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Author Topic: 4 Player Pedestal Build  (Read 17962 times)

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Coin_Operated

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2022, 08:37:43 pm »
I'm not quite as far along as you are on my build.  Just received all my electronic equipment from Ulitmarc the other day.  I'm lucky to have access to a CNC machine and just sent my plans off today to be cut out.   What are you planning to use for the plexiglass top?  I saw you linked to a sheet from Lowe's did you end up choosing that?  Seems to be one of the last items I'm looking for.

Looks good so far.  Good luck!

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2022, 11:13:19 am »
I'm not quite as far along as you are on my build.  Just received all my electronic equipment from Ulitmarc the other day.  I'm lucky to have access to a CNC machine and just sent my plans off today to be cut out.   What are you planning to use for the plexiglass top?  I saw you linked to a sheet from Lowe's did you end up choosing that?  Seems to be one of the last items I'm looking for.

Looks good so far.  Good luck!
No CNC access for me so I'll be making on my own.

Regarding plexiglass, I asked about it but am not sure what I'll use yet.  I need to read more about it because I'm sure there are pros and cons of the different types. I'm mostly familiar with Lexan but I've never cut/drilled it before.  With the amount of holes I have to drill, I don't want to be 30 holes in and then screw something up....  Seems like a lot of guys drill a hole and then finish it with a router and pattern bit.  Until I see a better way to do it with the tools I have, that's most likely what I'll do.

My family and I were lucky enough to get Covid over the weekend so I've been on ---my bottom--- all week.  Hope I'll be back to work on it this weekend.... Good luck on your build!

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2022, 02:16:25 am »
Have spent some time putting together the CP artwork.  The plan all along has been to just get a bunch of artwork and graphics and make a collage.  Spent hours downloading a couple hundred various pics, vectors, etc.  Don't think I'm missing much.

For software, I was close to getting Illustrator since you can get it for $20 a month.  Figured I would do a month and then cancel.  I use a Mac and before purchasing, decided to see if there wasn't any free, open-source software out there.  I found Gimp and decided to try it.  Took a little bit to figure out the basics but honestly, it was fairly easy to use.  Took a looonnnnngggg time to get each file imported, trimmed, etc.  Right now, I just have a bunch of them floating in space as you can see below.  I started adding the joystick and button locations.  Not done with that yet.

This is by no means done.  Need to size things and move it all around.  Am thinking of using some marquees across the top and bottom.  Some of them are just so classic!  Appreciate any input!


Zebidee

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2022, 03:10:51 am »
CPs work well with very simple artwork, something uncomplicated without too many colours. Otherwise it is too distracting. Try to match colours between artwork on side panels/marquee and the CP. Even plain black works, or add some coloured line design like racing stripes. Then you can even paint it yourself with some rattle-cans and some well-placed paper tape.
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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2022, 04:01:33 am »
Appreciate any input!
Famous last words.   :lol

Don't think I'm missing much.
That statement implies that you are missing something.  In a certain sense, I agree.   >:D

I think some good advice about your current control panel art is that the path to improving it is via lots and lots of subtraction, not via addition.

Can you name a single classic arcade cab that had anywhere near that much artwork crammed onto the control panel?

If you want to convey multiple games without going completely overboard, consider choosing one game theme per player position, one or two game themes for the admin buttons, and maybe a Centipede/Millipede theme for the trackball.
- Choose game themes of games that you can play using the controls on the cab.  i.e. Don't choose Paperboy or Hang-On since you don't have the associated handlebar controller.
- Choose themes that work well together and balance each other.
- Marquees are great art, but not exactly ideal for this application.  Consider using artwork that looks like it slid or fell down from the monitor during gameplay and landed on the CP.

As Zebidee pointed out, simpler is better.   :cheers:


Scott

Mike A

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2022, 05:26:39 am »
---fudgesicle--- me.
That looks ---smurfing--- terrible.
I am getting ready for work and that collage just wrecked my whole day.
Artwork should have a theme and a purpose.
Please start over.

bobbyb13

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2022, 05:40:03 am »
Oh my-
Please go read the wiki before you keep going!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2022, 10:16:16 am »
Famous last words.   :lol

Yeah, this is the part where I disregard every suggestion and do it my way, even though I asked for input... right?  ;D


That statement implies that you are missing something.  In a certain sense, I agree.   >:D

I think some good advice about your current control panel art is that the path to improving it is via lots and lots of subtraction, not via addition.

Can you name a single classic arcade cab that had anywhere near that much artwork crammed onto the control panel?

My comment about missing something was more about making sure I didn't miss a character or game....

I realize a collage is frowned upon.  I realize it's not pure.  I'm OK with that.

I can't name a single classic arcade cab with that much artwork on it.  Definitely can't.  But I'm not building a classic arcade cab based on 1 game.  I did not set out to build one of those.  My original thought was to have a collage of different characters. 


If you want to convey multiple games without going completely overboard, consider choosing one game theme per player position, one or two game themes for the admin buttons, and maybe a Centipede/Millipede theme for the trackball.
- Choose game themes of games that you can play using the controls on the cab.  i.e. Don't choose Paperboy or Hang-On since you don't have the associated handlebar controller.
- Choose themes that work well together and balance each other.
- Marquees are great art, but not exactly ideal for this application.  Consider using artwork that looks like it slid or fell down from the monitor during gameplay and landed on the CP.


Agree on Paperboy and I'm leaning towards removing all of the marquees as you said.  I don't like all of the rectangles all over the place against the curves of all the characters.  I saw a couple designs where people used them and threw them on.

I think it's worth clarifying that what I posted was just a CP with a bunch of stuff on it.  Nothing is sized, positioned, or set in stone.  I wanted to get everything I downloaded on the page and go from there..... Removing the marquees will definitely reduce the clutter.  I'll probably remove some other pictures as well.  Sizes of each character need changed too.


Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2022, 10:18:49 am »
---fudgesicle--- me.
That looks ---smurfing--- terrible.
I am getting ready for work and that collage just wrecked my whole day.
Artwork should have a theme and a purpose.
Please start over.

If that ruins your day, sorry.  My theme/purpose is to have a bunch of classic game characters on it.  The marquees are most likely gone...  As I mentioned above, I'm not building a game specific cabinet.

pbj

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2022, 10:19:42 am »
Don't listen to those clowns.  Be sure and add Link, Galaxy Mario, and the dude from Dragon's Lair.  Looks incomplete without them.


Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2022, 10:34:15 am »
CPs work well with very simple artwork, something uncomplicated without too many colours. Otherwise it is too distracting. Try to match colours between artwork on side panels/marquee and the CP. Even plain black works, or add some coloured line design like racing stripes. Then you can even paint it yourself with some rattle-cans and some well-placed paper tape.

Appreciate the response.  This is the first arcade machine I've ever built so I'm learning as I go.  I fully realize some of the decision I make won't be agreed on by others.

I understand what you're saying about distracting and things looking like a cluttered mess.  What I posted was definitely a mess and I probably should of just kept it to myself instead of ruining peoples days.....  It's a work in progress.  I don't fully understand what will be distracting though (from a game play POV).  You aren't looking at the CP while playing.  Plenty of arcades are dimly lit and you can barely see the CP anyway.  If by distracting, you just mean what you see when you walk up and look at it, I hear you.





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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2022, 10:41:02 am »
---fudgesicle--- me.
That looks ---smurfing--- terrible.
I am getting ready for work and that collage just wrecked my whole day.
Artwork should have a theme and a purpose.
Please start over.

Haha...I saw the CP photo and started laughing then thought "Has Mike seen this?" LOL

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2022, 10:42:29 am »
Don't listen to those clowns.  Be sure and add Link, Galaxy Mario, and the dude from Dragon's Lair.  Looks incomplete without them.
I have Link and Dirk on there... middle left side.  Have a few different Mario's as well.  The stuff I used was what I could find high res PNG's or vectors on.  Will check on a Galaxy Mario pic.  Might not keep all of the different versions on there either.....

Gilrock

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2022, 10:49:59 am »
Don't listen to those clowns.  Be sure and add Link, Galaxy Mario, and the dude from Dragon's Lair.  Looks incomplete without them.
I have Link and Dirk on there... middle left side.  Have a few different Mario's as well.  The stuff I used was what I could find high res PNG's or vectors on.  Will check on a Galaxy Mario pic.  Might not keep all of the different versions on there either.....

Dude that was the equivalent of all of us saying "Don't jump off the cliff" and pbj says "Go ahead and jump you'll be fine"....lol

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2022, 11:07:10 am »
Dude that was the equivalent of all of us saying "Don't jump off the cliff" and pbj says "Go ahead and jump you'll be fine"....lol

Plenty of sarcasm for sure..... ;)

javeryh

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2022, 11:28:54 am »
---fudgesicle--- me.
That looks ---smurfing--- terrible.
I am getting ready for work and that collage just wrecked my whole day.
Artwork should have a theme and a purpose.
Please start over.

Haha...I saw the CP photo and started laughing then thought "Has Mike seen this?" LOL

Same here.  I doubt Mike even made it to work.

pbj

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2022, 11:36:19 am »
Sarcasm?  I don't do sarcasm.  Do what you want, man.  Lean into it.

This forum shits all over everything and that's why it's been on life support for a decade.

 :cheers:

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2022, 12:30:28 pm »
Sarcasm?  I don't do sarcasm.  Do what you want, man.  Lean into it.

This forum shits all over everything and that's why it's been on life support for a decade.

 :cheers:

My bad man, based on a few other responses and me not really knowing who's who and their history, I thought you were just being sarcastic.

I'm totally sticking with the collage theme.  In the end, I'm the only one (wife and kids too) that needs to like it...  I'm removing the marquee's and a couple other things.  I post an updated pic later and hope that no one reads it before the night shift.  ;D

bobbyb13

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2022, 01:10:32 pm »
Once upon a time, there was crap mame...

I was talking function, not aesthetics.

Turn your nose up at it if you choose, but the wiki will save you from yourself.
Nearly everyone here will advise you to NOT repeat other people's failures.

In trying to make a machine that 'could' play (or look like it plays) thousands of games (which you never will) one ends up making something which still 'does' play the few you actually will regularly- but poorly at that.

If you must spill hundreds of unrelated/incompatible icons onto the machine, save it for side art.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2022, 01:51:33 pm »
Once upon a time, there was crap mame...

I was talking function, not aesthetics.

Turn your nose up at it if you choose, but the wiki will save you from yourself.
Nearly everyone here will advise you to NOT repeat other people's failures.

In trying to make a machine that 'could' play (or look like it plays) thousands of games (which you never will) one ends up making something which still 'does' play the few you actually will regularly- but poorly at that.

If you must spill hundreds of unrelated/incompatible icons onto the machine, save it for side art.

You just said the go read the Wiki without saying what you specifically don't like.  I've read a bunch of it.  I've read builds on here. I built a mockup of the CP with all buttons, joysticks, etc.  I'm orienting the P3 and P4 sticks the "right" way.  Based on that, I have to adjust some button positions a bit.  I'm not doing the aircraft carrier design that so many people ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on.

What about the function is bad?  What failures am I repeating?  I genuinely want to know!  Here's the pic of my mockup....


I'm moving the trackball lower, moving up the P1 and P2 buttons, changing the angle on the P3 buttons a bit, moving the P4 buttons to the left a bit more.  I'm still debating on the spinner position.... I'm not doing flight joysticks, steering wheels, guns or anything fancy.  I think 4 players with a trackball and spinner is pretty reasonable.

pbj

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2022, 02:13:21 pm »
You should add a Tron joystick or a 4 way stick above the player 3 and 4 controls on the right.  Plenty of room up there and you'll be glad you have it for Discs of Tron.




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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2022, 03:51:40 pm »
Good work so far Shookie.  That's looking like a pretty deep CP.  If your aim is to play most if not all games I agree you need an analog flight stick in there and will have plenty of room.  What about gun games?  I would also look at your current position of the spinner.  Chances are you will want a place to rest your arm / wrist over time and it looks like you have buttons and a joystick in the way depending on your play style.  I revisited my layout more recently after taking a poll on that and made a few adjustments.  Think about a 4.5" resting area around each of your sticks and buttons as a general rule of thumb.


As far as art goes, you got your fair share of warnings and classic responses.  I'll try to offer some thoughts since I too am looking to incorporate lots of game art into mine (although merged into a theme).

First, the big disclaimer.  Art can be highly subjective!  If you're aiming to please the masses, you will find common approaches that work better than others.  Given you've already stated it's just for you, then you do you.  Asking for feedback suggests you would like to take other thoughts into consideration.  It doesn't mean you have to follow it though.

As far as general aesthetic feedback, I think a consideration is balance of how busy an area is, which is often driven by contrast, and the overall user experience.  The side art is designed to lure people in and quickly identify the game.  The CP should have art that compliments the control layout so it's easy for a player to understand the primary controls.  Even though traditional arcades didn't really have the mass collage / multi game representation, take a look at several designs and try to understand why one design catches your eye over another.  Then try to follow those principals and incorporate your spin on it.  For the CP, even though it's only for you, I would still play around with balance so even if you have all those characters, it blends a little better and your controls pop a bit more than the artwork.  This can be done with contrast adjustments, color washes, segmenting themes per player, etc.  There are examples of multi game art out there at the print shop sites and some are more successful than others at making it all work and not just come across like bumpers stickers on a car that's collected 20 from each state.  You ARE making a 4 player, so that suggests others will be playing.  You might not care about their aesthetic preferences, but at a minimum you should make sure the art makes their play experience easy to understand and enjoyable.

I know it's a pedestal but you might be able to incorporate a Marquee on the front of the CP.  Not sure I've ever seen anyone do that yet.
If you do, be sure to call it "Arcade" in big bold letters.  Mike A loves that too.  :duckhunt  :laugh2:

I first attempted to do most if not all of my suggestions in the renders I have at the beginning of my build thread.  It works ok, again being subjective, but I'm not happy with it yet either.  I got a lot of the same feedback you did.  I quickly realized I should probably focus more on the build itself first and then I can wrestle with the art afterwards, and even if it takes another year to be happy, that doesn't prevent the build from being completed enough to enjoy.  I can't remember how many characters I have in the current art, but it's probably around 100 or more.  I think a lot of what helps it feel a bit more cohesive is balancing out the art styles and the colors to control the contrast and general theme palette.  All the characters wrapped around the edges of my CP are a purplish hue on the black background with balanced contrast so one isn't sticking out like a soar thumb next to the others.  All are pixel art from screen shots which also helps keep their styles more consistent.  The side art is where it gets trickier because unless you want giant pixel art, you typically have different vector based art styles of characters, logos, etc.  Working those together in a cohesive way is a lot harder.

As a bit of encouragement, several months back someone posted an 80's themed cab that had pink and green neon t-molding and incorporated the classic retro sunset, Ghostbusters, the Delorian, and a bunch of other games quite successfully (IMO).  It felt cohesive, right at home in the 80's and very retro.  I'll edit this post if I can manage to find it again.  It can be done, but it's a lot harder to do that than picking a single theme for a game that someone else already mostly defined for you.  Or just pick a generic style that isn't necessarily tied to a specific game at all.

Have you thought about what you're going to call it?  That name can help your art theme too.  Anyway, if I were you I'd focus on the build first and your CP layout.  Get that all exactly where you want it and play test if possible, and then solve the art side of things.

Good luck!  :cheers:
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 04:15:12 pm by vertexguy »

Mike A

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2022, 04:11:43 pm »
It looks like an eight year old's lunch box with stickers all over it.

Why is the side art for a Gauntlet cab on there? It doesn't make any sense.

A Donkey Kong screen shot?

Come on. You can do better than this.

The other members are just being polite.

If you are really going to roll with this then have at it.

I won't comment any further.

But ---fudgesicle--- me.

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2022, 05:11:48 pm »
It looks like an eight year old's lunch box with stickers all over it.

Why is the side art for a Gauntlet cab on there? It doesn't make any sense.

A Donkey Kong screen shot?

Come on. You can do better than this.

The other members are just being polite.

If you are really going to roll with this then have at it.

I won't comment any further.

But ---fudgesicle--- me.

As I wrote when I posted the pic, all I had done at that point was get a bunch of stuff into Gimp.  Nothing was sized or located....nothing was set in stone.  I didn't post the pic and say here's the final design.

Regarding Gauntlet, it was always one of my favorite games growing up.  I downloaded some graphics and that was one of them so I threw it in there.  I thought about snipping a piece of it, and by no means was I going to use the entire thing.  Same with the Donkey Kong screen.  Same with the Centipede side art.  Same with the Mario Bros art.  I have already deleted them because they don't fit with the character theme.  I deleted all the marquees as well.  Might use them on the base or something...???

Feel free to comment or not.  I'm sure I'll ask for more help and ideas along the way. I have a sneaky suspicion you won't like the final CP.... and that's OK.  It's OK to criticize, and it's also OK for me to disregard your criticism.  No hurt feelings here.

Shookie

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2022, 05:32:10 pm »
Good work so far Shookie.  That's looking like a pretty deep CP.  If your aim is to play most if not all games I agree you need an analog flight stick in there and will have plenty of room.  What about gun games?  I would also look at your current position of the spinner.  Chances are you will want a place to rest your arm / wrist over time and it looks like you have buttons and a joystick in the way depending on your play style.  I revisited my layout more recently after taking a poll on that and made a few adjustments.  Think about a 4.5" resting area around each of your sticks and buttons as a general rule of thumb.
Was never much into flight and gun games so I didn't even consider those from the start.... for flight games, can you just use one of the regular joysticks?  Sure it won't have the same look and feel, but it works that would be find if and when those games are ever played.

Totally with you on the spinner.  I don't love the location.  I put it where it is now to keep it out of the trackball path.  For sure, I want to play Golden Tee on this machine.  So you've got all the different angles and I don't want to jam fingers into the spinner.  I'll have to go back and look at yours again to see where you've placed it.  Still up in the air for sure!


As far as general aesthetic feedback, I think a consideration is balance of how busy an area is, which is often driven by contrast, and the overall user experience.  The side art is designed to lure people in and quickly identify the game.  The CP should have art that compliments the control layout so it's easy for a player to understand the primary controls.  Even though traditional arcades didn't really have the mass collage / multi game representation, take a look at several designs and try to understand why one design catches your eye over another.  Then try to follow those principals and incorporate your spin on it.  For the CP, even though it's only for you, I would still play around with balance so even if you have all those characters, it blends a little better and your controls pop a bit more than the artwork.  This can be done with contrast adjustments, color washes, segmenting themes per player, etc.  There are examples of multi game art out there at the print shop sites and some are more successful than others at making it all work and not just come across like bumpers stickers on a car that's collected 20 from each state.  You ARE making a 4 player, so that suggests others will be playing.  You might not care about their aesthetic preferences, but at a minimum you should make sure the art makes their play experience easy to understand and enjoyable.
Appreciate what you wrote.  I definitely have to balance things out and do a ton more work.  I'm not just throwing stuff on there randomly and that's it.  I'll keep working at it.



I know it's a pedestal but you might be able to incorporate a Marquee on the front of the CP.  Not sure I've ever seen anyone do that yet.
If you do, be sure to call it "Arcade" in big bold letters.  Mike A loves that too.  :duckhunt  :laugh2:
Good idea. I assume you are just talking about a marquee "wrap" around it with a few different ones or do you just mean 1 on the front?  I guess either would work.... maybe some LED's under edge of the CP to light it up..???  I'll think about that.



I first attempted to do most if not all of my suggestions in the renders I have at the beginning of my build thread.  It works ok, again being subjective, but I'm not happy with it yet either.  I got a lot of the same feedback you did.  I quickly realized I should probably focus more on the build itself first and then I can wrestle with the art afterwards, and even if it takes another year to be happy, that doesn't prevent the build from being completed enough to enjoy.  I can't remember how many characters I have in the current art, but it's probably around 100 or more.  I think a lot of what helps it feel a bit more cohesive is balancing out the art styles and the colors to control the contrast and general theme palette.  All the characters wrapped around the edges of my CP are a purplish hue on the black background with balanced contrast so one isn't sticking out like a soar thumb next to the others.  All are pixel art from screen shots which also helps keep their styles more consistent.  The side art is where it gets trickier because unless you want giant pixel art, you typically have different vector based art styles of characters, logos, etc.  Working those together in a cohesive way is a lot harder.
My family is battling Covid right now so I'm not doing much of any physical work.  I'm OK to sit in front of the computer though so that's why I started working on it.  Have you posted final pics of your artwork?  I don't recall.



Have you thought about what you're going to call it?
Nope, haven't thought about it.  Maybe lunch box?  ;D

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2022, 05:37:07 pm »
Quote
It's OK to criticize, and it's also OK for me to disregard your criticism.  No hurt feelings here.


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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2022, 06:48:10 pm »
I want to play Golden Tee on this machine.

Is that a 3" trackball or 2-1/4"?  It looks like the smaller one but it's hard to tell since the control panel is quite large.  If you really plan to play Golden Tee, I would recommend a 3" trackball.  2-1/4" seems too small for that game but I've only ever tried a 3" ball.  I'm sure others will chime in as well.

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2022, 07:28:20 pm »
Was never much into flight and gun games so I didn't even consider those from the start.... for flight games, can you just use one of the regular joysticks?  Sure it won't have the same look and feel, but it works that would be find if and when those games are ever played.

"Regular" joysticks aren't the same thing.  The "regular" sticks you have now use microswitches.  Just picture a mini button at the bottom of the shaft being pressed when you move the stick all the way in a specific direction.  It's either on or off.  Analog sticks use potentiometers to accurately track a wide range of motion.  Many different games use those which gives you far more precise control.  Picture trying to play a racing game and trying to control your speed when all you have is a button that's either off or full throttle.  A real gas pedal is analog.  It tracks a range of motion.  If Scott chimes in I'm sure he'll provide far better detail than I can. ;)  The game list using analog sticks isn't nearly as big as microswitch 2/4/8 way games but I happen to like several of them.  I figure if you're going all out for a 4 player panel of that size that plays almost everything, if you don't know what's all out there, you might as well cover your bases so you can try them all.  Worst case you could plug the hole and remove a control you don't use.  You could also pickup a cheap usb analog flightstick for your pc just to test games too.  See if you like any that way.  There are games that aren't flight games but use analog sticks.

Totally with you on the spinner.  I don't love the location.  I put it where it is now to keep it out of the trackball path.  For sure, I want to play Golden Tee on this machine.  So you've got all the different angles and I don't want to jam fingers into the spinner.  I'll have to go back and look at yours again to see where you've placed it.  Still up in the air for sure!

I found the P2 joystick is your biggest enemy to trackball space and Golden Tee, along with anything you put directly in front of it.  My thread isn't up to date on the CP unfortunately.  Basically I just went a few more inches to the left so it sits centered above but between the P1 joystick and the left most P1 buttons in the space in between.  That gives enough room for an arm and wrist rest with the control spacing I chose.  Originally I had it sitting above the P1 buttons, thinking my arm would always be elevated when using it.  I've read a lot of threads over the years and had great advice to be mindful of not only wrist rest / arm rest space but also to think about different styles of interacting with controls.  For example, when my brother in law came over to test my cardboard CP, he interacted with the track ball in a more precise way that I hadn't considered then.  It all just translates into needing more space around them.  This is why small cramped CP's with a ton of controls would be problematic to comfortably play on.  I noticed your button spacing seems like the wider variety from the templates.  Now is the time to make sure you like that layout vs something else.  There's also no harm in customizing to fit your own hand.

Good idea. I assume you are just talking about a marquee "wrap" around it with a few different ones or do you just mean 1 on the front?  I guess either would work.... maybe some LED's under edge of the CP to light it up..???  I'll think about that.

I was just picturing a single inset marquee somewhere on the front.  Could be close to the full span of the cp, or could be a small one that's the size of the base the CP is connecting to.   Take a look at JaveryH's twin tully build thread again.  He put marquees below the CP on those and it looks great.

Have you posted final pics of your artwork?  I don't recall.

Nope, I quit working on it over a year ago to focus on the build.  If there's absolutely nothing else I can work on because of weather then I might touch it, but I'm trying to resist that trap until the build is done.

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2022, 07:40:00 pm »
Have you thought about what you're going to call it?
Nope, haven't thought about it.  Maybe lunch box?  ;D

Heh, I've already done a lunch box CP design. As you can see I went for a minimalist approach:




Now I feel compelled to cover that lunchbox with arcade characters ;)

Don't worry about Mike and pbj. They serve important roles here, speaking frankly and pointing out the elephants and gorillas in the room.

If you really want to go with arcade character-based art for your CP then go for it. However, cut out everything else, including marquees, game titles, side art, screenshots etc.... so that all you have left is pure arcade character art. That in itself makes it a theme, kind-of.

I also suggest that you remove any remaining characters that do not relate directly to an arcade game. This include the Southpark boys, Pikachu and that Darth Vader head (I know there are star wars games, but it doesn't look right). Maybe some others I'm not 100% sure about.

Many people take a similar "collage" approach for their first arcade build. Not many use it after that.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 07:41:32 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2022, 08:04:23 pm »
I want to play Golden Tee on this machine.

Is that a 3" trackball or 2-1/4"?  It looks like the smaller one but it's hard to tell since the control panel is quite large.  If you really plan to play Golden Tee, I would recommend a 3" trackball.  2-1/4" seems too small for that game but I've only ever tried a 3" ball.  I'm sure others will chime in as well.
Yep, it's a 3" from Ultimarc.

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2022, 08:24:03 pm »
"Regular" joysticks aren't the same thing.  The "regular" sticks you have now use microswitches.  Just picture a mini button at the bottom of the shaft being pressed when you move the stick all the way in a specific direction.  It's either on or off.  Analog sticks use potentiometers to accurately track a wide range of motion.  Many different games use those which gives you far more precise control.  Picture trying to play a racing game and trying to control your speed when all you have is a button that's either off or full throttle.  A real gas pedal is analog.  It tracks a range of motion.  If Scott chimes in I'm sure he'll provide far better detail than I can. ;)  The game list using analog sticks isn't nearly as big as microswitch 2/4/8 way games but I happen to like several of them.  I figure if you're going all out for a 4 player panel of that size that plays almost everything, if you don't know what's all out there, you might as well cover your bases so you can try them all.  Worst case you could plug the hole and remove a control you don't use.  You could also pickup a cheap usb analog flightstick for your pc just to test games too.  See if you like any that way.  There are games that aren't flight games but use analog sticks.
Duh, I knew that.... brain fart a couple hours ago.  I'll search for games that use it.  Still have time to add if I want.



I found the P2 joystick is your biggest enemy to trackball space and Golden Tee, along with anything you put directly in front of it.  My thread isn't up to date on the CP unfortunately.  Basically I just went a few more inches to the left so it sits centered above but between the P1 joystick and the left most P1 buttons in the space in between.  That gives enough room for an arm and wrist rest with the control spacing I chose.  Originally I had it sitting above the P1 buttons, thinking my arm would always be elevated when using it.  I've read a lot of threads over the years and had great advice to be mindful of not only wrist rest / arm rest space but also to think about different styles of interacting with controls.  For example, when my brother in law came over to test my cardboard CP, he interacted with the track ball in a more precise way that I hadn't considered then.  It all just translates into needing more space around them.  This is why small cramped CP's with a ton of controls would be problematic to comfortably play on.  I noticed your button spacing seems like the wider variety from the templates.  Now is the time to make sure you like that layout vs something else.  There's also no harm in customizing to fit your own hand.
I think I get what you're saying about the spinner location.  Basically, you can rest your forearm against to P1 joystick while using it.... right?  I used a layout from Slagcoin (appears to be down now) and I think it was called Sega1 but I may be wrong.  I think the buttons are spaced OK.  Will obviously do a final check on this though.  I've been having my 15 year old checking ergonomics with me.


I was just picturing a single inset marquee somewhere on the front.  Could be close to the full span of the cp, or could be a small one that's the size of the base the CP is connecting to.   Take a look at JaveryH's twin tully build thread again.  He put marquees below the CP on those and it looks great.
I'll give this some more thought.  Easy enough to size something for that area.  Hard part would be picking 1 to use  :)

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2022, 08:24:52 pm »
My point is to study original panels and the work of those who have gone before you here some more.
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, as others have already done what you are doing and figured out the pitfalls.
So many good examples of amazing builds on this site that it is dizzying.

On art, I read in the wiki that less is more and stick to a theme, limiting color palette.
None of what you posted showed any attention to that which is why I said it multiple times.
All instances of really nice scratch build cabinets here follow those guidelines and no matter your view presently, I imagine you will agree when it's all over.

If that control panel will be THAT big then may as well add a flight stick and dedicated 4 way.
There is room.

I personally have trackball and spinner on the right side of my panels (a la Tempest, Centipede, Missle Command, Cameltry, etc.) but up to you of course, it's your machine.

Those controls are already crowded given the size of that CP so give the people who will play it a chance at comfort and spread them out.

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2022, 08:31:39 pm »
Don't worry about Mike and pbj. They serve important roles here, speaking frankly and pointing out the elephants and gorillas in the room.

If you really want to go with arcade character-based art for your CP then go for it. However, cut out everything else, including marquees, game titles, side art, screenshots etc.... so that all you have left is pure arcade character art. That in itself makes it a theme, kind-of.

I also suggest that you remove any remaining characters that do not relate directly to an arcade game. This include the Southpark boys, Pikachu and that Darth Vader head (I know there are star wars games, but it doesn't look right). Maybe some others I'm not 100% sure about.
Thanks, doing a lot of what you said...  all the marquees, screenshots, and side art are gone now.  Even though there are South Park games, they aren't really vintage or of the same era, so I deleted it.  Agree on Pikachua as well.  I found a site with a bunch of great pics and that was one of them.

I wanted something Star Wars related because of the old game.  Found that Vader pic and loved it.... I know it's not "authentic" but I really like it.  Will think about the some more.

One of these days, maybe I'll be confident enough to post the updated one  ;D

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2022, 08:54:08 pm »
My point is to study original panels and the work of those who have gone before you here some more.
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, as others have already done what you are doing and figured out the pitfalls.
So many good examples of amazing builds on this site that it is dizzying.

On art, I read in the wiki that less is more and stick to a theme, limiting color palette.
None of what you posted showed any attention to that which is why I said it multiple times.
All instances of really nice scratch build cabinets here follow those guidelines and no matter your view presently, I imagine you will agree when it's all over.

If that control panel will be THAT big then may as well add a flight stick and dedicated 4 way.
There is room.

I personally have trackball and spinner on the right side of my panels (a la Tempest, Centipede, Missle Command, Cameltry, etc.) but up to you of course, it's your machine.

Those controls are already crowded given the size of that CP so give the people who will play it a chance at comfort and spread them out.

I've looked at a bunch of panels.  If you look at what I put in my first post, versus where I'm at now, I think you'll see the progress, but by no means is it perfect.

On art, let me get further with it.  I'm 100% doing the collage and I've removed a bunch of stuff already.  I hear you that there might be too many colors and too much "stuff" on there....  This design or theme or whatever you want to call it is what my boys and I have talked about and agreed on.  I'm OK with that.

I'm thinking about the flight stick now because of you and vertex.  I don't need a 4-way because I have servo sticks for P1 and P2.  No need for a dedicated one..... right?

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2022, 09:15:31 pm »
There are games that aren't flight games but use analog sticks.
I'll search for games that use it.
There's a good list of analog games in the wiki.
- An analog stick is also good for games that use a 49-way stick. (see list above the list of analog games)

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Analog_Joysticks
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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2022, 09:51:07 pm »
Don't worry about Mike and pbj. They serve important roles here, speaking frankly and pointing out the elephants and gorillas in the room.

Buzz off, weirdo.

I encourage the builder to lean into his vision and go for it.  Do not be discouraged by the nay sayers.  Ignore the walls of text. 

 :cheers:


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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2022, 10:14:50 pm »
Don't worry about Mike and pbj. They serve important roles here, speaking frankly and pointing out the elephants and gorillas in the room.

Buzz off, weirdo.

I encourage the builder to lean into his vision and go for it.  Do not be discouraged by the nay sayers.  Ignore the walls of text. 

 :cheers:

That bold part would be an appropriate directive for most of us here
 :)
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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2022, 10:56:02 pm »
Don't worry about Mike and pbj. They serve important roles here, speaking frankly and pointing out the elephants and gorillas in the room.

Buzz off, weirdo.

:lol Weirdo is my username on certain other forums, and also name of one of my favourite long-running D&D characters (female gnome illusionist/thief - yeah I know, weird, she even had a beard), so I embrace that compliment thank you pbj  8)

Quote
I encourage the builder to lean into his vision and go for it.  Do not be discouraged by the nay sayers.  Ignore the walls of text. 

 :cheers:

Of course you do, and we love you all the more for it.

That bold part would be an appropriate directive for most of us here
 :)

Very true! We can all embrace our inner weirdness :D Though its OK to be not weird too, just saying. :P
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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2022, 01:05:27 pm »
There's a good list of analog games in the wiki.
- An analog stick is also good for games that use a 49-way stick. (see list above the list of analog games)

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Analog_Joysticks
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Appreciate the links, thanks!

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Re: 4 Player Pedestal Build
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2022, 10:35:14 am »
Mike this one's for you.   ;D

I did some digging and found the cab I was talking about that I think did a great job making a retro theme collage from unrelated games and making it all feel very classic 80's.  It was posted longer ago than I thought.





http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141879.0.html

You can see how he recreated the artwork to fit in a cohesive style.  I really like the look in the end.  It CAN be done!  :)



« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 01:31:31 pm by vertexguy »