javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys

[javeryh]

Alright... I don't understand what is going on.  Cabinet is 100% done except for getting it to turn on and off like I want.  Everything is plugged into the Smart Strip properly:



The pi is plugged into the control outlet and the monitor, LED strip and amp are plugged into the green "automatically switched outlets".  I would expect power to the pi to turn on all three devices but only the monitor comes on with the pi.  The other 2 are on constantly.  There also appears to only be two behavior changes when playing with the sensitivity dial on the side of the smart strip - either nothing will turn on with the pi (dial too low, not letting power through) or the LED Strip and amp remain on no matter what (turning the pi off does not shut these two things down). I could understand the LED strip behaving weird because maybe it needs so little power to function that the Smart Strip cannot go low enough... but the amp for sure should be turning on and off even though I care more about the LEDs.

Pulling power from the pi or the encoder (which is powered by the pi) for the LED strip is a non-starter.  There isn't enough juice.  Not only does the LED strip blink when connected to a USB slot on the pi but the encoder light blinks as well causing the controls to lose focus.  This also happens when I plug in a USB keyboard to change settings.  There just isn't enough juice in the pi to run everything.

What are my options here?  Keep in mind I need a super dumbed down explanation because I am super dumb. 

Is there something other than a Smart Strip I could use here (that is 1000% safe)?  I did some searching and the IOT Power Relay looks like it might work but it is sold out everywhere.  Looks like you plug the pi into the "Always On" outlet and then run a wire from the USB port on the pi to the Power Relay so when the pi comes on, the Power relay turns on the other outlets.  Seems exactly like a Smart Strip to me though so not sure why my current. solution isn't working...

[Mike A]

Why do you need all of that?

Just wire a regular surge strip to a switch and be done with it.

On, Off. Easy.

[javeryh]

Why do you need all of that?

Just wire a regular surge strip to a switch and be done with it.

On, Off. Easy.

The pi needs to be shut down safely.  You can't just cut power to it or you will corrupt the memory card.  I have a pushbutton wired to the GPIO pins on the pi with a safe shutdown script that runs when the button is pressed so the pi can be powered on and of safely.

I don't understand why the monitor works perfectly but the other two things do not.  It's not making sense unless they draw so little power that when the "automatically switched" outlets are shut down, there is still enough power for these things but not enough for the monitor.  I can't be the only person to have encountered this before though.

[Mike A]

Please can we all stop with the Pi shutdown thing?

It will only get corrupted if you shut it off while it is writing to the card. And not even always then.

Keep an extra card handy.

[Mike A]

This forum in general gets a little wacky about spending a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ton of time and energy on ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that might never happen, and if it does it is easily fixed.

You could always make the thing read only. Then your chance of corruption is just about zero.

[PL1]

Looks like there are two ways to proceed.

Option 1 - Go simple like Mike suggests.

Use the power inlet on/off switch to apply/remove power.

Use the power button on the GPIO for safe shutdown.
- Switch off the power inlet several seconds after the monitor switches off.

Stash a backup SD in the cab and keep a backup at home so you can repair a corrupted SD.

Option 2 - Go more complicated.

Like Zebidee suggested earlier, it looks like the smart strip is allowing enough current through the switched outlets to power the amp and the LED strip.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure exactly how to do this, but it can be done.

Use a relay board controlled by one of the GPIO pins on the RasPi to switch power on/off to the amp and LED strip.
- During startup you would need to set that GPIO pin to high.
- During shutdown you might need to set the GPIO pin to low if the shutdown doesn't remove the logic high voltage from that pin.
- The relay would be spliced into the Hot wire of the power splitter cord before the split.  Leave Ground and Neutral always connected.
- The power splitter cord would be plugged into an always-on outlet.

  Relay board - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/
NOTE: This relay board can trigger on high or low.  Most boards only trigger on low.

 

  Power splitter cord - https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1

 

----------------------

Mike's way is a lot easier and less expensive.   


Scott

[Gilrock]

Someone should create a GUI with a shutdown menu option.

[Mike A]

Can we get an accounting of how many times a Pi setup for emulation actually corrupted a drive for people here?

[pbj]

It happened to me when cutting power sitting at the Emulation Station menu, and I had used the Pi less than 10 times.  Now I do a shutdown from the menu which is annoying.

[javeryh]

It happened to me once with a pi3 before I had any idea it was even a thing.  I downloaded some ridiculous image with games and emulators set up but I hated it and after spending hours deleting games and changing the stupid artwork that came with it I corrupted the memory card by pulling the plug.

Looks like there are two ways to proceed.

Option 1 - Go simple like Mike suggests.

Use the power inlet on/off switch to apply/remove power.

Use the power button on the GPIO for safe shutdown.
- Switch off the power inlet several seconds after the monitor switches off.

Stash a backup SD in the cab and keep a backup at home so you can repair a corrupted SD.

Option 2 - Go more complicated.

Like Zebidee suggested earlier, it looks like the smart strip is allowing enough current through the switched outlets to power the amp and the LED strip.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure exactly how to do this, but it can be done.

Use a relay board controlled by one of the GPIO pins on the RasPi to switch power on/off to the amp and LED strip.
- During startup you would need to set that GPIO pin to high.
- During shutdown you might need to set the GPIO pin to low if the shutdown doesn't remove the logic high voltage from that pin.
- The relay would be spliced into the Hot wire of the power splitter cord before the split.  Leave Ground and Neutral always connected.
- The power splitter cord would be plugged into an always-on outlet.

  Relay board - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/
NOTE: This relay board can trigger on high or low.  Most boards only trigger on low.

 

  Power splitter cord - https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1

 

----------------------

Mike's way is a lot easier and less expensive.   

Thanks.  I was searching for info on relays but not sure what I'm looking at.  The IOT Power Relay I linked up above is made for the pi.  You plug a USB cable into the pi and then strip the other end to go into the relay.  When the pi comes on, the signal gets sent to the relay to power everything else.  Seems simple but they are sold out everywhere and I can't seem to find a similar product.

Option 1 is already set up.  I can power on the cabinet using the switch on the rear where power comes in.  Everything will boot as expected.  Then to shut it down there is a button inside the coin door that will turn the pi off and once that happens I can hit the switch on the back of the cab to completely cut the power.  This is not ideal because of the 2-step shutdown and the main reason of the switch being up against the wall.

Option 2 deserves some additional consideration.  I have the time since I'm no longer on a deadline with these but I'm really effing annoyed and want to be done.  But if I can figure it out and learn something towards the next project I'd be happy.  If these cabs were mine I'd just live with it but I really need to make things as easy as possible for the intended users.

[Zebidee]

Relays are everywhere. You don't need to spend $30 on one either.

I bought a 5-pack of 5v relays for about $3.50 last year, so less than $1 each. The only drawback was most of the writing was in Chinese. Fortunately my multimeter serves as an effective language translation tool.

Find an old USB 2.0 cable and cut the other end off. Find the red (5v) and black (GND) wires. You won't need the green/white wires.

You only need the more common low-active relay, which is what I used (high is fine too, but instructions slightly different). On one end there will be 3 terminals for Vcc (5v), GND and IN.  Vcc and GND are self-explanatory. For IN, just jumper it to the GND terminal with a short piece of wire.

First, the relay must be getting some power (a few milliamps) to become active. So turn on the Pi. Then, because GND is connected to IN and it is low-active, this will trigger the relay. Because my relays have Dupont pins on the input terminals, I was able to recycle an old 3-pin header from some old electronics bits. I soldered that to the 5v and GND from the molex, then jumpered the GND to IN.

At the other end are your three typical NO - COM - NC terminals. You connect your AC active wires to the COM and NO terminals. When the relay activates it will close the NO (normally open) and open the NC (normally closed), shunting your power through.

I've added a few shots of how I did mine. The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.

I took the shots of the relay wiring a year ago, been working well since, all hidden away behind a panel. I apologise for photobombing your thread 

I just added a shot of the panel/switch at front, for context only, you don't need it. It is the original mains power switch for the cab, so I left it in. It is actually unnecessary now because I added a PC-style power plug port at the back which includes a switch, fuse and LED. Also added a line filter.  Anyway, none of it triggers the relay or is otherwise important, it is only for context.

Hopefully it all passes the Scott test

EDIT: Mostly I power up/down the cab with a discreet momentary switch at back/top/left of the cab (reach up/behind with left hand). This powers up the PC, which then powers up everything else via the relay. Very noob-friendly. The fused mains power switches I mentioned mostly just stay on, though I sometimes turn off the one at the back if not using for a long time.

[leapinlew]

My Pi on my Gorf imploded after a shutdown. I used the spare card method, and re-imaged the old card. I've probably powered on/off that machine 50 times or so. I still power on/off the cabinet with a light switch.

[PL1]

The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.

This unknown is part of why I suggested the active high relay.

It's easy enough to use a hacked USB cable like you recommend to test for USB standby power.

If it doesn't have it, your approach of an active low relay with a hacked USB cable for operating power + ground jumpered to the trigger would be great.

If it does have it, you can still use a hacked USB cable for the relay's operating power, but an active high relay seems to be the better idea with the trigger coming from either GPIO 5v (pin 2 or 4), GPIO 3.3v (pin 1 or 17), or another GPIO pin that is logic high when the system is on and logic low during standby.
- Test if pins 2, 4, 1, and 17 have power during standby.  They probably do, which eliminates using one of them as the trigger.

Hopefully it all passes the Scott test

It passes the far more important "Electronics 101" test.   

The big question is whether it passes the Javery test.   


Scott

[Zebidee]

The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.

This unknown is part of why I suggested the active high relay.

It's easy enough to use a hacked USB cable like you recommend to test for USB standby power.

If it doesn't have it, your approach of an active low relay with a hacked USB cable for operating power + ground jumpered to the trigger would be great.

We'll see I guess. The USB standby power thing might not even be a concern.

I don't know Pis nor how to turn a Pi's USB standby power on/off. For a PC you can usually control it via the BIOS, pretty easy. I imagine a Pi has similar or at least a config setting.

With a low-active design you just apply 5v power to let the relay work. It is simple and modular. If the PC in my cab dies, just replace with any old or new PC, plug in the molex, and it will all work the same as before.

What worries me is that relying upon a GPIO logic pin setting being HIGH makes the design less modular. It is a higher level of software control, setup and wiring. If the Pi dies you can't just replace the Pi with another Pi, it has to be setup the same way as well. Maybe swapping cloned SD cards is the way around this? Also, if you can program a Pi via SD card to work with a high-active design, can't it be programmed to work with low-active design too? Does it matter and does anybody care?

The important thing is that there are solutions for all occasions! Relays with both high and low triggers are the best of both worlds, and probably aren't much more expensive anyway.

Hopefully it all passes the Scott test

It passes the far more important "Electronics 101" test.   

The big question is whether it passes the Javery test.   


Scott

Thanks! I hope Javery's head isn't spinning

I just pulled the relay panel out and snapped off a couple more pics. Those earlier photos were taken before I re-purposed a 3-pin female header from an old TV. This makes it sturdy yet easy to remove and work with stuff. Anyway here is is. The wire colours don't match traditional colours because I soldered the 5v & GND wires onto the ends of existing wires. So the header goes 5v - GND - GND. Next photo shows relay with header removed so you can see the pin order VCC - GND - IN.

Again, apologies for photobombing. I'll stop now, for a bit.

 

[bobbyb13]

This is all briliant of course.

If the thing is pissing you off, you have no delivery deadline and you aren't absolutely sure of what you want to do...?

Walk away from them for now.

In time the choice will illuminate itself.

Then do that.

[javeryh]

I finished cabinet #2 over the weekend so both of them are 99% complete.  They look great and they play great but the amp and marquee light still do not react to the pi being powered on and off via the SmartStrip on BOTH cabinets.  So I do not think it is an issue with a malfunctioning SmartStrip.  I've used them on multiple projects though and never had an issue.

I've been researching and I think I might have figured out the problem but I have no way to test without spending some money so I'm hoping someone here might know.  I installed a "safe shutdown" script on the pi by modifying "sudo nano /boot/config.txt" and adding these two lines to the file at the end:

Code: [Select]

#shutdown button
dtoverlay=gpio-shutdown
Bridging GPIO3 and Ground (pins 5 and 6) via a momentary pushbutton shuts the pi down.  Pressing it again will turn it back on.  HOWEVER, I think this is only putting the pi to sleep and it is still drawing power, which is why the SmartStrip is not working properly.  There is something called a Mausberry Circuit that purports to actually (and safely) turn the pi OFF - not just put it to sleep.

Before I drop $25 on this thing, does anyone know if this is true or if shutting the pi off would fix my problem?   

[bobbyb13]

I think you are right about the power.

I remembered Da Old Man posting about switching off his in a jukebox project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165316.msg1743276.html#msg1743276

Haven't gotten to play with RPi yet but looks like you are correct about it just sleeping and not fully turning off without another circuit/device.

[javeryh]

I think you are right about the power.

I remembered Da Old Man posting about switching off his in a jukebox project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165316.msg1743276.html#msg1743276

Haven't gotten to play with RPi yet but looks like you are correct about it just sleeping and not fully turning off without another circuit/device.

Thanks bobby - I'm going to ask Da Old Man if he sorted it out.  Based on his post and the description of the ATXRaspi that he linked it seems like cutting power completely is something these boards are doing that my setup is not.  I really hope it is this simple to fix.  I'm willing to spend the money at this point to stop thinking about it. 

[javeryh]

Well I just dropped what is hopefully the last $40 into these stupid things and bought 2 Mausberry Circuits.  I really hope they work.  Turns out the pi draws about 70mA when “off” so the SmartStrip will not know the difference.  The Mausberry Circuit is supposed to cut power completely once the button is pressed. 

This is the last thing I can think of and if this doesn't work I'll have to tell my brother-in-law that you need to flip the switch above the power receptacle on the back of the cabinet to power on and then press the power button for the pi to shut it down and then flip the switch on the back of the cabinet to power off completely.  If this is what ends up happening... they are going to eventually fry the microSD card.  At this point I'm wishing I bought a miniPC with Windows 10 for like $100 instead of messing with the pi at all.  Live and learn I guess.

Once I get the Mausberry Circuit installed and assuming it works I'll take some final pics and film a brief walkthrough and be done.   

[javeryh]

The Mausberry Circuits I ordered FOUR MONTHS AGO finally arrived.  Now I need to relearn what the hell I did to set up the pi4s in these cabinets and get the power situation sorted out.  If this doesn't work like I am hoping, I am still calling these done and will deliver the cabinets sometime in July when I make a trip up to MA.  They are taking up WAY too much space in my basement.

I need another project...

[bobbyb13]

I thought you already had another project lined up when these stopped torturing you.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this mausberry circuit thing goes (as I am looking forward to doing the same thing if I can figure it out.)

[javeryh]

I thought you already had another project lined up when these stopped torturing you.

I kind of do... I really want a Midway cocktail cabinet (Ms. Pac-Man) but have absolutely no idea where to find one.  I do not want to build from scratch this time and there aren't any kits readily available as far as I can tell other than Arcade Shop but it's always sold out.  Earlier this year they told me that it would come back in stock around April but it never did.

[leapinlew]

I kind of do... I really want a Midway cocktail cabinet (Ms. Pac-Man) but have absolutely no idea where to find one.  I do not want to build from scratch this time and there aren't any kits readily available as far as I can tell other than Arcade Shop but it's always sold out.  Earlier this year they told me that it would come back in stock around April but it never did.

https://www.harumancustoms.com/products/cocktail-kits/midway-style-cocktail

[Zebidee]

The Mausberry Circuits I ordered FOUR MONTHS AGO finally arrived.  Now I need to relearn what the hell I did to set up the pi4s in these cabinets and get the power situation sorted out.  If this doesn't work like I am hoping, I am still calling these done and will deliver the cabinets sometime in July when I make a trip up to MA.  They are taking up WAY too much space in my basement.

I need another project...

Just think about how happy you'll be when the twins are finally done 

[javeryh]

https://www.harumancustoms.com/products/cocktail-kits/midway-style-cocktail

Yeah - it looks pretty good but it’s 1/2” material, the coin cutout doesn’t look like it would fit a traditional Midway door and the top pattern isn’t accurate - you can see the cutout is more rectangular than it should be.

Don’t get me wrong - Haruman makes great stuff but I’m just lookin  for something a little closer to the real deal.

This is the best I’ve seen but that price is almost double what it should be…

[bobbyb13]

https://www.harumancustoms.com/products/cocktail-kits/midway-style-cocktail

Yeah - it looks pretty good but it’s 1/2” material, the coin cutout doesn’t look like it would fit a traditional Midway door and the top pattern isn’t accurate - you can see the cutout is more rectangular than it should be.

Don’t get me wrong - Haruman makes great stuff but I’m just lookin  for something a little closer to the real deal.

Thisis the best I’ve seen but that price is almost double what it should be…

Wow! Really?
That is half what it would cost to make one out here.
Don't think I could even buy just the material for that price actually, never mind build it.

You could always be the guinea pig for this.
https://www.classicarcadecabinets.com/galaga-cocktail.html

I would swear I saw reliable looking plans somewhere on the interwebs.

[Zebidee]

Mike's Arcade site are hosting the Kyle Lindstrom Pac-Man/Ms Pac-Man cocktail plans, which are as good as any I've seen. Uses 3/4" (18mm) plywood or MDF with a 1 inch piece for the top IIRC. According to the site they have many of the metal parts too.

https://www.mikesarcade.com/arcade/cabplans.html

I like these plans so much I asked a local carpenter to make it up for me. The idea was to free-up my time as I was busy with early GreenAntz development and a pool build. However that was a mistake. He barely looked at the plans (I even translated all relevant parts to Thai for him). He went off-spec so many times that I eventually snapped, gave up compromising my dreams for his laziness. I sacked him and was angry for about 6 months, though I finally cooled down. I nearly burned the shell he created, but relented, and some of our chickens enjoyed sleeping in it for a while. I won't show a photo as it is kinda embarassing.

While I was still angry I built the shell for the Aussie lowboy cab I'm working on at the moment, partly because I love the Aussie lowboy design, partly to direct my anger as positive energy, partly just to show how it should be done. I'm certainly quite proud of how that one is coming along, now I have some time to put into it again

I may go and do the cocktail myself, properly, one day.

[javeryh]

Wow! Really?
That is half what it would cost to make one out here.
Don't think I could even buy just the material for that price actually, never mind build it.

You could always be the guinea pig for this.
https://www.classicarcadecabinets.com/galaga-cocktail.html

I would swear I saw reliable looking plans somewhere on the interwebs.

I meant the eBay listing is double what it should be - Haruman's is priced probably too cheap!  $750 seems like a lot for just the shell.  No components or art, which would easily double that but maybe $1500 is just what a brand new one should cost...

The Kyle Lindstrom plans (hosted at Mike's Arcade) are the ones everyone has seen and they are supposedly 99% accurate if not 100%.

Mike's Arcade site are hosting the Kyle Lindstrom Pac-Man/Ms Pac-Man cocktail plans, which are as good as any I've seen. Uses 3/4" (18mm) plywood or MDF with a 1 inch piece for the top IIRC. According to the site they have many of the metal parts too.

https://www.mikesarcade.com/arcade/cabplans.html

I like these plans so much I asked a local carpenter to make it up for me. The idea was to free-up my time as I was busy with early GreenAntz development and a pool build. However that was a mistake. He barely looked at the plans (I even translated all relevant parts to Thai for him). He went off-spec so many times that I eventually snapped, gave up compromising my dreams for his laziness. I sacked him and was angry for about 6 months, though I finally cooled down. I nearly burned the shell he created, but relented, and some of our chickens enjoyed sleeping in it for a while. I won't show a photo as it is kinda embarassing.

While I was still angry I built the shell for the Aussie lowboy cab I'm working on at the moment, partly because I love the Aussie lowboy design, partly to direct my anger as positive energy, partly just to show how it should be done. I'm certainly quite proud of how that one is coming along, now I have some time to put into it again

I may go and do the cocktail myself, properly, one day.

That sounds like something that would happen to me!  I have paid for carpentry before and it never works out quite the way I envision...

I actually still have the printout of those Kyle Lindstrom plans in my miscellaneous arcade box in the basement from about 20 years ago now.  Saint's book is what sent me down the rabbit hole and those plans were one of the first things I really studied and thought maybe I could build something myself.  20 years later and a ton of experience in the shop and now I am not so sure!   

[EvilNuff]

Please can we all stop with the Pi shutdown thing?

It will only get corrupted if you shut it off while it is writing to the card. And not even always then.

Keep an extra card handy.

Slightly old but just saw this.  100% false.  About 5 years ago I was building a bartop with a pi and killing power, even while not writing to the card, would sometimes corrupt the card.  Now it is less likely but it *does* still happen.

[Mike A]

You got me.

One guy in his entire lifetime had it happen once.

Consider me chastised.

[javeryh]

So... Christmas 2021 was a bust but it's almost Christmas 2022 and these cabinets are being delivered in 2 weeks!  I shot a quick video showing off one of the finished cabinets (sorry about the vertical orientation):



I'm also going to take some final pics over the next week or so and post them here since I won't be able to do it next year.  These cabinets have grown on me a lot since I have been able to play them for the last 12 months.  The 17" screen is awesome in portrait mode for all the vertical games.  I actually think this is my favorite form factor - they take up so much less space that a regular sized cabinet and are also extremely comfortable to play.  My next one might actually be a 2P cabinet that is the same profile just slightly wider to accommodate 2 players - hopefully in 2023.  Been itching to start something new...

 

[Zebidee]

Neat n tidy, functional but simple, your nephews/nieces will love it!

[zeorangr]

These turned out really nice - and that frontend looks VERY user-friendly for something that's being given as a gift.  Awesome job man!   

[bobbyb13]

Oustanding result after a long arduous journey.
Well played.
Stoked you can deliver those this year!

[javeryh]

Just got back from Christmas trip and it has survived another year.
My brother-in-law still plays it a lot and his DK high score is getting close to mine (248,000).

Been a busy year - I’m wrapping up a kitchen tear-down and the plan is to start another arcade project in 2024…

[firedance]

Looks as good as when you finished it