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Author Topic: Flip - a compact vpin machine...  (Read 1975 times)

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markc74

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Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« on: January 10, 2021, 05:12:11 am »
Finally got around to starting my vpin build. Iíve had the bits for this thing for years - just never the time or the space to do it. Well now I have *some* time, but still very little space, so Iíve had to be a little creative in my design for this thing.

Itís called Flip for a couple of reasons - itís an obvious play on the flippers from pinball, it goes along with Blip, and the playfield can be Ďflippedí into play when itís being used, and flipped down when not - saving a *lot* of spaceÖ if it all works out as planned then the final cab shouldnít be more than a foot deep when not being used.

Hereís a model of what I am going forÖ (clicky make biggy)



The backbox part of the cabinet will be mounted to the wall with heavy bolts. Luckily I have solid walls and it can take the weight easily. When the table is up, foldable breakfast bar legs will support the front of the cabinet meaning the weight is evenly distributed.

The main points of stress will be the hinges connecting the backbox to the playfield part, so I will be using heavy-duty hinges for this part secured via bolts to the frame. Iíve tested these hinges out already and theyíre more than strong enough for this.

The PC will be housed in the backbox as I do not want that moving around. I am trying to keep the majority of the weight in the backbox.

Iíll be using a 24Ē 16:10 monitor for the backbox, a 43Ē 4K TV for the playfield along with a real DMD. For a change Iíll be building the entire cabinet from plywood as itís lighter and more rigid than MDF (albeit more tricky to work with)

First cutting of wood starts tomorrow... let's see how many injuries I do to myself this time!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 03:14:50 pm by markc74 »

morton

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2021, 08:22:51 am »
Something told me to check the Project Announcements page... And, as always, you do not disappoint! The names you come up with are also as well thought out as your builds. I'd be disappointed if you had a pirate theme and called it "Arrrgh-cade". It would still be cool, but you've led me to expect better from you than that :lol

wp34

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2021, 09:48:25 am »
That's a clever design.   :cheers:

I'm Really glad to see you are back at it with a new project.  This will be fun to follow.

javeryh

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2021, 10:21:04 am »
oh man can't wait to see how this turns out so I can copy it.   ;D

markc74

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 01:46:14 pm »
I'd be disappointed if you had a pirate theme and called it "Arrrgh-cade".
Next on the list!

I'm Really glad to see you are back at it with a new project.  This will be fun to follow.
Cheers! It should be fun to build. It's a lot smaller than a fullsize cab so the pieces are easier to handle. That said, there's some pretty tight tolerances and I think getting some of the curves right is going to be tricky. I'm planning on taking my time with this.

oh man can't wait to see how this turns out so I can copy it.   ;D
... and make it better no doubt! Your woodgrain cab is looking very very nice  :cheers:

The major thing I'm not sure about (although there are 100 things that I'm minorly not sure about!), is the angle of the playfield, which will dictate the backbox mounting height. I mocked it up at the 6 degrees recommended somewhere but it didn't seem anywhere near steep enough visually so I might have to play around with that. Unless anyone who has used one of these things has any ideas?


LTC

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 08:27:18 pm »
 I love your design. The table side almost looks like a flipper if it was a bit narrower towards the front and rounded off some. I know functionality really limits the shape you can go with.

As far as your concern with the angle, my personal thought is 6 degrees will be fine. I played with angles when building mine and the playfield is at about 4 degrees.

This will be a fun project to watch take shape.  :cheers:

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 09:03:47 pm »
Very cool! Couple questions -

Instead of mounting it to the wall, is there any way you could put back legs on to make it free standing and require less beefy hinges?

Any concern about the screen or glass being vulnerable to kicks or accidents when flipped away for storage?

Lastly, is there anything cool you can do with it when it's flipped for storage that makes it useful still? Like, make it a giant digital picture frame, or display a clock, be a jukebox, or maybe a weather\traffic station?

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2021, 09:53:19 pm »
Interesting project as always! Like Lepinlew I'm worried about any damage. All will be black when not used so I don't see the benefit to let it open like that. Folded backward could be better and you could add a dart game at the back.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 12:35:35 am »
Will be interesting to see how something bolted to the wall will affect nudge in the long run. Something has to give.

markc74

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 04:57:29 am »
I love your design. The table side almost looks like a flipper if it was a bit narrower towards the front and rounded off some. I know functionality really limits the shape you can go with.

As far as your concern with the angle, my personal thought is 6 degrees will be fine. I played with angles when building mine and the playfield is at about 4 degrees.

Thanks for that! That's cool to know - the shallower the angle then the lower I can place the backbox. And yes - the playfield part is supposed to look like a flipper. It's more obvious when looked at side on. It's definitely one of the more difficult pieces to build though as when lifting the playfield part I want it to rotate on an axis.

Very cool! Couple questions -

Instead of mounting it to the wall, is there any way you could put back legs on to make it free standing and require less beefy hinges?

Any concern about the screen or glass being vulnerable to kicks or accidents when flipped away for storage?

Lastly, is there anything cool you can do with it when it's flipped for storage that makes it useful still? Like, make it a giant digital picture frame, or display a clock, be a jukebox, or maybe a weather\traffic station?

I did think about the back legs thing - and may end up using something if it looks like it's not rock solid. It is something I'm bearing in mind along with the playfield glass strength. I was going to use tempered(?) glass which should be able to handle the occasional bump. I am trying to avoid using perspex as it scratches way to easily - but may end up going that way.

A jukebox sounds like a cool idea though - I hadn't thought of that!

Interesting project as always! Like Lepinlew I'm worried about any damage. All will be black when not used so I don't see the benefit to let it open like that. Folded backward could be better and you could add a dart game at the back.

Folded backwards was my original plan, but I couldn't find a nice way to design it without it looking like a huge ungainly box. And I'm not allowed the have a dartboard in the house anymore after a prior 'incident'  ;D

Will be interesting to see how something bolted to the wall will affect nudge in the long run. Something has to give.

Nudge is an interesting one. I do like the idea of a nudge and I think there might be enough 'give' at the front to support it. I may end up adding buttons to control nudge instead but I'll try it out once the initial basic build is done.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 12:45:03 pm »
Like Lew, Iíd be concerned with having the screen that low and exposed. Even with glass, it seems vulnerable.


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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2021, 10:09:25 pm »
I hate everything about this.

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

Laythe

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2021, 11:17:13 pm »
I dig it! 

I see you rotate your rotating vpin perpendicular to my rotating vpin... but your schwartz is as big as mine.

I found six degrees to be the minimum angle that looked and felt okay to me, if the playfield is parallel to the top edge of the playfield box.  I suspect you could go steeper if you wanted.  Some people set the PF monitor more flat than the taper of the box that it is in, which may contribute to you getting reports of differing incline numbers.


markc74

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2021, 04:07:56 am »
Like Lew, Iíd be concerned with having the screen that low and exposed. Even with glass, it seems vulnerable.

Seems to be a common concern - I'm gonna think about this bit some more. I assumed toughened glass would be strong enough to handle the odd bump but maybe I'm inviting trouble. The location where it will be placed is out of the usual walking about area (in between existing cabs and a table) but still...

I hate everything about this.

I really wish you wouldn't sit on the fence with this. ;) It's definitely not a cab for everyone, but will suit my purposes fine


I found six degrees to be the minimum angle that looked and felt okay to me, if the playfield is parallel to the top edge of the playfield box.  I suspect you could go steeper if you wanted.  Some people set the PF monitor more flat than the taper of the box that it is in, which may contribute to you getting reports of differing incline numbers.

Cheers  :cheers: The playfield will likely be parallel to the top as I need to put the bass speaker at the back but I might fiddle with it a little. I'm leaning towards around 6-10 degrees. but when I'm further on and made the shell I can try it.

Unfortunately, the weather has been crap so I've not been able to start cutting yet. I've been doing some prelim artwork for the backbox though:



*Very* early draft meaning everything it's more about seeing what I could put on there. Background will change, fonts will probably change but I'm kinda liking how the logo works in the shape I have.

There likely wont be any artwork on the playfield sides as I want it to look like a flipper so might wrap it in white vinly. Haven't decided yet

Anyway - cheers for the feedback (good and *especially* bad  :))

Laythe

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2021, 08:12:54 am »
Cheers!   :cheers:

I like your side art idea regarding the logo.  Early, but that's got promise.  Good stuff. 

If you plan to use some physical vpin toys, it helps on projects like this to plan them in up front if you haven't already.  They make fake pinball a little less fake, and when you get clever about the overall form factor like this, you don't have an enormous cavernous trunk of a main cabinet box to stuff them into later.  They don't have to be physically huge, but they do consume space and have wiring implications.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2021, 10:23:23 am »
Thanks Laythe,

I have though a little about toys. There's space towards the back of the playfield, and the backbox has *some* space - certainly enough for wiring. If I do go for physical feedback then I was thinking about using something like Surround Sound Feedback (https://vpinball.com/forums/topic/welcome-to-the-new-ssf-surround-sound-feedback-forum-2/) using exciters but I need to look into it more

javeryh

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2021, 10:39:41 am »
What if you recessed the top into the wall and then had the playfield "flip" down instead of up? This would protect the playfield and you could even design it so there is artwork on the bottom that is displayed when the cabinet is not in use.

tomton

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 05:25:42 am »
i really like this idea!
i like pinball machines but the amount of space they take puts me off having one but this could be great solution to this problem.

i'm going to follow this build and see how it turns out and maybe build my own version one day.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin table...
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2021, 03:11:41 pm »
Got started on the actually build today  ;D - basically cutting the two sides for the playfield. They are quite narrow (22cm/9" at the widest point) tapering down to 12cm at the narrowest. According to my measurements that should give me a little room to manoeuvre with the playfield monitor (although not much!). The monitor I'm using is only 2cm thick at the edges so should be ok for side/front buttons



Made a copy with the router / pattern bit



I didn't take any pictures after that but also ran the slot cutter around the sides while I had all the tools out.

Reminded me how much I hate slot cutting. Usually I do it at the end and then get stressed about it in case I screw up a nearly finished piece so thought I'd do it early this time. It went ok this time but damn - that cutter is my nemesis...


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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2021, 04:09:18 pm »
Interesting idea, cant wait to see it come together!

I am in the process of building a full size vpin. I dont have the space for one but I am sure some piece of furniture can be thrown out  :laugh:

IDK if you have a welder, but your hinge got me thinking about nudging. If you want to be able to nudge physically (not nudge buttons) and you can anchor a steel frame to the wall extremely well maybe use a rubber isolators (ie like the end of a car shock that the bolt goes through) as a hinge. You should be able to give it some left-right nudge that way instead of a solid hinge that might rip it off the wall.

https://www.daymotorsports.com/glide/uploads/catalog/p/r/pro-s500.jpg/?w=300&h=300&fit=fill

markc74

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2021, 06:02:47 pm »
That's not a bad idea. The closest I've been to welding is using a soldering iron(!) but I do know some people who could do that. It would take the strain away from the hinges.

I'm not likely to be knocking 7 bells out of the cab anyway when nudging but would be good to know it could handle someone some abuse from guests

markc74

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2021, 06:01:09 am »
Had some time to work on this over the last week so things have moved on quite a bit. As I'm waiting for the playfield monitor to turn up, I thought I'd do some work on the backbox and get a feel for the size of the thing

Drew the profile of the side on 18mm ply and rough cut with a jigsaw



Then tidied up the curves



Then copied that piece



I've got a lot more than this done, but need to sort out pictures as once I get started I always forget to take them :)

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2021, 08:33:06 am »
Looking good.  Have you worked out the big hinge yet?

Lucky about the weather wherever you are - Iím buried under 20Ē of snow and canít use my tools for another 2 months or more!

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2021, 09:16:22 am »
I'll be using 2x 5 inch hinges. Apparently good for 120kg.

There may not be snow now but it is freezing. At least by UK standards. Certainly not pleasant outside.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2021, 03:48:32 pm »
Been spending some more time on the backbox recently. Cut and fixed the inner furring strips - which took a lot longer than I expected as I was trying to get everything perfect. After three pieces got thrown away, I eventually got it right.



Then tackled the back (simple 57cm square) and top (57cm x 12cm). To make the curve work on the back I needed to cut a 45 degree piece which again, took a long time as I kept making it too small. Eventually overcut it then took passes off with a file. Took forever but now seems to fit ok.

Before I could fit it I needed to cut holes for the fans - as the PC and the monitor will be in the back I needed some decent airflow so have two fan holes. I wanted a nice finish so I am using desk grommets to go around the hole. Bit of trimming needed so the fan can fit against it...





Screwed the whole lot together to see if everything fit and then routed out some space for the hinge to slot into





And thatís pretty much where Iím up to.

Plan is to finish the base and screw together to check the mechanism, and then all being well I can start gluing some of these pieces togetherÖ

javeryh

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2021, 04:57:24 pm »
Looks great!

Desk grommets are my go to finish for cutouts on my cabinets.  It's so easy and looks good enough for the back or bottom or wherever you vents go.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2021, 07:08:33 am »
Desk grommets are my go to finish for cutouts on my cabinets.  It's so easy and looks good enough for the back or bottom or wherever you vents go.

Yeah they're perfect for that - I'll be using them for the fans and speakers to give a tidy appearance. Came upon them while I was doing my little Atari type table-top cabs

A bit more has been happening. I have the top part primed now ready for painting and artwork. Loads of little nooks and crannies to get into and I'm not quite sure why I did all the inside as you'll never see it but I got carried away!



Had a bit of a turnaround with the sideart. I was playing around in Photoshop and decided that I wanted something cleaner. Hit upon a kinda modern retro look that I liked so have that sent off to the printers too.



This is the artwork that will go beneath the DMD. It's only really visible when the playfield is down as the playfield will cover it when the table is up. As soon as I had confirmation that the printer got it my missus said - why does it say "FLIG". Now I can't unsee it...  ???


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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2021, 08:41:07 am »
What....you rushed the artwork to the printer before we had a chance to tell you what's wrong with it?  LOL

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2021, 09:34:38 am »
What....you rushed the artwork to the printer before we had a chance to tell you what's wrong with it?  LOL

 :laugh2: I'm sure people still will!

Realised that getting the printing done was holding loads of things up so needed to get ---my bottom--- in gear on it.

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2021, 11:18:19 am »
What....you rushed the artwork to the printer before we had a chance to tell you what's wrong with it?  LOL

Before I scrolled down I already had some comments in my head but oh well!   ;D

Cabinet looks good - starting to take shape. 

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Re: Flip - a compact vpin machine...
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2021, 12:19:53 pm »
I kinda liked the first artwork version posted.  I struggle liking almost every vpin build I see posted because I love what's in mine and I see others and feel like they are always missing some of the items that make a vpin awesome.  For me its the sound and the force feedback otherwise you might as well be playing virtual pinball on a mame cab.  Its great that everyone wants to have the newest design that's never been done but I liked copying a real machine.  I have a car stereo system and all the bumpers and flippers have contactors that make the wood vibrate near your hands or wherever it would have on the real machine.  And when I hit the saucer on Attack from Mars I have a shaker that vibrates the crap out of the machine.  And the rear high power cree leds flashing is awesome.  You need a full sized pinball cabinet to fit all those toys and the enclosure works as a great speaker cab for the 10" sub woofer..  I get a smile on my face every time I play it.