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Author Topic: Plexiglass on Control Panel  (Read 5395 times)

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JEGGOSH

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Plexiglass on Control Panel
« on: April 18, 2021, 08:31:39 am »
Hey all,
I am in the midst of planning and I'm working on my CP.
From what I've been reading, plexiglass is not necessary if I'm building everything from scratch (MDO).
Is this true?
Do I just need to cover it with vinyl and poly that sucker?
Do I even need vinyl?
Is there a specific poly I should use?
Should I use Lexan instead?
Should I do something completely different?
What is your quest?

To clarify, it's a 4 player pedestal.
"Good men mean well. We just don't always end up doing well."

leapinlew

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 09:36:54 am »
If you order high quality artwork, it can most likely withstand the abuse you'll put it under. Hell, I order regular old vinyl and it's been working out. You rarely see plexiglass covers much anymore, and I think that's for a variety of reasons. The artwork is durable enough, stuff gets in between the plexiglass and CP, plexi gets scratched and starts showing wear pretty quickly.

It does look pretty awesome when it's new and shiny though.

JEGGOSH

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 12:36:19 pm »
It does look pretty awesome when it's new and shiny though.
That's what I think to but don't want to deal with the scratching or eventual discoloration.
Do you poly on top of the vinyl or just slap the vinyl on and call it a day?

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javeryh

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 01:14:44 pm »
I always order the polycarbonate control panel from gameongrafix (custom art for whatever I’m building) and it can take a beating.  Never had an issue with scratching it or anything.

PL1

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 01:17:42 pm »
Several recommendations:

1. Buy from a vendor that has experience with arcade control panel overlays and sideart.
- They will understand the best materials and requirements for this application.

2. Have the vendor print on vinyl with an added polycarbonate laminate layer.
- If they don't add the laminate layer, the exposed ink will eventually wear off unless you add a layer of plexiglass . . . that eventually develops the problems mentioned earlier.

Here's a pic of a lamination machine.
When people talk about laminated side art, they are talking about a very thin layer of clear polycarbonate over the vinyl to protect the printing.




Scott

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 01:52:01 pm »
I honestly see plexi as only worth it if you are worried about impact damage. vinyl art can rip and tear if it is hit with something heavy or hard.

Buuuuuut....even then, replacement vinyl is generally cheap and easy enough that just getting a new piece is more worthwhile that mucking with replacing plexi if your cab gets a ding in it.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 03:17:56 pm »
Thanks guys.
All good points.
And do I just look for local sign makers or are there specific vinyl printers or is there someplace online that people trust/recommend?
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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 03:50:34 pm »
is there someplace online that people trust/recommend?
There are a number of art printers/sellers listed in this post.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,17346.msg1372720.html#msg1372720


Scott

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 09:17:58 pm »
For my CP I'm planning on having a custom "floor sticker" printed, e.g. https://www.bannerbuzz.ca/floor-decals-signs/p  I figure if it's tough enough to stand up to people walking on it, it can handle being used as a wrist / palm rest.
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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 03:45:39 am »
The only time I'd use plexi on a CP these days, is if I were building a repro/replica cab, or restoring one, where the original had it.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 05:24:31 am »
Talk to Malenko, he does really good work. He's done a couple projects for me in the past. Only reason I haven't used him as of recent is because there is a local graphics shop in town that can do vinyl prints in most any size I want, and the girl who does the photoshop work is very very talented (and cute), so it only takes me a couple hours for what I need instead of days. Only thing I would suggest, is make sure your graphics designer has a vectorized image if you can provide one. Lots to choose from here: http://vectorlib.free.fr/

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2021, 09:05:17 pm »
Ya know....

in 15 years or less, there will be some kid on here who wants to rebuild his dads arcade which had a frankepanel, black marble paper and plexiglass.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2021, 07:52:20 am »
Ya know....

in 15 years or less, there will be some kid on here who wants to rebuild his dads arcade which had a frankepanel, black marble paper and plexiglass.

well, he's in luck.
They still sell that black marble contact paper.
With 2 day shipping!

wp34

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2021, 09:36:16 am »
Ya know....

in 15 years or less, there will be some kid on here who wants to rebuild his dads arcade which had a frankepanel, black marble paper and plexiglass.

Ha!  Could happen.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I occasionally think about copying one of Knievel's old designs...again.

https://knievel.webs.com/


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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2021, 09:58:02 am »
Ya know....

in 15 years or less, there will be some kid on here who wants to rebuild his dads arcade which had a frankepanel, black marble paper and plexiglass.

Ha!  Could happen.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I occasionally think about copying one of Knievel's old designs...again.

https://knievel.webs.com/

Got to admit, this is pretty frikken cool.


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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2021, 09:58:24 am »
Ha!  Could happen.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I occasionally think about copying one of Knievel's old designs...again.

https://knievel.webs.com/

That Guitar Hero cabinet is something I've wanted to build ever since I saw it.  I imagine there are tons of songs available on PC from modders by now.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2021, 10:18:35 am »
Ya know....

in 15 years or less, there will be some kid on here who wants to rebuild his dads arcade which had a frankepanel, black marble paper and plexiglass.

Ha!  Could happen.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I occasionally think about copying one of Knievel's old designs...again.

https://knievel.webs.com/

Got to admit, this is pretty frikken cool.



That's the one I copied for my Tron build.  Very classic lines and just the right amount of "bling."


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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2021, 10:20:23 am »
Ha!  Could happen.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I occasionally think about copying one of Knievel's old designs...again.

https://knievel.webs.com/

That Guitar Hero cabinet is something I've wanted to build ever since I saw it.  I imagine there are tons of songs available on PC from modders by now.

Agreed.  If I had more space I would love to build one of those.  My parents had a country rock band in the 70's and the amp reminds me of our basement.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2021, 10:29:41 am »
That's the one I copied for my Tron build.  Very classic lines and just the right amount of "bling."

If I was going to replicate that. I'd change out the blue neon for RGB, and I'd change the T-molding out for some stuff that you can slip some RGB strip lights down into. I had t-molding.com send me a few sampler sizes a while back, one of them is the hollow RGB T molding. Only comes in 3/4 inch size though, but yeah, that would look bad ass, I'm totally gonna make one, one of these days.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2021, 10:33:40 am »
That's the one I copied for my Tron build.  Very classic lines and just the right amount of "bling."

If I was going to replicate that. I'd change out the blue neon for RGB, and I'd change the T-molding out for some stuff that you can slip some RGB strip lights down into. I had t-molding.com send me a few sampler sizes a while back, one of them is the hollow RGB T molding. Only comes in 3/4 inch size though, but yeah, that would look bad ass, I'm totally gonna make one, one of these days.

That cabinet was quite popular to copy about 10 years ago. Not unlike the "Tully" is right now.

javeryh

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2021, 11:01:14 am »
My parents had a country rock band in the 70's

Now that's freaking cool!

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 02:25:25 pm »
I can't help but put my 2 cents in on the plexi thing:  I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, when it's new, it looks beautiful.  But my experience in the wild is that it was always scratched and ugly, dirt collected underneath, the corners were usually chipped or broken, and even when new, I just never liked the "sticky" feel of the ultra-smooth surface on my hands while playing.

My panels have a printed overlay, laminated with a heavy, textured polycarbonate film.    It still looks great after more than a decade and feels good under the hands.  I don't know why anyone would use something different, but "different strokes" and all that.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 03:33:11 pm »
A tip on that. Some people get concerned (and it does happen), that the edges will start to come up on them after a while. To prevent this from happening, use some 3M 3950 Edge sealer: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LDH83S You basically just put down a coat on the tucked edges and the wood it's on to create a nice bond to the wood. I lay the 3950 on the edges, then of course, cover with T-molding when dry. The graphic should be nice and tight when you are done. For additional strength. use some 3M primer 94: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088P06AS on the edges before applying vinyl.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2021, 04:16:20 pm »
I can't help but put my 2 cents in on the plexi thing:  I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, when it's new, it looks beautiful.  But my experience in the wild is that it was always scratched and ugly, dirt collected underneath, the corners were usually chipped or broken, and even when new, I just never liked the "sticky" feel of the ultra-smooth surface on my hands while playing.

My panels have a printed overlay, laminated with a heavy, textured polycarbonate film.    It still looks great after more than a decade and feels good under the hands.  I don't know why anyone would use something different, but "different strokes" and all that.

100% agree.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2021, 04:22:26 pm »
I like my 1/8" plexi control panel cover.  T-molding covers the edges.  I did mess up one spot on it because I was stripping paint and came inside to play and didn't realize a glob of stripping goo was on my hand.  But I'll be fixing that because I'm rewiring my panel with leaf buttons instead of micro-switch buttons so while its apart I'll just CNC another plexi.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2021, 07:48:50 pm »
I can't help but put my 2 cents in on the plexi thing:  I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, when it's new, it looks beautiful.  But my experience in the wild is that it was always scratched and ugly, dirt collected underneath, the corners were usually chipped or broken, and even when new, I just never liked the "sticky" feel of the ultra-smooth surface on my hands while playing.

My panels have a printed overlay, laminated with a heavy, textured polycarbonate film.    It still looks great after more than a decade and feels good under the hands.  I don't know why anyone would use something different, but "different strokes" and all that.
100% agree.


Here's the thing.   Plexi wasn't installed to prevent wear on the artwork... that stuff is pretty robust and cheap enough to replace anyway.   Operators used it to prevent cigarette burns and graffiti, be it carved or written with a permanent marker.    Since you shouldn't have to deal with either of those issues at home you don't need plexi.   It's an added expense that will actually make the machine look worse in the long run. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 02:46:49 pm by Howard_Casto »

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2021, 02:22:16 pm »
One little addendum on my preferences against plexi, I actually do prefer plexi on CPs that I plan on playing plenty of high speed trackball games with. Some of those games where you throttle quickly, like golden tee, your hand is like a plane hitting a runway throttling the trackball. Some CP vinyl surfaces are especially rough, and I would rather have a smooth plexi in those cases.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2021, 07:23:25 am »
It's worth bearing in mind that you can apply artwork on top of plexiglass. The advantage of doing this is that, if the artwork gets damaged, you can easily peel it off the plexi and replace it with new artwork. In my experience, it's harder to peel old artwork off wood.
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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2021, 05:05:39 pm »
Yeah but if you cover the plexi then what is the point of having the plexi?   Artwork comes off of wood and metal panels just fine, you only need to heat it up.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2021, 05:28:16 pm »
Hell yeah, just take your hair dryer to it and most vinyl will bubble up, stretch, and peel right off with very little effort.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2021, 05:48:52 pm »
Yeah but if you cover the plexi then what is the point of having the plexi?   Artwork comes off of wood and metal panels just fine, you only need to heat it up.

The point of using plexi is that it provides a nice smooth surface that artwork can easily be applied to. It can also be a convenient means of covering up joystick mounting plates, recessed screw heads etc.

And you've undermined your argument by saying that artwork can easily be removed from wood by heating it up. That risks damaging the wood. If you stick the artwork on plexi, then it can simply be peeled off with no heating required.
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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2021, 11:00:59 pm »
No man, just no.   I've never heard of anyone damaging a control panel with a hair dryer which is all that's required to pull it up.   Real craftsman aren't going to have anything to cover up, no offense.   You don't use joystick mounting plates you route underneath the panel if necessary. There shouldn't be any screws on the top of a control panel, ect....   Even assuming you do have all of that to cover up the thickness of plexi used in the manner you suggest (so that it looks like you aren't using plexi) is going to be super thin, like 1/8th of an inch or thinner and thus if there isn't a perfectly smooth surface underneath it'll crack when pressure is put on those mounting plates and holes that you shouldn't have.  If you've been doing that all this time I suggest you step up your game as that isn't how they did it in the arcades and thus it isn't how you should be doing it.   

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2021, 11:26:24 pm »
I kinda have a fondness for plexi on top of artwork and button surrounds, like you see on most kit games.




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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2021, 11:30:41 pm »
I honestly don't mind the plexi. Wouldn't matter to me either way. Only thing about them I don't like is if you get one where the edges haven't been torched or rounded. It'll kind of dig into the wrists if you're like me and semi rest it on the board.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2021, 11:34:26 pm »
I’ve honestly never seen artwork on TOP of plexi. It makes sense as a flat, smooth surface, but I’d say I’ve seen artwork UNDER plexi 100% of the time on any game I’ve seen in the wild.


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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2021, 11:40:26 pm »
OP, please don’t put your artwork on top of plexi. That is just ridiculous. If you’re worried about having a smooth surface to apply your artwork CPO, then sand your panel. Fill in the blemishes with filler. Then seal it with a coat of paint or two.
The point that was made that wood would be damaged if your heat it to remove an old CPO is a fallacy. You are more likely to warp plexi with heat gun than damage wood.

In all my restorations I have never seen artwork applied to the top of a plexi surface.

Howard is right about why operators and cabinet builders back then put plexi on top. Preventing cigarette and graffiti damage. But also, in the 90’s a lot of dynamos had plexi because of the massive conversion reuse and having to cover up multiple drilled holes in the metal CP’s.

And to address Vigo’s point of a high speed trackball game... moist hands do not glide over plexi. There are no ridges in the surface for that friction to lessen. On polycarbonate laminated surfaces you have small bumps in the texture that help with moisture and dissipate surface friction. This helps for a lot of high speed action games.

Personally, I’ve done plexi over artwork before. It’s ok, but a proper treated surface with a polycarbonate laminate looks more pro, cleaner, and will survive abuse more than plexi. Plexi will scratch and crack. Polycarbonate laminate is tough af. It’s meant for control panels.

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2021, 09:09:04 am »
You don't use joystick mounting plates you route underneath the panel if necessary. There shouldn't be any screws on the top of a control panel, ect....

Not sure why you're being so dogmatic. There are plenty of people around here who have top mounted their joysticks with good results. It's a tried and tested technique. For example, check out this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120011.0

Also, check out the following very comprehensive joystick mounting guide:

https://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/mounting_layering.html

The problem is that many joysticks were designed for metal control panels, and therefore have very short shafts. If wood is your only option, and you want to retain the original joystick height, then sometimes you have to get creative.

Trackballs are even more of a problem as they're also mostly designed to be fitted to metal panels, and if they're even half an inch too low, they just look and feel wrong.

And yes, of course you can mount the joystick on the underside of the wood, and then route underneath the panel to raise the joystick a bit higher. That's another option. But if you route too much, the wood can end up being very thin. That's even more of an issue if you decide to recess the bold heads.
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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2021, 12:09:57 pm »
I think it boils down to:

Do you want to create something closer to what the original machines had, or create something more akin to what operators did to converted route machines?  I would think most would be looking to do the former, but I can also understand that many only had access to those laundr-O-mat machines, so that is what is authentic to them.

But for the record, there's no reason to worry about 1/4" of panel over a joystick pocket being insufficient, or bolt heads showing.  Use some counter-sunk flat-head screws, cover it with the PC overlay and Bob's your mother's brother.  If you manage to rip that out through normal play, you probably suck at video games or have anger management issues. :)

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2021, 10:34:46 pm »
you probably suck at video games or have anger management issues. :)

Quit limiting us RandyT, we can be both!

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Re: Plexiglass on Control Panel
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2021, 03:17:54 am »
I think it boils down to:

Do you want to create something closer to what the original machines had, or create something more akin to what operators did to converted route machines?  I would think most would be looking to do the former, but I can also understand that many only had access to those laundr-O-mat machines, so that is what is authentic to them.

But for the record, there's no reason to worry about 1/4" of panel over a joystick pocket being insufficient, or bolt heads showing.  Use some counter-sunk flat-head screws, cover it with the PC overlay and Bob's your mother's brother.  If you manage to rip that out through normal play, you probably suck at video games or have anger management issues. :)

Thank you Randy because this one post got me laughing twice
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