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Author Topic: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter  (Read 47551 times)

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JayBee

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GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« on: February 28, 2021, 01:48:29 am »


Hey guys,

Most of you probably know me already for my GUN4IR system, the lightgun system that works on pretty much any system/screen.

I have been teasing it for a while now, but here I officially announce my next upcoming lightgun system, that this time is focused only on CRT based gun.
It will take the shape of a VGA/USB box that will allow you to plug any Guncon/G-Con45 compatible gun on any system with a CRT screen.

Here are few of the features of that system;
  • Plug and play, just connect the adapter to your device and connect a GCon to it, and you're ready to go.
  • No IR sensor or any other special device needed. As it's using the native GCon protocol, that uses analog CRT raster, it will work out of the box
  • No special software/processing needed. Like my other system, it will have a standard input that works on any system (Windows, Linux, RPi, MiSTerFPGA...)
  • No need for special switches for different video mode. The device should be detecting every video mode automatically and adapt to it.

Here is a small demo of it working on the MiSTerFPGA;
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 03:52:09 am by JayBee »

dmckean

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2021, 01:05:36 pm »
Great job!

This is really impressive.

opt2not

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2021, 06:34:01 pm »
I want this!

Would love to use a guncon on an arcade cab using the MiSTer.

KenToad

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2021, 01:08:10 pm »
VGA only?

Titchgamer

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2021, 01:59:00 pm »
Cant wait for this, GCon has always been the mother of all lightguns :D

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2021, 02:12:19 pm »
VGA only?
VGA is needed to connect from the host to the adapter yes, but the output to the TV/monitor can be either VGA or any RGBs capable cable like scart  ;D

sonik

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 03:39:52 pm »
This is amazing!
I'm trying to do exactly something like this. Then i hit a wall... Can't make proper use of the guncon without reading the composite video signal.
My idea was to "glue" two arduino libs. One is a lib to use a PS controller on a arduino (with a very good lib by the way). Another is to use a arduino as a usb mouse. :-P
You plan on making it open source? Also, you say VGA... as as in 31Khz? The original guncon can do it?
If you need any tester count me in! :D

KenToad

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2021, 04:08:09 pm »
VGA only?
VGA is needed to connect from the host to the adapter yes, but the output to the TV/monitor can be either VGA or any RGBs capable cable like scart  ;D
Living in the USA, I have zero experience with SCART. I've only ever used VGA on old computer monitors.

I have a Trinitron that has component, composite, and S-video. I have a raspberry pi hooked up through composite. I guess that this wouldn't be compatible with the GUN2CRT?

Getting a pi working with the GunCon 1 or 2 sounds like a dream come true.

dmckean

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 01:45:55 pm »
VGA only?
VGA is needed to connect from the host to the adapter yes, but the output to the TV/monitor can be either VGA or any RGBs capable cable like scart  ;D

So this thing won't pass through component video if you're using a MiSTer?

markc74

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2021, 02:07:28 pm »
Count me interested in this. The original crt light guns are a level above anything I've seen using LEDs. Following...

Arroyo

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2021, 02:57:47 pm »
Ditto following.

flybynight

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 05:13:16 pm »
Wow this is great. 

I've spent lots on crts guns like usb2gun, actlabs and dabbled with ancient 32 bit windows builds of Acorns wingun guncon drivers. Out of nowhere you come up with this!

How is it tracking and targeting in your video without flashing?

Will it work with groovymame "super resolutions" on crt?

I'll take 2 please :D

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 10:38:28 pm »
Living in the USA, I have zero experience with SCART. I've only ever used VGA on old computer monitors.

I have a Trinitron that has component, composite, and S-video. I have a raspberry pi hooked up through composite. I guess that this wouldn't be compatible with the GUN2CRT?

Getting a pi working with the GunCon 1 or 2 sounds like a dream come true.


So this thing won't pass through component video if you're using a MiSTer?

So far my adapter only works with RGBHV (VGA) connection, but works at any resolution from 240p to 960p.
It also contains a sync combiner that will allow you to use either RGBHV for PC CRT or RGBS for TV screens.
I could add a transcoder/sync splitter if there is enough demand, but it would increase the price and complexity of the device a lot.
And my goal is to keep it simple and affordable for everyone  ;)
But I might consider add on modules in the future, if enough people ask for it.

Count me interested in this. The original crt light guns are a level above anything I've seen using LEDs. Following...

I agree, most led based system are really not that good, and the CRT guns will always be the best for CRT monitors.
However my other advance led based system (GUN4IR) is working fairly well compared this one (I should make a comparison video some day).

To sum up the weakness and strength for each;
Both my IR and CRT system provide the same degree of accuracy
The IR system has a bit lower latency in most cases because you don't have to wait for the raster.
The CRT only works on CRT obviously.
The CRT needs screen flashing for darker games.
The CRT system works better at close distance, the IR at a bit longer distance  ;D

Wow this is great. 

I've spent lots on crts guns like usb2gun, actlabs and dabbled with ancient 32 bit windows builds of Acorns wingun guncon drivers. Out of nowhere you come up with this!

How is it tracking and targeting in your video without flashing?

Will it work with groovymame "super resolutions" on crt?

I'll take 2 please :D
The tracking on games that don't need flashing (most 16 bits games) works super well, it's precise to the pixel and super reactive.
I'd even say it works better than the original guns of those systems thanks to the very good sensor quality of the GCon  :lol
For games that need screen flashing, I added (and currently testing) a screen flashing generator, which would allow the gun to be compatible with anything.
It will of course work with super resolutions, since for vertical pixels the resolution isn't important, only the timing is  ;D

burn_654

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2021, 12:01:49 pm »
I am completely on board with what you've got here. I just now commented over in sonik's thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164677.0.html) about what I tried to accomplish before with a custom flasher program, custom Guncon2 circuit and Topgun drivers (I've posted quite a long time ago about this) but could never get things into a state that would be easy enough for most to duplicate.

To echo that comment I'm very interested in this too! Will it be open source? I could try rigging it up to my flasher program and see how I get on with it...

*phantom edit* just saw your previous comment. Did you end up going the windows gamma ramp route or something else? Gamma ramp worked *ok* but I was never able to get pure white out of some screens, some colors were not affected linearly which cause a bit of a minor offset (ie, wave the gun at a white patch and then over a grey patch, I had a horizontal difference in the mouse cursor)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 12:05:38 pm by burn_654 »

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2021, 01:01:01 pm »
I am completely on board with what you've got here. I just now commented over in sonik's thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164677.0.html) about what I tried to accomplish before with a custom flasher program, custom Guncon2 circuit and Topgun drivers (I've posted quite a long time ago about this) but could never get things into a state that would be easy enough for most to duplicate.

To echo that comment I'm very interested in this too! Will it be open source? I could try rigging it up to my flasher program and see how I get on with it...

*phantom edit* just saw your previous comment. Did you end up going the windows gamma ramp route or something else? Gamma ramp worked *ok* but I was never able to get pure white out of some screens, some colors were not affected linearly which cause a bit of a minor offset (ie, wave the gun at a white patch and then over a grey patch, I had a horizontal difference in the mouse cursor)
A small precision about my system; it's a fully hardware solution, no software involved.
It means no need for screen flashing software or anything else, it will be plug and play. The screen flashing works perfectly already by the way, I will release a demo video soon   ;)
And no, it won't be open source.

KenToad

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2021, 01:27:24 pm »
I don't need any more hype. I'm ready for the order page.  :cheers:

dmckean

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2021, 03:52:51 pm »
So far my adapter only works with RGBHV (VGA) connection, but works at any resolution from 240p to 960p.
It also contains a sync combiner that will allow you to use either RGBHV for PC CRT or RGBS for TV screens.
I could add a transcoder/sync splitter if there is enough demand, but it would increase the price and complexity of the device a lot.
And my goal is to keep it simple and affordable for everyone  ;)
But I might consider add on modules in the future, if enough people ask for it.

There's no need, I already own a few different rgb to component transcoders. I'm just used to the MiSTer outputting component video directly though the VGA port and the lack of clutter.

I'm also ready to buy!

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2021, 04:20:24 am »
So explain this one a little more.   Is the gun going to work if I adapt the vga out to something else, so long as it goes through a crt?   I was thinking component would be a common input method for later model crts.   The gbs and some of the other scalers have some way to output component.   

If this isn't super expensive you've already sold another one.   

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2021, 04:37:14 am »
So explain this one a little more.   Is the gun going to work if I adapt the vga out to something else, so long as it goes through a crt?   I was thinking component would be a common input method for later model crts.   The gbs and some of the other scalers have some way to output component.   

If this isn't super expensive you've already sold another one.
There should also be a rgbs out through some standard video connectors, like the genesis one, haven't decided which one yet.
But yes it's not compatible (yet) with other standards like composite, component or s-video, as those would makes the system way more complex and expensive.
I indeed intend to make it not super expensive  ;D

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2021, 08:16:58 pm »
Sounds like I need to rgb mod my crt then.   Been meaning to do it but the dang thing is so heavy I don't like to move it much less take it apart.   I would suggest either the genesis connector or better yet scart as those are the rgb standards.   

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2021, 09:49:42 pm »
Sounds like I need to rgb mod my crt then.   Been meaning to do it but the dang thing is so heavy I don't like to move it much less take it apart.   I would suggest either the genesis connector or better yet scart as those are the rgb standards.
I understand the feeling, it always a pain for me too to do anything on my pvm   :o

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2021, 09:40:41 am »
Two small update videos on the development progress;
They are showing the new resolution detection and processing.
Both games are running on PC this time, to be able to increase the screen resolution to 1024x768@75Hz.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 10:00:19 am by JayBee »

KenToad

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2021, 05:36:35 pm »
Looks really good. Glad I didn't get rid of my old 17" Dell PC monitor.

Will there be 2 player support?

burn_654

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2021, 12:15:11 am »
That's looking great. Glad to see drag-fire working for Operation Wolf etc.

Not sure if it's been illustrated yet but I didn't notice it in the Virtua Cop footage, is shooting offscreen reload supported? (right click for mame/demulshooter/pc lightgun games). I prefer that action for that style shooter as opposed to a button reload, which seems to be what was going on with that clip.

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2021, 12:28:42 am »
Looks really good. Glad I didn't get rid of my old 17" Dell PC monitor.

Will there be 2 player support?
Yes, there will be a 2 player mode  ;D
But it's not decided yet if it will be 2 players in one box or 2 box daisy chained.

That's looking great. Glad to see drag-fire working for Operation Wolf etc.

Not sure if it's been illustrated yet but I didn't notice it in the Virtua Cop footage, is shooting offscreen reload supported? (right click for mame/demulshooter/pc lightgun games). I prefer that action for that style shooter as opposed to a button reload, which seems to be what was going on with that clip.
Good question. It's not yet supported since I didn't finish my hardware flasher yet, but it will be supported on final product  ;)
Meanwhile I made a dirty offscreen reload hack just for testing  :lol

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2021, 09:36:34 am »
But yes it's not compatible (yet) with other standards like composite, component or s-video, as those would makes the system way more complex and expensive.
I indeed intend to make it not super expensive  ;D

I’m assuming a SCART to component converter won’t work in this setup? I have a SONY CRT and like Howard I have not been too interested in doing the RGB mod because of its size and weight. Furthermore I don’t think there’s a lot of benefit visually between the two formats.

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2021, 10:01:42 am »
But yes it's not compatible (yet) with other standards like composite, component or s-video, as those would makes the system way more complex and expensive.
I indeed intend to make it not super expensive  ;D

I’m assuming a SCART to component converter won’t work in this setup? I have a SONY CRT and like Howard I have not been too interested in doing the RGB mod because of its size and weight. Furthermore I don’t think there’s a lot of benefit visually between the two formats.
It is possible with a no latency analog transcoder, I've been doing it on mine already  ;)
The issue here has nothing to do with quality, it's just that if I want an easy to work and affordable sync and video signal for the gun adapter and especially the screen flash generator, I need vga in and vga/rgbs out. Any other output format would need some form of transcoding.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2021, 01:06:43 pm »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2021, 01:13:34 pm »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?
This seems nice, and you don't need to use the lm1881 since my adapter will already provide a clean csync  ;)
https://easyeda.com/dekkit/rgb-to-component-transcoder
I'm not entirely sure it's no lag tho, but I guess I could get some of those components to test them out.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2021, 02:33:20 pm »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 02:35:21 pm by dmckean »

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2021, 09:11:21 pm »
Any plans on supporting the guncon2 too via usb? Maybe as a optional addon?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2021, 09:15:55 pm »
Any plans on supporting the guncon2 too via usb? Maybe as a optional addon?
No plan on that yet, as it would require a usb host chip, which isn't cheap  :o

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2021, 01:59:33 am »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
I found the thread about the device and it looks amazing. Thanks!

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2021, 02:04:07 am »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
I found the thread about the device and it looks amazing. Thanks!
By the way I got some of the previously mentioned cheap transcoding IC, I will see how well they work with my system ;)

KenToad

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2021, 02:11:41 am »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
I found the thread about the device and it looks amazing. Thanks!
By the way I got some of the previously mentioned cheap transcoding IC, I will see how well they work with my system ;)
Thanks for doing that!

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2021, 02:15:33 am »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
I found the thread about the device and it looks amazing. Thanks!
By the way I got some of the previously mentioned cheap transcoding IC, I will see how well they work with my system ;)
Thanks for doing that!
No problem, testing new stuff is part of the fun  ;D

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2021, 06:24:11 pm »
Anybody got any suggestions for a no latency analog transcoder from VGA to component?

The GreenAntz one that Zebidee sells on this forum is really nice.
I found the thread about the device and it looks amazing. Thanks!
By the way I got some of the previously mentioned cheap transcoding IC, I will see how well they work with my system ;)
Thanks for doing that!
No problem, testing new stuff is part of the fun  ;D

I just wanted to say that the GreenAntz RGB/VGA to YPbPr transcoder should work with GUN4IR, from what I've read here and seen on the YT video.

GreenAntz converts RGB to component colour space, but does not interfere with your video modes. Using a component TV with GreenAntz should be just like using an RGB modded TV or arcade monitor with a PC+CRTEMU/MiSTer/Pi etc.

GreenAntz accepts RGBHV and RGBs inputs. It comes with a "better" sync combining circuit based on XNOR logic that also has some neat deglitching built in, sync-tip clamping and improved sync "mixing" with luma (Y). That means you get a clearer and brighter picture with no loss of colour definition (unlike other low-quality transcoders on market in same "price bracket").

GreenAntz is based on the same circuit you linked earlier JayBee (it was uploaded by my Aussie mate and collaborator "Dekkit"):
https://easyeda.com/dekkit/rgb-to-component-transcoder

That circuit itself is an evolution of a circuit I posted on the Aussie Arcade forums several years ago on another forum:
https://www.aussiearcade.com/forum/arcade/arcade-technical-and-repair-questions/monitor-and-chassis-repair-help/99015-pc-rgb-to-component-converter-tv-hack#post2157213

From that "GreenAntz" was born and has been much developed since. It is a collaborative project which has grown from the seed of an idea to something that is actually... pretty damn good, if I say so myself :D

Until I do enough batches and have enough on-hand to justify listing them on ebay etc., I am selling to forum members for US$45 + courier shipping (to USA that is currently $15, maybe less to other countries). That price is strictly limited because once I start listing online I won't undercut.

EDIT: PM me if interested
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 06:29:44 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2021, 06:48:29 pm »

I just wanted to say that the GreenAntz RGB/VGA to YPbPr transcoder should work with GUN4IR, from what I've read here and seen on the YT video.

GreenAntz converts RGB to component colour space, but does not interfere with your video modes. Using a component TV with GreenAntz should be just like using an RGB modded TV or arcade monitor with a PC+CRTEMU/MiSTer/Pi etc.

GreenAntz accepts RGBHV and RGBs inputs. It comes with a "better" sync combining circuit based on XNOR logic that also has some neat deglitching built in, sync-tip clamping and improved sync "mixing" with luma (Y). That means you get a clearer and brighter picture with no loss of colour definition (unlike other low-quality transcoders on market in same "price bracket").

GreenAntz is based on the same circuit you linked earlier JayBee (it was uploaded by my Aussie mate and collaborator "Dekkit"):
https://easyeda.com/dekkit/rgb-to-component-transcoder

That circuit itself is an evolution of a circuit I posted on the Aussie Arcade forums several years ago on another forum:
https://www.aussiearcade.com/forum/arcade/arcade-technical-and-repair-questions/monitor-and-chassis-repair-help/99015-pc-rgb-to-component-converter-tv-hack#post2157213

From that "GreenAntz" was born and has been much developed since. It is a collaborative project which has grown from the seed of an idea to something that is actually... pretty damn good, if I say so myself :D

Until I do enough batches and have enough on-hand to justify listing them on ebay etc., I am selling to forum members for US$45 + courier shipping (to USA that is currently $15, maybe less to other countries). That price is strictly limited because once I start listing online I won't undercut.

EDIT: PM me if interested
Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter!  :D
I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat.
I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2021, 07:55:05 pm »
Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter!  :D
I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat.
I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right?

Thanks JayBee   :)

The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better.

GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming.

When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that.

GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor.
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2021, 08:45:07 pm »
Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter!  :D
I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat.
I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right?

Thanks JayBee   :)

The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better.

GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming.

When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that.

GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor.
Thanks for the detailed explanation  :)

About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up.

But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small.
I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2021, 09:22:40 pm »
Thanks for the detailed explanation  :)

About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up.

But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small.
I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;)

Yes well I do have a strong tendency to say more than I need to. More rather than less. Something I have always battled with as a professional policy advisor when all I feel I need to say is not necessarily what they want to hear. It might even be a strength.

Digressing. One thing I have never battled much with is telling things as they are. One of my strengths I think.

Back to business: I don't know how GreenAntz will perform with a BVM at HDTV/480p+ but expect it to not do well, as explained above and in the original thread. I don't see this as a limitation - frankly it is a side issue - and not relevant to 99% of potential applications.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 09:35:23 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2021, 10:16:33 pm »
Thanks for the detailed explanation  :)

About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up.

But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small.
I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;)

Yes well I do have a strong tendency to say more than I need to. More rather than less. Something I have always battled with as a professional policy advisor when all I feel I need to say is not necessarily what they want to hear. It might even be a strength.

Digressing. One thing I have never battled much with is telling things as they are. One of my strengths I think.

Back to business: I don't know how GreenAntz will perform with a BVM at HDTV/480p+ but expect it to not do well, as explained above and in the original thread. I don't see this as a limitation - frankly it is a side issue - and not relevant to 99% of potential applications.
No worries, I have the same issue, I guess it's a common trait for us, tech enthusiasts  ;D
Better too much info than not enough.

Yeah it's all good, I'm sure our devices will make a good combo.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2021, 10:20:02 pm »
Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter!  :D
I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat.
I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right?

Thanks JayBee   :)

The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better.

GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming.

When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that.

GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor.
Thanks for the detailed explanation  :)

About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up.

But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small.
I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;)

It does exactly what it is designed to do, is not a technical limitation.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2021, 10:26:45 pm »
Thanks for stepping in, indeed your device seems a great match for my adapter!  :D
I'm also using a xnor sync combiner in my device, so a rgbhv to ypbpr would surely be overkill, but rgbs to ypbpr would be neat.
I'm wondering tho, my adapter supports 480p+ resolutions, but if I understand it correctly your adapter can't have correct color on HDTV modes, right?

Thanks JayBee   :)

The issue is that component colour space for HDTV is different to SDTV. It will actually work with a HDTV that takes 480p in terms of sync, you will get a solid picture, but the colours will be a bit dulled and "green shifted". It has never been a solution for HDTVs that accept component inputs. In most cases you are better off using RGB/VGA/HDMI etc. anyway (there are exceptions, Wii users for example and I'm sorry for them being caught in-between techs). It comes down to them using a different mathematical formula to extract YUV from RGB for HDTV. For more info with less acronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

Yes GreenAntz accepts composite sync (RGBs) input now - and normal XNOR csync input will still benefit from the deglitching and better sync tip integration to luma. It take what it gets and gives what it gets, just a little bit better.

GreenAntz has always been envisioned as a more affordable solution for retrogamers using older CRT SDTVs that maybe can't be RGB modded, but have component inputs available or can be component-modded. Component modding is often much easier too. This means a great many more TVs available for retrogaming.

When I say affordable: Look, you can pay >US$100+ for a Shinybow or whatever that can do HDTV ok I think. If they are even available. GreenAntz is not competing with that.

GreenAntz is about making best-quality YPbPr transcoding "affordable" and "seamless" for retrogamers using CRTs/SDTVs. For people like you and me. I think that "best-quality" means I am extremely happy with it at both a data analysis and personal level (I am a data analyst, so same thing). "Affordable" means about as much as I'd pay for most decent TVs, which is maybe ~US$50. "Seamless" means once you have your VGA/15khz output device setup, you should be able to just plug in the GreenAntz and use your component TV like any other RGB TV/monitor.
Thanks for the detailed explanation  :)

About 31kHz+ resolutions on ypbrpr, I was thinking specifically about early BVM/HDTV that had only components in for 480p and up.

But I agree with you, that use case scenario is very small.
I do understand the technical limitations and there isn't much we can do about it, I just wanted to make sure I understood the technical side of the transcoder ;)

It does exactly what it is designed to do, is not a technical limitation.
I know, I meant the technical limitations of the ypbpr color space between SDTV and HDTV  ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2021, 10:56:07 pm »
I know, I meant the technical limitations of the ypbpr color space between SDTV and HDTV  ;)

Sorry yeah, not much we can do about that. Forums are so rubbish for realtime interaction too. What I really want to say is "what you have done is just amazing".

Back at issue, if wanting to use YPbPr with later-model HDTV I suggest looking at using GreenAntz together with a scaler, another thing altogether.

GreenAntz performs excellently in the tests we've done for SDTV/15khz with all modes from ~50hz to ~60hz+. I've also had reports for  GreenAntz working for YPbPr where like MiSTer has not, for example, esp for PAL modes. So it still has a few tricks up it's sleeves vs alternatives
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2021, 11:24:02 pm »
This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2021, 01:17:30 am »
Ok how about this scenario.   I use gbs control to pump native rgbs into a crt with component in. I believe the max output is 480p.  There's no upscaling or anything like that involved, the only thing it does is convert to component so if it's a 240p signal   that's what the tv is going to get.   Would that work or is the conversion enough to throw off the timing?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2021, 05:23:45 am »
Ok how about this scenario.   I use gbs control to pump native rgbs into a crt with component in. I believe the max output is 480p.  There's no upscaling or anything like that involved, the only thing it does is convert to component so if it's a 240p signal   that's what the tv is going to get.   Would that work or is the conversion enough to throw off the timing?

Can't speak for GBS but GreenAntz would be essentially "zero delay" as there is no digital processing. In reality nothing is "zero" delay, even analogue transcoders will involve some delay, but with GreenAntz delay is no more than a few tens of nanoseconds. Even in the hundreds of nanoseconds you would not notice a delay. To put that into context, there are 1000 nanoseconds in a microsecond, a horizontal sync pulse is around 4-5 microseconds long and a horizontal line at 15khz is about 64 microseconds long.

I don't have a GBS control myself but a friend of mine does have both a fully modded GBS and GreenAntz. He describes the GBS as a great and useful tool for the Lab, but GreenAntz is the preferred way to connect with component TV for gaming etc. because is simpler and better quality transcoding.

This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?

Can't speak for JayBee but GreenAntz is available for forum members for US$45 for a limited time, at least until I get around to listing it elsewhere.
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2021, 05:35:57 am »
This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?
This hasn't been decided yet, as it's still in early prototyping phase  :D

Ok how about this scenario.   I use gbs control to pump native rgbs into a crt with component in. I believe the max output is 480p.  There's no upscaling or anything like that involved, the only thing it does is convert to component so if it's a 240p signal   that's what the tv is going to get.   Would that work or is the conversion enough to throw off the timing?
The latency added by the GBS-C, while being minimal, would most definitely throw the timing off and make the gun unusable.
To explain shortly, the gun needs a timing precision or at least 0.1 microsecond to work well, which pretty much no scaler do.
But there is also another issue, if you double the resolution of the video signal while the gun is still sync with 15kHz, it just won't understand what's happening  :lol

If you want a higher res signal, the best is to simply have everything working at that res.
For instance in the last demo videos, I'm using the system on a pc crt at 1025x768@75Hz.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2021, 07:10:47 am »
This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?
This hasn't been decided yet, as it's still in early prototyping phase  :D


That’s fair and understandable, I was more just curious if it’s like $20? $100? More just like a general price range lol. If there’s still lots to determine though I get it lol

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2021, 11:06:22 pm »
Thinking about it, there is one solution for people who want to use scalers like the GBS-C, they just have to connect the scaler first and my adapter to the scaler VGA out.
It should totally work since it will use the same res/timings as the screen.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2021, 12:09:05 am »
Thinking about it, there is one solution for people who want to use scalers like the GBS-C, they just have to connect the scaler first and my adapter to the scaler VGA out.
It should totally work since it will use the same res/timings as the screen.

So long as it doesn't rely on say 5v via pin 9 or continuity of specific ground pins or similar. Sometimes the issue with having extra 3rd party devices on the same line is that you can never be 100% sure what they do with the pins you assume to be standard.

No issue with USB return timings?
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2021, 01:00:03 am »
Thinking about it, there is one solution for people who want to use scalers like the GBS-C, they just have to connect the scaler first and my adapter to the scaler VGA out.
It should totally work since it will use the same res/timings as the screen.

So long as it doesn't rely on say 5v via pin 9 or continuity of specific ground pins or similar. Sometimes the issue with having extra 3rd party devices on the same line is that you can never be 100% sure what they do with the pins you assume to be standard.

No issue with USB return timings?
Of course I'm not relying on the vga port 5v, the MiSTer or other similar devices don't have it anyway  :lol
What do you mean usb return timing? You mean the polling rate?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2021, 02:02:25 am »
What do you mean usb return timing? You mean the polling rate?

I guess so. I have only a rough idea about how lightguns work, don't have any but always interested. I've already added lightguns to end end of my list of things to do, but it is pretty long already so will see how she goes.
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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2021, 02:32:55 am »
This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?
This hasn't been decided yet, as it's still in early prototyping phase  :D

Ok how about this scenario.   I use gbs control to pump native rgbs into a crt with component in. I believe the max output is 480p.  There's no upscaling or anything like that involved, the only thing it does is convert to component so if it's a 240p signal   that's what the tv is going to get.   Would that work or is the conversion enough to throw off the timing?
The latency added by the GBS-C, while being minimal, would most definitely throw the timing off and make the gun unusable.
To explain shortly, the gun needs a timing precision or at least 0.1 microsecond to work well, which pretty much no scaler do.
But there is also another issue, if you double the resolution of the video signal while the gun is still sync with 15kHz, it just won't understand what's happening  :lol

If you want a higher res signal, the best is to simply have everything working at that res.
For instance in the last demo videos, I'm using the system on a pc crt at 1025x768@75Hz.

I don't think you are hearing me on this one.  I'm not using it as an upscaler.... it's outputting native res which the tv accepts happily as it's a 1999 crt SD tv, one of the first to have component input.   the only thing it's doing is modifying the color space and I think the chip does that at the hardware level, I'm not sure.   Timing is the only issue here, not resolution.   

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2021, 02:43:24 am »
This project looks awesome and already has me looking around my city for a nice crt tv lol. Just curious what this device might cost once all said and done?
This hasn't been decided yet, as it's still in early prototyping phase  :D

Ok how about this scenario.   I use gbs control to pump native rgbs into a crt with component in. I believe the max output is 480p.  There's no upscaling or anything like that involved, the only thing it does is convert to component so if it's a 240p signal   that's what the tv is going to get.   Would that work or is the conversion enough to throw off the timing?
The latency added by the GBS-C, while being minimal, would most definitely throw the timing off and make the gun unusable.
To explain shortly, the gun needs a timing precision or at least 0.1 microsecond to work well, which pretty much no scaler do.
But there is also another issue, if you double the resolution of the video signal while the gun is still sync with 15kHz, it just won't understand what's happening  :lol

If you want a higher res signal, the best is to simply have everything working at that res.
For instance in the last demo videos, I'm using the system on a pc crt at 1025x768@75Hz.

I don't think you are hearing me on this one.  I'm not using it as an upscaler.... it's outputting native res which the tv accepts happily as it's a 1999 crt SD tv, one of the first to have component input.   the only thing it's doing is modifying the color space and I think the chip does that at the hardware level, I'm not sure.   Timing is the only issue here, not resolution.
I heard you, I'm just saying the GBS-C has a (digital?) frame buffer, and a buffer means latency, minimal or not, native resolution output or not, it doesn't matter.
So no, it won't work.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2021, 04:09:48 am »
I heard you, I'm just saying the GBS-C has a (digital?) frame buffer, and a buffer means latency, minimal or not, native resolution output or not, it doesn't matter.
So no, it won't work.

When we have a chance we definitely must see if GreenAntz is fast enough to work with GUN4CRT for component CRT SDTV.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2021, 04:21:44 am »
I heard you, I'm just saying the GBS-C has a (digital?) frame buffer, and a buffer means latency, minimal or not, native resolution output or not, it doesn't matter.
So no, it won't work.

When we have a chance we definitely must see if GreenAntz is fast enough to work with GUN4CRT for component CRT SDTV.
Indeed, we have to try it :D

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2021, 10:36:04 pm »
JayBee, what constitutes as a compatible gcon gun?

I own a nyko cobra I assume to be ps1 compatible (got it used at a swap meet...)
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2021, 11:04:24 pm »
JayBee, what constitutes as a compatible gcon gun?

I own a nyko cobra I assume to be ps1 compatible (got it used at a swap meet...)
In my newer prototype, this adapter support every single PS1 compatible gun. So yeah it should work fine  :lol

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2021, 11:44:34 pm »
Can we volunteer to test this prototype out?


I would be glad to finally retire my first gen ActLab lightgun...
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2021, 12:14:17 am »
Can we volunteer to test this prototype out?


I would be glad to finally retire my first gen ActLab lightgun...
Haha thanks but I already have a lot of testers for this one  :lol
If I need more testers I will sure tell you  ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2021, 08:33:55 pm »
This is my current light gun...

3 things different between 1st Gen ActLab lightgun and subsequent ones are

-doesn't look very good
-doesn't have any disconnect between gun and box (mounting in arcade is a problem)
-is ugly

... Did I say it isn't good looking?
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2021, 04:57:30 pm »
JB, how does calibration work on your system? Does it even need calibration?


I somewhat hope for a CRT based lightgun that wouldn't require constant calibration, and works for two players.

That new system of yours looks promising on this end.
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2021, 05:09:45 pm »
JB, how does calibration work on your system? Does it even need calibration?


I somewhat hope for a CRT based lightgun that wouldn't require constant calibration, and works for two players.

That new system of yours looks promising on this end.
The calibration part is still a WIP, but basically it's semi automatic.
It will try to detect the resolution and everything to Calculate the calibration.
It works nicely for content that has standard resolutions and timing, but is a little bit more tricky for video modes with weird and unusual timing.
I might add a button on the adapter to trigger quick calibration adjustments that should stay on the same video mode.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2021, 05:59:57 pm »


I might add a button on the adapter to trigger quick calibration adjustments that should stay on the same video mode.

Si je comprends bien....

We'd only need to calibrate once per resolution, and it would then remain saved within the device for future use?

Ça serait juste parfait ça!
Sérieusement, si on a pas besoin de calibrer une fois tout finalisé, c'est parfait. Les joueurs d'une borne d'arcade ne sont pas tous des adeptes de technologie...
Surtout si on veut rendre le tout disponible à la visite!



Something that could be helpful, maybe as advanced settings, could be manual tweaking of the calibrated position, to help with parallax support for those who'd need it, or for when calibration is less than perfect.
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2021, 11:42:09 pm »


I might add a button on the adapter to trigger quick calibration adjustments that should stay on the same video mode.

Si je comprends bien....

We'd only need to calibrate once per resolution, and it would then remain saved within the device for future use?

Ça serait juste parfait ça!
Sérieusement, si on a pas besoin de calibrer une fois tout finalisé, c'est parfait. Les joueurs d'une borne d'arcade ne sont pas tous des adeptes de technologie...
Surtout si on veut rendre le tout disponible à la visite!



Something that could be helpful, maybe as advanced settings, could be manual tweaking of the calibrated position, to help with parallax support for those who'd need it, or for when calibration is less than perfect.
Oui tu as bien compris  :cheers:
And yes, I'm planning to make a tool where you can manually change profiles and load them into the adapter   8)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2021, 11:00:10 am »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2021, 12:25:53 pm »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks
I must say psx guns with recoil are harder and harder to come by.
But the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2021, 01:17:39 pm »
@JayBee I am planing changes to my stand-up cabinet in the upcoming months and would like to plan future gun upgrades...

What are the connections between box2crt and the gun?
I'm assuming a dualshock connector...

While there are extensions for these, anyone know of panel mount options?
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2021, 07:46:29 am »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2021, 07:57:04 am »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.



... the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

I think JayBee just answered that it should
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2021, 07:59:10 am »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.
Yes, it totally will  ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2021, 08:28:20 am »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.
Yes, it totally will  ;)

Great thanks. Sorry, missed that response earlier. Will definitely get one then. Love your GUN4IR as well!

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2021, 08:29:22 pm »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.
Yes, it totally will  ;)

Great thanks. Sorry, missed that response earlier. Will definitely get one then. Love your GUN4IR as well!
I am tempted to find an arcade lightgun since he mentioned this fact....
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2021, 09:02:07 pm »
Quick question - is there a plan for this to support arcade crt lightguns as well? I have a Virtua Cop 2 arcade cab, and would like to play VC1 in it using Model 2 emulator, but with the VC2 lightguns.
Yes, it totally will  ;)

Great thanks. Sorry, missed that response earlier. Will definitely get one then. Love your GUN4IR as well!
I am tempted to find an arcade lightgun since he mentioned this fact....

Yeah, me too. Honestly, I'm tempted to build an entire multi light gun cab.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2021, 10:46:38 pm »
Yeah, me too. Honestly, I'm tempted to build an entire multi light gun cab.

This makes a lot of sense  8)
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2021, 03:32:28 pm »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks
I must say psx guns with recoil are harder and harder to come by.
But the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

Well, are those arcade guns really easier to find than PS1 recoil guns I wonder.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2021, 01:47:24 am »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks
I must say psx guns with recoil are harder and harder to come by.
But the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

Well, are those arcade guns really easier to find than PS1 recoil guns I wonder.
If you order them from the distributors out there, yes they are easier to find. Not necessarily cheaper tho, just more common.
Also the psx guns with recoil won't have any advanced feature for the recoil, as they can't be directly controlled by my adapter.
Arcade guns feedbacks will be fully supported.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2021, 05:28:05 am »
Also the psx guns with recoil won't have any advanced feature for the recoil, as they can't be directly controlled by my adapter.
[/quote]
Perhaps  we can separate the recoil system to make this work also

Do we need the component Signal to make your adapter works?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 05:30:54 am by bandicoot »

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2021, 05:44:44 am »
Also the psx guns with recoil won't have any advanced feature for the recoil, as they can't be directly controlled by my adapter.
Perhaps  we can separate the recoil system to make this work also

Do we need the component Signal to make your adapter works?
[/quote]
That is indeed entirely possible if you are willing to sacrifice the original gun  :lol
And yes you do need to use the composite signal for the gun to work on crt.
You'd need to add a wire for the solenoid control.
I also considered using a psx port unused pin for that, if the gun wire has it. But it wouldn't be failproof.
So I will see what can be done.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2021, 07:55:02 pm »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks
I must say psx guns with recoil are harder and harder to come by.
But the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

Well, are those arcade guns really easier to find than PS1 recoil guns I wonder.
If you order them from the distributors out there, yes they are easier to find. Not necessarily cheaper tho, just more common.
Also the psx guns with recoil won't have any advanced feature for the recoil, as they can't be directly controlled by my adapter.
Arcade guns feedbacks will be fully supported.

Well I'm not sure I understand what no advanced recoil features means exactly. On a PSX, is the recoil activated when the trigger is pulled or by some feedback signal from the console/game?


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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2021, 10:16:19 pm »



Well I'm not sure I understand what no advanced recoil features means exactly. On a PSX, is the recoil activated when the trigger is pulled or by some feedback signal from the console/game?

I think there can be automatic modes, not only single shots...
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2021, 10:34:19 pm »
Looks great! I guess this is the device a lot of people including me have been waiting for a long time.

I've ordered a GCon already but would also like a gun with recoil. Any recommendation?

Thanks
I must say psx guns with recoil are harder and harder to come by.
But the adapter will also support arcade guns, so if you are willing to get a real arcade gun with recoil and crt sensor in it, it should work ;)

Well, are those arcade guns really easier to find than PS1 recoil guns I wonder.
If you order them from the distributors out there, yes they are easier to find. Not necessarily cheaper tho, just more common.
Also the psx guns with recoil won't have any advanced feature for the recoil, as they can't be directly controlled by my adapter.
Arcade guns feedbacks will be fully supported.

Well I'm not sure I understand what no advanced recoil features means exactly. On a PSX, is the recoil activated when the trigger is pulled or by some feedback signal from the console/game?
Advanced features means being able to fully control the recoil and other feedback with my adapter, allowing the fine tune its behavior, and also sync it with in game feedbacks for games that support it (with mamehooker for instance).
On the psx there are no officially supported feedbacks from the console or game, it's only handled by the gun electronic (usually on/off/fullauto modes only).

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2021, 06:35:42 am »
Advanced features means being able to fully control the recoil and other feedback with my adapter, allowing the fine tune its behavior, and also sync it with in game feedbacks for games that support it (with mamehooker for instance).
On the psx there are no officially supported feedbacks from the console or game, it's only handled by the gun electronic (usually on/off/fullauto modes only).

Ok thank you for your explanation.

Regarding arcade guns, are there any specification I should look for or anything will be fine as long as it's arcade crt stuff?

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2021, 07:11:21 am »
Advanced features means being able to fully control the recoil and other feedback with my adapter, allowing the fine tune its behavior, and also sync it with in game feedbacks for games that support it (with mamehooker for instance).
On the psx there are no officially supported feedbacks from the console or game, it's only handled by the gun electronic (usually on/off/fullauto modes only).

Ok thank you for your explanation.

Regarding arcade guns, are there any specification I should look for or anything will be fine as long as it's arcade crt stuff?
I haven't tested them all yet, but I will publish an officially supported list whenever it's ready  ;D

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2021, 08:51:38 am »
Advanced features means being able to fully control the recoil and other feedback with my adapter, allowing the fine tune its behavior, and also sync it with in game feedbacks for games that support it (with mamehooker for instance).
On the psx there are no officially supported feedbacks from the console or game, it's only handled by the gun electronic (usually on/off/fullauto modes only).

Ok thank you for your explanation.

Regarding arcade guns, are there any specification I should look for or anything will be fine as long as it's arcade crt stuff?
I haven't tested them all yet, but I will publish an officially supported list whenever it's ready  ;D

Well noted and thanks for providing us with great gaming gun solutions!

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2021, 07:04:33 pm »
JayBee, would your system be compatible with an actlab lightgun, now that we have identified their pinout?

I'm thinking of ordering another spare gun from them while they still have some, in order to have a pair.



without a box to connect to, they are rather useless...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 11:47:54 pm by Marsupial »
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #88 on: May 31, 2021, 06:17:56 am »
JayBee, would your system be compatible with an actlab lightgun, now that we have identified their pinout?

I'm thinking of ordering another spare gun from them while they still have some, in order to have a pair.



without a box to connect to, they are rather useless...
I am not sure, but tbh I don't really see the point of doing that since the actlab guns do have very similar functions as my guns.
And it would be a bit of a waste in my opinion, since any cheaper gun will work as well on my adapter.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2021, 11:18:33 am »
Actlab are no longer available, but they still have the red replacement gun available in liquidation for rather cheap.

Don't know for how long.

If they would have been compatible with your system, I'd have snagged one while there's still some.

So, thanks for the info, you just saved me 30$ lol
-Mars

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #90 on: May 31, 2021, 11:47:27 am »
Actlab are no longer available, but they still have the red replacement gun available in liquidation for rather cheap.

Don't know for how long.

If they would have been compatible with your system, I'd have snagged one while there's still some.

So, thanks for the info, you just saved me 30$ lol
I see   :lol
Issue here is that even if you have the pinout, we can't be sure about the logic the gun is using.
So it's a bit of a gamble.

Marsupial

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2021, 09:21:01 pm »
Actlab are no longer available, but they still have the red replacement gun available in liquidation for rather cheap.

Don't know for how long.

If they would have been compatible with your system, I'd have snagged one while there's still some.

So, thanks for the info, you just saved me 30$ lol
I see   
Issue here is that even if you have the pinout, we can't be sure about the logic the gun is using.
So it's a bit of a gamble.
There is no logic in the gun. The components are directly wired to the box. The logic is all in the box.
-Mars

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2021, 09:41:35 pm »
Actlab are no longer available, but they still have the red replacement gun available in liquidation for rather cheap.

Don't know for how long.

If they would have been compatible with your system, I'd have snagged one while there's still some.

So, thanks for the info, you just saved me 30$ lol
I see   
Issue here is that even if you have the pinout, we can't be sure about the logic the gun is using.
So it's a bit of a gamble.
There is no logic in the gun. The components are directly wired to the box. The logic is all in the box.
I meant the logic of the sensor and fhe buttons.
I'd bet it's active low for both sensor and buttons, like most guns, but that's not 100% sure.
It could be analog light sensor and handle by the outside board, and active low for the buttons, no way to know without checking the gun inside.

Marsupial

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2021, 09:49:32 pm »
That's what I meant, I already poked at the guts of the gun when looking to change the board from their gen 1 to newer model.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=165030.msg1739986.msg#1739986

It is an analog light sensor with zero logic in the gun, the cable is directly connected to the sensor - gnd/5v/sig

The buttons are actively connecting to ground when pressed.

-Mars

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2021, 09:58:42 pm »
That's what I meant, I already poked at the guts of the gun when looking to change the board from their gen 1 to newer model.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=165030.msg1739986.msg#1739986

It is an analog light sensor with zero logic in the gun, the cable is directly connected to the sensor - gnd/5v/sig

The buttons are actively connecting to ground when pressed.
I see. There are still various kinds of 3 pins sensors tho, with this 3 pins it could be logic state or analog, and checking if it's active low or active high is still needed  ;)

Marsupial

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2021, 10:09:19 pm »
That's what I meant, I already poked at the guts of the gun when looking to change the board from their gen 1 to newer model.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=165030.msg1739986.msg#1739986

It is an analog light sensor with zero logic in the gun, the cable is directly connected to the sensor - gnd/5v/sig

The buttons are actively connecting to ground when pressed.
I see. There are still various kinds of 3 pins sensors tho, with this 3 pins it could be logic state or analog, and checking if it's active low or active high is still needed  ;)
Being that it was sold in early 2000, I'd bet it's a plain analog sensor, but haven't made specific measurements on it.
Let me know if there's any measurements I can do that would help...
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2021, 02:13:08 am »
The Guncon I ordered from Japan finally arrived, I'm so ready for this!

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #97 on: August 11, 2021, 01:46:28 pm »
Can't wait for ordering...

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2021, 01:04:32 am »
Well, here I am trying to get my USB2Gun system finally set up correctly and really struggling to get recoil working and to calibrate the damn Guns properly, but now it seems that that whole setup might be obsolete. Will your system be compatible with Happ guns? You think this is something you might be offering soon? I’d be in. I’ve wanted a good CRT light gun cab for a loooong time and I’m just not having luck getting the USB2Gun working right. I’m not good with the stuff like so many on this board. Anyway, sounds like great work! Looking forward to a finished product!
Unbeatable Mortal Kombat Master

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2021, 06:02:50 am »
i just bought a crt bang olfuson that happens to just fit right in the cabinet.
i was already thinking ahead with led sensor where to put the sensor, this solution comes at the perfect time if no sensor is needed and accuracy is perfect

Hope to see the project soon
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 04:13:33 am by Moksi »

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2021, 04:08:32 pm »
Would GUN2CRT be able to work on an XBox? It's Hard to find good light guns on there and it would be cool to use it on VirtuaCop 3 and HoD3 etc

Moksi

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2021, 04:02:25 pm »
Any update how s this progress is going Jaybee   :)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2022, 08:53:58 am »


Hey guys,

Most of you probably know me already for my GUN4IR system, the lightgun system that works on pretty much any system/screen.

I have been teasing it for a while now, but here I officially announce my next upcoming lightgun system, that this time is focused only on CRT based gun.
It will take the shape of a VGA/USB box that will allow you to plug any Guncon/G-Con45 compatible gun on any system with a CRT screen.

Here are few of the features of that system;
  • Plug and play, just connect the adapter to your device and connect a GCon to it, and you're ready to go.
  • No IR sensor or any other special device needed. As it's using the native GCon protocol, that uses analog CRT raster, it will work out of the box
  • No special software/processing needed. Like my other system, it will have a standard input that works on any system (Windows, Linux, RPi, MiSTerFPGA...)
  • No need for special switches for different video mode. The device should be detecting every video mode automatically and adapt to it.

Here is a small demo of it working on the MiSTerFPGA;


What is the status of this?? I am quite keen to see it up and running and will almost certainly buy one

dmckean

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #103 on: March 19, 2022, 03:44:05 pm »
This project got put on hold due to the global parts shortage, unfortunately.


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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2022, 11:23:22 pm »
 :'(

Hope all this shortage crud gets sorted out soon.  I wanted one of these.

AMG KC

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2022, 03:07:24 am »
This project got put on hold due to the global parts shortage, unfortunately.

Well that is a shame, seems a couple places having this issue now.

I repair C4 Corvette dash clusters and have been waiting over 12 months to buy a plug in test unit for the later model clusters, but i can't get one because there is no parts available to build the damn things!!!

I am very interested in this project of yours though, will most certainly be keen to buy when you have something ready to go :)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #106 on: September 05, 2022, 06:36:42 am »
Please put me down for one (or two if two units are needed for two player).
It looks to be the best solution for those with a CRT who don't want to attach IR strips around the screen.

I hope the global shortage will soon be over so these and other parts become available.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2023, 05:43:43 am »
Hello,
Is this project still on track ? It seems to be the best way to play lightgun games for CRT holders...
Would it be possible to use it with UMSA ? I was thinking about something like this :   PC output using VGA (CRTEmudriver for 15khz native) --> Gun2CRT (output in VGA) --> UMSA

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2023, 02:10:10 pm »
Hello,
Is this project still on track ? It seems to be the best way to play lightgun games for CRT holders...
Would it be possible to use it with UMSA ? I was thinking about something like this :   PC output using VGA (CRTEmudriver for 15khz native) --> Gun2CRT (output in VGA) --> UMSA
It's on hold at the moment as I need to finish some other projects I have, but I'm planning to get back to it very soon.
Yes the gun2crt box should support most video standards, RGB, yuv and VGA, 15kHz and up, as passthrough and some additional features.
I'm not so sure what UMSA is tho.

Dalba

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2023, 02:52:59 am »
Nice to hear this project is still alive !
UMSA is  Ultimate Scart Adaptater. It allow you to plug a PC outputting 15khz signal in a easy way to CRT TV.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 03:10:16 am by Dalba »

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2023, 03:57:24 am »
Nice to hear this project is still alive !
UMSA is  Ultimate Scart Adaptater. It allow you to plug a PC outputting 15khz signal in a easy way to CRT TV.
Ah I see, so it's pretty much a sync and audio combiner with SCART output, very convenient. It doesn't seem to add any latency in the process (unless it's digital processing?) so yes it should work perfectly fine  ;)

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #111 on: May 04, 2023, 12:22:03 pm »
Any updates on this and if it's going to be compatible with Happ guns?

JayBee

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #112 on: May 04, 2023, 02:15:18 pm »
Any updates on this and if it's going to be compatible with Happ guns?
No update yet, I've had my hands full with the other projects lately. But yes it will work with happ guns.
It should be compatible with most of the raster detection based CRT guns in existence :)

purbeast

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #113 on: May 04, 2023, 02:54:49 pm »
Any updates on this and if it's going to be compatible with Happ guns?
No update yet, I've had my hands full with the other projects lately. But yes it will work with happ guns.
It should be compatible with most of the raster detection based CRT guns in existence :)

Sounds awesome!

Any time frame that you can give on this?

I'm wondering because I was kind of starting to think about tracking down a USB2GUN and converting my multi jamma light gun cabinet to use a PC with games on there instead.

retroman2022

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2023, 01:59:46 pm »
Awsome this project.

javiso85@gmail.com

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2023, 04:55:16 pm »
Impressive project!!!

When will be able to purchase this item?

Moksi

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #116 on: December 28, 2023, 07:50:26 am »
yes hope we can expect it in 2024

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #117 on: December 28, 2023, 11:27:29 am »
Light gun for 2024 would be awesome
-Mars

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #118 on: January 08, 2024, 06:34:33 pm »
Waiting patiently for this one. I want the purest experience possible, so I'm running GroovyMAME on a multisync Billabs CRT. I don't like the white border of the Sinden and mounting an IR sensor isn't clean either. This seems like the best solution to come along for the community.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 06:36:15 pm by the_77x42 »

purbeast

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #119 on: January 09, 2024, 05:13:38 pm »
Waiting patiently for this one. I want the purest experience possible, so I'm running GroovyMAME on a multisync Billabs CRT. I don't like the white border of the Sinden and mounting an IR sensor isn't clean either. This seems like the best solution to come along for the community.

What are you using for your front end?

I am planning on putting together my light gun GroovyMAME setup at some point and was going to just use HyperSpin like I have in my KI2 cabinet, but if there is something else that is better for light gun interfaces, I'd rather use that.

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Re: GUN2CRT, the new universal CRT lightgun adapter
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2024, 06:19:51 pm »
What are you using for your front end?

I use AdvMenuPLUS. While not explicitly for lightguns and I haven't tried one with it, it's highly customizable and provides the cleanest interface I've seen.