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Author Topic: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings  (Read 26286 times)

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KenToad

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Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« on: November 23, 2020, 03:30:53 pm »
I’m pretty sure that a spinner was my first experience of perfect analog controls. I definitely was impressed by controlling the paddle in Atari’s Breakout in the early 80’s long before I ever saw a computer mouse. And some of my favorite games of all time have spinners as a core control.

Because I can’t find an exhaustive list, I’ve created a list of spinner games and attempted to give the best, most accurate sensitivity settings for MAME, based upon my testing. For more information about how sensitivity is calculated and for some technical information, visit the BYOAC wiki page at: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Spinner_Turn_Count . For more information about spinners and dials both original and aftermarket: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinners_and_Dials .

The format I’m using will be [original spinner resolution] and (MAME sensitivity).  If there’s a question mark, it means that it’s my best guess. So, [288?] (24) would mean that information points to the original resolution being 288 and a MAME setting of around 24 seems to be correct. (24?) alone indicates that the resolution is a mystery (could be a free spinning potentiometer?), but that a setting of 24 works in game. If there is no question mark, then I’m using information from the spinner turn count Wiki linked above. Sometimes, the Wiki information seems wrong and I’ve noted what settings seemed to work better in the description.

All settings are using the resolution of 1200 utilized by both GroovyGameGear’s TurboTwist 2 and Ultimarc’s Spintrak. Other spinners, such as the GRS, seem to have a lower maximum resolution (GRS might be 1024, but can be set lower?). If you have a different type of spinner and you know the resolution, you could easily tweak the formula by replacing 1200 with your resolution to get your MAME settings.

For now, this list will not include 360 degree steering wheel games. I may edit this post or create another one with settings for spinner-based steering wheel games in the future, once I finish testing the 7 inch mini-racer wheel with all the games. *Edit* Steering wheel games added in reply #3 of this thread.* Games like Super Sprint and Ivan Stewart used (16-ish?) inch steering wheels, so the settings likely won’t match up exactly with gameplay, even when they are known.

I also have excluded games that used a 12 position rotary joystick, such as Ikari Warriors. Those were included as analog controls in MAME, but they aren’t analog. To assign button presses to these rotational features, check this wiki page for specific directions: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#MAME_Settings_for_Mechanical_Rotary_Joysticks. Optical rotary joystick games like Caliber 50 are included. The Wiki omits Fighting Soccer, which has an optical rotary joystick and incorrectly lists (the wiki doesn't incorrectly list Gondomania ... I must have seen it incorrectly listed on some other spinner list) Gondomania as having an optical rotary joystick when, according to it’s manual, it uses a 12 position switch based system like Ikari Warriors. Some other games, like the Puzzle Bobble series, also have no functional spinner controls in MAME.

As far as sensitivity settings, generally, for block breakers, I’m using the Breakout/Arkanoid standard of 120-130 degrees twist to move the paddle from one end of the screen to the other. For spinning turret-based games, I’ve tried to match the turret 1:1 with the spinner movement. Keep in mind that spinners on the original cabinets varied a lot in size and functionality and that these settings are just a potential starting point or guideline. I often tweak the sensitivity 1 or 2 degrees higher in Breakout style games because the original knobs tended to be half an inch or so bigger in diameter than the knobs I got from GGG.

If you notice any glaring errors or omissions or want to share your opinions, please post below.

* Regarding MAME settings: Analog controls should be mapped to Trackball/Dial/Paddle X and Trackball/Dial/Paddle Y. Trackball/Dial/Paddle dec and Trackball/Dial/Paddle inc are for digital controls mapped to analog functions. Digital Speed and Autocenter Speed adjust how digital inputs affect analog controls. For spinner and trackball controlled games, only Sensitivity affects performance.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:45:01 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 03:31:32 pm »
Single Spinner:
720 Degrees – 100 * [144] / 1200 = (12) Playing this game well requires a ton of spinning the custom spinner-mounted joystick in precise whole or half-circle motions, which is really difficult without the joystick and auto-calibrating disc that the original had attached to the spinner. For those of us with a standard arcade spinner, this game is still fun in small doses.
Arkanoid [486] (40.5) – The original often-imitated mega hit that itself was just a variant on Atari’s original Breakout game. Arkanoid added so much that became standard to the formula of later block breakers and it’s still an amazing game to play today, although be prepared for unfair difficulty spikes. Adding to the brutal difficulty is the fact that the game resets the stage each time you continue, Forcing you to beat each level in one credit. You can use save states to alleviate some of the pain, or even change the dip switches to easy mode and give yourself 5 lives, but it still hurts. For an easier version of Arkanoid, the NES version is good and plays well using the Mesen emulator in Retroarch with the Arkanoid paddle in port 2. For whatever reason, I have to use the left mouse button to start and the letter X on my control panel to fire and there is no sensitivity adjustment, but it is very playable.
Arkanoid - Revenge of Doh [972] (81) – The sequel brings more power ups, more special blocks, as well as a power-down making your paddle smaller. The spinner had four gears instead of two, so you need to double the sensitivity to get the game to play like the first Arkanoid. Of interest is that the US version of the game has a different and more interesting version of the first level, but the real change between the US version and the rest of the world is that the blocks you destroy stay destroyed when you continue, which makes the US version my preferred version of the game. For another fun way to play Revenge of Doh with your arcade spinner, there was a Japanese exclusive port for the Famicom that also works with the Mesen emulator in Retroarch. You have to enable the Arkanoid paddle in port 5 (Famicom accessory port) and again there is no sensitivity adjustment and I use the left mouse button to start and the letter X on my control panel to fire. It’s an interesting port because there are some gameplay changes and it even drops into a fight with Doh, the boss of the first game, before you see the title screen and get to start the game properly. If you’re interested in even more single player Arkanoid, the SNES exclusive follow-up is called Arkanoid: Doh It Again and it plays well with the SNES9x emulator and Turbo Twist 2 spinner through Retroarch (SNES mouse on port 1), although you’ll need access to at least the left mouse button, as there’s no option to remap it and no way to adjust sensitivity, which is playable, but slightly higher than it should be. This game has a two player co-op and versus mode, but there seems to be no way to enable multi-mouse support in any SNES emulator, so you’ll have to have a controller for the second player, if you want to play that way. Potentially, there is a fix utilizing rawinput, so let me know if you figure it out. Personally, I’d want to use the Y-axis of the same mouse input because that’s my second spinner, but I bet that it’s impossible at the moment. It’s nice to know that the SNES supported multiple mice.
Avalanche [5k pot] (50?) Kaboom! started as an attempt to port this game. Avalanche is an okay game, but lacks the charm of Kaboom!’s smiling bomber.
Aztarac [288] (24) - An ambitious vector game where you use a joystick to drive a tank while controlling the tank’s swivel turret with your spinner, somewhat like the tank stage in Tron. You fight off wave after wave of enemies and sweep the area with your radar. It’s fun, but repetitive.
Bomb Bee (50?) – Breakout crossed with pinball. It looks and sounds pretty decent for 1979.
Boxing Bugs (11?) This is a fun game that is sort of like Star Castle in reverse. You have a weird two sided turret that extends a boxing glove out of one end and shoots out of the other. The turret spins pretty much 1 to 1 with a Turbo Twist 2 in MAME with a sensitivity of 11.
Cameltry [486] (40.5) – A fun and unique labyrinth game where you rotate the entire maze instead of moving the ball directly.
Cerberus [72?] (6) – You control the rotation of a small ship with the spinner, along with buttons for thrust and fire similar to Blasteroids. In the game, you have to return fuel pods to your space station and the game is unique in that you don’t have a set number of lives. You can die as many times as you want as long as you get at least one pod back to the ship. Graphics are okay, but it gets repetitive quickly.
Circus / Acrobat TV [5k pot?] (50) – The original game where you have two guys on a see saw and have to send them up to pop balloons. It’s fun enough for a few minutes.
Clowns [5k pot] (50) – Essentially, the same game as Circus with a few small changes in graphics and sounds.
Cosmic Chasm [288?] (24) – Once again, you have the spinner rotating a ship with asteroids style thrust, shoot, and shield, but sweet vector graphics and a cool mini-map make this an excellent lesser-known title.
Crater Raider [64] (5.3333) – Rescue “survivors” on a barren landscape, the original controls have a trigger stick that only moves up and down to control your tank’s forward and reverse movement. All steering is controlled by the spinner. You have a shot that kills enemies in one hit and a shield button. It’s a decently fun game.
Cutie Q (50?) – Similar to Bomb Bee, a mix of breakout and pinball, but Bomb Bee seems superior.
D-Day (50?) – You use the spinner to rotate a gun to shoot at a gallery of military targets. I remember playing games like this on my old Apple IIC. Gameplay is pretty lackluster.
Dark Planet [64] (5.3333) – A bizarre game with the spinner again controlling the ship’s rotation and utilizing three buttons for fire, thrust, and laser (which looks like a red cloud?). You’re supposed to be stopping the enemy from building bases, but it’s difficult to understand what’s happening because of the rudimentary graphics.
Discs of Tron [128] (10.66667) Another classic, it had an up/down spinner, but you can certainly map those buttons elsewhere on your panel. I find this game fun in small doses. It’s pretty funny that it offers you extensive written directions before you play the game.
Exterminator (24?) – A terrible game where you play a digitized disembodied hand that shoots “juice” all over the house to kill a variety of pests.
Gigas [486?] (40.5) – Gigas is a pretty lackluster copy of Arkanoid/Breakout. It’s fun enough and not too difficult if you’re desperate for more block breaking action with powerups.
Gigas Mark II [486?] (40.5) – Looks almost exactly the same as Gigas with different block layouts.
Goindol [486?] (40.5) – Another Arkanoid/Breakout copy, but it redeems itself by being very quirky. There is a caveman wandering around the block patterns and driving a tank across a floating line of balloons between stages. There are bonus shooting stages, as well as some pinball elements in here, similar to Bomb Bee and Cutie Q.
Ixion (15?) – An interesting game where you play a tank with a rotating turret on a grid where you must collect the letters of IXION without getting blasted by many enemies. A sensitivity of 15 seems to be almost 1:1 with the turret, but a little higher sensitivity seems to play better with the frantic gameplay.
Kick [12] (1) (2?) – Originally, it was a trackball game that only used the one axis. Gameplay is simple and fun with the cute addition of Pac-Man and the ghosts. I find a sensitivity of 1 to be too sluggish and 3 causes some reversing of inputs when you spin too forcefully, so I set it to a sensitivity of 2 and that seems to be a happy medium.
Kosmik Kroozr (18?) – Discs of Tron style cabinet and control layout, the cartoony design of the sprites was done by the same guy who did Rampage and it looks good, but the gameplay is incredibly thin. A sensitivity setting of 18 puts the spinner roughly 1:1 with the turret aiming, but since you can only fire in 8 directions anyway, it may play better to set the sensitivity higher.
Mad Planets [72] (6)(actually 3, according to testing) – According to the BYOAC wiki, the spinner is the same as the Tempest spinner. (*Edit* Maybe not, see the Wiz Warz entry below.) A very strange game with Tron style controls where you control a nimble ship that resembles an Imperial star destroyer from Star Wars being attacked by swarms of planets. The gameplay is fast and fun and the soundtrack has a catchy beat that is unfortunately drowned out by the other gameplay noises once you start shooting. *Edit* I should mention that the resolution indicated by the wiki doesn't make your ship spin 1:1 with the spinner, which is odd. Your ship spins roughly 3 times per rotation. A sensitivity of 2 actually achieves roughly 1:1 spinning, but the higher sensitivity of 6 plays better. It would be nice if someone who has access to the original cabinet and hardware could verify how much the ship spins with one turn of the dial. *EDIT* I had the chance to play this game at Galloping Ghost arcade in Chicago. A sensitivity of 3 seems to be correct, as a full turn of the spinner rotates the ship more than a full turn, maybe 380 degrees.
Major Havoc [288?] (24) (50) – This one used a roller, kind of like a skateboard wheel turned on its side. I set sensitivity to 29 50. It seems to play well, especially the game of Breakout in before you have each space battle, but I only played this once or twice on an original cabinet and I don’t remember too well what the controls felt like.
Moonwar (25?) – Controls don’t feel great here no matter what the setting. However, the game plays fine at sensitivity 25. The game is asteroids style shoot, thrust, shield, with the spinner controlling ship rotation. It has a fourth button that flips your ship like the reverse button in Defender, which is odd.
Omega Race [64] (5.3333) – This is one of the very best of the shoot, thrust, spin spaceship games.
Peggle (50?) – A unique puzzle game where you spin a pegboard to try to get a falling character to hit and break the pegs. It originally used a trackball and it doesn’t play particularly well with my spinner.
Plump Pop (81?) – A good update to Circus/Clowns, but you control a movable trampoline rather than a see saw, which makes the game easier. There are bosses, music and bonus stages, so the game has a decent variety.
Prebillian (40.5?) – Futuristic billiards with annoying music. You use the spinner to aim the cue ball. It’s alright.
Quester (40.5?) – Very basic Arkanoid imitation. The blocks make different melodious sounds when they break and there is a funny moment at the beginning when your ship, which is a cylinder on its side, takes off from a hangar full of fighter jets.
Razzmatazz (40.5?) – Carnival style gallery shooter, you control a rifle that sweeps side to side at the bottom of the screen like a paddle. It doesn’t have much to offer.
Riddle of Pythagoras (100?) – Another Arkanoid imitation, this one with an Indiana Jones vibe. It’s not bad. It might be the only spinner game that plays well at 100% sensitivity?
Star Trek [64] (5.3333) – I’m not sure what’s going on with the Wiki resolution of 64 for this game, but the ship rotates 1:1 for me at a sensitivity setting of 72. This one is fun, although most of the game is on the mini map, so it feels tiny.
Straight Flush (40.5?) – Breakout with the gimmick that there are cards that you change by hitting them with the ball.
Super Breakout [120-130 degrees to go across the screen] (40) - It’s difficult to go back to a game this basic when you have Arkanoid style games.
Super Free Kick (40.5?) – Breakout with soccer players instead of blocks and a goal with a goalie at the top of the screen.
Tac/Scan [64] (5.3333) [256?] (21.333?) - This is a fun classic, but the ships turn nearly 1:1 at sensitivity 24. Maybe the 64 tooth encoder was quadrupled for a true resolution of 256? Or maybe the tooth count was actually 72?
Teeter Torture (10?) – I get backspin whenever I try increasing the sensitivity above 10, but it plays well enough there. It’s an interesting gallery shooter where the floor is a scale that will explode if it tips too far to one side or the other. Enemies fall down and hang on it if you don’t shoot them.
Tempest [72] (6) – Tempest is an amazing game. I remember it in the arcade back in the 80’s. If you spun the spinner on that machine too hard, it would vibrate to a stop.
Tempest Tubes [72] (6) – This is one of those well-done hacks that just adds variety to the original.
Tournament Arkanoid [486] (40.5) – A US exclusive variant that plays identically to the original game. Block patterns are unique and round 2 has a block pattern that resembles the American flag. This one is supposedly more difficult than the already brutally difficult original, but I haven’t played enough to comment.
Tron [128] (10.66667) – It’ll take you five minutes to play through the four minigames, but the execution is stunning and the game is a classic, especially for those of us who experienced this mind-blowing cabinet back in the day. You’ll need a joystick and a fire button as well as a spinner.
Victory (18?) – Colorful graphics and lots of voice samples highlight this otherwise bland thrust and fire space shooter.
Wiz Warz AKA Arena (Mad Planets spinner?) (2) – I have no idea how this one is supposed to play, but 50 6 seems okay. The game is a mix of Robotron and Tempest and it is really fun. You use a joystick in your right hand to aim your shots like in Robotron and the spinner in your left hand to spin around the outside of the arena like in Tempest. *Edit* I found a Facebook post by Doc from Galloping Ghost Arcade talking about the original prototype cabinet of Wiz Warz that he found. He said that it used a Mad Planets style spinner mounted on the left side of the control panel and a top fire joystick mounted on the right side. The top fire button would be for zapping the walls. It's odd that Doc didn't mention Tempest spinner when he was talking about trying to find a Mad Planets spinner, because the BYOAC Wiki claims that Tempest and Mad Planets used the same spinner and Doc probably could have found a Tempest spinner a lot more easily, which makes me think that maybe the two spinners are not the same. *2nd Edit* I found video footage of the Arena cabinet being played and it looks like it is less sensitive than I initially thought, so perhaps it is the same resolution as a Tempest spinner? *EDIT* I had the chance to play the game at Galloping Ghost arcade in Chicago. The correct sensitivity seems to be 2, as one full turn of the spinner moves the letter selection after the game just past the letter B.
Zektor [64] (5.3333) (11?) - Similar to Omega Race with some cool voice samples. Plays better at sensitivity 11 or 12.
Zwackery (16?) - Another game by the guy who designed Rampage, so it has that cartoony look, as well as unusual gameplay, with platforming and the spinner controlling 360 degree aiming of your wizard’s sword and shield. You have to aim upward to do spells, it feels very experimental in design and is definitely worth a try.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 09:18:54 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 03:32:04 pm »
Dual Spinners:
Arkanoid Returns [486] (40.5) seems more like [144?] (12) – This is a great game, 2 player co-op Arkanoid. I’m not sure how the emulation ended up at this sensitivity, though. I would have expected that it would match either the first or the second game, but a sensitivity setting of 12 makes it match the feel of the other games.
Blasteroids [288] (24) - I set my spinners to 29. This is Atari’s somewhat fun 2 player co-op update of Asteroids utilizing the hilariously-named “Housequake” sound system and graphics digitized by Industrial Light and Magic. The first boss yells at you, reminiscent of Sinistar.
Block Block [486] (40.5) - Only the Japanese version has spinner support, but this is a decently fun co-op block breaker. The difficulty at least through the first part of the game seems to be quite a bit lower than Arkanoid.
Caliber 50 [24] (2)(8?) - I have this one set to sensitivity 8. The game used an optical rotary joystick with a 24 slot encoder wheel and apparently no multiplier, but it really plays like crap in MAME at 2% sensitivity. I played this one in my local arcade way back when it was new, but my memories of the rotation are really hazy, although I remember thinking that it felt weird compared to Ikari Warriors, since there was no clicking in the rotation.
Eco Fighters [288?] (24) - I only added this one after I saw Haze’s YouTube video demonstrating spinner functionality in this game that was added to MAME 0.169 in 2015. As Haze said in his video description: "it can be seen as a spiritual successor to Forgotten Worlds." In graphics and gameplay, Eco Fighters is as good as or better than Forgotten Worlds. Give this one a try if you have a spinner, joystick and a reachable button. It’s amazing.
Fighting Soccer [24?] (2) (25?) – I can’t find much information about this game, but it supports four players and seems to be another with an optical spinner joystick similar to Caliber 50. It’s probably similar hardware to Touchdown Fever 1 or 2 because it looks almost like a re-skin of that game, right down to the arrow spinning around the character holding the ball. Also, just like Touchdown Fever 1 and 2, it supports 4 spinners and works fine at the MAME default sensitivity of 25. There is a joystick hack of this game that is much easier to control, but obviously lacks the precision of the spinners for aiming your shots and passes.
Forgotten Worlds [1792?] (150) - An absolute classic, the first game on Capcom’s CPS hardware. I was lucky to be able to play it in my local arcade back in the day. This is one of the big reasons that I installed spinners near the player 1 and player 2 joysticks on my control panel and it’s one of the reasons why I installed a microswitch foot pedal, since operating the fire button with my foot eliminates the need for a push button spinner. The spinner itself seems to have four gears like Arkanoid, although, IIRC, it used a bigger and heavier spinner knob that spun slightly more freely. I’m not sure why the spinner sensitivity is so high, but setting it at 150 makes the spinning pretty much 1:1 with the shooting, which feels right to me.
Ghox [486] (40.5) - This Toaplan classic is another 2-player co-op block breaker, but it mixes in good music and absurd gameplay, including fairies you can collect and a “bomb” that you can trigger with a button to split the ball into dozens of balls. The original spinner used an up/down button mechanism similar to Discs of Tron, but it’s just for moving the paddle slightly up or down in the playfield. However, there seems to be little reason for moving up from the bottom of the screen. The buttons can be mapped to the joystick just in case.
Off the Wall (Atari) [256] (21.3333) - 3 spinners – Basically Pong crossed with Arkanoid, I prefer this game to Arkanoid in some ways. It supports 3 players and the ball reacts more realistically, bending and curving if you hit it while moving the paddle. The graphics and music are cute and feel like a product of the times.
Off the Wall (Sente) [288?] (24) (50?) – This game is a really fun classic. It’s playable at the default sensitivity of 100, but feels better to me at 50. Apparently, the original used the same spinner as Aztarac, but a sensitivity of 24 feels a little sluggish to me.
Pop ‘n Bounce (22?) – This is an interesting and decently fun head-to-head block breaker on the Neo Geo that can be controlled by dual spinners if you change the input method in the dip switches. Although it may have commonly used an Arkanoid spinner, a sensitivity of 22 feels right to me, maybe because you only ever utilize half the screen, even when playing single player.
Puchi Carat [144?] (12) – It plays like a mix of Breakout and Puzzle Bobble and it has a two player head to head mode. A good game, but not too exciting as it can be difficult to pinpoint your shots like you can in Puzzle Bobble.
Puzz Loop [972] (81) – Select dial controls in the service menu to enable analog controls. Of all the games on this list, this one made me want dual spinners the most. Even though the presentation feels a bit budget, the Puzz Loop concept is so great that it was copied by the PC game Zuma.
Puzz Loop 2 [972] (81) – Select dial controls in the service menu to enable analog controls. The sequel is a great game that feels a bit more polished, although I miss the Caribbean-esque funky music from the original and the guy sitting in the middle shooting the balls from between his legs is totally bizarre.
Squash (squaitsa.zip) (6?) – This seems to be a poorly designed clone of Sente’s Off the Wall. Mainly, the physics just don't play well at all. There’s very little interest or enjoyment playing the computer. It might be fun with two human players, but I don’t see why anyone would choose this over the original Off the Wall.
Touchdown Fever [24] (2) (25?) - 4 Spinners, I never played this quirky game or its sequel in the arcade, so I’m not sure what sensitivity is supposed to feel right. Apparently, the game used similar optical spinner joysticks as Caliber 50. However, the MAME default sensitivity of 25 works fine on my Turbo Twist 2 spinners. The most fun part of the game is the run button that you tap to run faster, similar to Track and Field. You can zoom down the field if you tap the run button really fast and it's pretty hilarious. Otherwise, the game just isn't fun because you can't see enough of the field to make a decent pass play.
Touchdown Fever II [24] (2) (25?) – See above for Touchdown Fever. These games do support up to four spinners, but the gameplay isn’t that great. For me, the cheesy voice samples made testing the games sort of enjoyable.
Twin Squash [486] (40.5) – A lackluster block breaker where you face off against either a human or a computer in a race to break all the blocks before they advance down to the bottom of your screen.
Two Tigers [64] (5.3333) (11?) - A Tron conversion that uses dual spinners to control fighter planes trying to shoot down planes and sink ships. Just like Tron, the sensitivity seems to be better when it’s set to 10 or 11, even though the BYOAC wiki has it listed at a resolution of 64.
VS Block Breaker [486?] (40.5) – Despite the generic title, this incredibly cute game has a delightfully absurd premise of the balls actually being balled-up hamsters kept in the air by a character running across a floor and holding the paddle. The game is intentionally slow-paced, as it has a unique timer of a large sprite squeezing your window of play, forcing you to keep the pace as quick as possible. You have a little jump move to help keep your hamster at full speed, which you’ll need to do in order to beat the timer. The game also features a slew of bizarre voice samples. It never gets old seeing your character’s shock when the hamster ball splats on the floor and walks away.
VS Hot Smash [486?] (40.5) – Basically virtual air hockey, the game has an odd mechanic where your paddle shoots forward when you spin quickly, allowing you to hit a quick shot at your opponents goal. It takes some getting used to, but it works well once you figure it out. When you play single player, you are always at the bottom of the screen. When you play versus another human, the other player has to be at the top of the screen, which is slightly less intuitive. Unfortunately, the game has very little going for it beyond the wonky paddle slapping forward gimmick. Graphics are bland. There are some different boards with different configurations of obstacles, but they aren’t all that interesting. You’ll probably be ready to stop playing this one after hearing the annoying scoring jingle a few times.
Warlords [120-130 degrees travel end to end of castle] (50) - The cocktail version of this cabinet supported up to four players. You can easily add a trackball or mice for the extra players, but this one plays best with spinners. It’s a classic with a lot of chaos and fun. *EDIT* I had the chance to test this game at Galloping Ghost arcade in Chicago. It seemed to be almost exactly a half turn of the dial to move end to end of the castle, so a lower sensitivity may be more correct.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 09:20:59 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 03:55:04 pm »
Sensitivity settings on the wheel games will be even more subjective and somewhat dependent upon the diameter of your controls. I have a Turbo Twist 2 spinner with a 7 inch mini-racer wheel attachment from Groovy Game Gear, so the settings here generally reflect that. If you have a smaller wheel or just a spinner knob, higher sensitivity may work better.

The format is [original resolution] (MAME sensitivity). I’ve labeled guesses with question marks. It’s also worth repeating that the guesses are the best settings for me based upon available information and my own testing.

As always, if you notice any glaring errors or omissions or want to share your opinions, please post below.

FYI, if the game utilizes a shifter, MAME often has a helpful onscreen shift position indicator that you can enable by pressing Tab and going into the Video Options menu.

*Edit* I should add that I'm not including games like Road Blasters. It had a free spinning potused an optical encoder rather than a pot, but the steering yoke was physically limited to 270 degrees of movement and really doesn't play well with free spinning controls, IMO. The following games are playable with 360 degree spinners that do not need physical restriction or centering springs.

Single Player Steering Wheel Spinner Games:

1000 Miglia: Great 1000 Miles Rally [Free Spinning Pot] (50?) – Change the dip switch to 360 wheel, this series of isometric racers is really fun with or without a wheel attached.
APB – All Points Bulletin [72] (6) – It’s fun and funny to play a cop terrorizing the streets while you try to arrest “litterbugs” and other law breakers.
Buggy Boy / Speed Buggy (10?) – Widescreen format like TX-1, this one is fun, with jumps, obstacles, and points to collect all over the road.
Buggy Challenge (10?) – Driving over a seemingly endless desert, the gimmick here is that you follow the sun, rather than a road. Unfortunately, gameplay is lacking.
Change Lanes (10?) – In the manual, it seems to use a 36 tooth encoder disk, so a lower sensitivity may be arcade accurate, but it plays well at a sensitivity of 10. Drive down a straight road dodging other cars and obstacles, similar to Turbo, but not as good. You can even drive in the water. It has a shifter, but it’s only to go forward and reverse, although I’m not sure why you would ever go in reverse.
Drift Out (50?) – Change dip switch to paddle in order to use a spinner. This game doesn’t play too well at any setting. The whole background rotates in a slightly disorienting way, but the game lacks excitement. It is amusing to see how closely they modeled the cars and names after the real versions, using slight spelling changes like “Masda” and “Toyoda,” probably to avoid paying licensing fees.
Fire Truck (10?) - I'm not sure how this one is supposed to steer, but a sensitivity of 10 plays okay.
Grand Champion (25?) – Very similar to Turbo, but not nearly as good.
Mille Miglia 2: Great 1000 Miles Rally (50?) – Change the dip switch to 360 wheel, it’s another good entry in this series. The upcoming turn directions don’t pop up on screen anymore, so you have to pay attention to the mini-map in the top right corner.
Monte Carlo [36] (3) – Very early top down racer, it’s decent.
Night Driver (50?) – I haven’t played this one with original controls, but it controls decently well at a sensitivity of 50.
Pole Position [102.667] (8.555583) (10 with 7” mini-racer wheel) - “Prepare to qualify.” Just a classic game.
Pole Position II [102.667] (8.555583) (10 with 7” mini-racer wheel) - Not as iconic as the original, I play the Atari version, as the original Namco version has some weird sounds.
Stocker (50?) – An unlicensed Smoky and the Bandit game that plays something like Sprint, this one is relaxing and fun as you try to go across the country as fast as possible without running out of gas or getting ticketed by the cops, although the music is pretty terrible. One cool detail I didn’t notice at first was the mini-map of the State you’re zooming through in the top right corner of the screen.
Super Bug (10?) – An early top down racer from 1977. Enable the color overlay in the MAME video options to make it look a bit less bland.
Super Speed Race Junior [64] (5.3333) (7 with 7” mini-racer wheel) – The core gameplay is just bad, forcing you to zigzag through uninteresting traffic patterns on a completely straight road while awful music plays.
Top Secret (topsecex.zip) (25?) – Exidy blends Spy Hunter and Sprint in an over the top homage to James Bond driving sequences. The graphics and sound are not great, even for the times, but the game features a ridiculous array of weapons and power-ups (8 buttons!) and is still fun to play today.
Turbo (2 and a half turns to go across the screen) (10?) (18?) – I remember playing this fun game back in the arcade. It is very fast and needs the bigger wheel for quick, precise movements. Sensitivity 10 seems to match the 2 and a half turns recommended by the BYOAC wiki page, but, since I have a smaller steering wheel, a sensitivity of 18 plays better. Make Sure you enable the bezel and control panel artwork in the MAME video options for this game. You get a tachometer and digital score readout just like the original cabinet. It’s pretty amazing.
TX-1 (10?) – Pole Position with a widescreen format, this one is good and MAME emulates the original 3 screen layout just fine. Gameplay might even be better than Pole Position, but the sense of speed is diminished somewhat.
World Rally (50?) – Change to optical wheel in the dip switches in order to use a spinner. It’s very similar to the Great 1000 Miles Rally series. This one used a 360 degree spinning wheel and actually was marketed as a conversion for Pole Position, as indicated in the manual. The sequel, World Rally 2: Twin Racing, did not use 360 spinning wheels, but rather 270 degree pot based steering wheels and does not play that well using my spinners, at least in MAME .201.

Multiplayer Steering Wheel Spinner Games:

American Speedway (9?) – 2 players, this game is brutally difficult and it taunts you with “Good Job! Buy your way to the top” when you spend money to continue. Otherwise it’s just a forgettable racer compared to the later Sprint games.
Bad Lands (7?) – 2 Players, Mad Max inspired post-apocalyptic sprint, you have a basic machine gun upgradeable to a missile launcher mounted on the top of your vehicle and some other cool upgrades on these otherwise Sprint-looking courses.
Car Polo (??) – 4 player car soccer, very early precursor to Rocket League, controls don’t seem to work for me. Apparently, player controls were fixed in MAME version 0.211.
Championship Sprint [72] (6) (7?) – 2 players, it’s Super Sprint, but for only 2 players, along with track variations, and it’s just as fun.
Danny Sullivan’s Indy Heat (30?) – 3 players, it feels like a spiritual sequel to the Super Off-Road games and is really fun.
Demolition Derby (50?) – 4 players, this game isn’t too fun when you take it out of the county fair arcade tent.
Drag Race (10?) - 2 players, I'm not sure how this one is supposed to control, but a sensitivity of 10 works fine for me to keep the car from crashing.
Grudge Match (15?) – 3 players, I have no idea how this is supposed to play. Unfortunately, it’s not that good, either.
Hot Rod (20?) – 3 players, Sega’s take on the Sprint formula, the interesting part of this game was that the screen scrolled, so you travel from one place to another more like a rally game, rather than doing laps around a racetrack. It’s also slightly slower-paced, but manages to still be fun.
Ivan Stewart’s Super Off-Road [155-165] (30) – 3 players, for me, this is the pinnacle of Sprint style games. The off-roading, jumps, constant upgrading, and the nitro boosts add a ton of fun. It’s pretty hilarious that the game allows players to completely upgrade their vehicles right from the start by adding more credits. Leland was really ahead of the curve regarding pay to win microtransactions.
Ivan Stewart’s Super Off-Road Track-Pak [155-165] (30) – 3 players, basically the same game with different courses and the ability to play as a buggy instead of a truck. I slightly prefer the original’s tracks, but both Super Off-Road games are amazingly fun.
Redline Racer (25?) – 2 players, a lackluster Sprint imitation, it does have a name entry system to apparently save your progress and some funny voice samples, but the gameplay feels pretty hollow.
Rough Racer (10?) – 2 players, bizarre and fun game from Sega adding unique twists to the Sprint/Off-Road formula, like a steam roller on the track or breakable barriers. It has a duck announcer and a track intro that reminds me of Duck Game, if any BYOAC’ers have played that.
Super Dead Heat (??) - 4 players, this is an early and rare 4 screen Sprint-esque racer added to MAME .215 in 2019. At the moment, I haven't been able to test it, as I'm still using MAME .201.
Super Sprint [72] (6) – 3 players, plays well at sensitivity 7 with a 7 inch wheel, I love this game, but I get annoyed by the AI that always gives you a race or two by going incredibly slowly around the track after you insert a coin. The game is a classic, but a lot more fun with human opponents.
Wheels Runner (10?) – 2 players, a bad Sprint clone.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 10:58:50 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2020, 10:33:33 pm »
Thanks for the list, i've been playing some of the spinner games off an on lately.

So its good to have an updated reference, along with descriptions.

later
-1

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 11:34:01 pm »
This is just awesome.
Thank you immensely for all the work on this.
 :notworthy:
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 01:21:48 am »
Nice List Ken.

Thanks for this.   :applaud:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:31:15 am by Vocalitus »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2020, 10:46:36 am »
Thanks for the kind words.  :cheers:

I found some more information on Wiz Warz, so I updated that entry and Mad Planets, and made some other minor formatting edits.

Here's Doc's video on Arena/Wiz Warz:

Also linked in the description of that video is a RedBull story about Arcades and some details showing how they recreated the game cabinet. Here is the link. The first Arena / Wiz Warz segment begins at minute 6:55: https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1MSW6GUR91W11/arcade-renaissance?playlist=AP-1MSW6FYF11W11:episode
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:44:00 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 03:57:14 pm »
This is perfect timing as I finished my dual spinner CP at the weekend. The main machine is not running quite yet but this list will be most welcome, thank you.

Please can I ask (as I cannot remember how a real arcade spinner feels).... if I give the spinner a real good spin, and let it run, roughly for how long should it spin?

I used heavy flywheels that allow mine to spin for over 20 seconds (the bearings are very free running and offer virtually no drag).

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 04:10:31 pm »
This is perfect timing as I finished my dual spinner CP at the weekend. The main machine is not running quite yet but this list will be most welcome, thank you.

Please can I ask (as I cannot remember how a real arcade spinner feels).... if I give the spinner a real good spin, and let it run, roughly for how long should it spin?

I used heavy flywheels that allow mine to spin for over 20 seconds (the bearings are very free running and offer virtually no drag).

Your spinners spin way longer than any arcade spinner that I'm aware of. If you don't count steering wheel games, most of the spinner games either used a limited or no inertia spinner, meaning that they didn't spin freely much, if at all. Tempest is probably the biggest exception. Most others relied upon fine control, meaning the spinner only spins when you want it to. This is a roundabout way of reassuring you that your spinner setup will be great. I used a free spinning spinner setup for years before investing in Turbo Twist 2 spinners with the accu-twist system (basically just a piece of felt that adds friction when you tighten the knob down tighter to the base). Have fun and make sure you post a thread in the project forum if you made your own setup.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 06:31:35 pm »
(basically just a piece of felt that adds friction when you tighten the knob down tighter to the base)

That's what I was thinking I might need. Thank you.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 05:12:19 pm »
I updated the post with steering wheel spinner games.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 05:15:19 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2020, 05:23:20 pm »
I recently got the GRS spinner which I use for racing games. I've concluded that the resolution is 750.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2020, 07:51:13 pm »
I recently got the GRS spinner which I use for racing games. I've concluded that the resolution is 750.

Thanks for sharing! Can you reduce the resolution via the hardware? I read somewhere that it was possible.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2020, 08:05:52 pm »
I recently got the GRS spinner which I use for racing games. I've concluded that the resolution is 750.

Thanks for sharing! Can you reduce the resolution via the hardware? I read somewhere that it was possible.

Not that I know of. Maybe there was a dipswitch or something I missed. I don't want to take apart my setup now but on the video for it I don't see anything on the little board at the bottom that looks like it's adjustable.  Where did you hear that it might be 1024? I did a test on a website where the Turbo Twist 2 check out at around 1200 and this seemed to get about 750 on the same test. Plus I did a comparison on some games like Arkanoid and that number feels the same as the TT2 does on 1200. I wish I knew for sure though.

I'm curious what settings you recommend on Super Dead Heat. That's a relatively recent addition to fixed screen racer games in MAME. It's a pretty cool game using 4 screens but I can't get it to feel great no matter how I set it. It feels like there is a deadzone or something. Maybe I'm just too used to Super Sprint. A lot of the rip off games just don't have great control. Wheels Runner has an input issue which I've reported on MameTesters so I don't consider that game currently playable at all.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2020, 10:22:04 am »
I recently got the GRS spinner which I use for racing games. I've concluded that the resolution is 750.

Thanks for sharing! Can you reduce the resolution via the hardware? I read somewhere that it was possible.

Not that I know of. Maybe there was a dipswitch or something I missed. I don't want to take apart my setup now but on the video for it I don't see anything on the little board at the bottom that looks like it's adjustable.  Where did you hear that it might be 1024? I did a test on a website where the Turbo Twist 2 check out at around 1200 and this seemed to get about 750 on the same test. Plus I did a comparison on some games like Arkanoid and that number feels the same as the TT2 does on 1200. I wish I knew for sure though.

I'm curious what settings you recommend on Super Dead Heat. That's a relatively recent addition to fixed screen racer games in MAME. It's a pretty cool game using 4 screens but I can't get it to feel great no matter how I set it. It feels like there is a deadzone or something. Maybe I'm just too used to Super Sprint. A lot of the rip off games just don't have great control. Wheels Runner has an input issue which I've reported on MameTesters so I don't consider that game currently playable at all.

This spinner was advertised as "Industrial quality GRS spinner V2" in the Amazon description. I'm attaching photos of the manual, showing the adjustable resolutions, that were shared by someone answering a question on the product page. I guess that you have the button hole version of the GRS spinner? It's odd that they're both called GRS and are so different in function and design.

I haven't tried Super Dead Heat, hadn't even heard of it until you mentioned it. I'm a relatively recent subscriber to your channel and Haze's channel on YouTube. Looks like the game was added in MAME .215. At the moment, I'm using MAME .201, though I plan to upgrade probably sometime in 2021.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 10:51:03 am by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2020, 02:21:24 pm »
the dipswitches on Glens spinner are super hard to set.

I'm still not sure what mine were set to.

later
-1

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2020, 04:32:31 pm »
Yeah, I have the button hole version which has a small PCB on the bottom.  Looks like its a completely different product.

Super Dead Heat is amazing on paper.  It was a 4 player cocktail game with a screen for each player that combined into one big track. Before each race, players can change the layout of the section on their screen so you can get a whole bunch of variations of each track.  The issue for me is that the control doesn't feel great.

Rough Racer is one that most people don't know about but I think is worth mentioning with Super Sprint/Badlands and Super Off-Road.  There is a control issue in the recent versions of MAME but it works great on older versions. I'll submit a report on it after I do some more research on the issue.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2020, 04:42:21 pm »
Yeah, Rough Racer was a genuine surprise, very cool game, and it works well in MAME .201. Here are my top ten spinner and steering wheel spinner games:

My Top 10 Spinner Games:

Puzz Loop 1 and 2 – I slightly prefer the first one.
Cameltry – A uniquely fun experience.
Arkanoid Revenge of Doh – My favorite Arkanoid.
Forgotten Worlds – An incredible game that I replay often.
Eco Fighters – A new favorite, amazing to finally play this with proper spinner controls.
Tempest / Tempest Tubes – Still the best free spinning spinner game.
Wiz Warz / Arena – A great game, too bad it never had a wide release.
Ghox – Toaplan does breakout and it’s magnificently weird.
Off the Wall (Atari) – The only ball and paddle game with curveballs.
Tac/Scan – Another mind blowing vector game.

My Top 10 Steering Wheel Spinner Games:

Ivan Stewart’s Super Off-Road / Track Pak – The best overhead racer.
Super Sprint / Championship Sprint – The pinnacle of the Sprint series.
Danny Sullivan’s Indy Heat – An excellent mix of Sprint and Super Off-Road.
Pole Position – Super difficult, fast, and fun.
Top Secret (Exidy) – Ridiculous, over the top vehicle combat.
APB – All Points Bulletin – More Atari charm.
1000 Miglia: Great 1000 Miles Rally – The best of the isometric rally games.
Rough Racer – Humorous presentation and fun gameplay.
Bad Lands – The weapons are a nice addition to Sprint.
Stocker – Despite mediocre graphics and bad music, it’s surprisingly enjoyable.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:44:44 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2020, 04:56:11 pm »
Yeah, I have the button hole version which has a small PCB on the bottom.  Looks like its a completely different product.

Super Dead Heat is amazing on paper.  It was a 4 player cocktail game with a screen for each player that combined into one big track. Before each race, players can change the layout of the section on their screen so you can get a whole bunch of variations of each track.  The issue for me is that the control doesn't feel great.

Rough Racer is one that most people don't know about but I think is worth mentioning with Super Sprint/Badlands and Super Off-Road.  There is a control issue in the recent versions of MAME but it works great on older versions. I'll submit a report on it after I do some more research on the issue.

I have the same spinner and agree that the spinner does not have that natural feel, but there is no way to add additional weight.  That said it plays great with Outrun and most CoinOPS roms on the OG Xbox.  I have to try with Outrun 2006.

Thanks again Ken.  You made my day with the extra info on the driving games.   :applaud:

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2020, 04:57:24 pm »
the dipswitches on Glens spinner are super hard to set.

I'm still not sure what mine were set to.

later
-1

Are you able to change the sensitivity through software or do you have to change the dipswitches on the spinner when you need a different sensitivity?

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2020, 05:15:06 pm »
Yeah, I have the button hole version which has a small PCB on the bottom.  Looks like its a completely different product.

Super Dead Heat is amazing on paper.  It was a 4 player cocktail game with a screen for each player that combined into one big track. Before each race, players can change the layout of the section on their screen so you can get a whole bunch of variations of each track.  The issue for me is that the control doesn't feel great.

Rough Racer is one that most people don't know about but I think is worth mentioning with Super Sprint/Badlands and Super Off-Road.  There is a control issue in the recent versions of MAME but it works great on older versions. I'll submit a report on it after I do some more research on the issue.

I have the same spinner and agree that the spinner does not have that natural feel, but there is no way to add additional weight.  That said it plays great with Outrun and most CoinOPS roms on the OG Xbox.  I have to try with Outrun 2006.

Thanks again Ken.  You made my day with the extra info on the driving games.   :applaud:

You hooked your spinner up to your Xbox? That's a pretty cool idea. I've never tried hooking up my spinners to any of my consoles.

Also, you're welcome. I'm glad that it might help someone.  :cheers:

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2020, 06:21:32 pm »
I finished my tests on Rough Racer and submitted the report. The game plays fine on 0.189 and earlier but has what I am describing as a deadzone since then. The difference in control is very noticeable to me.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2020, 10:10:04 am »
I finished my tests on Rough Racer and submitted the report. The game plays fine on 0.189 and earlier but has what I am describing as a deadzone since then. The difference in control is very noticeable to me.

The game plays fine on MAME .201 for me, no deadzone that I can perceive.

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2020, 09:01:49 pm »
Forgive me if I missed it somehow, but there is 2 settings in Analog controls for Tempest
Digital Speed
&
Sensitivity
I used 6 on both, but I still get back spin with TT and the controls feels sluggish.

Warlords has:

Digital Speed
Paddle Autocenter Speed
Paddle Sensitivity

How are your setting supposed to be applied?

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2020, 09:23:18 am »
Forgive me if I missed it somehow, but there is 2 settings in Analog controls for Tempest
Digital Speed
&
Sensitivity
I used 6 on both, but I still get back spin with TT and the controls feels sluggish.

Warlords has:

Digital Speed
Paddle Autocenter Speed
Paddle Sensitivity

How are your setting supposed to be applied?

Digital Speed and Autocenter Speed control how digital controls mapped to analog functions operate. Those settings shouldn't affect your spinner at all.

I haven't heard of getting back spin with the Turbo Twist 2. How do you have your controls mapped? You should only have your spinner mapped to Dial Analog or Paddle Analog, not Analog Inc or Dec, which again are for digital controls mapped to analog functions.

Thanks for asking here on the thread. I should add a little note about this stuff in the first post.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 09:27:07 am by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2020, 11:43:16 am »
the dipswitches on Glens spinner are super hard to set.

I'm still not sure what mine were set to.

later
-1

Are you able to change the sensitivity through software or do you have to change the dipswitches on the spinner when you need a different sensitivity?

Yes, but i'm not sure what effect its really having. Since I'm not really sure what
the hardware settings are.

All i can do is change things until there seems to be a difference, which is not very accurate.

later
-1

KenToad

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2020, 12:15:31 pm »
the dipswitches on Glens spinner are super hard to set.

I'm still not sure what mine were set to.

later
-1

Are you able to change the sensitivity through software or do you have to change the dipswitches on the spinner when you need a different sensitivity?

Yes, but i'm not sure what effect its really having. Since I'm not really sure what
the hardware settings are.

All i can do is change things until there seems to be a difference, which is not very accurate.

later
-1

The dip switch settings and resolutions are listed right there in that table in the instruction manual pictures that I posted above, assuming that's the spinner you have. It doesn't look like there is any perfect setting for Tempest, though, unfortunately.

javeryh

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2020, 12:17:28 pm »
This is INCREDIBLE information.  Thank you so much for compiling this.  I just drilled the hole in my CP for my very first spinner and I'm really looking forward to trying a lot of these games.

 :notworthy:

KenToad

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2020, 02:05:22 pm »
This is INCREDIBLE information.  Thank you so much for compiling this.  I just drilled the hole in my CP for my very first spinner and I'm really looking forward to trying a lot of these games.

 :notworthy:

That's great to hear! Have fun with your spinner.  :cheers:

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2020, 04:35:29 pm »
the dipswitches on Glens spinner are super hard to set.

I'm still not sure what mine were set to.

later
-1

Are you able to change the sensitivity through software or do you have to change the dipswitches on the spinner when you need a different sensitivity?

Yes, but i'm not sure what effect its really having. Since I'm not really sure what
the hardware settings are.

All i can do is change things until there seems to be a difference, which is not very accurate.

later
-1

The dip switch settings and resolutions are listed right there in that table in the instruction manual pictures that I posted above, assuming that's the spinner you have. It doesn't look like there is any perfect setting for Tempest, though, unfortunately.

Well, the funny thing is, the original spinner i had on the arcade 1up was fine for tempest,
it was the 3 other games that were messed up with the emulator settings being wrong.

glens spinner, had an issue, where it only reads the spin direction in one way. i'm having an electronics
friend take a look, so they can figure out a way to make it read properly in both directions if possible.

if not, we'll just chalk it up to a loss, get an LDVS adapter, i'll hook up a pc to it, and be done with it.

=============
secondly my style of play with tempest is not to spin much, in fact you can get through the blue levels,
and the reds just sitting in one spot, and if you have good timing on the firing, you don't have to move much at all.

this carries over into the yellow levels, and further if you're good enough.

later
-1

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2020, 05:18:35 pm »
Spinners are not at all difficult to build.  I slapped one together from scraps and a few not hard to find specialty parts (shaft, optical board, etc.) a while back.  Took a few iterations to get the knob right (larger and heavier is better), but it holds up quite well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161827.0.html


KenToad

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2020, 05:51:30 pm »
Spinners are not at all difficult to build.  I slapped one together from scraps and a few not hard to find specialty parts (shaft, optical board, etc.) a while back.  Took a few iterations to get the knob right (larger and heavier is better), but it holds up quite well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161827.0.html

Nice work on that spinner! I made a couple of spinners years ago, but yours looks better.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 02:22:29 pm by KenToad »

KenToad

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2020, 02:21:49 pm »
Spinner games I need to add to the list:

Rip Cord [Free spinning pot]
Subs - 2 wheels and 2 screens. You're not supposed to be able to see your opponent's screen.
Speed Freak
Konami GT
Super Speed Race
Wheel of Fortune

Games on BYOAC 360 degree steering list that are 270 degree. http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinners_and_Dials#360.C2.B0_steering_wheel_.28optical.29_games

Chase HQ
Cruis’n USA
Final Lap 2
Over Drive
Road Blasters
Special Criminal Investigation

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2020, 05:14:19 pm »
Cruis’n USA
Final Lap 2
Correct.  These games used a potentiometer for steering.

Road Blasters
This is a unique controller that doesn't fully match either category, but is a closer fit with 360 degree wheels.

It does have a physically limited range of rotation, but unlike other "270 degree" wheels, it uses an optical encoder for steering (see page 27 of the manual here) instead of a potentiometer.

This game does not work properly when using a potentiometer control like an analog joystick (i.e. 270 degree wheel), but it works just fine with an optical control like a spinner/mouse (i.e. 360 degree wheel) -- maybe I'm missing something in the setup.   :dunno

Chase HQ
This game used an optical wheel (see page 23 of the manual here), but it appears to play OK with either analog or optical controls.

Over Drive
Looks like it used a potentiometer for steering.

As of MAME 0.220 it's still red-flagged as "not working" and the graphics are total garbage.  Not sure if you want to include it on your list.  :puke



Scott

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2020, 06:20:12 pm »
Cruis’n USA
Final Lap 2
Correct.  These games used a potentiometer for steering.

Road Blasters
This is a unique controller that doesn't fully match either category, but is a closer fit with 360 degree wheels.

It does have a physically limited range of rotation, but unlike other "270 degree" wheels, it uses an optical encoder for steering (see page 27 of the manual here) instead of a potentiometer.

This game does not work properly when using a potentiometer control like an analog joystick (i.e. 270 degree wheel), but it works just fine with an optical control like a spinner/mouse (i.e. 360 degree wheel) -- maybe I'm missing something in the setup.   :dunno

Chase HQ
This game used an optical wheel (see page 23 of the manual here), but it appears to play OK with either analog or optical controls.

Over Drive
Looks like it used a potentiometer for steering.

As of MAME 0.220 it's still red-flagged as "not working" and the graphics are total garbage.  Not sure if you want to include it on your list.  :puke



Scott

Thanks for the reply, Scott. My point was that none of the listed games are 360 wheels because they are limited to around 270 degrees in their movements and have centering springs. Road Blasters, in particular, may technically be a spinner, but it plays like crap without the ability to center the wheel automatically, not to mention the resistance from the springs making precise movement in the turns easier.

Chase HQ may have used an optical wheel, but again it plays like crap without the limit of 270-ish degrees and the centering springs.

I won't be including any of those 270 degree games in my spinner steering wheel list because they aren't designed to play with a 360 degree wheel, so they don't really work with a free spinning device.  I was just pointing out that they don't fit in the 360 degree section on that specific page.

A lot of the old spinner games used free spinning pots, instead of optical spinners, and MAME seems to handle them just fine. Just regarding playability, I thought the physical restriction was more important than the specific type of analog device???

DarthMarino

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2020, 07:54:46 pm »
I like how Konami GT feels with a setting of 15 on my Turbo Twist 2 and 25 on my GRS spinner. That would make my suggested "original" turn count to be 180.

PL1

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2020, 10:05:55 pm »
*Edit* I should add that I'm not including games like Road Blasters. It had a free spinning pot,
Sorry, Ken, but Road Blasters used an optical encoder wheel (i.e. same as a 360 degree wheel/spinner/trackball), not a "free spinning pot" for steering.

The only game that I can think of that used a free spinning pot is Omega Race.
- It used a spinner assembly containing a free spinning pot and an encoder that converted the analog voltage from the wiper to 8-bit 6-bit gray code.

You can see the Road Blasters optical encoder wheel on pages 27 and 45 of the manual. (Encoder Disc P/N 044024-01)
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/R/Road%20BlastersReduced.pdf

Picture of the Encoder Disc.


On pages 21 and 22 of the schematics, you can see the optical board.
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/R/Road%20Blasters%20Schematic%20Package.pdf

My point was that none of the listed games are 360 wheels because they are limited to around 270 degrees in their movements and have centering springs.
Just regarding playability, I thought the physical restriction was more important than the specific type of analog device???
Pretty sure that this is the basic reasoning for sorting games into the wiki lists for 360 and 270 degree wheels:

- 360 degree wheels use optical circuits that output two data lines that the optical encoder translates into relative position changes when you turn the wheel. (i.e. turn the optical encoder wheel clockwise from quadrature phase 1 to phase 3, the optical encoder sends a command to move two steps right)



- 270 degree wheels use potentiometers that output a voltage that the analog encoder translates into absolute position information. (i.e. When the pot outputs 4.5v, the wiper is positioned 90% of the way from the ground end of the resistive element to the 5v end of the resistive element and a 10-bit A/D encoder will report the position as "1110011001" binary = "921" decimal -- 90% of the way from 0 - 1023.)

Physical restriction is one consideration that affects playability, but a potentially larger consideration is how the game code handles inputs.

Sometimes MAME does a good job translating a different control type in a way that works well with the game code, but sometimes it doesn't.
- Using a trackball instead of an analog flight yoke with Star Wars seems to be OK.
- Using a 270 wheel instead of a 360 wheel with Pole Position just won't work right.

Road Blasters, in particular, may technically be a spinner, but it plays like crap without the ability to center the wheel automatically, not to mention the resistance from the springs making precise movement in the turns easier.
I was just pointing out that they don't fit in the 360 degree section on that specific page.
. . . and I'm just pointing out that Road Blasters doesn't appear to play properly using an analog (270 wheel/analog joystick/analog flight yoke potentiometer-style) control, but it does appear to play properly using an optical (360 wheel/mouse/spinner/trackball-style) control.
- As I mentioned earlier, there might be settings that make potentiometer controls work well with this game (please share if you know), but the defaults cause it to spin out of control with just a slight nudge.   :banghead:

If a game plays better with one type of control than another, shouldn't the game be included on the list for the better controller?   :D


Scott
EDIT: Omega Race used 6-bit gray code, not 8-bit.   :embarassed:
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 01:56:09 am by PL1 »

KenToad

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2020, 11:12:31 pm »
Avalanche, Clowns, and Warlords are more examples of games that used free spinning pots. There were others that I found as I read manuals for researching this project. It didn't seem relevant to record at the time, as they tended to control fine with my spinners.

I edited my statement on Road Blasters to clarify that it used an optical encoder wheel. Thanks for that correction.

I'll give Road Blasters another try. It seemed to play fine with my analog joysticks last I checked. *Edit* It was fixed in MAME: "0.222: Fixed Road Blasters steering wheel does not auto center. The RoadBlasters steering wheel is very much like the Star Wars yoke, without the vertical (Y) axis [Curseur, Tafoid]. Replaced Dial controller with Stick."

Yet another reason for me to upgrade my MAME to the latest.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 11:42:32 pm by KenToad »

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Re: Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2020, 11:13:33 pm »
I like how Konami GT feels with a setting of 15 on my Turbo Twist 2 and 25 on my GRS spinner. That would make my suggested "original" turn count to be 180.

Thanks! I'm getting inspired to finally update MAME so I can give all these newly fixed games a spin.