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Author Topic: Which Button and Light controller to use for Sega VR Buttons and Topper/Race leader indicator?  (Read 3840 times)

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Rockstead

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A friend is Retrofitting a Sega Daytona Cabinet for me with Logitech Controls (wheel, Pedals, Shifter) + authentic Sega VR button panel and Race Leader topper - How do I get illuminated VR buttons and Race Leader indicator working all together for Multi Racer cabinet running emulation?

What痴 the simplest way to do this and what software would I use to configure how the buttons and lamps to work in different emulated games?

The person doing the build suggested one of these:

EG STARTS Zero Delay USB Encoder to PC Games Arcade Stick Controller for 2Pin Joystick Happ Push Buttons Wire https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01L8K21CK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_WJB1XCK0P9NKSGQ2Q5GH

Is there a better commercial product to use as this seems too low cost but I知 okay if it does the job.

Thanks

Edited: should have been this link EG STARTS Zero Delay USB Encoder to PC LED Joystick Set For LED Arcade Joystick DIY Kit Controller Part Mame Games (5Pin Cable + 10x 3Pin 2.8mm Wire) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0776NFW4M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SXHKTTPEB7VPQZBE4CTJ
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 11:23:20 am by Rockstead »

Gilrock

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I've used those zero delay USB encoders and they seem to work fine.  I think most would recommend an IPAC because its more flexible with being able to program the channels.  I have an IPAC that was the latest and greatest in 2014 and now I'm stuck with the key mappings because none of their software will work to program it anymore.

Rockstead

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I've used those zero delay USB encoders and they seem to work fine.  I think most would recommend an IPAC because its more flexible with being able to program the channels.  I have an IPAC that was the latest and greatest in 2014 and now I'm stuck with the key mappings because none of their software will work to program it anymore.

I知 so out of my element, so I知 learning as I go :)

Will the fact that the EG start is kind of no name, will it make compatibility an issue with any type of software I will need to use?

I talked to Andy at Ultimarc but the response was a bit too cryptic for me, he mentioned ipac2 or mini pac for buttons and pac drive for lights but mentioned I would need source code access to the game, it was over my head.

For the EG Start, it would manage both buttons and lights? and what software allows you to configure on the functionality of the VR buttons and race leader lights in different games? Will I have shift functionality or be able to map those buttons different ways?

Currently my VR buttons have the original control boards attached to them, I知 wondering if this has to get removed and you wire straight to the button instead?

Gilrock

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The link you posted doesn't supports lights.  There are models that do but they basically are just on all the time.  As far as I know those zero delay encoders have fixed key assignments so it would be up to whatever software you use on whether it could map those predefined buttons to whatever function you need.

Rockstead

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The link you posted doesn't supports lights.  There are models that do but they basically are just on all the time.  As far as I know those zero delay encoders have fixed key assignments so it would be up to whatever software you use on whether it could map those predefined buttons to whatever function you need.

Ok I知 assuming the one my friend selected does support the lights, I hope :)

I知 guessing it痴 this one:

EG STARTS Zero Delay USB Encoder to PC LED Joystick Set For LED Arcade Joystick DIY Kit Controller Part Mame Games (5Pin Cable + 10x 3Pin 2.8mm Wire) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0776NFW4M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SXHKTTPEB7VPQZBE4CTJ

I have the option of using something other than the EG Start, would you recommend I do use something different and what exactly?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 11:23:55 am by Rockstead »

Gilrock

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Sorry I just don't know anything about what you're trying to use this for.  Odds are Andy at Ultimarc did know what he was talking about.  It might have sounded "cryptic" but that's just how it is when learning something new.  Maybe someone more familiar with the needs for these racing cabinets will chime in. 

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I talked to Andy at Ultimarc but the response was a bit too cryptic for me, he mentioned ipac2 or mini pac for buttons and pac drive for lights but mentioned I would need source code access to the game, it was over my head.
Here's what Andy was talking about.

MAME not only outputs a video signal for the monitor(s), it also has an output system for other hardware.

The MAME Windows output system sends commands to control the hardware on the original arcade cabinet that was controlled by commands from the original game PCB.

Examples of this include the Q*bert knocker, the flashing start button LED after adding a coin in Dig Dug (0:55-1:00), and lighting up the selected mission on the Lunar Lander Mission Control Panel.







    NOTE: This should not be confused with using LEDBlinky and "controls.ini" to light RGB LED buttons.  That is an external process not controlled by MAME because the original cabinets did not have RGB LED buttons.

When MAME's output system sends those commands (i.e. flash the volcano LEDs), you need a program like Mame Hooker that will translate them into commands that your LED controller (Pac Drive, etc) can execute.
- At 0:17 in this video, you can see one of the VR panel lights blinking.
- At 0:30, the player pushes a different button to change the view.
-- The previous button stops blinking and the new one starts blinking, just like on an original cabinet.



For the EG Start, it would manage both buttons and lights? and what software allows you to configure on the functionality of the VR buttons and race leader lights in different games? Will I have shift functionality or be able to map those buttons different ways?
The EG Start encoder you're talking about is a simple, non-programmable gamepad encoder that supplies always-on power for LED buttons.
- There are no shifted functions, but you shouldn't need them for this application.
- It does not act as an LED controller.  It can't turn the lamps on and off.

A friend is Retrofitting a Sega Daytona Cabinet for me with Logitech Controls (wheel, Pedals, Shifter) + authentic Sega VR button panel and Race Leader topper - How do I get illuminated VR buttons and Race Leader indicator working all together for Multi Racer cabinet running emulation?
I haven't researched all the details for a multi-racer setup like you describe, but I'm pretty sure what you need is:
1. The Logitech wheel/pedals with the associated USB encoder(s).
2. An encoder for the four VR buttons, coin slots, and any other inputs that aren't handled by the Logitech encoder.
3. An LED controller to either directly control the VR button lamps and leaderboard lamps or to control a relay board that switches power to the lamps, depending on the power requirements.


Scott

fablog

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In the Gamoover forum I discovered the BFF software to control lamps and every parts of a race cabinet. You have to program an arduino to do that. I just bought all the parts this past we in Aliexpress, so I didn't tried it yet. You should translate this thread: https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=42477.0


Envoy de mon LEX722 en utilisant Tapatalk


Rockstead

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I talked to Andy at Ultimarc but the response was a bit too cryptic for me, he mentioned ipac2 or mini pac for buttons and pac drive for lights but mentioned I would need source code access to the game, it was over my head.
Here's what Andy was talking about.

MAME not only outputs a video signal for the monitor(s), it also has an output system for other hardware.

The MAME Windows output system sends commands to control the hardware on the original arcade cabinet that was controlled by commands from the original game PCB.

Examples of this include the Q*bert knocker, the flashing start button LED after adding a coin in Dig Dug (0:55-1:00), and lighting up the selected mission on the Lunar Lander Mission Control Panel.







    NOTE: This should not be confused with using LEDBlinky and "controls.ini" to light RGB LED buttons.  That is an external process not controlled by MAME because the original cabinets did not have RGB LED buttons.

When MAME's output system sends those commands (i.e. flash the volcano LEDs), you need a program like Mame Hooker that will translate them into commands that your LED controller (Pac Drive, etc) can execute.
- At 0:17 in this video, you can see one of the VR panel lights blinking.
- At 0:30, the player pushes a different button to change the view.
-- The previous button stops blinking and the new one starts blinking, just like on an original cabinet.



For the EG Start, it would manage both buttons and lights? and what software allows you to configure on the functionality of the VR buttons and race leader lights in different games? Will I have shift functionality or be able to map those buttons different ways?
The EG Start encoder you're talking about is a simple, non-programmable gamepad encoder that supplies always-on power for LED buttons.
- There are no shifted functions, but you shouldn't need them for this application.
- It does not act as an LED controller.  It can't turn the lamps on and off.

A friend is Retrofitting a Sega Daytona Cabinet for me with Logitech Controls (wheel, Pedals, Shifter) + authentic Sega VR button panel and Race Leader topper - How do I get illuminated VR buttons and Race Leader indicator working all together for Multi Racer cabinet running emulation?
I haven't researched all the details for a multi-racer setup like you describe, but I'm pretty sure what you need is:
1. The Logitech wheel/pedals with the associated USB encoder(s).
2. An encoder for the four VR buttons, coin slots, and any other inputs that aren't handled by the Logitech encoder.
3. An LED controller to either directly control the VR button lamps and leaderboard lamps or to control a relay board that switches power to the lamps, depending on the power requirements.


Scott
Thanks for the great detail Scott!

So I understood this all on the Virtual Pinball side but it痴 so standardized there, you have a DOF config to control all the toys in your various games  but it痴 all centralized and global to all games.

Does Mame Hooker only have plugins to specific games? And what about emulators outside of Mame, like Teknoparrot for example? Is there some sort of maintained list that tells you what痴 supported and for which games?

Like I was reading that Boomslangnz plug-in is required to get FFB in many games, it would be great if there was a reference to all these add-ons, it痴 overwhelming.

You mentioned the EG Starts can稚 turn lights on or off, so in that case Race Leader Indicator or start button indicator wouldn稚 work right? That wouldn稚 be fun.

I知 not really limited by any budget, In the examples you gave, which encoders would you pick if it were you? I知 happy to pay for whatever makes it easier too.

1. The Logitech wheel/pedals with the associated USB encoder(s).
2. An encoder for the four VR buttons, coin slots, and any other inputs that aren't handled by the Logitech encoder.
3. An LED controller to either directly control the VR button lamps and leaderboard lamps or to control a relay board that switches power to the lamps

Thanks again

Rockstead

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In the Gamoover forum I discovered the BFF software to control lamps and every parts of a race cabinet. You have to program an arduino to do that. I just bought all the parts this past we in Aliexpress, so I didn't tried it yet. You should translate this thread: https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=42477.0


Envoy de mon LEX722 en utilisant Tapatalk
I had started to look at that and it looks great but I thought it only supported Model 2 currently, the Dashboard I have available is a Model 2B and I know there are other solutions but it all started to get too complicated for me personally. I know the guys working on it are really smart, but I need a simpler roadmap for me personally.

I like that the Logitech will make compatibility easier with many games and I知 kind of worried about having to repair anything related to a real steering motor. I知 compromising with a real restored cabinet, art, working coin door, VR Panel, and Race leader topper, I hope it痴 enough :)

My goal is to have 4-8 of these cabinets all connected and easy to maintain with a front end and the option to play as many driving games as I can, of course with an emphasis on connected games.

fablog

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You can use the BFF only for the lamps. It's what I will do

Envoy de mon LEX722 en utilisant Tapatalk


PL1

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Does Mame Hooker only have plugins to specific games? And what about emulators outside of Mame, like Teknoparrot for example? Is there some sort of maintained list that tells you what痴 supported and for which games?
Howard's the guy to answer your questions on Mame Hooker.

Check out this tutorial showing how to find and hook into MAME outputs.
- Lots of good info on Howard's site that should get you up to speed on the basics.

http://dragonking.arcadecontrols.com/static.php?page=mhsniping

I'll let someone that has experience with the output systems of whichever other emulators you are interested in answer that part of your question.   :dunno

You mentioned the EG Starts can稚 turn lights on or off, so in that case Race Leader Indicator or start button indicator wouldn稚 work right? That wouldn稚 be fun.
You could use the EG Starts encoder for the buttons and use an LED controller for the lamps.

Button press encoding and lamp lighting are separate functions that can be, and usually are, handled by separate boards.

In the examples you gave, which encoders would you pick if it were you?
Impossible to say without doing the necessary homework to define what it is that you want and need.
- How many cabs are you linking together?
- What controls and inputs does each cab have?
- How many computers? i.e. 2 cabs controlled by a single computer or each cab has a computer connected via a network.

1. Make a detailed list of the games (and associated emulators) that you want to play.

2. Use that list to determine what inputs, outputs, features, and hardware you want/need for those games.

i.e. Daytona
Inputs: Steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal, shifter (4-speed?), coin slots, and VR button inputs.

Outputs: Lamps for the VR buttons and leaderboard.

Features: Steering wheel FFB.

Hardware:
- Wheel, pedals, and shifter use Logitech encoder(s).
- Two coin slots and four VR buttons need six encoder inputs per cab.
- Four VR button lamps per cab and __ leaderboard lamps need __ LED controller outputs.

3. Find which hardware, software and plugins you need for each game/emulator/cab. . . .


Scott

Rockstead

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Quote from: PL1
- How many cabs are you linking together?

Starting with 2, have 2 more coming to restore/convert in the same way, on the look-out for up to 4 more depending on the experience with the first ones.

Quote from: PL1
- What controls and inputs does each cab have?

Inputs:

-Logitech G29 steering wheel
      - Steering wheel buttons
-Logitech G29 shifter
    - High/ Low Mod - easily switchable to 6-             
speed
          - Shifter Buttons
 - Logitech Pedals
     - accelerate
     - Break
     - Clutch
- Sega VR Button Panel
      5 X illuminated buttons
- coin door
     - 2-slot
      -Service buttons (if there are any)
-Power Button

Outputs:
- Illuminated topper
-Race Leader indicator (in topper)
- 32 LCD
- 4 speakers + sub under seat
-Logitech Steering Wheel FFB

Quote from: PL1

- How many computers? i.e. 2 cabs controlled by a single computer or each cab has a computer connected via a network.


1 dedicated computer per unit connected to the same network, so twin cabinet will have two computers.

Quote from: PL1

1. Make a detailed list of the games (and associated emulators) that you want to play.

I値l keep it simple:
Daytona is #1
Nothing specific for Secondary, as many Arcade racing games that can be played without anything specific
#3 Nothing specific but Simcade and Sims would be cool

Quote from: PL1

Find which hardware, software and plugins you need for each game/emulator/cab. . . .


By any chance is there a reference list that someone has already built or maintains?

Quote from: PL1

- How many cabs are you linking together?

2 in progress, 2 in waiting, on the lookout for more based on how the first 2 go, goal is to have 8 linked.


Rockstead

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You can use the BFF only for the lamps. It's what I will do

Envoy de mon LEX722 en utilisant Tapatalk

What is the advantage of using Aganyte痴 solution just for the lamps over a LED controller? How do they differ?

fablog

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That's not the aganyte solution. The creator is Njz3. All I know is that it have a light only mode and it's a very cheap solution:
- Mega 2560 = 9.38$ USD
- ULN2003 stepper motor driver board= 1.78$ USD
I didn't want order a much expensive PAC led.
I know Njz3 is a very dedicated person and gamoover is a reference for all about connect a Sega race cab to a computer. I can't compare with another solution, I didn't test any.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 10:24:30 pm by fablog »

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Mame hooker can interface with an arduino via serial commands so it doesn't make a lot of sense to use a firmware that limits it to model 2 games only.   

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Are you talking about the BFF Howard? I'm not sure. In light mode only, it's compatible with  model 2, model 3, MAME, and Teknoparrot. Personally, I will try mamehooker and the BFF. At this point I don't have any preference. I liked the tutorial that Njz3 did to program an Arduino, it helped me a lot. Also it's in French, so obviously it's easier for me to understand every details.

Envoy de mon LEX722 en utilisant Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 07:58:22 pm by fablog »

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He must be further along than the last time I checked then.   Sorry about that I'm not helping.

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I'm working on a similar build and considering purchase of 2 EG STARTS Zero Delay USB Encoder to PC LED Joystick Set For LED Arcade Joystick DIY Kit Controller Part Mame Games ( 5Pin Cable + 10x 3Pin 2.8mm.

I'm fine with the LEDs always on and would prefer that actually for my build. I'm working with original sets of the View Control Panels from Daytona2. Are there plug and play LED lightbulbs to replace the stock lightbulbs? Assuming I will need to install LEDS to run the zero delay?

Thanks

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The Zero delays are fine, and should work easily. As long as they're only for supplemetary controls like view buttons, etc.

For an alternative, something like a a Raspberry Pi Pico for ~$7ea using the GP2040 firmware is the go these days - feature-rich, fastest thing out there, and also about the cheapest. I think it can drive LED's as well, but it's a community project now, so you'd want to look into things. If you want to be able to disconnect the wires you can use a few 2.54mm screw terminal headers.

EDIT: i would listen to other first on this, such as baritonomarchetto right below :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 01:31:58 am by buttersoft »

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I made some researches on BFF for a project of mine, so let me give my 2 cents to the topic

Njz3 Back Force Feedback (BFF) is a all-in-one solution to interface almost any racing cabinet to a PC. It handles inputs (buttons, switches, wheel, pedals) and outputs (lamps and force feedback/rumble).
BFF uses a software emulating a gamepad constantly running and an arduino MEGA where the cabinet is phisically connected to. It was developed on a SEGA Model cabinet, but in principle could work on any racing cabinet because it suppots various feedback hardwares.
It's not compatible with Model 2 only, but MAME, Model2, Supermodel and Teknoparrot.
The software is no longer open and needs a (very affordable) registration code from the author. He is super handy and active (not here unfortunately, but on gamoover or github).
BFF has a great GUI which makes the configuration easier and, yes, has a lamps only option.

Aganyte's solution makes use of BFF software, but calls for an expensive hardware the guy sells (still based on MEGA, but with a closed firmware and a dedicated PCB). Not good for your project, anyway.

This being said...

As far as only lamps are concerned, using BFF looks to me like trying to shot a mosquito with a bazooka. You can have the exact same result with a arduino nano and Howard's mamehooker. I wrote accurate instructions on how to (in my mother language). You will also find examples of possible driver circuits. Take a look eventually
https://coinoparena.forumfree.it/m/?t=77556101

« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 04:27:32 am by baritonomarchetto »

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Thanks guys. I already have FFB working with Boomslang FFB files for my build. I simply would like to add the Sega VR buttons to supplement my build and have them usable on the cabinet. I believe I can wire up the Zeroi delay and leverage via USB. My question really is will I need to replace the stock light bulbs in the VR buttons with LED lights? If so, does anyone know which LEDs I would need to purchase?
Thanks much!

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The zero delay can handle the inputs, but not the outputs. Hope this is clear.
Whether you use the factory bulbs (approx 300 mA each) or LEDs (some tenth of mA each) you will need a driver circuit. A ULN2003 based circuit like the one I suggest in the previously linked article will be more than enought for both options

bsoder52

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yes i think you mean the zero can be used to map the controls, but not run the led lights correct?

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looks like in this build Tiger8855 replaced the buttons. Thinking this would work for my build. But I'm not sure which all emulators would allow me to remap the view buttons. I plan to run Model 2, Supermodel, MAME and TeknoParrot.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,131911.0.html

baritonomarchetto

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If your buttons and lamps are working there's no need to replace them...