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Author Topic: Initial D cabinet conversion  (Read 7334 times)

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cr81

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Initial D cabinet conversion
« on: August 03, 2021, 09:42:24 am »
HI All,

  I just recently picked up an inital D cabinet with failing GDROM.  Rather than try to nurse the naomi 2 hardware I'm considering removing the naomi system and replacing it with a PC, I have a few questions.  I want
  to be able to play crazy taxi, outrun 2, intial D and maybe sega rally 3.  I also do want to keep the cab looking(but only looking) stock as far as the steering wheel and shifter and pedals. 
 
    First question, the wheel and force feedback.  As I said I would like to keep the cabinet looking stock.  Can I rewire the existing wheel to work with ffb and mame/demul.  from what I could read I couldn't so what's
    the best thing to swap it out with.  Would it be a good idea to take a thrustmaster csl direct drive motor and put it behind the wheel then get a stock looking steering wheel? 

   Second question is what's the best emulator front end also I'm not opposed to putting a console in the cabinet, is that a thing?

Thanks

nipsmg

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2021, 09:40:39 am »
I'm assuming the cabinet (as it stands) has force feedback.  If so, this should definitely be doable. 

First, can you identify the motor?  That will help greatly.

Once you've done that, you can definitely wire everything up without FFB using only an arduino mega.  If you want FFB, I'd HIGHLy recommend a PWM2M2/PWM2HAPP board from Aganyte.  Basically, you wire it up to your mega, hook up power to the board, and hook the motor into the board..... and that's it.

If not, can you get me any info you can about the cab?  (Details, manuals, serial number, version, etc) -- depending on the layout / spacing /etc you may be able to mount an arcade FFB motor there (seomthing like this): https://www.ebay.com/itm/154438625306?hash=item23f542681a:g:9bIAAOSw4p5gkFwY

The FFB out of an arcade wheel will be WAY better than a Logitech wheel.

For a frontend, I love LaunchBox.  I created a driving theme which is wheel/pedal controlled and is awesome.  Need a little more work on it but i love it as it.  Am going to release it soon.



I'm happy to help with whatever I can.

----

Just be warned... the hardware is like 10% of it, the software setup / dialing in FFB per game / configuration is like 90% of the effort.  It's a pain int he ass but is worth it once it's all dialed in, nothing like it.



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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2021, 02:49:49 pm »
and you can sell me the Naomi hardware too
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

buttersoft

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2021, 09:26:19 pm »
Nipsmg is right about the FFB, you should be able to use the existing hardware. Look into the PWM2Happ option, and there's also MMOS. And also about the soft setup being 90% of the work. And to that end...

Naomi ID1/2/3 cabs had 31kHz CRT's in them originally, didn't they? Are you able to confirm a model number? You say you want to keep things original, including the CRT?

I ask, as setting up for and protecting that CRT is another consideration. Personally i love a CRT, even for newer arcade driving games meant for LCD like ID6, IDzero, SR3, Grid Arcade, etc. It just feels so much cooler  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm running a pair of identical 15kHz CRTs for my side by side setup, but they're PVM-2730's not arcade monitors, so i can get an 800x600@50i mode going and run games on that with v-sync off and RTSS to throttle them to 60Hz. Even at 31kHz an Arcade monitor might not be as flexible and might limit you when running Teknoparrot games.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 10:42:41 pm by buttersoft »

cr81

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2021, 08:10:04 pm »
I'm assuming the cabinet (as it stands) has force feedback.  If so, this should definitely be doable. 

First, can you identify the motor?  That will help greatly.

Once you've done that, you can definitely wire everything up without FFB using only an arduino mega.  If you want FFB, I'd HIGHLy recommend a PWM2M2/PWM2HAPP board from Aganyte.  Basically, you wire it up to your mega, hook up power to the board, and hook the motor into the board..... and that's it.



Ok so the part number for the motor is listed as 350-5448-01  servo motor 500W.  I was not able to find any other info on the motor other than a thread from 2010 claiming that this motor could not be connected to a pc and that maybe the motor is also used in sega super gt racing cabinets. 
The cabinet appears to be half of an inital D stage 3.  Im assuming  it was the slave as it has no power switch. 

The only markings on the motor are 43bfsg

Nipsmg is right about the FFB, you should be able to use the existing hardware. Look into the PWM2Happ option, and there's also MMOS. And also about the soft setup being 90% of the work. And to that end...

Naomi ID1/2/3 cabs had 31kHz CRT's in them originally, didn't they? Are you able to confirm a model number? You say you want to keep things original, including the CRT?

I ask, as setting up for and protecting that CRT is another consideration. Personally i love a CRT, even for newer arcade driving games meant for LCD like ID6, IDzero, SR3, Grid Arcade, etc. It just feels so much cooler  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm running a pair of identical 15kHz CRTs for my side by side setup, but they're PVM-2730's not arcade monitors, so i can get an 800x600@50i mode going and run games on that with v-sync off and RTSS to throttle them to 60Hz. Even at 31kHz an Arcade monitor might not be as flexible and might limit you when running Teknoparrot games.

Yeah I have a 31k sanwa monitor.  I'm torn between ripping it out and putting a 32" lcd in there,  Maybe ill do that a little later down the line.  Im assuming chihiro naomi and triforce games all run at 31khz right and should be no problem  right?

and you can sell me the Naomi hardware too

STAY TUNED!!

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2021, 09:42:25 pm »
I hate to say this but most of your arcade racers don't hold up.   You've got a handful, mostly sega stuff and that's it.  So this is just my opinion but if you want to get the most out of your cabinet you really want to run some modern pc (or pc-based) racers on there.   crts are acceptable for that, but when you can output 4k and beyond for modern games an lcd looks more appealing, depending upon what you want to run. 

cr81

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2021, 04:03:43 am »
Trying not  to go too far down the rabbit hole on this one honestly led/lcd screen + pc + wheel nearly 1k right. 

buttersoft

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2021, 06:16:27 am »
Yeah I have a 31k sanwa monitor.  I'm torn between ripping it out and putting a 32" lcd in there,  Maybe ill do that a little later down the line.  Im assuming chihiro naomi and triforce games all run at 31khz right and should be no problem  right?

I hate to say this but most of your arcade racers don't hold up.   You've got a handful, mostly sega stuff and that's it.  So this is just my opinion but if you want to get the most out of your cabinet you really want to run some modern pc (or pc-based) racers on there.   crts are acceptable for that, but when you can output 4k and beyond for modern games an lcd looks more appealing, depending upon what you want to run.

All is not lost, there’s a fair few games he’s leaving out. And some of us prefer Arcade over sim anyway  That said, keeping the CRT would be a labour of love - it always is.

So, assuming a dedicated ID3 naomi cab would come with a fixed 31kHz CRT monitor with a VGA plug, that limits you to 640x480@60p. That’s as low as stock windows goes, which is great, but  the problem will be when programs suddenly decide to use different, higher-res video modes. You could use something like crt_emudriver to prevent that, or I think something like ToastyX’s CRU would be easier. That last should let you define the EDID of your monitor even if it doesn’t have one. It might be easiest to set that up with an LCD plugged into digital port, and the CRT not plugged in at all until it’s set up right. And you could probably create a 720x480p mode in it or whatever and push the timings off the sides so you're only seeing the middle of a widescreen game, to stop it compressing 16:9 into 4:3.

Linedoubling would probably look alright on that screen, and that 3D games are fine to scale anyway, minus the HUD/ So, games you’ll be able to run happily at 480p would include: MAME. Model2. Model3. Naomi. Maybe OR2SPSDX on Teknoparrot (with a bit of work to scale the display right)… and I’ll add more as I think of them.

Other games might be more work, and some hud elements might look bad or be unreadable. You can probably try a 640x480 windowed mode and use RTSS to framelimit Lindbergh games like ID5. (with, say, and autohotkey script to go borderless fullscreen.) And the same might work for ID6/7/8. And most of the other Teknoparrot titles as well. Some definitely won’t go below 800x600 no matter what, like BG4 Tuned, but you won’t know until you try a lot of them.

Middle-0aged PC racing games like Grid, Grid2, Dirt1,2,3, Richard Burnss Rally and more, will all probably run. The HUD might be barely illegible, but the games still look ok and play well.

If by some miracle that Sanwa 31kHz monitor will do 800x600@50p or even 576@50p, things work a lot better. I doubt it will tho.

May I ask how you would be running Chihiro? I only know about CXBXR, and that’s not running perfectly AFAIK. And didn’t the Dolphin guys put aside Triforce a few years back, before it was fully working?

« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 09:01:20 pm by buttersoft »

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2021, 01:49:44 pm »
Oh I'm talking about arcade racers, not sims.  Many of the best are modern pc games.   

cr81

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2021, 07:57:26 pm »
Hmmm....So I just assumed that chihiro emulation would be further along.....Looks like I was wrong.  That def changes things a bit.  Since I will be keeping my 31k crt it seems like the best solution would be abandon the emulation idea and just buy a chihiro and swap them in and out.

also buttersoft what is mmos?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 07:59:41 pm by cr81 »

buttersoft

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2021, 08:52:05 pm »
Oh I'm talking about arcade racers, not sims.  Many of the best are modern pc games.

Really? I'm in the dark there, but definitely interested. Can you name some titles?

Hmmm....So I just assumed that chihiro emulation would be further along.....Looks like I was wrong.  That def changes things a bit.  Since I will be keeping my 31k crt it seems like the best solution would be abandon the emulation idea and just buy a chihiro and swap them in and out.

also buttersoft what is mmos?

MMOS is an FFB wheel project. I think the project home is here - https://forum.virtualracing.org/threads/diy-usb-force-feedback-controller.92420/ but you might want google translate. MMOS is meant to be better than the arduino-based FFB setups out there as it uses a more powerful but more expensive STM32 dev board, but it might be harder to work with as well.

What Chihiro games do you need? If it's just OR2 you're talking about, Teknoparrot will run OR2SPSDX at 480p (which was on Lindbergh, technically), and then there's the PC version of OR2 Coast to Coast. With Howard's awesome FXT mod OR2C2C is great. So a PC outputting to that CRT would give you more options than a dedicated Chihiro or Naomi setup, if not as many as you get by changing to an LCD.

Apologies if i'm not being clear about some things. I'm happy to answer questions, remembering that other people are suggesting viable options as well :)

cr81

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2021, 10:39:50 am »
Thanks buttersoft.  I think I'm better off buying a chihiro, I never considered that the system might not be emulated.  I want to try wangan max tune, crazy taxi high roller and of course outrun.  But If i go with emulation then the question is will I have ffb with my current hardware, Things are not looking good on that front. 

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2021, 04:37:22 pm »
Have you considered Playstation hardware?  There might be some retro racing game options out there?  I know PS2 has Ferrari F355 and Crazy Taxi.  Could run some of those on the backward compatible PS3.

Not a full arcade feel, but playability may be good.  I'm working a racing twin with PS3s and Gran Turismo 5 that's working well.

Just a thought.

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2021, 04:01:24 am »
Personally I'd put a 32" 1080p screen in it along with a entry gaming range PC (I have i5 6500 and GTX970) and try to get the original controls working . That way you can enjoy a lot of newer stuff like Dirt and Asseto Corsa as well as the arcade racers.

I ran my cabinet with CRT till the flyback went and then junked it for a HD screen. Glad I did. So much more versatile.

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Re: Initial D cabinet conversion
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2022, 03:09:02 am »
nipsmg - How in the world did you get launchbox to play nice with vjoy to
control launchbox?  I can't get my wheel to control the frontend.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 03:14:38 am by lee_stow »