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Author Topic: The magical Pi  (Read 9528 times)

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Vocalitus

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The magical Pi
« on: June 12, 2021, 07:08:38 pm »
I have a magical Pi3 inside a 1Up counter cade v2 that likes to power up all by itself several times a day and quite randomly too.

Wi-fi is on but I cannot see any wake from LAN being the reason.  Its totally powered via USB via the UPS Brick.

I can power it off from the 1Up power switch, but it is almost like its haunted.

It is a Ms. Pacman so there are some ghosts about.  Boo.   :lol

Any ideas?

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2021, 07:22:05 pm »
They lag horribly, throw it in the trash.

Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2021, 08:05:59 pm »
Don't throw it in the trash, put it to better use, like as a home security camera monitor. Pi's suck for arcades, get one of these instead: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093YD6LM9

Countercade ya say?? I have a video for that.


Vocalitus

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2021, 11:49:51 am »
I was going to add a Lenovo M73 inside it but it is slightly too big.

The Pi plays everything full speed with no lag, including laserdisc games.

It keeps waking up at the most strangest times.  :dunno

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2021, 03:12:29 pm »
The Pi plays everything full speed with no lag, including laserdisc games.
  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Guarantee you it doesn't. Maybe the SCREEN looks like it's not lagging, but your fire press/joystick response isn't. No way you'll convince me otherwise. NOBODY has a Pi that isn't like that, even with the best overclock.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 03:14:43 pm by Phreakwars »

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2021, 07:59:01 am »
The Pi plays everything full speed with no lag, including laserdisc games.
  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Guarantee you it doesn't. Maybe the SCREEN looks like it's not lagging, but your fire press/joystick response isn't. No way you'll convince me otherwise. NOBODY has a Pi that isn't like that, even with the best overclock.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but my Raspberry Pi 4 loaded with the image I provide runs the MAME Roms that I cheerish at 100% speed with NO LAG whatsoever. I'm used to play an arcade game called Gun.Smoke and I can assure you that the game is rendered PERFECTLY on all fronts. Many many other games plays PERFECTLY too with no lag, nor input lag.
Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

pbj

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2021, 10:02:15 am »
I watched your YouTube video (we have the same couch) and I'm curious if you still get that kind of performance using a front end?


Vocalitus

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 10:03:13 am »
The Pi plays everything full speed with no lag, including laserdisc games.
  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Guarantee you it doesn't. Maybe the SCREEN looks like it's not lagging, but your fire press/joystick response isn't. No way you'll convince me otherwise. NOBODY has a Pi that isn't like that, even with the best overclock.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but my Raspberry Pi 4 loaded with the image I provide runs the MAME Roms that I cheerish at 100% speed with NO LAG whatsoever. I'm used to play an arcade game called Gun.Smoke and I can assure you that the game is rendered PERFECTLY on all fronts. Many many other games plays PERFECTLY too with no lag, nor input lag.


I only play a few arcade games, but the Atari ST and Amiga emulation on the Pi is pretty good (not perfect). 

Daphne has a bug on the controller I use so I have to use the keyboard or Xbox controller, but it runs flawlessly. 

The Pi3 is fine (as I had it in a cabinet previously) but keeps powering on at the most odd times. 

I am putting the blame on the USB charger that I purchased from Amazon.  It must be fluctuating the power and tripping the pi to power up.

I might have to move to the Pi4.  :)

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2021, 10:42:59 am »
I watched your YouTube video (we have the same couch) and I'm curious if you still get that kind of performance using a front end?

Here is an Excel file with some of the ROMs I tested very recently with MAME 0.232 with a 5 minutes MAME benchmark (mame -bench 300 <romname>):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GFAwJcUUurB6I3yl0wmWMoz52rd6mgEe/view?usp=sharing

The file provide the Average Speed in percentage. For a ROM to play at full speed, worst case you need 200% Average Speed (with fluctuations in CPU consumption) and others will run fine at 100% if the CPU consumed by the emulation is stable.

I tested with Attract Mode and AdvanceMENU front-ends and the performance is exactly the same as if I use the MAME GUI.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:59:42 am by bbegin »
Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

Grasshopper

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2021, 11:27:43 am »
Yep. Anyone who claims that a Pi can't handle these old games is at least 5 years out of date. A Pi4 will comfortably run everything up to and including Dreamcast at full speed.
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Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2021, 11:41:34 am »
SUUURRRREEEE It will.  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Show me a Video of Killer Instinct running full speed in MAME on a Pi4.

 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

EDIT: How bout Ridge Racer, NFL Blitz? I could go on and on. And that's just MAME. Don't even try feeding me a line about how great Pi's are, you'll only convince yourself.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 11:57:16 am by Phreakwars »

Zebidee

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2021, 11:58:40 am »
Running games at 100% <> "no lag". These are different things.

Lag is caused by lots of things, and most of them have nothing to do with emulation speed.

For example, there is a lag from when your game outputs a frame, to when you see it on your display. This is one kind of lag. This is why people get fussy about their DACs (Digital Analog Converters) and monitors (CRT for the win).

Another kind of lag is from when you push a button to your avatar reacting. This is where people get fussy about their control encoders.

I have no special opinion about Pi one way or the other, just saying you can't equate 100% game speed to "no lag", these are different things.
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Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2021, 12:11:17 pm »
That's why I said, the screen might look OK, but for sure there is lag in the controls, no 2 ways about it. The response time just isn't there. This is the #1 reason I don't use Pi's for arcades. They just don't have the CPU power, even after overclocking the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of it, to handle the response time. Doesn't matter which encoder you try or even if you use GPIO. The Pi has just not progressed that far yet, period.

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2021, 12:19:34 pm »
That's why I said, the screen might look OK, but for sure there is lag in the controls, no 2 ways about it. The response time just isn't there. This is the #1 reason I don't use Pi's for arcades. They just don't have the CPU power, even after overclocking the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of it, to handle the response time. Doesn't matter which encoder you try or even if you use GPIO. The Pi has just not progressed that far yet, period.

From my experience, I notice no input lag from the games I play on a Raspberry Pi 4 versus the same game on a PC.

You may just be outdated over Raspberry Pi's. Have you tried/tested the 4th generation (Pi 4) yet?
Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2021, 12:29:48 pm »
Dude, I have literally over half a dozen Pi 4's here at the house. I use the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of them. If you are going by "your experience", then clearly you don't play any demanding titles.

edit: again... KILLER INSTINCT, RIDGE RACERS, lets see it. FPS showing, pretty easy to record on OBS.

So yeah, convince someone else.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 12:31:50 pm by Phreakwars »

Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2021, 12:46:05 pm »
See, here's the thing, I REALLY, REALLY wanted to get into doing Pi arcade's, you look in the archives and you'll find many posts where I was an early adopter to Pi's and have done many projects with them. Hell, I was the guy who rewrote the Carbon theme to vertical and shared it with the Retropie forums, where it has branched off into other vertical themes. I've coded on the Pi4, have done plenty of other projects with them, some on YouTube, but after using them, playing with them, overclocking them, yeah.. they just don't do it for me any more. Don't get me wrong, I like them, just not for arcades. Give me a Mini PC any day. Hell, give me an old Pentium 4 setup with 512 megs of ram over that Pi4. They simply are not the wonderful SBC's that people want to make them out to be. Give it a few years, I'm sure this will change. I'm actually 100% sure it will, but not now.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 12:49:25 pm by Phreakwars »

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2021, 12:47:17 pm »
Dude, I have literally over half a dozen Pi 4's here at the house. I use the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of them. If you are going by "your experience", then clearly you don't play any demanding titles.

edit: again... KILLER INSTINCT, RIDGE RACERS, lets see it. FPS showing, pretty easy to record on OBS.

So yeah, convince someone else.

I never said the Pi 4 can emulate ALL the arcade games at full speed. The games you suggest are too demanding in terms of CPU power for the emulation to be at full speed.

The great news is that the Raspberry Pi 4 can emulate perfectly fine A LOT of 80's and 90's games and some 2000's games as well (depends of the emulated arcade platforms).

Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2021, 12:52:14 pm »
Dude, I have literally over half a dozen Pi 4's here at the house. I use the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of them. If you are going by "your experience", then clearly you don't play any demanding titles.

edit: again... KILLER INSTINCT, RIDGE RACERS, lets see it. FPS showing, pretty easy to record on OBS.

So yeah, convince someone else.

I never said the Pi 4 can emulate ALL the arcade games at full speed. The games you suggest are too demanding in terms of CPU power for the emulation to be at full speed.

The great news is that the Raspberry Pi 4 can emulate perfectly fine A LOT of 80's and 90's games and some 2000's games as well (depends of the emulated arcade platforms).
Well, at least you got to the first step of conceding.. Yeah, maybe not THAT great huh? Perfect for Dig Dug though, and maybe Street Fighter II if you don't mind the slow button response.

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2021, 12:57:17 pm »
Dude, I have literally over half a dozen Pi 4's here at the house. I use the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of them. If you are going by "your experience", then clearly you don't play any demanding titles.

edit: again... KILLER INSTINCT, RIDGE RACERS, lets see it. FPS showing, pretty easy to record on OBS.

So yeah, convince someone else.

I never said the Pi 4 can emulate ALL the arcade games at full speed. The games you suggest are too demanding in terms of CPU power for the emulation to be at full speed.

The great news is that the Raspberry Pi 4 can emulate perfectly fine A LOT of 80's and 90's games and some 2000's games as well (depends of the emulated arcade platforms).
Well, at least you got to the first step of conceding.. Yeah, maybe not THAT great huh? Perfect for Dig Dug though, and maybe Street Fighter II if you don't mind the slow button response.

Hey dude, I'm not at war with you, cool down a little bit.

The Raspberry Pi 4 is a great system for pretty much all 80's games, many 90's games (like DonPachi) and some very complex 2000's games (like EspGaluda,  DoDonPachi and others).

Have fun!
Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

Phreakwars

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2021, 01:12:52 pm »
At war? Don't know where you are getting that idea from. I'm just stating what has been known all along about them. You can either accept the consensus and documented proof as done by myself, several YouTuber's like ETA Prime, and many others in the retropie forums, or you can believe what you want to believe even if proof contradicts it. It's a free world.

bbegin

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2021, 02:00:31 pm »
At war? Don't know where you are getting that idea from. I'm just stating what has been known all along about them. You can either accept the consensus and documented proof as done by myself, several YouTuber's like ETA Prime, and many others in the retropie forums, or you can believe what you want to believe even if proof contradicts it. It's a free world.

I don't think there is any "consensus" at all over the usages of a Raspberry Pi 4 in an arcade cabinet. It all depends of your needs. You seems to appreciate demanding games that are only emulated correctly on a PC, that's fine. For many of us, arcade fans, we just need a compact system that is able to emulate flawlessly 80's, 90's and many 2000's games and the Raspberry Pi 4 is perfectly fine for that.
Personal project:
How to make a dedicated MAME Appliance on a Raspberry Pi 4/Pi 400
https://gist.github.com/sonicprod/f5a7bb10fb9ed1cc5124766831e120c4

Vocalitus

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2021, 07:16:48 pm »
At war? Don't know where you are getting that idea from. I'm just stating what has been known all along about them. You can either accept the consensus and documented proof as done by myself, several YouTuber's like ETA Prime, and many others in the retropie forums, or you can believe what you want to believe even if proof contradicts it. It's a free world.

I don't think there is any "consensus" at all over the usages of a Raspberry Pi 4 in an arcade cabinet. It all depends of your needs. You seems to appreciate demanding games that are only emulated correctly on a PC, that's fine. For many of us, arcade fans, we just need a compact system that is able to emulate flawlessly 80's, 90's and many 2000's games and the Raspberry Pi 4 is perfectly fine for that.

I'm no stranger to Lag on RetroPie.  PSX titles sometimes lag out horribly.  Only two laserdisc games work on Retropie, and the odd game I like is Dig Dug and Ms Pacman, and it is a small vertical screen that MAME and Daphne only uses 50% of it for some other dumb reason, but Emulation Station is full screen.  It works, its small and I am going to add a LCD marquee to it.  More I think about it - the M73 would work with some serious mods, and should be fast enough for demanding games like PS3 and Dreamcast with Big Box, but it is overkill, and enlarge my carbon foot print.   :dizzy:

I just want the dumb thing to stop booting up every hour or so...

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 08:19:53 pm »
I just want the dumb thing to stop booting up every hour or so...
Maybe use some type of mechanical power switch on a modded USB power cord.

It can't boot up if there's no power applied.   ;)


Scott

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2021, 09:10:05 pm »
I just want the dumb thing to stop booting up every hour or so...
Maybe use some type of mechanical power switch on a modded USB power cord.

It can't boot up if there's no power applied.   ;)


Scott

It does already, via the Countercade On/Off switch and pin 5 and 6 on the GPIO.   :(


And before you ask......yes I checked ground and its isolated.

Its posessed I tell you.  I knew I shouldn't have added that SteamLink App.  It was a nice little Pi before that.  :hissy:


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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2021, 10:44:51 pm »
It does already, via the Countercade On/Off switch and pin 5 and 6 on the GPIO.   :(
No, it does not.   :banghead:

1. The momentary switch on pins 5+6 only works if power is already applied to the Pi.
- That switch has nothing to do with providing (or interrupting) operating power to the Pi.

2. No operating power applied to the Pi = Pi can't boot.
- If the Countercade switch is "off" and the Pi still randomly boots, the Countercade switch obviously does not remove operating power from the Pi.
--------------
What I'm talking about is either using a switched power strip . . .



. . . or a latching/rocker/toggle switch on the Pi's 5v input line like the latching pushbutton on this power supply.
- You can easily mod a cable like that by replacing the pushbutton switch with a rocker or toggle switch.

 

If neither of these approaches sound good to you, consider either doing a fresh install or . . . get a young priest and an old priest . . .   :lol


Scott

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2021, 11:08:30 pm »
Iím terrible at video games and even I am annoyed by the control lag on a pi. 

 :dunno

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Re: The magical Pi
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2021, 06:27:48 pm »
Iím terrible at video games and even I am annoyed by the control lag on a pi. 

 :dunno

Its not lag but old age.   :oldman