Question about video cards

[tonyt76]

Which is the newest video card that works with Groovymame & Atom-15?

[lilshawn]

why you got a couple thousand laying around to try and buy cryptoscalper cards?

basically anything Radeon X800 and later.

[Zebidee]

basically anything Radeon X800 and later.

I couldn't get Atom-15 to work with an X1050 - can't recall exact reason but came down to too old. If using Windows, for Radeon X300-X1050 series cards you can't use them with Win7+, but will work in WinXP and older CRT_emulator driver.

There isn't much point to chasing newer gruntier video cards for GroovyMAME/MAME as it doesn't push their performance. Most people would just recommend something HD5000+ with analogue RGB outputs.

Refer the list/guide here
https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

[tonyt76]

In addition to Groovymame I want to use the Dolphin emulator but my HD6450 needs more power.

[lilshawn]

who want arcade stuff that normally plays at 15k...but then also wants console? (720p/1080p)

trying to everything in one usually make a bad machine. (complicated and cluttered control panels and supar video all around)

pick a subset and run with it. trying to stretch 15k onto hd screen or trying to mash hd onto 15k won't work great either way yo do it.

[dmckean]

I agree.

Too many compromises on new graphics cards right now that I can't live with. Heck, I'm having a hard time living with the compromises of CRT_emu/Groovymame/HD6450 setup after spending some time with a MiSTer.

Ultimately, I think we need our own video hardware if we really want to move into the future. I just don't see it happening though, MAME has a really poor reputation these days.

[Calamity]

MAME has a really poor reputation these days.

I wasn't aware of that.

[Calamity]

Which is the newest video card that works with Groovymame & Atom-15?

For ATOM-15 you need analog outputs, and you probably should look for something from the R5/R7 era. It's a matter of luck though, some bioses don't have enough room for the patch. In those cases you need to find a compatible bios from other manufacturer with enough free space.

In general, for GM it's better to go with an entry/mid level card, definitely not as old as the HD 5000 if possible, despite what you'll see recommended over and over. I don't like cards too big or with too many outputs.

[donluca]

There isn't much point to chasing newer gruntier video cards for GroovyMAME/MAME as it doesn't push their performance. Most people would just recommend something HD5000+ with analogue RGB outputs.

I've said this already in other threads (this is a very common question which I see pop up very frequently), but I'll repeat this here: newer cards buy you a better DAC which will give you a better image, crisper, more vivid colours.

It's not just about the grunt, it's about the technology used in translating the digital signals to analog.

[Zebidee]

There isn't much point to chasing newer gruntier video cards for GroovyMAME/MAME as it doesn't push their performance. Most people would just recommend something HD5000+ with analogue RGB outputs.

I've said this already in other threads (this is a very common question which I see pop up very frequently), but I'll repeat this here: newer cards buy you a better DAC which will give you a better image, crisper, more vivid colours.

It's not just about the grunt, it's about the technology used in translating the digital signals to analog.

I looked this up and Wikipedia says that RAMDAC (that is a set of 3 DACs built onto a chip with a little bit of RAM) speeds haven't really changed since 2006 (~400MHz with some exceptions). Also that DACs are essentially obsolete with "true color" modes and obviously with digital-only video signals.

The DAC needs to be fast, but all that really matters is that it is fast enough, faster than the monitor's ability to display an image. For 15khz CRTs using GM with super resolutions the maximum might be (2560*576*60) * 1.5 (allow for blanking lines) = estimated 132.71MHz speed required, well below 400MHz capability of most modern GPUs. After that any performance improvement regarding colour sharpness/clarity must be very marginal at best.

Maybe a VGA monitor could come close to the limit, but only at very high resolutions or refresh rates.

If you look around you'll find some discussion of this on overclocking forums, where they generally come to the conclusion that overclocking RAMDAC is pretty pointless in most cases, and the discussion just disappears in the era of digital displays.

So I just don't see that there is any way a faster DAC will make my blues bluer or my lines crisper, these things are determined by the limitations of my analogue display.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAMDAC

[Zebidee]

In general, for GM it's better to go with an entry/mid level card, definitely not as old as the HD 5000 if possible, despite what you'll see recommended over and over. I don't like cards too big or with too many outputs.

+1 to that, some older cards run pretty hot too

[donluca]

Still, if you look at the difference in image quality between, say, an x700 and an HD5450, it's pretty obvious (I know because I wasn't expecting it and it really surprised me).

The colors on the HD5450 were definitely more vivid and the image sharper on my BVM.

Again, I want to stress that I wasn't expecting any image quality increase (I was just upgrading from winXP to Win7 for my GM box), but I was surprised at the difference it made.

[schmerzkaufen]

Point of a powerful GPU is only if you want to do more than just the usual GroovyMAME on low res CRT.

Like also use heavy consoles emulators that use the GPU's muscles (128bit and next gen consoles) indeed, or play relatively recent times arcade straight 'ports' *cough*

Or set up Groovy for a flat panel as main monitor setup, which demands considerably more GPU power IF using frame_delay, than for a low res CRT.*




*(yes lcd monitors compatible with Emudrivers exist I own two. that gives you a result like VRR, but without the FreeSync nor G-Sync branding)

[donluca]

I'm pretty sure this has already been replied to elsewhere, but how much does frame_delay tax the GPU on CRT?

I've never had any issue with my meager HD5450

[schmerzkaufen]

AFAIK it depends on output resolution, rather than display tech per-se.

So even on a low-res 15Khz, using frame_delay on super resolutions should tax the GPU more than with low dotclock modes (logically?)

Though maybe with a strong CPU (which is your case iirc) you'll never see any difference in frame_delay performance, even if the GPU is low-end.

Also stating the ovious but MAME drivers, even some of the 80's stuff, get heavier over time as for instance sound emulation improves, so if the CPU load becomes significantly higher than usual there's maybe less time allocated for frame_delay and the GPU to deal with it.

Older toaster-tier Groovy PC setups that haven't been updated in ages, might struggle if updated today, even if we're still in the 15KHz CRT realm.

Yeah I agree R5, R7 series aren't bad at all and not-too-old.

[tonyt76]

I am looking for a card that can do 15khz & 640x480 emulation like Dolphin, Redream and Sega Model 3.

How do newer cards like the Radeon RX Vega Series work? Must you use a HDMI to VGA adapter?

[Calamity]

I'd say there are cards from the R9 era than can handle Dolphin and still have analog outputs. The Vegas work as far as I've tested them (I've got the Vega 56), though super resolutions are mandatory, and an HDMI to VGA dongle too. It's not an ideal setup unless you have enough experience with the "normal" older Radeons and know how to circunvent the issues. For emulators that can't handle super resolutions it's not an option.

[schmerzkaufen]

@tony: Not 100% guaranteed but I think we've read on the forums that the R9 380 supports ATOM15, but not the R9 380X (though iirc someone found a workaround, seek the forum)

[tonyt76]

I've searched but can't find it. If anyone could tell me how to get ATOM-15 to work on a R9 380 or 380X, I would forever be grateful.

[Zebidee]

This is the Atom15 support page:
https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=64

There is info on this forum, but search function is borked. You can still search like this with google etc:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com atom15

Quick search of my own came up with this on that R9380X
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=161351.0

[tonyt76]

So far I haven't found any evidence suggesting that ATOM-15 works on a R9 380 or 380X.

I have a tri-sync arcade monitor so I only really need 31kHZ support for startup. Has anyone had any luck with ATOM-15 on these 2 cards?

[Calamity]

The fact that ATOM-15 works with one card depends on its vendor bios, not the model. So there could be one R9 380 from, let's say Asus, that ATOM-15  patches successfully, and one from MSI that ATOM fails with. Some vendors bloat their bioses more than others. And what you need is some free space for the patch.

[tonyt76]

An easy way to test this before you buy the card is to download the bios from techpowerup first and try to patch it using ATOM-15. If you can't then don't bother buying the card.

[Calamity]

I'm afraid that's not a valid test either, because the bios in your actual card will probably different to that on techpowerup, even with matching models and vendor.