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Author Topic: LAN and Ethernet cable questions  (Read 1707 times)

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Typefighter01

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LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« on: January 04, 2021, 09:29:41 pm »
Folks,

Built a house three years ago with the intent on never having kids. Year after finishing the main level we decided on having a child (or children) and got ourselves a pair of twin boys...so now we are finishing the basement as we will be short a bedroom.

I have two computer related questions that I need help on as half of the basement will be drywall ceiling and I would like to run a few cables and I am not sure what I need. The drywall is only going over ceiling that has no waterpipes etc and running conduit for future proofing is not an option as it would entail notching engineered joist bottom plate and I am not interested in doing that.

Question #1 - Boys rooms will be on opposite sides of the house and I want them to have the ability to play locally against each other...like a LAN party sort of arrangement (if I an even saying this correctly). It’s at least 10 years away before they will need it, but what cable do I need and does it just plug directly into the back of each PC? Can I just run a 50’ CAT6(7/8?) from one room to the other and just leave it terminated into a female wall plug and the boys can just plug in when they want to play each other?

Question #2 - In sort of the same vain, boys rooms will be roughly 25’ equally from the incoming internet (hub) and I want the ability for them to plug in directly with Ethernet cables. Would the flow be “Modem—>Router/Switch—>PC” and I assume they need a direct connection from PC to router/switch...no “y” adapters? Again too, am I looking for CAT6 or is running CAT8 my best shot at future proofing?

Everything else I want to do can be controlled over WiFi, just think this is something I will want to do while I have a chance. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 09:45:01 pm »
Hey bro, welcome back! How you been?


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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 12:24:17 am »
I wired my house 20 yrs ago with ethernet in the walls when I gutted.
I don't use it anymore on the second floor because wifi is easier and fast enough.

but on the first floor i just bought long ethernet cables to run from the switch in the basement to all the first floor PC's.
cheap and easy.

just get whatever long enough ethernet cable you can find.
1000/mbs is more than enough for home use and I don't see it going anywhere.
besides most routers and network cards use 1000/mbs.
you won't need any faster for lan gaming.

I'm not even sure what you would use faster than 1000/mbs for outside of a data center or a render farm / cluster.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 04:42:45 am »
Wifi is the way to go, and is less hassle.

You might want to install a chill out option.

Restricting power to each bedroom can be a great tool to employ.  Having it on a timer is also another option.

My brother installed this switch in his bedroom, and his kids are always on their best behavior.   ;D

Zebidee

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 05:51:42 am »
Cat6 cable is enough but it will rip your fingers up wiring the ports and cables as it is solid core stuff.

My phone stopped recognising my thumbprint after doing a bit of CAT6 for my local LAN-NAS-wifi setup.
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Dawgz Rule

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 06:56:53 am »
If you are going wired, your best option is to home run each room to a switch.   Cat5e is rated for 1000 Mbps and would be fine.

Depending on your home layout, wireless may be an easier option.   Wireless AC is rated at 1300 Mbps.   Throw a USB wireless adapter in each PC and away you go. 

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 07:01:09 am »
CAT 5e is 100mbps rated you need CAT6 and sore fingers for 1000mbps
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Typefighter01

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 07:39:51 am »
Hey bro, welcome back! How you been?

Hey Yots...I have been great. Built a house, new job as a Millwrights apprentice, two x 20month old boys and have lost 32lbs, so life is moving right along. Part of the basement finishing is a small home theatre and a little arcade room. Still have all my projects sans the jukebox which stalled. Once basement is finished I need to rebuild the Mame cab CP, so I will pop in more regularly then.

How are you?

but on the first floor i just bought long ethernet cables to run from the switch in the basement to all the first floor PC's.

My brother installed this switch in his bedroom, and his kids are always on their best behavior.   ;D

Modem is on the main floor, but I gather that for sure I need a switch? Do I need a switch and a router? At first I was thinking I needed two Ethernet cables...one to a switch/router just for internet and an Ethernet cable from bedroom to bedroom. Am I safe to assume with a switch or router I can surf the net AND LAN game in the house and forgo the second cable bedroom to bedroom only?

Sounds like CAT6 will do just fine and is pennies on the dollar.

Could one of you fine gentlemen just confirm for me that either a switch or a router will support both surfing the net and local LAN style gaming and it will save me running a secondary redundant cable from bedroom to bedroom?

dmckean

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 01:14:37 pm »
I wouldn't worry about things 10 years away, a lot could change with wifi, ethernet, internet speeds and more.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 02:18:13 pm »
I wouldn't worry about things 10 years away, a lot could change with wifi, ethernet, internet speeds and more.


This^^^

Any type of cable you run now is going to be obsolete by the time they use it IF they even use it.  My advice.... ditch the idea of a drywall ceiling as they are a pain in the ass anyway and put in some drop ceilings.  Then running cable becomes infinitely easier in the future.   

fallacy

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 03:34:35 pm »
A switch just ties together multiple cat 5 cables together. Most of these wi-fi routers you can buy probably have 4 or 5 switch ports in back you could just run your cable through the wall to your router /cable modem closet.

I also agree it will 95% chance it will just be a waste of your time running cable. You will probably end up selling your house before you ever use it not to mention wi-fie can cover all just as well. I get some people just enjoy wasting their time on projects like this so as long as you enjoy it.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:47:38 pm by fallacy »

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2021, 05:26:09 pm »
CAT 5e is 100mbps rated you need CAT6 and sore fingers for 1000mbps

Might not be rated but I use gigabit over Cat 5e in my house just fine. It would be downright foolish to use it for new installation though.

Typefighter01

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2021, 05:37:51 pm »
Everything I needed to know. Thanks all for your help. :cheers:

Zebidee

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2021, 06:33:09 pm »
CAT 5e is 100mbps rated you need CAT6 and sore fingers for 1000mbps

Might not be rated but I use gigabit over Cat 5e in my house just fine. It would be downright foolish to use it for new installation though.

That's great news when it happens. However, when I bought a new tp-link gigabit switch to upgrade my network, couldn't get gigabit over my 5e cables. Had to upgrade to CAT6.

Trouble is I still have a big box of 5e cable in my shed that is basically useless now, unless I want to use to to wire control panels (for which it is actually fairly effective).
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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 07:22:15 pm »
CAT 5e is 100mbps rated you need CAT6 and sore fingers for 1000mbps

Cat5 is 100 -- Cat5e is gb !

Quote
Category 5e (CAT5e) cable, also known as Enhanced Category 5, is designed to support full-duplex Fast Ethernet operation and Gigabit Ethernet.

Category   Standard Bandwidth   Max Data Rate   Shielding
Cat5e   100MHz (up to 350)   1000Mbps   UTP or STP
Cat6   250MHz (up to 550)   1000Mbps   UTP or STP
Cat6A   500MHz (up to 550)   10Gbps   UTP or STP
Cat7   600MHz   10Gbps   Shielded only
Cat8   2000MHz   25Gbps or 40Gbps   Shielded only

Source : http://www.cablek.com/technical-reference/cat-5---5e--6--6a---7--8-standards

Cat 6 is 10GB !

fallacy

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2021, 07:47:40 pm »
It is capable of those speeds, does not mean your internet provider is letting you get anywhere close to cat5E speeds.

Dawgz Rule

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2021, 07:49:36 pm »
Thank you JDFan.   Yes, Cat5e is absolutely rated for a Gig.   I would suspect crimping or termination issues with not being able to run Gig over Cat5e before I would suspect the cable itself. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 08:25:15 pm by Dawgz Rule »

Zebidee

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2021, 11:33:45 pm »
Thank you JDFan.   Yes, Cat5e is absolutely rated for a Gig.   I would suspect crimping or termination issues with not being able to run Gig over Cat5e before I would suspect the cable itself. 

Ahhh, OK my case may have been the mixed-bag of generic cables I was using before then. Once I made my own CAT6 cables all was good :D (well, except my poor fingers :P )
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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2021, 12:12:11 am »
Thank you JDFan.   Yes, Cat5e is absolutely rated for a Gig.   I would suspect crimping or termination issues with not being able to run Gig over Cat5e before I would suspect the cable itself.

Had to look it up because was pretty sure it was rated 1Gig - Had ordered a cheap cat5e cable to replace one my cat decided to chew on awhile back and when it arrived couldn't get my network to sync above 100MB using it and it was slowing down my internet connection almost as bad as the one the cat had put teeth marks in - looked at the cable and noticed it had Cat5 printed on the cable instead of cat5e - replaced it with another cat5e and the network went back to 1GB. 

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2021, 12:34:53 am »
... looked at the cable and noticed it had Cat5 printed on the cable instead of cat5e - replaced it with another cat5e and the network went back to 1GB.

This is very exciting to learn - because I have an old box of CAT5e cable in my shed with around 250m left in it!
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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2021, 10:51:33 am »
I wouldn't worry about things 10 years away, a lot could change with wifi, ethernet, internet speeds and more.

This^^^
Any type of cable you run now is going to be obsolete by the time they use it IF they even use it.  My advice.... ditch the idea of a drywall ceiling as they are a pain in the ass anyway and put in some drop ceilings.  Then running cable becomes infinitely easier in the future.   

+1. We're a house full of gamers and frequently have all 5 of us playing online games simultaneously, either together or separately and 5Ghz AC wifi from a single mesh point is more than sufficient. Wire your infrastructure, wifi to the clients. Between PCs, phones, tablets, home automation, cameras, or whatever I've got over 70 devices on my home wifi. Modern decent equipment can handle that kind of load without missing a beat.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2021, 11:16:07 am »
With AC, how is the bandwidth degradation with distance from the signal, and how does it handle solid structures in the house, like brick, as compared to a run-of-the-mill 802.11n wifi?

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2021, 12:35:40 pm »
I just use a HomePlug.  With the wiring in this place I get 720 mbps on average.  Not bad considering only get 100 mbps from Cox.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2021, 12:40:37 pm »
My house had plain old 2-wire RJ11 telephone jacks in just about every room when I moved in. One day I took one apart and realized they were actually using Cat 5e for wiring and just not using the other wires in the cable. I installed RJ45 on all of them and put a switch in the garage were they all converged and boom - home network.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2021, 08:55:08 pm »
Funny you should say that as it is pretty common.   The beauty of it is that even with an RJ-45, you can still use a standard telco plug if you want to use it as a phone line.  In one of my data center builds we ran Cat5e everywhere.  If we needed a fax machine we just cross connected that run to one of our DID line blocks. 

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2021, 02:32:51 pm »
Funny you should say that as it is pretty common.   The beauty of it is that even with an RJ-45, you can still use a standard telco plug if you want to use it as a phone line.  In one of my data center builds we ran Cat5e everywhere.  If we needed a fax machine we just cross connected that run to one of our DID line blocks.

You will require a filter before plugging in a RJ11 into a RJ45 socket, especially if you have ADSL.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2021, 07:16:11 pm »
The T568A and T568B standards were specifically designed to be able to support multiple standards.  This includes its ability to carry a POTS line as a POTS lines only requires Cat3 cable.  Not sure what the purpose of your filter is, but if you are looking to simple leverage an existing Cat5e run for an analog device, you don't need a filter.  The RJ11 plug will fit in the RJ45 jack without issue and will work fine.   As per my earlier post, I wired a whole building with Cat5e versus running mixed lines.  To use any run for an analog device simply required a cross connect from the panel to the DID block.  This is pretty common in a lot of businesses. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:00:17 pm by Dawgz Rule »

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2021, 06:12:24 am »
The T568A and T568B standards were specifically designed to be able to support multiple standards.  This includes its ability to carry a POTS line as a POTS lines only requires Cat3 cable.  Not sure what the purpose of your filter is, but if you are looking to simple leverage an existing Cat5e run for an analog device, you don't need a filter.  The RJ11 plug will fit in the RJ45 jack without issue and will work fine.   As per my earlier post, I wired a whole building with Cat5e versus running mixed lines.  To use any run for an analog device simply required a cross connect from the panel to the DID block.  This is pretty company in a lot of businesses.

Oh I must have been doing it wrong for over 35 years then.   ::)

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2021, 03:55:29 pm »
It may not be "wrong", but certainly is unnecessary for the application that I am presenting.  We could simply be talking about two different scenarios here.

In the specific application of a DSL line, you might need such a filter or a filter/splitter.   That's a very specific application and use and has nothing to do with ethernet as it does with the fact that it is DSL. 

On the other hand, if I am simply plugging into an ethernet jack with an analog device and using that run all the way back to a block, it's a straight copper run.  More importantly, it's a straight copper run on a cable that far exceeds the Cat3  standard for such devices. 

Perhaps if you can explain the purpose of this filter you keep referring to, it might help me understand where our disconnect is?

I honestly don't know how much experience you have in an enterprise data center, but even a quick google search brought up the following:

"It is pretty common to see UTP Cat-5, 6 or 6a cable being used for phone lines in newer construction or installations, the cost of the cable is not that different and it just makes it easier for the installer to just have to run one type of cable for both phone and data. You can even use RJ-45 wall jacks for phones because RJ-11 plugs will fit, though you can only access up to two pairs or 4 wires in the RJ-45 wall jack.

You can see this in many office buildings, and if they use RJ-45 jacks for both data and POTS phone the jacks should be marked and are usually a different color. It the business uses ISDN or VOIP then the wiring needs are different, but can be usually be supported on Cat-5, 6, 6a cable and RJ-45 wall jacks"
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:06:32 pm by Dawgz Rule »

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2021, 02:50:43 pm »
Could one of you fine gentlemen just confirm for me that either a switch or a router will support both surfing the net and local LAN style gaming and it will save me running a secondary redundant cable from bedroom to bedroom?

Just to clear up any confusion -
You can't just run a standard cable directly from one computer to another.  You would need a "crossover" cable to do this.  You need to run a cable from each computer to your router.  Your router connects both computers to the internet and each other.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2021, 11:52:11 pm »
Could one of you fine gentlemen just confirm for me that either a switch or a router will support both surfing the net and local LAN style gaming and it will save me running a secondary redundant cable from bedroom to bedroom?

Just to clear up any confusion -
You can't just run a standard cable directly from one computer to another.  You would need a "crossover" cable to do this.  You need to run a cable from each computer to your router.  Your router connects both computers to the internet and each other.

Well you could if it was a bus network.... :lol

Crossover CAT 4/5e/6 cable for PC to PC.

Switch or HUB (do they exist anymore?), and also true for Access Port or home internet router.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2021, 02:22:15 pm »
I would join in and suggest you run CAT 5e or CAT 6 to your modem location. Chances are that in 10 years you will have a new device but ethernet cables will still be the best way.

My house is small enough for wifi to work well and I still wish I had ethernet in every room.

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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2021, 03:38:44 pm »
Quote
My house is small enough for wifi to work well and I still wish I had ethernet in every room.

You can,  just use Powerline.   ;D



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Re: LAN and Ethernet cable questions
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2021, 07:30:13 pm »
Could one of you fine gentlemen just confirm for me that either a switch or a router will support both surfing the net and local LAN style gaming and it will save me running a secondary redundant cable from bedroom to bedroom?

Just to clear up any confusion -
You can't just run a standard cable directly from one computer to another.  You would need a "crossover" cable to do this.  You need to run a cable from each computer to your router.  Your router connects both computers to the internet and each other.

Nice...thank you. This is how I have wired it and went with CAT-6

Sort of bugged me that I didn’t run coax, HDMI, speaker wire...etc to each room from media area as kids might want to watch UFC in their own rooms with friends or a rented movie or run their own cable box. Turns out you can run anything you want over Ethernet cable, some solutions are just passive adapters and some need some sort of powered adapter box (for example https://www.phdsolutions.co/product/1x2-hdbaset-splitter-1-local-hdmi-out-1-cat-out-100m-poelanirrs232). But having CAT-6 run to each room means I can pretty much do whatever I want. So thanks again.