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| GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter |
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| Zebidee:
--- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 08:45:07 pm ---Thanks for the detailed explanation :) About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up. But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small. I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;) --- End quote --- Yes well I do have a strong tendency to say more than I need to. More rather than less. Something I have always battled with as a professional policy advisor when all I feel I need to say is not necessarily what they want to hear. It might even be a strength. Digressing. One thing I have never battled much with is telling things as they are. One of my strengths I think. Back to business: I don't know how GreenAntz will perform with a BVM at HDTV/480p+ but expect it to not do well, as explained above and in the original thread. I don't see this as a limitation - frankly it is a side issue - and not relevant to 99% of potential applications. |
| JayBee:
--- Quote from: Zebidee on March 08, 2021, 09:22:40 pm --- --- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 08:45:07 pm ---Thanks for the detailed explanation :) About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up. But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small. I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;) --- End quote --- Yes well I do have a strong tendency to say more than I need to. More rather than less. Something I have always battled with as a professional policy advisor when all I feel I need to say is not necessarily what they want to hear. It might even be a strength. Digressing. One thing I have never battled much with is telling things as they are. One of my strengths I think. Back to business: I don't know how GreenAntz will perform with a BVM at HDTV/480p+ but expect it to not do well, as explained above and in the original thread. I don't see this as a limitation - frankly it is a side issue - and not relevant to 99% of potential applications. --- End quote --- No worries, I have the same issue, I guess it's a common trait for us, tech enthusiasts ;D Better too much info than not enough. Yeah it's all good, I'm sure our devices will make a good combo. |
| Zebidee:
--- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 08:45:07 pm --- --- Quote from: Zebidee on March 08, 2021, 07:55:05 pm --- --- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 06:48:29 pm ---Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter! :D I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat. I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right? --- End quote --- Thanks JayBee :) The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better. GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming. When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that. GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor. --- End quote --- Thanks for the detailed explanation :) About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up. But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small. I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;) --- End quote --- It does exactly what it is designed to do, is not a technical limitation. |
| JayBee:
--- Quote from: Zebidee on March 08, 2021, 10:20:02 pm --- --- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 08:45:07 pm --- --- Quote from: Zebidee on March 08, 2021, 07:55:05 pm --- --- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 06:48:29 pm ---Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter! :D I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat. I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right? --- End quote --- Thanks JayBee :) The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better. GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming. When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that. GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor. --- End quote --- Thanks for the detailed explanation :) About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up. But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small. I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;) --- End quote --- It does exactly what it is designed to do, is not a technical limitation. --- End quote --- I know, I meant the technical limitations of the ypbpr color space between SDTV and HDTV ;) |
| Zebidee:
--- Quote from: JayBee on March 08, 2021, 10:26:45 pm ---I know, I meant the technical limitations of the ypbpr color space between SDTV and HDTV ;) --- End quote --- Sorry yeah, not much we can do about that. Forums are so rubbish for realtime interaction too. What I really want to say is "what you have done is just amazing". Back at issue, if wanting to use YPbPr with later-model HDTV I suggest looking at using GreenAntz together with a scaler, another thing altogether. GreenAntz performs excellently in the tests we've done for SDTV/15khz with all modes from ~50hz to ~60hz+. I've also had reports for GreenAntz working for YPbPr where like MiSTer has not, for example, esp for PAL modes. So it still has a few tricks up it's sleeves vs alternatives |
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