Best Retro Console?

[AJgamer]

Just having a debate with some friends about this, want to get some other opinions on it.

[danny_galaga]

I used to say N64, but now I'm digging Dreamcast a lot more. And in a surprising contrast, the Atari 2600

[bobbyb13]

Depends on how old you are maybe?

Atari 2600-
with NES a very close second for me.

[Gilrock]

I'm old enough to remember when my parents bought Pong when it came out.  They bought me an Atari 2600 when I was in high school and then an Atari 800 before I graduated.  I credit the Atari 800 with its Basic programming cartridge as the kickstart to my software engineering career.  On the Atari 800 I loaded games via cassette deck and then later floppy disks.  After I got out of college Sega Genesis came out so I spent tons of money on those games.  Then I upgraded to a Sega Saturn and eventually got into PC's.  So there were a ton of other brand consoles I never got to try.  I think some of the best games were on the Sega Saturn.  Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally Championship, and one of the most beautiful games of its time Panzer Dragoon Saga.  I'm kicking myself for not holding onto all those games and systems.

[Vigo]

I used to say N64, but now I'm digging Dreamcast a lot more. And in a surprising contrast, the Atari 2600

It is insane how many quality titles came out for the Dreamcast, especially considering how it is often referred to as a failed console. Arcade quality stuff, too. N64 defined party gaming. It's problem was it wasn't versatile for more in-depth games. The library doesn't hold up today. The Playstation was a better bet, it was so unintentionally versatile that is exceeded the N64 in a number of ways, even though it was older. PSX just had to discover how to perform. My understanding is that the PSX code library was used so far outside of the rails by the end of it's life, but developers had to open it up to complete in the 3d realm.

I am going to have to give my best attempt at unbiased credit to the best of the best as the SNES. It succeeded at just about every genre, Sports, racing, RPG, fighters, platformer, etc. It was also a complete market success, and it's controller became the blueprint of gaming. D-pad, four thumb buttons in a diamond and shoulder buttons. Every console controller is more or less a variant of the SNES pad with thumbsticks. Another thing I think was to Nintendo's success is when they started putting enhancement chips in the carts themselves. It gave the SNES a better lifespan in the mid 90's and eliminated the need for sales killing console upgrades like the Sega CD.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I’m gonna agree with Vigo, the SNES was the best all around. It had it all.


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[Gilrock]

Hmm...never really played SNES.  My impression back then was it was more kid oriented games.  I did buy a couple SNES USB controllers for my bartop so I can checkout some of the games.  Just not sure which games were exclusive to that platform that fit my taste.  Not really into fighting games or anything Mario related.

[yotsuya]

The SNES knocked both sports games and RPGs out of the park. That’s why I loved the console.


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[thomas_surles]

Hmm...never really played SNES.  My impression back then was it was more kid oriented games.  I did buy a couple SNES USB controllers for my bartop so I can checkout some of the games.  Just not sure which games were exclusive to that platform that fit my taste.  Not really into fighting games or anything Mario related.

Link to the past, chrono trigger, secret of mana, final fantasy, castlevania IV, Dracula x, f zero, pilot wings, super metroid? I know you said no Mario but super mario rpg is on another level.

[pbj]

There's good games on every system except the Atari Jaguar.  SNES is probably going to give you the experience most similar to what you'd find in modern gaming.  It is very, very hard to go back to the rough graphics and interface clunk of N64 and PS1.  Any older than SNES/Genesis and you're dealing mostly with games that don't save progress and made up for short playtimes by being too difficult to enjoy.

[Gilrock]

Hmm...never really played SNES.  My impression back then was it was more kid oriented games.  I did buy a couple SNES USB controllers for my bartop so I can checkout some of the games.  Just not sure which games were exclusive to that platform that fit my taste.  Not really into fighting games or anything Mario related.

Link to the past, chrono trigger, secret of mana, final fantasy, castlevania IV, Dracula x, f zero, pilot wings, super metroid? I know you said no Mario but super mario rpg is on another level.

Cool...thanks for the list.  I was a big Zelda fan but can't remember exactly which titles I played.  I know I played the original game on NES and Ocarina of Time which I believe I played on N64.

[danny_galaga]

There's good games on every system except the Atari Jaguar.  SNES is probably going to give you the experience most similar to what you'd find in modern gaming.  It is very, very hard to go back to the rough graphics and interface clunk of N64 and PS1.  Any older than SNES/Genesis and you're dealing mostly with games that don't save progress and made up for short playtimes by being too difficult to enjoy.

Admittedly there aren't MANY, but there are a few good games on the Jaguar. Tempest 2000 and Super Burnout for original games. And Raiden and Doom are great ports.

[fablog]

I had a Neo Geo, after a master system, genesis, SNES. By far it was the best console. Very expensive, but you had an arcade at home.

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[pbj]

Neo Geo has been 100% emulated since the late 90s and the controllers aren’t great.

Jaguar was complete garbage. 

[danny_galaga]

Neo Geo has been 100% emulated since the late 90s and the controllers aren’t great.

Jaguar was complete garbage.

You are not a very happy person, are you?

[pbj]

I owned a Jaguar and many, many games for it.  Call it a circa 2000 “let’s buy what I didn’t have as a kid” experience.  Junk.

I’ve been fortunate enough to touch a couple AES consoles in the last 5 years.  It had been since the early 90s.  Games were nice, obviously, but the controllers felt just as cheap as any other console arcade stick.  The system also needs multiple mods to produce decent image and sound. 

 

[danny_galaga]

I owned a Jaguar and many, many games for it.  Call it a circa 2000 “let’s buy what I didn’t have as a kid” experience.  Junk.

I’ve been fortunate enough to touch a couple AES consoles in the last 5 years.  It had been since the early 90s.  Games were nice, obviously, but the controllers felt just as cheap as any other console arcade stick.  The system also needs multiple mods to produce decent image and sound. 

 

Imma call you the 'but' man.

[Howard_Casto]

He's not wrong.   That's why most neogeo fans get a MVS and just consolize that.   Why pay hundreds for a console that's a cheap piece of junk when you can run the same games on actual arcade hardware for next to nothing?  The only reason the AES is expensive is because it's somewhat rare, not because it's a well built, future proof console.

I would also point out that while state of the art then, it's just another 16 bit console now.   Yeah let's play those all time classic neogeo titles like.... ummm.... and don't forget..... uhhh....   Oh but there's King of Fighters and Metal Slug so I guess two franchises make it the best??

Whenever you start making arbitrary statements like "the best console is" and that console isn't a Nintendo console you are just embarrassing yourself.   Everybody knows it's all about the games and most of the highest rated games of all time are on the NES, SNES or N64.   If you want an objective-ish answer we can only go by measurable metrics.

[Gilrock]

I've actually never touched an original Neo-Geo.  I have played it a lot on Mame.  Never played any KOF games but lots of Metal Slug, Baseball Stars, Magician Lord, and Spinmaster are usually my gotos.

[Vigo]

The Neo Geo's library didn't pick up steam until the 94-96, and by then you had much richer, deeper games people wanted to play on console. "arcade only" couldn't exactly scratch it. Resident Evil came out before the first Metal Slug was released.

[pbj]

I liked the idea of Neo Geo better than the reality of owning one when I had the MVS board.

I still want an AES, though.

 

[gamepimp]

There's good games on every system except the Atari Jaguar. 

This is very true. I can find games on almost every console that I enjoy playing. Sadly I don't own a Jaguar, so can't really speak to that one in particular. I'm sure there are a few on there that are decent.

SNES is probably going to give you the experience most similar to what you'd find in modern gaming.  It is very, very hard to go back to the rough graphics and interface clunk of N64 and PS1.  Any older than SNES/Genesis and you're dealing mostly with games that don't save progress and made up for short playtimes by being too difficult to enjoy.

I think a lot of what defines a console as being the "best" to someone depends on nostalgia. I consider the NES to be the one of the top systems because a) it had groundbreaking graphics compared to other consoles I had played before it like Atari 2600 and Intellivision, b) there were so many amazing franchises like Zelda, Metroid, and Super Mario Bros. that had distinctly original gameplay and are still being milked to this day, and c) it's the first one that I owned as a kid. As PBJ mentioned many of the games were unbearably tough and I gave up on them rather easily at that time. I have an Everdrive now with save states which makes those hard games so much easier to contend with and thus much more enjoyable to play. I'm not sure why developers back then were such masochists. LOL!

[dmckean]

There's good games on every system except the Atari Jaguar. 

This is very true. I can find games on almost every console that I enjoy playing. Sadly I don't own a Jaguar, so can't really speak to that one in particular. I'm sure there are a few on there that are decent.

The Jaguar library is pretty sad. Same thing with the CDi.

Everything other console I can think of has at least 10 good games.

[Titchgamer]

Its a bit subjective really.

If I go for nostalgia and Love I would say Mega Drive.
For pure quality I would say PS2.

My Neo Geo stuff is the pride and joy of my collection but I could never afford one back in the day so dont have the nostalgia for it that I do the others.
I opted for a CMVS but I also have a MVS board in my mini neo geo cab and a NGCD.

I would love a AES to add to my collection though!
But yeah they AES sticks aint great but the Bean sticks are pretty decent and the NGCD controllers are friggin amazing.

[opt2not]

I chose SNES. 

It's my desert island console. In every genre it has something to offer me in multiple great titles. Top RPG's, both japanese style and non. Shmups a plenty. Fighting game ports , and exclusives.  Great platformers, great beat-em-ups...there are just so many games in every category that rank high on the quality bar.

Couple other great things about the SNES:  natively outputs RGB, S-video and Composite without modifications.  Controller is probably the most comfortable and best d-pad of all-time.  Great peripherals,  The Super Gameboy, SNES Mouse, Multi-tap...

If I were stranded with one console to choose, it is definitely the SNES. 

[Ond]

Interesting topic.  I don't have a nostalgic angle on consoles, I mostly ignored them after Atari died and up until Sony PlayStation when I was ordered by my boss to learn everything about PlayStation in order to sell them in our computer shop.  Boss "take one home and any games you want, this is our new business". 

Recently I built myself a little unit that's a dedicated (Nintendo only) console player matched with a couple of wireless Nintendo style game-pads.  It does just one thing - allows me to play NES, SNES or N64. Of the three platforms I'd have to say SNES is my favorite for the same reasons mentioned. 

[KenToad]

The SNES is the best. I debated this one for a while because I've been playing so much Genesis lately, but really the SNES was the first retro console I picked up in the early 2000's and the only one I wanted for several years. Regarding games, it does have the best of all worlds, especially as a stock console, as opt2not mentioned. When I play Genesis, I use an 6-button pad that I never had back in the day. And I often play Sega CD, which also was beyond my means back then. MSU-1 games are the closest thing to a Super Nintendo CD and they are cool, but I actually prefer the stock sound in most cases. Nintendo never fell for the FMV trap and it really says something about their game design priorities and hardware understanding, even if they did use draconian tactics and it ended up backfiring on them in the next two generations.

Back in the day, I got the Sonic bundled Genesis for my birthday, but later traded that for an SNES right before SFII came out. I never regretted it.

[pbj]

Well, I ended up in some rich kid house and he had hundreds of NES games and a Genesis at launch with every game I could think of.  Maybe we all laugh at it now but I don’t think there was ever a leap like there was from NES to Genesis.  Music, voice, number of sprites, parallax scrolling.  I feel like everything since has been an incremental update.

[KenToad]

Well, I ended up in some rich kid house and he had hundreds of NES games and a Genesis at launch with every game I could think of.  Maybe we all laugh at it now but I don’t think there was ever a leap like there was from NES to Genesis.  Music, voice, number of sprites, parallax scrolling.  I feel like everything since has been an incremental update.

For me, the biggest leap is from the Atari and other US consoles to the NES. No more keypad style controllers or mushy arcade sticks, the NES had crisp graphics, smooth scrolling, and responsive controls, not to mention actual good music, which was virtually nonexistent in home consoles before then.

My friends got an NES before Super Mario was released and we played so much that we got bruised thumbs. Even then, Kung Fu and Duck Hunt blew our minds. From that point onward, I considered Atari and the other older consoles worthless.

[dmckean]

For me, the biggest leap is from the Atari and other US consoles to the NES. No more keypad style controllers or mushy arcade sticks, the NES had crisp graphics, smooth scrolling, and responsive controls, not to mention actual good music, which was virtually nonexistent in home consoles before then.

My friends got an NES before Super Mario was released and we played so much that we got bruised thumbs. Even then, Kung Fu and Duck Hunt blew our minds. From that point onward, I considered Atari and the other older consoles worthless.

The US game companies just pumped out ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- too. The ColecoVision and Sega SG-1000 hardware is nearly identical but the SG-1000 games look SO much more advanced.  NES and Sega taking over and totally dominating the US market for a decade is the best thing that every happened for gaming in general.

[vertexguy]

Of your list I went SNES for many reasons already stated.  Would be harder to decide between SNES and NES though.  No other consoles had the range of quality games. Sure there are great games on every console, but Nintendo really had a consistent spread of options done really well.  Sadly I think they've lost their touch with more recent consoles where they seem to be lost more in hardware then games.  They've seemingly abandoned so many hit titles and IPs it just blows my mind.

[pbj]

For me, the biggest leap is from the Atari and other US consoles to the NES. No more keypad style controllers or mushy arcade sticks, the NES had crisp graphics, smooth scrolling, and responsive controls, not to mention actual good music, which was virtually nonexistent in home consoles before then.

This is a very, very good point.  The 2600 was already old news when I was a kid.

It's been interesting the peruse the NES library with my Everdrive lately.  There was some very good stuff early on with that system

[Howard_Casto]

The NES is without a doubt the most important console.   You no longer needed an instruction manual to know wtf the pink block on the screen is supposed to be or what you are supposed to be doing.... graphics had lept forward enough to where goals were self-evident.  Saved the industry.   They didn't lose their way though... Super Mario Odyssey and botw are probably the two best games of the last 10 years.   They just stick to the main IPs because they are a relatively small company and can only do so many games a year.  When they do try to farm out their old IPs half the time it becomes a disaster like Metroid Prime 4, which they had to scrap and give to another studio it was so bad.

[Vigo]

The NES was great, but I disagree with comments that it was the graphics that made the difference. The Atari 2600 was already almost 10 years old by the time the NES was globally released at the end of '86. What was current was home gaming computers that had  saturated the market. Depending on the computer, they had more or less comparable graphics and sound to what an NES offered, and because everything was open development, there were big libraries of games, peripherals and a lot of stuff at cheap prices.

My feeling is NES was so insanely successful because they bided their time to create a package deal, not just a build a console and throw out games as they finished them. They did that in Japan in '83 with poor results, but kept going and locally until it could drop a juggernaut of games and peripherals in America and Europe, and department stores had a clear swatch of compatible games to shelve. Even if half the titles at the time were crap, there were options. I have a hard time thinking Nintendo would have turned around the industry if it needed to survive 2 years on the shelves before Super Mario Bros even came out.

[KenToad]

The NES was great, but I disagree with comments that it was the graphics that made the difference. The Atari 2600 was already almost 10 years old by the time the NES was globally released at the end of '86. What was current was home gaming computers that had  saturated the market. Depending on the computer, they had more or less comparable graphics and sound to what an NES offered, and because everything was open development, there were big libraries of games, peripherals and a lot of stuff at cheap prices.

My feeling is NES was so insanely successful because they bided their time to create a package deal, not just a build a console and throw out games as they finished them. They did that in Japan in '83 with poor results, but kept going and locally until it could drop a juggernaut of games and peripherals in America and Europe, and department stores had a clear swatch of compatible games to shelve. Even if half the titles at the time were crap, there were options. I have a hard time thinking Nintendo would have turned around the industry if it needed to survive 2 years on the shelves before Super Mario Bros even came out.

Computer games at the time of the NES's release from 85-87 were awful, bad arcade ports, grating sound and music, choppy scrolling, really poor controller possibilities. Remember the pencil-thin analog stick PC controller that didn't even re-center? (There was that one red top-fire that wasn't complete garbage.) All the PC games were bad ports or even unlicensed clones of arcade games with virtually none of the original gameplay intact. Let's not even discuss the lack of quality control, with a virtual flood of shovelware being pirated and shared by PC enthusiasts. I can't think of even one PC game from that era that's playable today, especially with era-appropriate controls?

The NES outshone the computers of the day because it was designed to do exactly what it did. I saw a documentary talking about how it took John Carmack a ton of work to get smooth scrolling on a top of the line PC of the same era and no one could figure out how he did it. He had challenged himself to do it because he was so impressed by the smooth scrolling on the NES.

Yup, there's a reason why Nintendo put those pixels on the black box covers. The NES was state of the art.

[Vigo]

Are you talking about games on like an IBM PC, or games on actual gaming computers? Yeah, the best stuff on those PCs were monochromatic text adventures, rpgs and cerebral games with terrible bibs and boops, getting something like a c64 was completely different. You could get a nice wico made joystick and play games that looked far better than many of the NES launch titles, just look at most of what Epyx and other decent companies were putting down 2-3 years before the NES was available -







And then by the time the NES was really available in 1986, games on gaming computers were beginning to look like this:



The early NES games were not that beautiful, a graphical leap isn't what sold it. They packaged together their quality stuff and filtered out what was bad for the US/EU markets. Contrast that with computer games, you have one game that looks amazing on the shelf next to a game with stick people. Shovelware was a plague. You also had to read gaming magazines to know what was good, and often order from catalogs. You would need to check every game to make sure it was compatible with your particular computer, and nothing about an experience was consistent. Not approachable by kids and many parents.

With the NES, they put everything in toy store shelves and marketed like crazy. You could go to the store and just know it works with your console, and knew what was good from word of mouth and commercials.

[KenToad]

The NES was only heavily marketed after it was a proven seller. Retailers wouldn't touch it. It was released in a few test markets and proved itself because it had mind-blowing graphics and gameplay.

None of those games that you're showcasing demonstrate smooth side to side scrolling that was needed for the top selling genre of platformers (although that split screen is impressive if that's from 1985). The graphics on the top two games look pretty drab, even compared to early NES release games. The bottom two games look okay. I had one or maybe two friends who owned a computer powerful enough to play Summer Games in 1988. It was a single screen affair with no original in-game music. The Amiga version of IK+ came out in 1988, had no scrolling and looked like a tech demo for Prince of Persia.

Most people I knew who owned PC's just had Carmen Sandiego, Oregon Trail or Ultima, something with rudimentary graphics and a lot of text. If you wanted movement and action-oriented gameplay in 1985-87, you had to get an NES.

Also, the PC hardware was insanely expensive (C64 was $600, nearly quadruple the price of the $180 NES Deluxe set in 1985), meaning that the market was very limited. Even so, the graphics, sound, and especially play control of the NES were a huge leap above the C64 and other home computers of the day.

Also, those Wico red topfire sticks were just okay, nothing that I would want to use today. The NES controllers are still great to this day.

[pbj]

This is an interesting and weird argument.  I remember being told for years that Commander Keen was “just as good as a console game” and it was freaking terrible.

My mind was blown by Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, though.

 

[Vigo]

Ken, I am not arguing against the significance of the NES, and never said the graphics of the NES were inferior, When I say the NES is comparable to computers, though, I am acknowledging that the NES did do certain things better, and computers at the time did certain things better. It all depends on the spec. I was responding to comments stating that before the NES, video game characters looked like indecipherable dots, which isn’t true at all.

I knew tons of people with c64s and other gaming computers, I’m a little young, but my brothers were trading games all the time. I have no clue where you got $600 from, but a C64 retailed for $150 in 1985, and the scrolling was usually fine. Games were far cheaper, too. Price point wasn’t the difference.

With an example of scrolling, Commando comes to mind. It came out in late 85, and the NES version a year later. Generally, the C64 version was considered superior in just about every way.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cdGaZ8Fakok

honestly the best weapon Nintendo had in Hardware was instant booting. No cassette or floppy disks and loading sequences to get you to the game. Blasted the demographics wide open.

FYI - that racing game is Pitstop II, released in 1984. Cool game, as you make pit stops and can control the entire pit crew.There were plenty like it. Commando comes to mind as it was

[dmckean]

It was Metroid that sold me on the NES, and about 18 of my classmates at a going away party. Passing the controller around and taking turns on that game was like nothing we'd previously experienced. My age group in 1988 (5th grader) was all about the arcade and thought of home consoles and computer as being sort of lame in comparison. The NES and games like Metroid and Zelda changed all that. Those games were about just getting lost in the world and atmosphere for hours and having no idea what to do next, it was so different from any previous gaming experience.

[Vigo]

JUSTIN
BAILEY

[KenToad]

Just reading more about the history of c64 pricing on Wikipedia, it looks like it had several price drops as the cost of chips plummeted in the early 80's and their marketing became more aggressive.

[wp34]

Are you talking about games on like an IBM PC, or games on actual gaming computers? Yeah, the best stuff on those PCs were monochromatic text adventures, rpgs and cerebral games with terrible bibs and boops, getting something like a c64 was completely different. You could get a nice wico made joystick and play games that looked far better than many of the NES launch titles, just look at most of what Epyx and other decent companies were putting down 2-3 years before the NES was available -

This describes me.  Since I was still playing and happy with my Atari 800 I didn't get an NES until almost 1990.  Even then it was only after a friend who had one showed me Zelda.  I was never particularly impressed with the graphics or playability of the NES.  The SNES on the other hand was a huge leap and I played the heck out of it.

[bobbyb13]

I had to think more about this to remember the timeline of these for me...

I think I lost interest in the 2600 after E.T. (seriously) since by then I could ride my bike to play real arcade machines in various spots anyway, and just how bad those games could be comparatively was the end of it.

Then mostly played the Zorks on an IBM, a few games on my Apple Macintosh, watched a kid down the street play Wolfenstein on his C64...

 and then was floored when another buddy showed me his NES.

For something you could have in your house, that wasn't floppy disks or casettes, the leap to that was a big one.

The next leap of commensurate size would have been the jump to PS1 then I would guess?

[Howard_Casto]

Ken, I am not arguing against the significance of the NES, and never said the graphics of the NES were inferior, When I say the NES is comparable to computers, though, I am acknowledging that the NES did do certain things better, and computers at the time did certain things better. It all depends on the spec. I was responding to comments stating that before the NES, video game characters looked like indecipherable dots, which isn’t true at all.

I knew tons of people with c64s and other gaming computers, I’m a little young, but my brothers were trading games all the time. I have no clue where you got $600 from, but a C64 retailed for $150 in 1985, and the scrolling was usually fine. Games were far cheaper, too. Price point wasn’t the difference.

With an example of scrolling, Commando comes to mind. It came out in late 85, and the NES version a year later. Generally, the C64 version was considered superior in just about every way.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cdGaZ8Fakok

honestly the best weapon Nintendo had in Hardware was instant booting. No cassette or floppy disks and loading sequences to get you to the game. Blasted the demographics wide open.

FYI - that racing game is Pitstop II, released in 1984. Cool game, as you make pit stops and can control the entire pit crew.There were plenty like it. Commando comes to mind as it was

No man it's cool that you liked the c64, there are some good b and c grade games on it but the NES had almost everything going for it and the c64 had next to nothing.  The NES, like every other 8-bit console in the mid-80's had a d-pad with two action buttons and additionally two menu buttons.  The C64 had a 2600 era wico joystick with a single action button.   That right there limits gameplay mechanics severely.   In addition there wasn't any control standardization on the c64 so you'd be pecking on that keyboard even with a joystick plugged in.   The main reason NES games are superior is because you can do more, and you can do more due to those extra buttons and a more precise directional input method.  The NES also had smooth scrolling graphics with a decent amount of sprites on the screen at a time while the c64 struggled to do any of that without sacrificing something else.   I believe the NES had a better sound chip... either that or nobody that developed games for the c64 knew how to do sound effects and background music.   The most important thing the NES had going for it though was big studio support.   The c64 was very much a hobbyist computer and unfortunately that meant a lot of the game "studios" were a handful of guys in a basement somewhere and it showed.   Meanwhile the videogame all stars like the Nintendo r and d divisions, konami, capcom and all the rest were releasing all their AAA titles on the NES and similar consoles.  The c64 had a few things going for it but they don't effect gameplay that much.   More colors could be displayed in certain modes, obviously without game carts games could theoretically be larger, and of course disk and tape drives meant piracy ran rampant.  In theory it's easier to develop for, but just from what I understand mind you, making games of a higher quality meant pure assembly programming and having to know the quirks of the hardware so it's probably a wash on that one. 

Yes there is a lot of fun stuff to play and do on a c64 but at it's heart it's a computer, not a gaming console and the slight but distinct differences made it inferior hardware that the big developers just didn't want to work on.  Again, the hardware aspect isn't that important or else everyone would have gotten a master system back in the day but the big developers not making games for it (or at least not with their best teams) does.  Also let's not kid ourselves it's a suped up version of the VIC 20, which is early 80's era tech trying to compete with mid 80's tech.

PC gaming didn't become a contender until Microsoft consolidated the market place,  developers could program a game for one OS (Dos or Windows) instead of a million variations of hobby computers and thus larger developers were actually willing to make AAA games for the PC.   

[Howard_Casto]

I guess I should address the commando thing.   Commando on the NES was a poorly coded game as it was towards the beginning of the console.   The C64 version obviously was coded better for whatever reason.   That being said the graphics are inferior and the reason it scrolls smoothly is due to the simplicity of graphics.  Early NES games weren't always great.   That being said I think you'll be hard pressed to find c64 titles comparable to late 80's nes games.   

[Vigo]

Dude, you can say what you want about the C64, I get it, you didn't experience it, and I was never trying to call that particular computer as better than the NES. It did go toe to toe with it on a number of ports, and actually had lots of AAA titles, but I am not a loyalist, and my point was we didn't magically go from action heroes being dots to being fully fleshed out characters with the NES. By the time the NES was available internationally, it was already 3 year old tech, which only adds to why it is so remarkable.

I believe the NES had a better sound chip... either that or nobody that developed games for the c64 knew how to do sound effects and background music.

However, for the record, you are gonna get real ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- from most chip tune enthusiasts for knocking the SID sound chip.  That isn't me saying that. It is just a fact, and there isn't anything wrong with the NES sound, it was great, but just not as brilliant. The SID was hands down the favorite of game musicians because of how well they could manipulate it. I think it may have lacked the channels that the NES had, total 4, but they could modulate the wavelength and overclock notes so imperceptibly fast that it created chords. It made for some devastatingly awesome music, and games did use it. Youtube SID music, and you will find thousands of hours of it, excellent stuff on the original chip. Here is an example, and this song couldn't be reproduced on the NES.






 

[Vigo]

I guess I should address the commando thing.   Commando on the NES was a poorly coded game as it was towards the beginning of the console.   The C64 version obviously was coded better for whatever reason.   That being said the graphics are inferior and the reason it scrolls smoothly is due to the simplicity of graphics.  Early NES games weren't always great.   That being said I think you'll be hard pressed to find c64 titles comparable to late 80's nes games.

I could list of a bunch of c64 games that were as good as their NES counterparts, if not better. TMNT, Skate or Die, Maniac Mansion, Metal Gear, Gauntlet, etc, and C64 games that were better than the comparable game on the NES - Kikstart II vs excitebike for example. This isn't a dick measuring contest though, I never said the C64 was better. By the time the NES came out, both it and the C64 was old tech the world had already seen, and stuff like the Atari ST and Amiga were on the market. The NES was quality games that were easy to approach. It was the iPhone of the time. That isn't a knock.

[dmckean]

Dude, you can say what you want about the C64, I get it, you didn't experience it, and I was never trying to call that particular computer as better than the NES. It did go toe to toe with it on a number of ports, and actually had lots of AAA titles, but I am not a loyalist, and my point was we didn't magically go from action heroes being dots to being fully fleshed out characters with the NES. By the time the NES was available internationally, it was already 3 year old tech, which only adds to why it is so remarkable.

I believe the NES had a better sound chip... either that or nobody that developed games for the c64 knew how to do sound effects and background music.

However, for the record, you are gonna get real ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- from most chip tune enthusiasts for knocking the SID sound chip.  That isn't me saying that. It is just a fact, and there isn't anything wrong with the NES sound, it was great, but just not as brilliant. The SID was hands down the favorite of game musicians because of how well they could manipulate it. I think it may have lacked the channels that the NES had, total 4, but they could modulate the wavelength and overclock notes so imperceptibly fast that it created chords. It made for some devastatingly awesome music, and games did use it. Youtube SID music, and you will find thousands of hours of it, excellent stuff on the original chip. Here is an example, and this song couldn't be reproduced on the NES.

I spent a several days checking out C64 games on my MiSTer shortly after I got it and it's amazing how many completely ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- games have absolute bangin' music. I definitely get the SID music thing, it's awesome.

[Vigo]

I spent a several days checking out C64 games on my MiSTer shortly after I got it and it's amazing how many completely ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- games have absolute bangin' music. I definitely get the SID music thing, it's awesome.

I think it just has something to do with the fact that game programmers at the time did everything - design work, project management, coding, art, you name it. The musicans are given the exact same project time to do only one thing, so they had time to hammer out killer music while waiting for everyone else to finish their soul draining work.

[KenToad]

That SID track is pretty cool and atmospheric. I think that I appreciate synthesized music more now than I did in the 80's. Thanks for sharing.

I guess the Famicom/NES was even more impressive when it released in the Japanese market in 1983. And we in the US missed out on all that sweet expanded audio on the disk system and on Konami and Sunsoft special chip carts.

[pbj]

Going after C64 music is amusing, musicians were using those things for 20 years.   

I did the expansion audio mod on my top loader.  It was a weird decision by Nintendo not to have support for it on the NES, but it honestly isn’t a gigantic leap forward on the games that support it.  I’d call the Castlevania 3 sound track a wash in terms of which is better.

[Vigo]

That SID track is pretty cool and atmospheric. I think that I appreciate synthesized music more now than I did in the 80's. Thanks for sharing.

I guess the Famicom/NES was even more impressive when it released in the Japanese market in 1983. And we in the US missed out on all that sweet expanded audio on the disk system and on Konami and Sunsoft special chip carts.

  Glad you enjoyed it.

Yeah, it must have been really interesting getting in on the Famicom side of things for Nintendo. On one side, they ended up the guinea pigs, and sometimes got the less tested out stuff, like how the original Famicom controllers didn't unplug...but on the other side, they got everything, and got it much earlier, and there was a lot of fan service going on. I heard Mario 3 was delayed like 2 years almost.

Yeah, I heard about how they had the expanded audio and how some of the western NES music had to be simplified for our cartridges, would have been great to have that here.

Going after C64 music is amusing, musicians were using those things for 20 years.   

I did the expansion audio mod on my top loader.  It was a weird decision by Nintendo not to have support for it on the NES, but it honestly isn’t a gigantic leap forward on the games that support it.  I’d call the Castlevania 3 sound track a wash in terms of which is better.

I didn't know that was a thing. Is that to work specifically with your Everdrive cart? I am assuming that would do nothing with a US cart inserted.

[pbj]

You solder a jumper wire in your everdrive from the expansion audio pin to an unused one.  Then you add a resistor from that pin inside your system to the audio transistor output trace.  Unfortunately there’s only one blurry photo from 2004 online that shows you how to do it, but it’s really easy.  Then you run the translation patch on the Famicom castlevania 3 rom and you’re good to go.

[Vigo]

Makes sense. Thanks for detailing. I’ll have to look at the everdrive route again, and maybe give it a shot. I have been using the mini lately, and it is what it is. I can’t complain, but I have been flipping a bunch of my consoles to play on flash memory.

[KenToad]

I did the expansion audio mod as well. There seemed to be some difference in opinion as to how strong of a resistor to use. I can't remember what type I used. I installed a switch just in case there was too much audio buzz, but it hasn't been a problem, so I usually just leave the expansion audio enabled.

Mr. Gimmick has incredible expansion audio music. I slightly prefer Castlevania 3's expansion audio, mainly for the deeper sound, but yeah the non-expansion version was great, too. I also feel like the Japanese original is the better game, being more balanced. And the Japanese soundtrack is really bad without the expansion audio playing (or playing poorly, as it did on earlier versions of the everdrive firmware).

The disk original versions of Kid Icarus, Metroid, and Zelda are interesting to hear.

[Grasshopper]

If you're going to expand this discussion to include home computers, then that changes everything, especially in Europe where computers were vastly more popular than consoles, at least until the early 90s.

By the time the NES appeared in about 1987, most European gamers would already have been heavily invested in one of the many 8 bit computers that existed at that time. And anyone thinking of upgrading is far more likely to have bought an Atari ST or Commodore Amiga than a NES. At that time, the NES wasn't even on most people's radar.

The Amiga 500 was far more powerful than the NES and appeared at about the same time as the NES in Europe. It's difficult to overstate how groundbreaking the Amiga 500 was. Its graphics and sound capabilities were comparable to those of the SNES and Megadrive. It also came with a sophisticated multitasking UNIX-like operating system with a proper GUI front end. This was at a time when IBM PCs were still using MSDOS. It's just a shame that Commodore screwed up the marketing so badly.

[Vocalitus]

If you're going to expand this discussion to include home computers, then that changes everything, especially in Europe where computers were vastly more popular than consoles, at least until the early 90s.

By the time the NES appeared in about 1987, most European gamers would already have been heavily invested in one of the many 8 bit computers that existed at that time. And anyone thinking of upgrading is far more likely to have bought an Atari ST or Commodore Amiga than a NES. At that time, the NES wasn't even on most people's radar.

The Amiga 500 was far more powerful than the NES and appeared at about the same time as the NES in Europe. It's difficult to overstate how groundbreaking the Amiga 500 was. Its graphics and sound capabilities were comparable to those of the SNES and Megadrive. It also came with a sophisticated multitasking UNIX-like operating system with a proper GUI front end. This was at a time when IBM PCs were still using MSDOS. It's just a shame that Commodore screwed up the marketing so badly.

Yeah and it cost a small fortune too.  The ST was far cheaper.  If we are talking about home computers - then the TI994/a was the first 16 bit computer to be priced properly in 1984 $99 with a $25 rebate.  Then the Radio Shack Coco, which was another favorite.  The CBM 64 enjoyed the most of the market.  The UK market was diverse enough, but most of the early PCs like the Acorn Atom and the ZX80 was more kit based.  My parents shipped me off to boarding school and bought me an Amiga 2000, it was a great ice breaker to have that in your room.  Most of the kids there had BBC Model B or Electrons. I do remember the Teeside Cracking Service where we got most of our games and demos.  The computer class only had Minitel terminals that was teletext based and a Vax mainframe linked to the local University.  I learned more about computers there than in Uni.   

[nitrogen_widget]

If you're going to expand this discussion to include home computers, then that changes everything, especially in Europe where computers were vastly more popular than consoles, at least until the early 90s.

By the time the NES appeared in about 1987, most European gamers would already have been heavily invested in one of the many 8 bit computers that existed at that time. And anyone thinking of upgrading is far more likely to have bought an Atari ST or Commodore Amiga than a NES. At that time, the NES wasn't even on most people's radar.

The Amiga 500 was far more powerful than the NES and appeared at about the same time as the NES in Europe. It's difficult to overstate how groundbreaking the Amiga 500 was. Its graphics and sound capabilities were comparable to those of the SNES and Megadrive. It also came with a sophisticated multitasking UNIX-like operating system with a proper GUI front end. This was at a time when IBM PCs were still using MSDOS. It's just a shame that Commodore screwed up the marketing so badly.

Yeah and it cost a small fortune too.  The ST was far cheaper.  If we are talking about home computers - then the TI994/a was the first 16 bit computer to be priced properly in 1984 $99 with a $25 rebate.  Then the Radio Shack Coco, which was another favorite.  The CBM 64 enjoyed the most of the market.  The UK market was diverse enough, but most of the early PCs like the Acorn Atom and the ZX80 was more kit based.  My parents shipped me off to boarding school and bought me an Amiga 2000, it was a great ice breaker to have that in your room.  Most of the kids there had BBC Model B or Electrons. I do remember the Teeside Cracking Service where we got most of our games and demos.  The computer class only had Minitel terminals that was teletext based and a Vax mainframe linked to the local University.  I learned more about computers there than in Uni.   

my gaming progression:

pong
atari 2600
Ti-99/4a (silver case) was my first PC.
i typed A LOT of programs out on that then saved them to tape.
I still have it somewhere and found a few cartridges in the dig site I call my basement.
A-mazing and micro surgeon.

after that I went to the C-128 then amiga 500.
I should still have both the 128 and amiga somewhere.
however my mom found a c64 in her basement and i have zero idea where it came from. LOL!
I didn't buy a PC until commodore went out of business.

I will say I have min versions of the NES, SNES, and i've really only explored the genesis.
i just let my brother borrow it so i'll be looking at the NES for a bit.
I just wasn't a console person.

[pbj]

I had a Ti 99/4a I bought at a garage sale.  What a weird system.  Enjoyed picking up cartridges and peripherals at swap meets for practically nothing.  Didn’t do a hell of a lot with it, but enjoyed making the speech module cuss.

[AJgamer]

Wow so many replies! Thanks for voting guys, I myself will go with the majority and say the SNES. I may even purchase the re-released version so my kids can experience it 

[Vigo]

Wow so many replies! Thanks for voting guys, I myself will go with the majority and say the SNES. I may even purchase the re-released version so my kids can experience it 

Can't go wrong with the SNES. They are easy to hack too, in case you want to add more games. You can also get wireless pads for them pretty easily.

I had a Ti 99/4a I bought at a garage sale.  What a weird system.  Enjoyed picking up cartridges and peripherals at swap meets for practically nothing.  Didn’t do a hell of a lot with it, but enjoyed making the speech module cuss.

Never owned one, but I always liked the look, speech module is really cool. No Flashrom99?

my gaming progression:

pong
atari 2600
Ti-99/4a (silver case) was my first PC.
i typed A LOT of programs out on that then saved them to tape.
I still have it somewhere and found a few cartridges in the dig site I call my basement.
A-mazing and micro surgeon.

after that I went to the C-128 then amiga 500.
I should still have both the 128 and amiga somewhere.
however my mom found a c64 in her basement and i have zero idea where it came from. LOL!
I didn't buy a PC until commodore went out of business.

I will say I have min versions of the NES, SNES, and i've really only explored the genesis.
i just let my brother borrow it so i'll be looking at the NES for a bit.
I just wasn't a console person.

Nice! You went a pretty hard computer route. I had a Vic 20 and a C64 as a kid, but didn't touch computers much until the Power Mac 5200. Would have loved an Amiga, just a very cool gen of computer games where the games didn't have to be large scale to be great, but they could be. Hey, if you have no emotional attachment to that c64, I might make you an offer.   

[nitrogen_widget]

Wow so many replies! Thanks for voting guys, I myself will go with the majority and say the SNES. I may even purchase the re-released version so my kids can experience it 

Can't go wrong with the SNES. They are easy to hack too, in case you want to add more games. You can also get wireless pads for them pretty easily.

I had a Ti 99/4a I bought at a garage sale.  What a weird system.  Enjoyed picking up cartridges and peripherals at swap meets for practically nothing.  Didn’t do a hell of a lot with it, but enjoyed making the speech module cuss.

Never owned one, but I always liked the look, speech module is really cool. No Flashrom99?

my gaming progression:

pong
atari 2600
Ti-99/4a (silver case) was my first PC.
i typed A LOT of programs out on that then saved them to tape.
I still have it somewhere and found a few cartridges in the dig site I call my basement.
A-mazing and micro surgeon.

after that I went to the C-128 then amiga 500.
I should still have both the 128 and amiga somewhere.
however my mom found a c64 in her basement and i have zero idea where it came from. LOL!
I didn't buy a PC until commodore went out of business.

I will say I have min versions of the NES, SNES, and i've really only explored the genesis.
i just let my brother borrow it so i'll be looking at the NES for a bit.
I just wasn't a console person.

Nice! You went a pretty hard computer route. I had a Vic 20 and a C64 as a kid, but didn't touch computers much until the Power Mac 5200. Would have loved an Amiga, just a very cool gen of computer games where the games didn't have to be large scale to be great, but they could be. Hey, if you have no emotional attachment to that c64, I might make you an offer.   

My parents only bought the Ti  because brand names had them on clearance.
I didn't even know what a Vic was then and my school just had the apple 2 which they couldn't afford.

I have to make sure my commodore 128 still exists.

[Vigo]

Yeah, I think these were doing a lot of computer clearance sales at the time. Between that and the common stretch of a sales pitch that the machines were good for both gaming and to help mom and dad do their finances, that how most computer companies they sold their machines. I never knew anyone with an Apple II, but it seems everyone knew them from school.

Definitely hope your C128 does indeed exist and is sitting somewhere safely for you. No pressure on the C64 offer, but let me know if you do want to let go of it, I have been passively been looking for a C64 for the last few months, so I have to ask. 

[nipsmg]

Even so, the graphics, sound, and especially play control of the NES were a huge leap above the C64 and other home computers of the day.

Woah woah woah.  SOUND?!  You’re dead wrong on sound.  The C64’s SID chip was far superior to the NES’s sound capabilities.  It’s one of the reasons why some games I enjoyed MORE on the C64 than the NES.  More simultaneous sounds, awesome synth capabilities, speech synthesis, etc.
 
NES for the W ongraphics? Absolutely , no question.. but C64 has the edge on sound.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=430442


Go listen to paperboy or commando’s soundtrack on c64, they were dope.

[Ond]

In the late 80's I had a job working in a college where I basically managed all the AV and computer equipment for students.  One day all these boxes were delivered containing Apple II e computers.  I set up a 'Lab' for students to use these green screen Apple's mainly for word processing classes in Zardax which came on 5 1/4 floppies.

In the afternoon when it was quiet I'd sit in my glass walled office playing on my Commodore 64.  I'm sure the students could hear the amazing sounds of the C64 as they pecked away on their Apples   .

I also had one of the first Amiga 1000s when they came out, that thing was incredible.  It would be quite a few years before PCs matched the overall capability of that machine. 

[nitrogen_widget]

In the late 80's I had a job working in a college where I basically managed all the AV and computer equipment for students.  One day all these boxes were delivered containing Apple II e computers.  I set up a 'Lab' for students to use these green screen Apple's mainly for word processing classes in Zardax which came on 5 1/4 floppies.

In the afternoon when it was quiet I'd sit in my glass walled office playing on my Commodore 64.  I'm sure the students could hear the amazing sounds of the C64 as they pecked away on their Apples   .

I also had one of the first Amiga 1000s when they came out, that thing was incredible.  It would be quite a few years before PCs matched the overall capability of that machine.

HA!
I remember playing Eye of the beholder on my buddies $2500 Dos machine he got for college because he was going for computer science then showing him eye of the beholder on my $500 amiga 500.
he was just like: 
he couldn't believe how good it looked.

[nexusmtz]

I also had one of the first Amiga 1000s when they came out, that thing was incredible.  It would be quite a few years before PCs matched the overall capability of that machine.

Still kick myself for doing the trade-in offer for the Amiga 2000, but at least I kept that one.

[Grasshopper]

The first computer I owned was a ZX81. Unfortunately, it was pretty much unusable due to Sinclair's terrible quality control. You had just about enough time to load a short program from audio tape before it would crash due to overheating which was very frustrating. I got it replaced several times, but the fault was never fixed. So I gave up and asked for a refund.

I used the refunded money to purchase a second-hand Acorn Atom, and never looked back. It was awesome compared to the ZX81. It remains my favourite computer to this day.

I then sold the Atom a couple of years later to fund the purchase of a BBC Micro. It's a decision I still regret to this day, particularly because Atoms now go for silly money on Ebay. The BBC Micro was also an awesome machine, and objectively better than the Atom in every way. But I'll always have a soft spot for the Acorn Atom as it was my first real computer.

Many years later, and a few weeks before Commodore went bust, I bought an Amiga 1200. It was a great machine, but with hindsight, I wish I'd bought an Amiga earlier during the platform's heyday.

Eventually, when it became clear that Commodore wasn't going to be resurrected, I reluctantly bought a PC. And I've mostly used boring generic PCs and Laptop's ever since.

[KenToad]

Even so, the graphics, sound, and especially play control of the NES were a huge leap above the C64 and other home computers of the day.

Woah woah woah.  SOUND?!  You’re dead wrong on sound.  The C64’s SID chip was far superior to the NES’s sound capabilities.  It’s one of the reasons why some games I enjoyed MORE on the C64 than the NES.  More simultaneous sounds, awesome synth capabilities, speech synthesis, etc.
 
NES for the W ongraphics? Absolutely , no question.. but C64 has the edge on sound.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=430442


Go listen to paperboy or commando’s soundtrack on c64, they were dope.

I'll give them a listen at some point. The article you linked has the NES having more sound channels, while the C64 had fewer channels that could be manipulated to produce a wider range of tones.

Given the number of classic music tracks on the NES, I still can only imagine that the C64 has potentially better sound. It's like if you give Josh Bell an off-the-shelf violin and some amateur violinist a Stradivarius. Who would you rather listen to?

[Vigo]

Yeah, trying to give a fair assessment, you will probably have an overall better sound experience on an NES from a gaming perspective due to the channels and the ability to play a lot of tunes. Some C64 games had sound effects cut into one channel of the music when playing, other games had even no sound effects and all you heard was the music. The NES had a good chip, and it honestly wasn't too far behind the SID, but it was not often utilized like the SID.

One thing that makes the SID more legendary, other than the chip itself was just the circumstance of it. The commodore was about the first computer that ended up being more versatile than just blips and boops, and the chip's level of ability was honestly accidental... the video game industry was the wild west, programmers could work on what they wanted, and this new ability instantly enraptured many new programmer/musicians. C64 publishers were constantly pushing the envelope and learned how to code music exceptionally. Combine that with the fact that the commodore has extremely limited space constraints, and musicians would be making a music library of one or two songs for the entire game. These people were set out to make their opus on each game, while an NES musician may be tasked with 15 songs for a single title. I have the impression many NES musicians looked at the composing, then translated it to chip tune with the perspective more like a midi tool. SID musicians experimented with the chip in more of a jam session way and built songs around what they could invent from the chip.

So to give an example of what I mean, take a listen to Silver Surfer on the NES, the reason I chose this one is because the game was produced by Arcadia, which was formerly Mastertronic, a huge budget C64 publisher. While this game is ass, the composer here had music for at least 15 ZX and C64 games under his belt when he made this for the NES. I think you will notice there is a ton of atmosphere. There are layered, wide selections of different instruments and not only standard 8 bit blip notes, but long, varying pitch tones woven in. In short there is a lot of dimension to the sound. Not casting this on all NES games, but NES typically could be the same hook over and over and is often more memorable for well composed, tune rather than the sound squeezed out of the chip itself. Most NES 3rd party publishers jumped from Arcade to NES, and at least to me, the lack of creative chip usage is just noticeable.

[opt2not]

Famicom expansion audio > all

[yamatetsu]

I'll give them a listen at some point.

Take a look (lend an ear to?) the works of Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, David Whittaker, Chris Huelsbeck, Maniacs of Noise. BITD I would obtain games just because of their music.

[danny_galaga]

I've decided that the Apple Pippin is the best console 

[KenToad]

I'll give them a listen at some point.

Take a look (lend an ear to?) the works of Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, David Whittaker, Chris Huelsbeck, Maniacs of Noise. BITD I would obtain games just because of their music.

Thanks for the recommendations! Of those names, I only recognize Huelsbeck from the Turrican games.

I recently managed to emulate midi sound on the X68000 by connecting the Roland MT-32 emulator Munt to the X68000 emulator XM6 and discovered that Gemini Wing has an amazing "hidden" soundtrack on the X68000. It reminded me of playing Midnight Resistance on the Genesis for the first time and being impressed that the console soundtrack was even better than the arcade original.

[Malenko]

I would also point out that while state of the art then, it's just another 16 bit console now.   Yeah let's play those all time classic neogeo titles like.... ummm.... and don't forget..... uhhh....   Oh but there's King of Fighters and Metal Slug so I guess two franchises make it the best??

The SNES is the best retro console, the quantity and more importantly the quality of games is just unmatched.

The NeoGeo was no where near the best retro console; but it ranks up there with CPS2 as one of the best arcade platforms.
Avoiding the KOF and the Slugs, there are a TON of fantastic games (and serieseseseses)  on neogeo. If you can only think of Metal Slug and KOF than that's your problem.

Just off the top of my head:
Aero Fighters/Sonic Wings
Baseball Stars
Samurai Shodown series
Sengoku series
Shock Troopers series
Last Blade series
Blazing Star (Pulstar is just too unforgivably difficult)
Zed Blade


and MOTHER TWERKING WINDJAMMERS! Seriously, the dog & Frisbee mini-game needs to be its own standalone game.
I'll admit I like the Stakes Winners games, but I know that's not the norm, feel free to judge.


Now I'm not gonna lie, the NES port of baseball stars was a blast and a game a sunk a lot of time into it as a kid, but which game looks better to you?

or

[nitrogen_widget]

I liked American Horseshoes on neo geo.

[opt2not]

And Neo Turf Masters is the best golf game ever made!

Blazing Star and Pulstar was made by the same dev team, but I would give Pulstar more props because it can be attached as a spiritual successor to the R-type series.  It was made by ex-Irem developers as well. Don't let hard games dissuade you, R-type is regarded as one of the top shoot-em-ups of all time, and it's tough as nails.

[Mike A]

And Neo Turf Masters is the best golf game ever made!

---smurfing--- golf.

[Malenko]

Blazing Star and Pulstar was made by the same dev team, but I would give Pulstar more props because it can be attached as a spiritual successor to the R-type series.  It was made by ex-Irem developers as well. Don't let hard games dissuade you, R-type is regarded as one of the top shoot-em-ups of all time, and it's tough as nails.

Pulstar is "too unforgivably difficult" to suggest for people to play who aren't into shmups; and if they are into shmups they already know about it.

Pebble Beach Golf Links on the Sega Saturn is the greatest golf game ever.

[javeryh]

I’m partial to Hot Shots Golf 3 for the PS2

[nitrogen_widget]

Mario gold on gamecube is fun also.
wii sports resort golf is fun with the kids.
especially after few beers.

[bobbyb13]

Not sure what would happen in my household if I let the kids drink beer
 

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I would also point out that while state of the art then, [the Neo Geo] is just another 16 bit console now.   Yeah let's play those all time classic neogeo titles like.... ummm.... and don't forget..... uhhh....   Oh but there's King of Fighters and Metal Slug so I guess two franchises make it the best??

Come on man, it can't hold a candle to the SNES obviously, but it had one really nice (Last Resort) and one awesome shooter (Pulstar), both of which were made by Irem folks (who also did Neo Turf Masters, which got very high ratings on release) and which more than hold up today. (While I don't share that opinion, many people also hold Blazing Star in high regard.) The Samurai Shodown games were excellent and are still being played competitively today, just like many of the King of Fighters games. The Metal Slug games aren't the only good run'n gun games on the system, there's also Shock Troopers I and II, Puzzle Bobble is a great puzzler, and there are still so many Windjammers-fans around that a sequel was produced for it, which was released last month. It's library wasn't that big and the games were after all arcade games, but it's still a solid console.

[MrThunderwing]

Sega Megadrive is probably the greatest retro console for me I reckon. I had a Sega Master System before that and a ZX Spectrum 128k before that. The Speccy had a very limited, near monochrome colour pallet and very basic sound (although some clever people managed to get some incredible music out of it back in the day) and most (not all though) of the game ran super slowly. Most of the arcade ports were about as stripped back from the originals as you could get (although, again, there were some clever coders who managed absolute miracles with decent ports of stuff like R-Type, Chase HQ and Bubble Bobble).

I had to save up my pocket money to put towards half the cost of the Master System for one of my birthdays and it was a massive step up from the Spectrum with it's full colour games and considerably faster looking graphics, but still nowhere close to the arcade games they were based on.

Then I got a Megadrive for Christmas when they first launched here in the UK. I once again had to save up my pocket money to put towards half of it and sell the Master System to one of my mates (although in the end, my Dad very kindly paid for well over half, so I could spend the money on some games). One of the very first games I got on the Megadrive was Revenge of Shinobi, and holy shitballs if that game didn't just absolutely blow my teenage mind away when that awesome animated intro kicked in for the first time along with the equally awesome Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack. In game, it looked incredible too, with all it's layers of parallax scrolling and huge (compared to the SMS and Spectrum at any rate) game sprites. It finally felt like I was playing something of the same graphical and audio quality from the arcade at home. I was similarly blown away by other early MD stuff like Super Hang-On, Golden Axe and Truxton. Later stuff like Streets of Rage 2, Streetfighter 2: Special Championship Edition and Thunderforce 3 and 4 just added further to the sense of wonderment. Plus the console itself looked sexy.  It was an ergonomic delight with a bonus 3.5mm headphone jack, so you could plug the console intro your Hi-Fi if you had a stereo Y cable and really drive your parents mental. Ahhh, good times. For these reasons, that sense of finally capturing something that felt so close to the arcade in my bedroom, I think the Megadrive will always be my favourite retro system.

[tony.silveira]

Vectrex

the glow of those vectors in a dark room bring back fond memories

[pbj]

I think the Megadrive will always be my favourite retro system.

Your post gave me a quarter chub. 

[BadMouth]

I was a Sega fanboy until I dropped $300 of my hard earned money on a Sega CD at launch.  Popped in Sewer Shark....sucked.  Popped in Night Trap....sucked.  Money wasted. I kept thinking "it has to be better than this".  I felt further ripped off by each game purchased with two exceptions: Road Rash and Sol-Feace.  The soundtracks added value to those games, but not enough to justify a $300 upgrade.

[pbj]

Wasn’t $300 by the time Sewer Shark dropped, iirc.

I paid $90 for my model 2, and $18 for any two games I wanted from Sam Goody.

I owned almost the entire library by the end of it… But I passed on Snatcher.

Oh well.

 

[MrThunderwing]

I think the Megadrive will always be my favourite retro system.

Your post gave me a quarter chub.

Only a quarter?

I was a Sega fanboy until I dropped $300 of my hard earned money on a Sega CD at launch.  Popped in Sewer Shark....sucked.  Popped in Night Trap....sucked.  Money wasted. I kept thinking "it has to be better than this".  I felt further ripped off by each game purchased with two exceptions: Road Rash and Sol-Feace.  The soundtracks added value to those games, but not enough to justify a $300 upgrade.

I feel your pain. I never actually got one back in the day, but I can remember thinking that majority of titles released for it seemed like such a disappointing bunch. Such a shame Sega seemed more interested in releasing crappy FMV titles on the Sega CD, rather than releasing some arcade ports that could really take advantage of the system's scaling and rotation abilities. Would've been great to have seen some fully Sega CD optomised ports of stuff like Outrun, After Burner and Galaxy Force (let's just not talk about the terrible Afterburner 3 game that came out on it...). A proper Sega CD optomised version of Golden Axe would've been cool too, rather than the weird single player only, more-or-less straight MD port the system got.

[dmckean]

My brother bought the Sega CD and loved it, but he was almost exclusively into JRPGs. I also don't think he got it until it was $200.

[Malenko]

My brother bought the Sega CD and loved it.

I loved it too, and I liked Sewer Shark. Never could manage to beat "Ground Zero:Texas" . I got close, the trick was the leave the shields up and still pick off the aliens but I still never saw the end. Only other FMV game I thought was neat was Tomcat Alley.  I thought the LaserDisc ports were pretty good considering and Road Avenger/Blaster was the best one.

Night Trap and Double Switch weren't fun to me.  Final Fight CD was the best home port short of emulation, the Lunar games and Vay were great RPGs, everyone is going to tell you about Snatcher but it really is the best version of the game along with the tg16 one. Sonic CD was the first Sonic game I really got into. Everyone here knows I have a boner for  Eternal Champions CD but I remember buying Fatal Fury Special for Sega CD and being blown away.
Other great titles include:  Popful Mail, lords of thunder, Mickey Mania, Soulstar, Terminator, Shining Force, Keio, Silpheed, Shining Force, Batman Returns (the driving game) , Earthworm Jim, etc

Dark Wizard is probably the best Sega CD you've never played or heard of. Its a slow paced tactical RPG (ie Ogre Battle) but its pretty great.

The real stinkers are the FMV games, and the games that are genny ports with FMVs added (and nothing else), and games that get completely crippled by load times(Willy Beamish, Mortal Kombat CD).