:
1- finish with something fairly close to the look of The original cabs
2- will heed the advice of many and keep changes reversible - this is pretty straightforward, since none of the original components (monitor, wheel, shifter, pedals, boards) are original. Will keep the fibreglass without any new holes (there are some from previous owners).
3-have the ability to play Night Driver through emulation - this is a must
4 -  to be able to play additional racing games. Since I have 2 of these cabs, I'd love to be able to play at least one or two games head to head over LAN.

I'm concerned that Goals #3 and 4 might be a bit incompatible, since Night Driver is a 360 optical wheel game, and I believe any games that allow head to head LAN racing (on whatever platform) use 270° pot wheels (outrun 2, Daytona, Sega rally), etc.  I'm reading through the various driving cabs threads to figure out the best course of action here. Can Night Driver with fine with a 270 wheel in Mame? Or can some LAN-compatible games run ok with an optical wheel? I think the answer may be yes for both, but I'm not sure just yet what the ideal path forward yet.

[gojetsgo]

As far as what I'm working with:

Monitors: 19" colour WG. The original Night Driver used 23" b/w which I guess are nearly impossible to find. It would be nice to get larger monitors into these cabs - something closer to the original 23". The monitors in them aren't perfect either, a bit of burn-in. Replacement would be nice, but not immediately necessary.

Shifters: 2 position high-low with turbo button. Changing to a 4 position shifter would be necessary to properly play the original game and be more versatile for other games

Wheels: it appears one is a 270 and one is a 360. Will need to decide which way to go on that front (see previous post)

[bobbyb13]

Check a list of 270 games vs 360 ones to see where you stand (or... sit?!) 
I think you will want to opt for 270 ones (at the unfortunately necessary expense of not playing Night Driver)- certainly as regards to linking machines.

I can say from having one that the Rush series of games is pretty bad ass and can be linked for similultaneous multiplayer.
Mike A has a rack of linked drivers of another sort so maybe he can comment on his experience with his.

Between Scott and Howard's wisdom you could sort out whatever shifter config you choose- and that is a rabbithole of its own- so beware.

Nipsmg here is working on pretty mindblowing mods to a driver too so be sure to look that up.

With those molded shells you have there you might be surprised what can be accomplished with tinted epoxy and woven fiberglass in regard to filling holes/repairing cracks/replacing missing bits etc.

Good to hear you are committed to preserving/restoring those.

Research until you can't stand it anymore until you start doing anything!