Welcome to the MiSTer FPGA LOVE Fest ;)

[Titchgamer]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

[schmerzkaufen]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

[Zebidee]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

Hmmm, maybe you mistook this for an Arcade 1up thread.

[csnow]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

I would like to see the negatives discussed here as well.  It will help people make informed decisions prior to purchase.  The entry fee for this is not insignificant, so the overall +'s and -'s should be evaluated against competing solutions.

[Titchgamer]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

I would like to see the negatives discussed here as well.  It will help people make informed decisions prior to purchase.  The entry fee for this is not insignificant, so it should be +'s and -'s should be evaluated against competing solutions.

Dont want a haters POV for that, You want reasoned negatives.

IMO the 2 biggest negatives are thus:

1) The cost - it aint cheap!
2) The limitations of the hardware. But depending on how you look at it thats not really a bad thing.

You may not be able to run PS2 or whatever perfectly.
But what it does run it runs really well.

[yotsuya]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

I would like to see the negatives discussed here as well.  It will help people make informed decisions prior to purchase.  The entry fee for this is not insignificant, so it should be +'s and -'s should be evaluated against competing solutions.

Dont want a haters POV for that, You want reasoned negatives.

IMO the 2 biggest negatives are thus:

1) The cost - it aint cheap!
2) The limitations of the hardware. But depending on how you look at it thats not really a bad thing.

You may not be able to run PS2 or whatever perfectly.
But what it does run it runs really well.

These are very fair points. As much as I love to tinker and like messing with new things, an off-lease PC capable of running MAME and a J-PAC are easily half the price. I’m just not sure how viable this would be for a lot of builders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Titchgamer]

Where is the MiSTer hate thread ? 

Up the Jacksie, Left at the ring piece and carry on up.

Ok, I don't mean to ruin people's purchaser's happiness, so I'll leave them enjoy the fantasy. 

I would like to see the negatives discussed here as well.  It will help people make informed decisions prior to purchase.  The entry fee for this is not insignificant, so it should be +'s and -'s should be evaluated against competing solutions.

Dont want a haters POV for that, You want reasoned negatives.

IMO the 2 biggest negatives are thus:

1) The cost - it aint cheap!
2) The limitations of the hardware. But depending on how you look at it thats not really a bad thing.

You may not be able to run PS2 or whatever perfectly.
But what it does run it runs really well.

These are very fair points. As much as I love to tinker and like messing with new things, an off-lease PC capable of running MAME and a J-PAC are easily half the price. I’m just not sure how viable this would be for a lot of builders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I dont think its really a casual/MAME cab type device.
Its really for people who want the old skool nostalgia with all its quirks but without all the hardware.

Many people sell their collection and replace with a Mister but I see mine as complimentary to it so I can play the same games but on my HDTV upscaled.

[Zeosstud]

So we are clear money wise..
$145 plus $14.50 shipping from Amazon got me the
DE10 Nano
Power Supply
8GB memory card..
You would need a USB hub also, like another $7
After running the update_all script, still have
5GB of space free..

You don't need the memory stick to play arcade cores, I put it in there just because I had one laying around.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[javeryh]

So we are clear money wise..
$145 plus $14.50 shipping from Amazon got me the
DE10 Nano
Power Supply
8GB memory card..
You would need a USB hub also, like another $7
After running the update_all script, still have
5GB of space free..

You don't need the memory stick to play arcade cores, I put it in there just because I had one laying around.

Not too bad actually.  Is a MiSTer an emulation board or does it run games like a BitKit off of "real" hardware/cores or whatever it's called?  I guess what I really want to know is can I play Donkey Kong (and DKII)?

[Zeosstud]

DK (US), DK (Japan), DK Foundry, DK Remix, DK Trainer are the ones I use the most, but there are dozens of others available..

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Zeosstud]

The MiSTer is a FPGA device, about as close to the real thing as you can get without owning a real board set..

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Titchgamer]

So we are clear money wise..
$145 plus $14.50 shipping from Amazon got me the
DE10 Nano
Power Supply
8GB memory card..
You would need a USB hub also, like another $7
After running the update_all script, still have
5GB of space free..

You don't need the memory stick to play arcade cores, I put it in there just because I had one laying around.

Not too bad actually.  Is a MiSTer an emulation board or does it run games like a BitKit off of "real" hardware/cores or whatever it's called?  I guess what I really want to know is can I play Donkey Kong (and DKII)?

Yup they are playable, I did a video on it a while back I linked on Page 1.
I dont play DK but hopefully will give you the idea

[bobbyb13]

So we are clear money wise..
$145 plus $14.50 shipping from Amazon got me the
DE10 Nano
Power Supply
8GB memory card..
You would need a USB hub also, like another $7
After running the update_all script, still have
5GB of space free..

You don't need the memory stick to play arcade cores, I put it in there just because I had one laying around.

Not too bad actually.  Is a MiSTer an emulation board or does it run games like a BitKit off of "real" hardware/cores or whatever it's called?  I guess what I really want to know is can I play Donkey Kong (and DKII)?

To be precise, it is still emulation, but it is emulation using hardware ( through a reprogrammable chip.)
The boards from craftymech and jrok are program on the fly chips just like a MiSTer.
Every time you run a game, a core is loaded which tells the chip via HDL what machine it is supposed to be.

When you switch to a new game which used different hardware the chip is reprogrammed with HDL to be a different machine.

All quite remarkable when you think of how many separate boards there came to be in later era machines.

[dmckean]

The hardware based simulation used on the cores on MiSTer (or BitKit and JROK) are created by taking the original schematics of the PCB boards and the chips used on the board and implementing them on the FPGA one transistor at a time. It's cycle accurate by default as the chips wouldn't even communicate with each other if timings were off.

For custom chips where no schematics exist, FPGA projects use two approaches. One approach is like the one used by the Neo Geo core where furrtek decapped the chips and studied them under a microscope and recreated them in FGPA. The other approach is to create a logical recreation by feeding data into the original chip and studying the output to figure out what it does and recreate that in FPGA.

The downside to MiSTer is it's very time consuming to make and debug cores and it's still very early in the project. It's also limited to recreating hardware up through the 90s. I don't think we'll ever see chips with 200 million+ transistors recreated in the FPGA.

[Gilrock]

Quick video of how you can lock down a MiSTer so it can only play Arcade Games..
-Zeosstud

See I would need different hardware to do that.  My button inputs cannot be programmed.  The Mister allowed me to map F12 to a 2 button combo but it does not allow me to map Alt-F12.  I'd need to get something like an IPAC for that.  I asked about adding the ability to map Alt-F12 on the Mister forum and only one reply with someone trying to convince me I don't need that feature.  I love it when people think they know what I need because they don't need it.

[Zeosstud]

100% on the money, I use an IPAC to map the buttons and of course to create the Macro that allows Alt-F12..  So some good news, the Mistercade apparently has a button combo
pre setup that accomplishes the same thing as Alt-F12, (Joystick 1 Down + Start Button) so when that comes out, hopefully in the summer, that might work out for you.

[Zeosstud]

Mister Arcade Games List from the Jump

On a clean install of MiSTer yesterday, when I ran the Update_All script, here is the list of Original Games it got for me

1941 Counter Attack -World 900227-
1942
1943 Kai Midway Kaisen
1943 Midway Kaisen
1943 The Battle of Midway Mark II
1943 The Battle of Midway
280Z-ZZAP
4-D Warriors
Adventure Quiz Capcom World 2 -Japan 920611-
Alibaba 40 Thieves
Alien Arena
Amazing Maze
Amidar
Anteater
Arkanoid (Japan)
Arkanoid (unl.lives, slower)
Arkanoid (Unlimited Lives)
Arkanoid (US)
Arkanoid (World)
Armored Car
Asteroids Deluxe
Asteroids
Attack Force
Azurian Attack
Bagman
Balloon Bomber
Battle of Atlantis
Battle Road
Beastie Feastie
Berzerk
Big Kong
Billiard
Bionic Commando
Birdiy
Black Hole
Black Tiger
Black Widow
Block Gal
Blue Shark
Bomb Jack
Boot Hill
Botanic
Breakout
Bubble Bobble (Japan, Ver 0.1)
Bubbles
Bullfight
Burger Time
BurningRubber
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (World 930201)
Calipso
Canyon Bomber
Captain Commando -World 911202-
Carrier Air Wing -World 901012-
Catacomb
Centipede (revision 4)
Centipede
Clean Sweep
Clowns
Colony 7
Combat School Joystick
Commando
Computer Space
Contra (US 3)
Cosmic Avenger
Cosmo
Crater Raider
Crazy Balloon
Crazy Climber
Crazy Kong (Orca bootleg)
Crazy Kong Part II
Crazy Kong
Crush Roller
Daimakaimura -Japan Resale Ver.-
Daimakaimura -Japan-
Dark Planet (no bkg)
Dark Planet
Defender
Demolition Derby
Devil Fish
Dig Dug
DigDug2
Discs of Tron
DoDonPachi (Arrange)
DoDonPachi (Japan)
DoDonPachi
Domino Man
Dominos
Donkey Kong (Japan set 1)
Donkey Kong (Spanish Crazy Kong bootleg)
Donkey Kong 3 (bootleg)
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong Junior
Donkey Kong
Dorodon
Double Dragon II - The Revenge
Double Dragon
Dream Shopper
Druaga
Dynasty Wars -USA, B-Board 89624B- -
Eeekk!
Eggor
Extra Bases
Eyes
F-1 Dream
Flicky
Food Fight
Forgotten Worlds -World, newer-
Frenzy
Frogger (Konami Bugfixed)
Frogger
Future Spy
Galaga (fast shoot) - HBMame
Galaga 3 (GP3 rev. D)
Galaga
Galaxian
Galaxy Wars
Ganbare! Marine Kun -Japan 2K0411-
Gaplus (GP2 rev. B)
Gauntlet (rev 14)
Gauntlet II
Gemini Wing
Ghosts'n Goblins (JT)
Ghouls'n Ghosts -patched-
Ghouls'n Ghosts -World-
Gorf - Program 1
Gorf - Speech
Gorf
Gorkans
Gorodki
Gravitar
Green Beret
Gulun.Pa_-_Prototype_1993_-_Japan_931220_L-
Gun Fight
Gun Smoke
Horizon
I'm Sorry
Jin
Journey
Joust
Jump Shot
Kick-Man
Kick
Kid Niki - Radical Ninja
King And Balloon
Knights of the Round -World 911127-
Konek Gorbunok
Kot-Rybolov
Kozmik Kroozr
Kung-Fu Master
Lady Bug
Laguna Racer
Legendary Wings
Lizard Wizard
Lode Runner II - The Bungeling Strikes Back
Lode Runner III - The Golden Labyrinth
Lode Runner IV - Teikoku Karano Dasshutsu
Lode Runner
Lost Tomb
Lucky Today
Lunar Battle
Lunar Lander
Lunar Rescue
Lupin III
Magic Sword  Heroic Fantasy -World 900725-
Mappy
Mario Bros
Mars
Max RPM
Mayday
Mega Man  The Power Battle -CPS1, USA 951006-
Mega Twins -World 900619-
Mercs -World 900302-
Mighty Monkey
Minefield
Mister Viking
Moon Cresta
Moon Patrol
Moonwar
Motos
Mr. Do Nightmare
Mr. Do
Mr. TNT
Ms. Pac-Man (speedup hack)
Ms. Pacman
Muscle Bomber Duo Ultimate Team Battle (World 931206)
My Hero
Nemo -World 901130-
New Rally-X
Ninjakun
Omega
Orbitron
Pac-Man (Midway)
Pacman Club
Pacman Plus
Pacmanic Miner
Pang! 3 -Euro 950601-
Pengo
Pest Place
Phoenix
Pickin'
Pirate Ship Higemaru
Pisces
Pitfall II (unencypted, cheat)
Pitfall II
Playball
Pleiads (Centuri)
Pleiads (Tehkan)
Pleiads
Pnickies -Japan 940608-
Pokonyan! Balloon -Japan 940322-
PolyPlay 2
PolyPlay 2c
PolyPlay
Pong
Ponpoko
Pooyan
Popeye
Power Drive
Puck Man (Japan set 1)
QBert
Quiz %26 Dragons  Capcom Quiz Game -USA 920701-
Quiz Tonosama no Yabou 2  Zenkoku-ban -Japan 950123-
Radar Scope
Rafflesia
Rally-X
Rampage
Regulus
Rescue
River Patrol
Robby Roto
Robotron 2084
Rush'n Attack (US)
Rygar
Sarge
Satans Hollow
Saturday Night Slam Masters (World 930713)
Scramble
Sea Wolf
Seawolf II
SectionZ
Sega Ninja
Shot Rider
Shuffleboard
Shuttle Invader
Side Arms - Hyper Dyne (World, 861129)
Silkworm
Silver Land
Sinistar
Sky Skipper
Snap Jack
Snezhnaja Koroleva
Solar Fox
Solomon no Kagi (Japan)
Solomon's Key
SOS
Space Chaser
Space Encounters
Space Invaders II (Midway, cocktail)
Space Invaders Part II
Space Invaders
Space Race
Space Zap
Spatter
Speed Coin
Spelunker II - 23 no Kagi
Spelunker
Splat
Sprint 1
Sprint 2
Spy Hunter
Squash
Star Guards
Star Jacker (alt)
Star Jacker
Stargate
Strategy X
Street Fighter (US, set 1)
Street Fighter II  The World Warrior -World 910522-
Street Fighter II'  Champion Edition -World 920513-
Street Fighter II'  Hyper Fighting -World 921209-
Street Fighter Zero -CPS Changer, Japan 951020-
Strider -USA, B-Board 89624B-2-
Super Bagman
Super Breakout
Super Cobra
Super Glob
Super Zaxxon
Swat
Tapper
Tazz-Mania
TeddyBoy Blues
Tetris (cocktail set 1)
Tetris
The End (bkg)
The End
The Glob
The King of Dragons -World 910805-
The Punisher (World 930422)
Three Wonders -World 910520-
Tiger Road
Timber
Time Pilot '84 (Set 1)
Time Pilot '84 (Set 2)
Time Pilot '84 (Set 3)
Time Pilot
Tokio - Scramble Formation (bootleg)
Traverse USA - Zippy Race
Trojan (Romstar)
Tron
Turbo Tag
Turtles
Two Tigers
U.N. Squadron -USA-
Ultra Tank
UniWar S
Up'n Down
Van-Van Car
Varth  Operation Thunderstorm -World 920714-
Victory
Vindicators Part II (rev 3)
Vortex
Vulgus
Wacko
War of the Bugs
Warriors of Fate (World 921031)
Water Match
Willow -World-
Wizard of Wor - Speech
Wizard of Wor
Wonder Boy
Woodpecker
Xevious
Youjyuden
Zaxxon
Zig Zag

That is 335 games if my count is correct, In addition to that there are also Alternates to the games, an example would be Galaga with Fast Shoot enabled, or
Ms Pac-Man Speed Up version..  I did not count all of those, but here is the list..

I am attaching the full list here, but for @Javeryh  Here are the Donkey Kong Alternates

 Directory of D:\_Arcade\alternatives_\_Donkey Kong

Naked Donkey Kong - HBMame
Donkey Kong (2600 graphics) - HBMame
Donkey Kong (US set 1 with barrel control coloring) - HBMame
Donkey Kong Foundry (hack)
Donkey Kong (hard kit)
Donkey Kong (Japan set 1)
Donkey Kong Pace - HBMame
Donkey Kong (2 marios) - HBMame
Donkey Kong Pauline Edition Rev 5 (2013-04-22)
Donkey Kong (Pacman graphics) - HBMame
Rainbow Donkey Kong - HBMame
Donkey Kong (US set 2)
Donkey Kong (Japan set 2)
Donkey Kong Freerun Edition - HBMame
Donkey Kong (patched) - HBMame
Donkey Kong Foundry - HBMame
Donkey Kong Reverse - HBMame
Donkey Kong Remix demo 1.8 - HBMame
Donkey Kong Trainer 1.01 - HBMame
Donkey Kong (Japan set 3)

[javeryh]

Wow nice.  I assume you can toggle games on and off if you don't want them to appear in the list?  Like if you don't have a spinner you wouldn't want Arkanoid...

[Titchgamer]

You can just delete them.

[Zebidee]

Rainbow Donkey Kong - HBMame

Gay Mario? Explains the moustache.

[dmckean]

You can just delete them.

They just come back when you run update again. I think there might be a way to exclude them from the updates in an ini file.

What's also needed is a favorites list as this a an issue that will only grow as more and more cores are added.

[Titchgamer]

You can just delete them.

They just come back when you run update again. I think there might be a way to exclude them from the updates in an ini file.

What's also needed is a favorites list as this a an issue that will only grow as more and more cores are added.

Yeah there is a way to stop them updating I think but never done it.

Yeah a faves list would be great!

[Zeosstud]

On my main MiSTer I simply made a Favorites folder and added the.mra files into it, works great and it does not get messed up when you update.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Titchgamer]

On my main MiSTer I simply made a Favorites folder and added the.mra files into it, works great and it does not get messed up when you update.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I did the same, But be nice to have a proper automatic one.

[lettuce]

Ghouls'n Ghosts -patched-
Ghouls'n Ghosts -World-

whats different about the patched version??

[bobbyb13]

And so it begins...

mwahahahahahahaha 

Damn thing cost a days pay so hopefully I can get it to work.

The update script left me wondering how it could all be this easy (even with my currently glacial internet connection) so wondering what I will find once I fire it up and plug it into a monitor.

[Titchgamer]

Congrats man! Enjoy!

[Zebidee]

I'm getting excited!!!   

It has also been occurring to me that I don't currently have a suitable JAMMA cabinet available for the Mistercade I pre-ordered so I guess there'll be a new build thread soon.

[bobbyb13]

I'm getting excited!!!   

It has also been occurring to me that I don't currently have a suitable JAMMA cabinet available for the Mistercade I pre-ordered so I guess there'll be a new build thread soon.

Even more fun that this mayhem will induce another build!
Like you weren't busy already
 

[Gilrock]

I'm getting excited!!!   

It has also been occurring to me that I don't currently have a suitable JAMMA cabinet available for the Mistercade I pre-ordered so I guess there'll be a new build thread soon.

Ditto...If I could just find a CRT.

[javeryh]

And so it begins...

mwahahahahahahaha 

Damn thing cost a days pay so hopefully I can get it to work.

The update script left me wondering how it could all be this easy (even with my currently glacial internet connection) so wondering what I will find once I fire it up and plug it into a monitor.

Niiiiice.  Make sure you take lots of pics for your build thread in case someone wants to do something similar... 

[Titchgamer]

Nice!

[bobbyb13]

And so it begins...

mwahahahahahahaha 

Damn thing cost a days pay so hopefully I can get it to work.

The update script left me wondering how it could all be this easy (even with my currently glacial internet connection) so wondering what I will find once I fire it up and plug it into a monitor.

Niiiiice.  Make sure you take lots of pics for your build thread in case someone wants to do something similar... 

I'm still trying to finish the S.S. Marshmallow myself (the build that the MiSTer IS actually intended to go in) but I think we need to keep an eye on Zebidee for a project announcement at this point.

I'm getting excited!!!   

It has also been occurring to me that I don't currently have a suitable JAMMA cabinet available for the Mistercade I pre-ordered so I guess there'll be a new build thread soon.

Ditto...If I could just find a CRT.

And it's too bad the things are so stupid to ship Gilrock, or I would send you a TV.
Are there no curbside/dumpster/craigslist tubes in your neighborhood any longer?

[javeryh]

And it's too bad the things are so stupid to ship Gilrock, or I would send you a TV.
Are there no curbside/dumpster/craigslist tubes in your neighborhood any longer?

I don't know where Gilrock is but around the NYC area they are tough to come by.  We have a recycling place in town but you aren't allowed to take - I've been yelled at plenty of times rummaging through the shipping container where they put everything and even then I almost never see tubes (the screens are mostly old LCD TVs). Maybe I'm just not getting lucky though

[dmckean]

And it's too bad the things are so stupid to ship Gilrock, or I would send you a TV.
Are there no curbside/dumpster/craigslist tubes in your neighborhood any longer?

I don't know where Gilrock is but around the NYC area they are tough to come by.  We have a recycling place in town but you aren't allowed to take - I've been yelled at plenty of times rummaging through the shipping container where they put everything and even then I almost never see tubes (the screens are mostly old LCD TVs). Maybe I'm just not getting lucky though

There's a bunch of $50 arcade monitors here:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/vgm/d/stamford-arcade-game-monitors/7295537871.html

And a TV with component inputs here:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/ele/d/tarrytown-philips-crt-tv-sony/7290344787.html

The search terms I use are "crt tv" "crt monitor" "not a flat screen" "trinitron" "tube tv" "arcade monitor"

[dmckean]

Ghouls'n Ghosts -patched-
Ghouls'n Ghosts -World-

whats different about the patched version??

I guess the patched version boots straight into the game rather than going through the boot up tests.

[pbj]

There's a bunch of $50 arcade monitors here:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/vgm/d/stamford-arcade-game-monitors/7295537871.html

And a TV with component inputs here:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/ele/d/tarrytown-philips-crt-tv-sony/7290344787.html

The search terms I use are "crt tv" "crt monitor" "not a flat screen" "trinitron" "tube tv" "arcade monitor"

 

Pwnt

[Gilrock]

Yeah I don't think there are a lot of CRT's to find in Tucson, AZ either.  I've only seen TVs with composite inputs and not sure if they would be conversion candidates.  And dealing with anyone on Craiglist sucks.  I was trying to buy an arcade cab a couple weeks ago and I call on Wed and the guy says he can't show it till the weekend.  So I email on Friday and say I'm ready to come over with the money just tell me where you are.  No reply.  I text him Saturday and said hey I want this just give me the location and time to meet.  No reply.  Then Sunday he texts me and says hey do you still want this I haven't been able to contact the guy that was supposed to come look at it.  I said yes I can come right now give me the address.  Doesn't reply for 2 hours and then texts and says sorry the guy came by and took it.  What an ---uvula---.  I was ready to drive over there Wed and would have paid above asking.

[dmckean]

Yeah I don't think there are a lot of CRT's to find in Tucson, AZ either.  I've only seen TVs with composite inputs and not sure if they would be conversion candidates.  And dealing with anyone on Craiglist sucks.  I was trying to buy an arcade cab a couple weeks ago and I call on Wed and the guy says he can't show it till the weekend.  So I email on Friday and say I'm ready to come over with the money just tell me where you are.  No reply.  I text him Saturday and said hey I want this just give me the location and time to meet.  No reply.  Then Sunday he texts me and says hey do you still want this I haven't been able to contact the guy that was supposed to come look at it.  I said yes I can come right now give me the address.  Doesn't reply for 2 hours and then texts and says sorry the guy came by and took it.  What an ---uvula---.  I was ready to drive over there Wed and would have paid above asking.

Dealing with people always sucks. It is what it is though.

This is really neat, A PAL TV with Scart in the US, you would need a transformer to use it but it would be awesome for cores like Amiga where half of the games are PAL.
https://tucson.craigslist.org/zip/d/tucson-panasonic-20-inch-uk-tv/7290952926.html

Also, I would email or text this person and ask for the model number, tell them it's located on the back.
https://tucson.craigslist.org/ele/d/tucson-sony-tv-trinitron/7295355904.html

[pbj]

If they aren’t available to sell it or buy it on the next non-school day, the trade ain’t happening.  I’ve been mistaken once in 20 years with this rule of thumb.  Cash in hand pbj offer and I pick it up Saturday morning.  Take it or leave it.