your thoughts on current 4-way joysticks please

[Jimbo]

I'm looking to make a vertical "classics" cab.  I've seen a few posts from years ago asking "what's the best 4-way joystick", but wondered what you guys are using these days.

I'd like something that feels good and as authentic as possible for the vertical classics (pac-man, dk, frogger, moon cresta, galaxians etc).

I've read people talk about a JLW with a 4-way restrictor, and a GGG pac-pro.  Has anyone used these and can give some reviews?  Or suggest something else worth considering?

Cheers 

James

[javeryh]

I’d also like some opinions.  I usually use a JLF with a 4-way restrictor plate and I like it but I’m open to suggestions. 

Why do I have a feeling that we are about to see some 4-way vertical cabs pop up here this summer?  Hmmm...

[SORHP]

My preferences from years of experience ... 

Nintendo 4 way joystick is the best, it’s small ball and short throw without a super tight Spring makes it perfect for precision and finesse.  You can get a brand new one from mikesarcade.com if you cannot locate a good used one

The sanwa is great, the 4 way diamond restrictor help the motions to be smooth and precise, it has a longer throw, but you get used to it over time, the ball is the standard modern size, it looks great when customized, It can take a beating, the parts are cheap to replace.

The seimetsu is also a nice choice

Sanwa and seimetsu are really made for modern games from the late 80’s on, they’re amazing when modified for shmups or fighting games.

Really you can’t go wrong with either in my opinion

You may also want to try out a stick that uses leaf switches, like an original Pac-Man stick,

I don’t recommend Playing Nintendo games with a leaf switch joystick, but I don’t have a problem playing Pac-Man style games with a Microswitch joystick

[csnow]

I tried many and they all felt off for what I remembered growing up so I ended up going with an original Ms Pacman leaf joystick.  I added a period correct leaf fire button to the CP as well.  I couldn't be happier now..  Almost all 4 ways back then were leaf except DK which had a microswitch.  If you didn't grow up playing those machines from that era, I would suggest the Ms Pac/Galaga reunion 4 way joystick.  It works well enough and that is the cabinet I swapped the original Ms Pacman control panel into. It just felt a bit "off" for me compared to the original but for anyone outside that era its a good choice.  I play DK on that leaf as well and don't have any issues but I am not "serious" DK high score chasing guy.  With that said, it is one of my all-time favorites, so I play it often.

[leapinlew]

For me, it has to be a diamond pattern physically restricted leaf stick. My out of the box preference is a WICO 4 way leaf. It has a large ball top and it feels right for the pacman style games, but also does great with the 2 way vertical shooters and Nintendo games.

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement. I don't have experience with this stick, but I would have high hopes to try it: https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=402

[Jimbo]

Thanks guys... phew quite a few choices.

I just remembered I have a pac-pro on a panel I did a few years ago at work.  I hardly ever used it so I think I'll pop in and see how it feels.

I also have tried the dominux8 with a 4-way restrictor, but to me that felt really loose and with a long throw (mind you I guess at the time I was comparing it to the pac-pro).

I'm looking to definitely have this vertical cab with Donkey Kong as one of the games.  I'm hoping that if I go for a leaf switch joystick it won't negatively affect DK too much (I'm no DK expert, but from memory it played "ok" with the pac-pro).

[csnow]

For me, it has to be a diamond pattern physically restricted leaf stick. My out of the box preference is a WICO 4 way leaf. It has a large ball top and it feels right for the pacman style games, but also does great with the 2 way vertical shooters and Nintendo games.

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement. I don't have experience with this stick, but I would have high hopes to try it: https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=402

Wico 4 way leaf is a definite winner.  I bought one so I could add a trackball to my reunion cab for Cent/Millipede since the repro 3 button track ball CPs are plentiful for those Midway cabs.  I remember it showing up in the mail but I cant for the life of me figure out where in the heck I put it.  I am right in the middle of a large home remodel so its probably buried somewhere.  Hopefully, I can find it.

[Jimbo]

I'd love to try a wico 4-way one, but currently it looks like arcadeshop.com are not shipping to the UK.

[Jimbo]

The sanwa is great, the 4 way diamond restrictor help the motions to be smooth and precise, it has a longer throw, but you get used to it over time, the ball is the standard modern size, it looks great when customized, It can take a beating, the parts are cheap to replace.

Can you point me to which Sanwa you mean?   

[thomas_surles]

I use the ggg leaf pro on my galaga cab. Coming from a donkey kong player, I like the leaf better than the nintendo original. I've never been able to blame my controls for dying. Play some sped up pacman and get use to the responsiveness or whatever. I heard the pac pro is better but can't confirm.

[SORHP]

The sanwa is great, the 4 way diamond restrictor help the motions to be smooth and precise, it has a longer throw, but you get used to it over time, the ball is the standard modern size, it looks great when customized, It can take a beating, the parts are cheap to replace.

Can you point me to which Sanwa you mean?   

SANWA JLF-TP-8YT Original Joystick Red - for Arcade Jamma Game 4 & 8 Way Adjustable, Compatible with Catz Mad SF4 Tournament Joystick (Red Ball Top) S@NWA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005BIC9QE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_0425GV874KD9JT1B8CAD

SANWA GT-8F 4/8 Way Restrictor Plate Gate JLF Series Joystick (1 Pcs GT-8F) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GDJHBKC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PA53VTT44KPRTEJJJ3T6

Do this mod for a shorter throw

https://focusattack.com/kowal-1mm-oversize-actuator-for-sanwa-jlf-series-joystick/

[Zeosstud]

Thanks guys... phew quite a few choices.

I just remembered I have a pac-pro on a panel I did a few years ago at work.  I hardly ever used it so I think I'll pop in and see how it feels.

I also have tried the dominux8 with a 4-way restrictor, but to me that felt really loose and with a long throw (mind you I guess at the time I was comparing it to the pac-pro).

I'm looking to definitely have this vertical cab with Donkey Kong as one of the games.  I'm hoping that if I go for a leaf switch joystick it won't negatively affect DK too much (I'm no DK expert, but from memory it played "ok" with the pac-pro).

I for sure would be interested in your findings on the pac-pro.. For some reason they are currently not available to order from GGG, I reached out to see if I could get an answer when they might show back up but have not see the answer just yet.

-Zeosstud

[Jimbo]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

[Rockstead]

When I was looking for this info awhile back and digging though tons of older threads, the reunion 4-way seems to have come up as the best 4-way but I don’t see anyone mentioning it.

[KenToad]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

[Jimbo]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

Yeah thanks for the warning.  In this case I have ordered it from a UK company that I've used many times before, but wise words.  There are a lot of dodgy sellers out there! 

[Rockstead]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

Yeah thanks for the warning.  In this case I have ordered it from a UK company that I've used many times before, but wise words.  There are a lot of dodgy sellers out there! 

So seems like Tornado Terry moved his stuff to eBay only, I found his store, read the full description of his 4-way.

Again, reading back old threads and Tornado Terry’s was considered to be the best 4-way as far as I can tell.

Maybe some old timers here can chime in on that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MS-PAC-MAN-BALL-TOP-4-WAY-JOYSTICK-JAMMA-MAME-ARCADE-1-UP-NEW-DRAGONS-LAIR-/260538111712?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

[bobbyb13]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

Yeah thanks for the warning.  In this case I have ordered it from a UK company that I've used many times before, but wise words.  There are a lot of dodgy sellers out there! 

There is a short list of people I buy new parts from- and none of them are random sellers on amazon or ebay.

Ultimarc
GroovyGameGear
ArcadeShop
ParadiseArcadeShop

[Rockstead]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

Yeah thanks for the warning.  In this case I have ordered it from a UK company that I've used many times before, but wise words.  There are a lot of dodgy sellers out there! 

There is a short list of people I buy new parts from- and none of them are random sellers on amazon or ebay.

Ultimarc
GroovyGameGear
ArcadeShop
ParadiseArcadeShop

I agree but Tornado Terry is the exception, no idea why he would run an eBay store only, but then again his website was from the early 90s, this is clearly a don’t judge a book by its cover.

Google his 4-way and watch how man topics come up by members on this board and others when looking for the best 4-way for Pac-Man.

[bobbyb13]

Thanks I'll grab one of those JLFs and the mod for the shorter throw.

Will be testing/comparing a few of these 4-way joysticks soon (including the pac-pro) and will post results.  Might take me a few weeks though.

 

Just a word of warning to be very careful ordering from Amazon, as a lot of fake/clone products are sold there. Looking at the first Sanwa listing linked above, one of the first reviews mention it not being a genuine product. There are also a lot of fake reviews. Probably best would be to order from a trusted retailer like Arcade Shock or Focus attack.

Yeah thanks for the warning.  In this case I have ordered it from a UK company that I've used many times before, but wise words.  There are a lot of dodgy sellers out there! 

There is a short list of people I buy new parts from- and none of them are random sellers on amazon or ebay.

Ultimarc
GroovyGameGear
ArcadeShop
ParadiseArcadeShop

I agree but Tornado Terry is the exception, no idea why he would run an eBay store only, but then again his website was from the early 90s, this is clearly a don’t judge a book by its cover.

Google his 4-way and watch how man topics come up by members on this board and others when looking for the best 4-way for Pac-Man.

Brick and mortar storefronts are expensive- even more so than fleabay fees- especially if you do a lot of biz online lately.

Looks like the Tornado family is rebuilding a website and has a cool venue anyway.

Agreed that would not be some random person!

There are others of course, I just listed my go-to places from way out here.

I'm still bummed the Paradise crew had to move back to the mainland.

[Jimbo]

There is a short list of people I buy new parts from- and none of them are random sellers on amazon or ebay.

Ultimarc
GroovyGameGear
ArcadeShop
ParadiseArcadeShop

Unfortunately GroovyGameGear has decided not to sell to the UK.  I tried yesterday to order a couple of 4-way joysticks to test, but they disallow shipping to the UK.  I emailed them and it doesn't look like they will resume shipping to the UK any time soon either, despite me being a long-time repeat customer of theirs.     Mikesarcade on the other hand were brilliant, I have a package coming with a DK joystick and a midway 4-way so I'll add them to my test panel!

So my comparison will be missing a Dominux8 with a 4-way restrictor, and their Leaf Pro.

Currently I will be comparing:
Repro DK joystick from mikesarcade
Pac-Pro (happened to have one in a box already)
Repro Wico 4-way from arcadeshop
Sanwa JLF (will also test with short throw mod and stiffer springs)
Midway 4-way

I will choose a variety of games, pac-man, DK, probably GnG.  If anyone can think of any other 4-way games that would be good to test, let me know.

I will mock up a test panel or two when all the joysticks arrive, and will probably do a comparison video.  It's just a shame those 2 joysticks from GGG won't be part of it.   

[KenToad]

The arcade version of Bomber Man World (bbmanw rom, not Neo Bomberman) is one of the worst I've experienced when it comes to handling diagonals, at least in MAME .201. Your Bomber will kind of snap back and forth around the corners, often into the path of explosions. Even with the 4-way restrictor from GGG, playing the game with a Happ super joystick wasn't great.

Are any of the joysticks you're testing like the ones Tornado Terrys sells? Those were historically some of the most popular options on this site, as discussed above.

Thanks for doing this. Looking forward to hearing the results!

[Jimbo]

ok noted, I'll add that game into the test.  Might be a few weeks till I get started though.

I have no idea about Tornado Terry, never heard of him before.  I'm in the UK and ebay says he doesn't ship to the UK.  If a forum'er can get a legit one (for metal panel) and doesn't mind shipping it over to me I'll obviously pay for it, and will include it into my comparison. 

BTW - I just received a Sanwa JLF (same model as linked to above), and switched the stock restrictor plate to 4-way.  It appears that in 4-way mode it doesn't fully disengage the old direction when moving to a new one (e.g. when going from left to up, there is a moment when both microswitches are pressed simultaneously).

[Zeosstud]

Looking forward to your reviews..  I have recently been testing the same things.. 
*Dominux8 with 4 way restrictor
JLF with 4 way restrictor .9lb spring
JLF with 4 way restrictor 2lb spring
JLF with 4 way restrictor 4lb spring
Tornado Terry 4 way
ServoStik in 4 way mode

Not a super scientific test.. Boot up Pac-Man, cheat my way to the 9th key.. playing on Grooveymame .227 to kill all the latency possible, play the game..
Play Donkey Kong (Japan)
Play Pengo

For me, the winner was the JLF with 2lb spring..

*I have a couple of the Dominux8 sticks where I had to dremel off one of the corners to make it fit in a control panel, this for sure could effect how the
stick played.. I am actually a big fan of these sticks, I use them in my JRoK Robotron in 8 way mode obviously..

I have a Reunion Pac-Man stick coming with the longer shaft for wood control panels that will be tested soon..

-Zeosstud

[Jimbo]

Nice!  I'm not even going to try a ServoStik - I tried one before in 8-way mode and hated it lol.

I also bought the 2lb and 4lb extra springs for the Sanwas, so will try them both as well as the stock one.  Looks like I've got a kind forummer to sort me out with a Tornado Terry 4-way and the GGG sticks so I should have a good bunch of sticks for my comparison.

All my testing will be on groovymame with a CRT.  I'll probably be using a USB I-PAC as the interface for the controls.

Current game list to test will be:
Donkey Kong
Pac-Man
Bomber Man World
Pengo
Ghosts 'n' Goblins
Probably a couple of 2-ways (Galaga/Moon Cresta/etc)

Any more that would be a good test please let me know.

[Zeosstud]

I agree with you 100% on the ServoStik in 8 way mode, it makes me sad, but it is just a fact.. I will most likely just sell mine..

-Zeosstud

[RandyT]

Unfortunately GroovyGameGear has decided not to sell to the UK.  I tried yesterday to order a couple of 4-way joysticks to test, but they disallow shipping to the UK.  I emailed them and it doesn't look like they will resume shipping to the UK any time soon either, despite me being a long-time repeat customer of theirs.  

Apologies for the thread derailment, but I thought it important to share exactly why we decided to no longer ship to the UK.  The short of it is potentially stiff consequences for the seller if they do not comply with the new, draconian VAT tax registration, collection and reporting requirements on sellers outside of the UK.  We have unfortunately had to do the same with the state of Kansas due to similar requirements from only that state in our fine Union, so the UK isn't being singled out by us.

For more info on the UK seller restrictions:  https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/brexit-uk-vat-for-eu---us-ecommerce-sellers.html

We just don't do enough UK business to justify dedicating our limited resources to such things.  Trust me, it annoys me as much as it does you! 

[Jimbo]

Unfortunately GroovyGameGear has decided not to sell to the UK.  I tried yesterday to order a couple of 4-way joysticks to test, but they disallow shipping to the UK.  I emailed them and it doesn't look like they will resume shipping to the UK any time soon either, despite me being a long-time repeat customer of theirs.  

Apologies for the thread derailment, but I thought it important to share exactly why we decided to no longer ship to the UK.  The short of it is potentially stiff consequences for the seller if they do not comply with the new, draconian VAT tax registration, collection and reporting requirements on sellers outside of the UK.  We have unfortunately had to do the same with the state of Kansas due to similar requirements from only that state in our fine Union, so the UK isn't being singled out by us.

For more info on the UK seller restrictions:  https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/brexit-uk-vat-for-eu---us-ecommerce-sellers.html

We just don't do enough UK business to justify dedicating our limited resources to such things.  Trust me, it annoys me as much as it does you!

You have to do all that even if the value is over £135?

[Gilrock]

I just ordered 4 wat and 8 way Dominux8 sticks yesterday for my vertical classics setup.  I've already used these in another build and can't imagine anything feeling better to me.  But joysticks are like food not everyone is going to like the same thing.  Some nutballs out there don't like pizza.

[pbj]

Mail the joysticks to me, I'll slap a label on them and remail to the UK as a gift for the cost of shipping.  I do not give a ---fudgesicle--- about your government and their taxes.

 

[Jimbo]

Mail the joysticks to me, I'll slap a label on them and remail to the UK as a gift for the cost of shipping.  I do not give a ---fudgesicle--- about your government and their taxes.

 

Thanks pbj that's very kind of you - I have managed to sort it in this instance though!   

[Grasshopper]

Yeah, I found out about the new VAT rules when I ordered something from Aliexpress about a month ago. When I got to the checkout, they slapped on an extra 20% tax! At first I thought it was a scam, but no, after further research, this does appear to be a genuine change to the rules.

It's actually got nothing to do with Brexit. This is an EU-wide rule change that was supposed to come into effect from the 1st January 2021 for all EU member states. However, the EU decided to postpone the effective date to the 1st July 2021 because of all the disruption caused by the pandemic. For some reason, the UK decided to stick with the original implementation date.

I've got mixed feelings about it. No one likes paying taxes. But it kind of makes sense when you consider the wider geo-political situation. Chinese sellers generally take the piss when it comes to customs declarations. They tend to either mis-declare the item as being a gift, or they give it an artificially low purchase price. That's great for consumers, but not so good for governments that need to raise taxes somehow. It's also not so good for western companies who tend to be more honest when completing customs declarations. That puts them at a competitive disadvantage when compared to their Chinese counterparts.

Prior to my recent Aliexpress purchase, I'd never paid a penny in tax for anything I'd purchased from China. However, over the years, I've paid a huge amount of tax on items purchased from other countries such as the US. I also have to pay tax on any items purchased from withing the UK, as the tax is automatically included in the purchase price. This rule change does at least level the playing field a little.

[Grasshopper]

Getting back to joysticks, I wouldn't rule out the mag-Stik set to 4-way mode. It's quite stiff, and not to everyone's taste. However, I've heard that its feel is massively improved if you swap out (or modify) the microswitches to make them softer.

For example, check out this guy's video:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=143797.0

[Jimbo]

The trouble with the magstik for me is that it's a bat-top joystick.  Most of the old 4-way classics used a ball top, a bat just feels wrong to me.  Although I admit I don't actually know whether you can swap the handle to a ball on the magstik!

[Grasshopper]

Yes, you can swap the handle to a ball. For example, check out this Spanish seller:

https://www.arcadexpress.com/en/joysticks/223-407-joystick-magnetico-bola-industrias-lorenzo.html#/11-colour-black

I believe Ultimarc also offers ball handles if you prefer to order from the UK.

[Jimbo]

Thanks I'll take a look! 

[RandyT]

This is an EU-wide rule change that was supposed to come into effect from the 1st January 2021 for all EU member states. However, the EU decided to postpone the effective date to the 1st July 2021 because of all the disruption caused by the pandemic. For some reason, the UK decided to stick with the original implementation date.

Hopefully the EU has carved out exemptions for small companies as we have in the US (except for Kansas) or the number of areas we ship to are going to get a lot smaller.  What this will basically do is force small companies like GGG onto marketplace platforms, and increase costs for consumers, under the guise of "leveling the playing field", which it will never do because it has no bearing on the fixed costs to produce the goods in question.  It's not much different from the 25% tariff imposed by the Trump admin here in the US on goods from China.  It's advertised as a penalty on them, but in reality, it does nothing more than penalize consumers and businesses who buy Chinese goods, while insuring  that the government gets a larger cut of the proceeds.

In short, these policies will never hurt China.  They will just increase the government subsidies and/or cut more corners and consumers will continue to buy Chinese goods, over higher priced domestic offerings.

[Zeosstud]

How is the comparison coming along?

[Jimbo]

How is the comparison coming along?

Still waiting for a few sticks to come in the post.  I've already drilled one massive metal test panel ready for them all (all 12 of them!).  I figured I wanted ALL of the joysticks working and at hand when testing so I can quickly switch between them to try and notice any small idiosyncracies between similar sticks.  Some might label me mad (me included).  I figured I'd go the whole hog and it's a fun project anyway and I have a bit of free time.  Plan is to do an in-depth comparison video.

I will have the following joysticks on the panel (all set to 4-way where needed): -

Wico 4-way leaf
GGG Dominux8
GGG Leaf Pro
GGG Pac-Pro
Sanwa JLF
Sanwa JLW
Seimitsu LS-32
Australia MCA
IL Mag-Stick
Nintendo DK stick
Happ/Midway Reunion
Tornado Terry's

Current game list to test is: -

Donkey Kong
Pac-Man
Bomber Man World
Pengo
Ghosts 'n' Goblins
Probably a couple of 2-ways (Galaga/Moon Cresta/etc)

Will be a few weeks yet by the time I've received the remaining sticks, wired them up and taken the video/done the comparison.

If anyone can think of other games that would be good to test with I'm all ears.   

[Zeosstud]

You are mad.. I love it.. Can not wait to watch the video.. I really like the Dominux8 sticks but for me, and for the money and availability, the Sanwa JLFs with a 2lb spring have won out. Just posted a personal best with this combo on my Vertical MiSTer pedestal. 650k..

Zeosstud

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Jimbo]

You won't be the first to say I'm mad, or the last, I expect. 

I already spotted with the Sanwas that it seems you can hit the diagonals with the restrictor gate in the 4-way position.  We'll see how that affects some of the games soon enough I guess.

I've got a 2lb and a 4lb spring on order for the JLF, and the kowal mod for shorter throw.  I already don't like the stock throw of the JLF so I'm hoping the kowal mod will improve things.  The Seimitsu LS-32 on the other hand has a lovely short throw, and you can't hit the diagonals.

But... I'll let the playtesting do all the talking, and not judge a book by its cover.

[bobbyb13]

How is the comparison coming along?

Still waiting for a few sticks to come in the post.  I've already drilled one massive metal test panel ready for them all (all 12 of them!).  I figured I wanted ALL of the joysticks working and at hand when testing so I can quickly switch between them to try and notice any small idiosyncracies between similar sticks.  Some might label me mad (me included).  I figured I'd go the whole hog and it's a fun project anyway and I have a bit of free time.  Plan is to do an in-depth comparison video.

I will have the following joysticks on the panel (all set to 4-way where needed): -

Wico 4-way leaf
GGG Dominux8
GGG Leaf Pro
GGG Pac-Pro
Sanwa JLF
Sanwa JLW
Seimitsu LS-32
Australia MCA
IL Mag-Stick
Nintendo DK stick
Happ/Midway Reunion
Tornado Terry's

Current game list to test is: -

Donkey Kong
Pac-Man
Bomber Man World
Pengo
Ghosts 'n' Goblins
Probably a couple of 2-ways (Galaga/Moon Cresta/etc)

Will be a few weeks yet by the time I've received the remaining sticks, wired them up and taken the video/done the comparison.

If anyone can think of other games that would be good to test with I'm all ears.   

The fine line between madness and genius.
Brilliant test idea.

Looking forward to hearing/seeing your results!

[RandyT]

While I applaud the effort, given the entirely subjective nature of joysticks in general, I believe that outside of any of them being outright awful, your conclusions would be based very much on personal preference.  Unless of course you plan to bring in a half-dozen or so other players from different backgrounds to assist in your endeavor.  Some won't want to even bother using a spring-based centering 4-way, regardless of performance, while others won't care as long as it works.  Others still, who have become used to the controls in the original games, won't even consider using something else.  You get the idea.

Also, good 4-way sticks by their nature make pretty poor controllers for 2-way games.  While they do offer better restriction than an 8-way, an 8-way is generally better for these, as restriction tends not to be as important for a two-way title.  There's only two valid and very separated directions, and a properly mapped control can't help but hit them...quickly.  The switch actuation can also be much tighter (very important for these) without concern for excessive "cross-over", which would destroy 4-way play.

There are a LOT of joysticks offered and used by a LOT of different people.  If there were one, or even two "best" joysticks, this wouldn't be the case.

[Jimbo]

The fine line between madness and genius.
Brilliant test idea.

Looking forward to hearing/seeing your results!

Thanks, it'll be fun!

[Grasshopper]

I've got a 2lb and a 4lb spring on order for the JLF, and the kowal mod for shorter throw.  I already don't like the stock throw of the JLF so I'm hoping the kowal mod will improve things.  The Seimitsu LS-32 on the other hand has a lovely short throw, and you can't hit the diagonals.

It might also be worth checking out a Seimitsu LS-32 fitted with a stiffer spring. I'm not sure whether you can buy the springs separately, but a Seimitsu LS-32 fitted with a stiffer spring is called a Seimistu LS-38.

[pbj]

I'm just happy when a joystick works when it hits every direction.  Not my usual experience in the arcade.

[Jimbo]

Whilst waiting for the last few joysticks to arrive, I thought I'd share some info on what I'm hoping to achieve, and also show some progress in the setup.

The point of this is for me to get to know a bunch of 4-way sticks and figure out (mainly for myself) which ones I like best for which types of games.  I understand that this will be highly subjective, but perhaps some commonalities of feel will present themselves, and if people end up using this as at least a starting point then I will be glad I helped someone.  The aim is not to find one or two "winning" sticks that suit all 4-way games, but I will probably end up recommending one or two for those that just want a single 4-way for, say, a vertical classics cab.

As I've said before, I'm planning on doing this as a video.  I'll start by looking at each of the 12 sticks in detail one by one, then will go through a number of 4-way games, one at a time, playtesting every stick before moving onto the next game.  I am no expert in the chosen games, so this will more be a "layman" comparison about what feels good and what doesn't, highlighting any problems any sticks have with certain games along the way.  For each individial game, I'll try to rank the sticks in order of how suitable they are.  I may also enlist the help of my boy to test the sticks, and (pandemic permitting) maybe another gamer friend or two.

As I plan on building a vertical classics cab in the near future, I'll use the bits I have already for that:  a Ryzen 5 3600 Groovymame PC connecting via an Ultimarc J-Pac to a Hantarex Polo/3 CRT. I'll be using as high a frame-delay as possible to minimise any input lag.  My supergun recently died so I have ended up making a custom jamma harness just for the bits I need for this test (video, gnd, coin/start/button1/button2/up/down/left/right).  I'll connect all the individual joystick directions together using a stripboard, then connect that to the jamma direction inputs on the harness.  This'll mean I can use all the joysticks as if they were one.  Once the joysticks are mounted in the panel, I'll wire them all up to the stripboard.



I've cut all the shaft holes for each of the joysticks, and the mounting holes for the joysticks that I have.  3 more to come soon.  I've also made some basic CP mounting blocks from some 2x4 and put some button holes in: 3 sets of 2 buttons for ease of reaching when moving from stick to stick, and 3 buttons at the top for coin, start and exit.



Will be really interesting testing out all the sticks, figuring out what feels best for specific types of games.  I'll post another update when the remaining sticks come and I've got it all wired up and ready to test.   

[MartyKong]

Very cool of Jimbo for doing this. A good 4 way comparison will be helpful to all. I have the Happ/Pac reunion stick which I found reading older threads/comparisons like your doing now. I had to adjust the spring to feel looser on it. Other than that I don't hit diagonals but only use it on 4 way games. The 4 way gate sometimes could feel a bit smoother but I guess I'm used to it. Look forward to reading your findings. Marty

[Cynicaster]

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement.

^ This is my preferred MAME cabinet 4-way solution right here.  I hate bat tops so the ball top mod is just as important as the restrictor. 

I know microswitches are typically deemed rather unsexy, especially when the focus is a generation of games that predominantly used leaf switches.  So, if someone has a microswitch aversion, then a ball top and restrictor are not going to change their mind; I understand that. 

But the way I look at it is, most MAME cabinets are inherently multi-purpose so "authenticity" for specific games kind of goes out the window anyway, so why fuss over it?  Instead, I look for a joystick that is comfortable to use and makes my character reliably go where I want it to go in the widest possible range of 4-way games.

Not sure if this "test" is still planned or ongoing, but other games I'd recommend trying are Nibbler and Frogger.  The former to test the stick's ability to accuratey register multiple direction changes in short succession; the latter to test the stick's ability to accurately (and comfortably) register multiple taps in the same direction.   


   

[Jimbo]

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement.

^ This is my preferred MAME cabinet 4-way solution right here.  I hate bat tops so the ball top mod is just as important as the restrictor. 

I know microswitches are typically deemed rather unsexy, especially when the focus is a generation of games that predominantly used leaf switches.  So, if someone has a microswitch aversion, then a ball top and restrictor are not going to change their mind; I understand that. 

But the way I look at it is, most MAME cabinets are inherently multi-purpose so "authenticity" for specific games kind of goes out the window anyway, so why fuss over it?  Instead, I look for a joystick that is comfortable to use and makes my character reliably go where I want it to go in the widest possible range of 4-way games.

Not sure if this "test" is still planned or ongoing, but other games I'd recommend trying are Nibbler and Frogger.  The former to test the stick's ability to accuratey register multiple direction changes in short succession; the latter to test the stick's ability to accurately (and comfortably) register multiple taps in the same direction.   

Thanks for the info.  Good shout on Frogger and Nibbler, I'll make sure to add those into the testing.

I won't be testing the happ super, I don't have one and can't get hold of the 4-way restrictor as I'm in the UK.  I have 12 sticks to test though so it should be a thorough enough comparison for most people.

I am waiting on 3 sticks to arrive from the US, then will be able to wire up the behemoth control panel and get my teeth stuck in.  Looking forward to it.  Maybe in the mean time I should brush up on my Pac-man so I don't look like a complete numpty! 

[KenToad]

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement.

^ This is my preferred MAME cabinet 4-way solution right here.  I hate bat tops so the ball top mod is just as important as the restrictor. 

I know microswitches are typically deemed rather unsexy, especially when the focus is a generation of games that predominantly used leaf switches.  So, if someone has a microswitch aversion, then a ball top and restrictor are not going to change their mind; I understand that. 

But the way I look at it is, most MAME cabinets are inherently multi-purpose so "authenticity" for specific games kind of goes out the window anyway, so why fuss over it?  Instead, I look for a joystick that is comfortable to use and makes my character reliably go where I want it to go in the widest possible range of 4-way games.

Not sure if this "test" is still planned or ongoing, but other games I'd recommend trying are Nibbler and Frogger.  The former to test the stick's ability to accuratey register multiple direction changes in short succession; the latter to test the stick's ability to accurately (and comfortably) register multiple taps in the same direction.     

I have the 4 way restrictor from GGG on a super joystick and it doesn't seem to restrict diagonals very well unless I add a shim spacer so it sits a bit lower down. I don't have the ball top replacement, just the normal super bat top, but I wouldn't get a ball top because the restricted joystick doesn't give me that 4-way joystick feeling. The throw is too long on the super.

Jimbo, I'm looking forward to the comparison. 

[leapinlew]

Ms Pac-Man speed up. When it’s fast, executing cardinal directions only while rolling the joystick to make quick turns is when it’s essential to have a 4 way only joystick.

[Cynicaster]

For games that I've sold, I've used a HAPP super with a 4 way restrictor (https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310) and a ball top replacement.

^ This is my preferred MAME cabinet 4-way solution right here.  I hate bat tops so the ball top mod is just as important as the restrictor. 

I know microswitches are typically deemed rather unsexy, especially when the focus is a generation of games that predominantly used leaf switches.  So, if someone has a microswitch aversion, then a ball top and restrictor are not going to change their mind; I understand that. 

But the way I look at it is, most MAME cabinets are inherently multi-purpose so "authenticity" for specific games kind of goes out the window anyway, so why fuss over it?  Instead, I look for a joystick that is comfortable to use and makes my character reliably go where I want it to go in the widest possible range of 4-way games.

Not sure if this "test" is still planned or ongoing, but other games I'd recommend trying are Nibbler and Frogger.  The former to test the stick's ability to accuratey register multiple direction changes in short succession; the latter to test the stick's ability to accurately (and comfortably) register multiple taps in the same direction.     

I have the 4 way restrictor from GGG on a super joystick and it doesn't seem to restrict diagonals very well unless I add a shim spacer so it sits a bit lower down. I don't have the ball top replacement, just the normal super bat top, but I wouldn't get a ball top because the restricted joystick doesn't give me that 4-way joystick feeling. The throw is too long on the super.

Jimbo, I'm looking forward to the comparison. 

Interesting... now that I think about it, when I first tried the GGG restrictor about 8 years ago I had to fiddle with the actuator lever thingies on the Super a little bit to dial it in, but once I did that it worked like champ for several years until I wore the joystick out.  I got a new Super and swapped over the restrictor and that one worked fine right out of the box. 

[Vocalitus]

I'll probably get laughed at.....

I am liking the crap joystick they stuck in the 1up countercade v2.  Easy throw, somewhat stiffer and hits all directions, simple design.

I usually buy Happ Supers or the Seimitsu LS-32.  I'll go analog or Xbox controller for 8 way, but not so much now.  All my cabs bar one is 4 way super or Seimitsu.

[roknrol]

Hey Jimbo - Did you ever complete your testing? I had bookmarked this thread long ago, but it doesn’t look like much activity has transpired. Just curious.

[TurboC--]

Nice timing on this bump. I actually just messaged him about it before this - he hasn't responded yet. Kinda odd. He's been logged in recently, maybe we just missed him.