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Author Topic: Jennifer has issues  (Read 3002 times)

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jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2020, 06:12:01 pm »
A pictorial view (or walking video!) of your workspace and tool collection would be pretty fun I think.

I look up to (envy!) all who own good welding gear and can use it well.
I have tried that and it diddnt go so well, I haven't made a whole lot of friends around here if you can imagine that, mostly just talked to myself...If you are trying to build a workstation that is a horse of a different color however.  The most overlooked tools on a workbench (Imo) is your voltmeter, a good one is capable of things most people simply do not understand, Using it to it full potential puts you in a really good place as far as trouble shooting goes...And the oscilloscope, to fully truly understand one would almost eliminate the need for a volt meter at all, short of convince...A 25MHZ analog scope are almost given away on E/pay usually around 50.00...A good upgrade for your workbench after you figger that out would be a 100mhz 4 channel (again analog, Imo) you won't need much more for older arcade machines...Digital scopes are way of the common world, and do have upgrades over analog, but there is also lag time to consider, and secretly I have always been skeptical, over cost, value, and usefulness.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 08:01:54 pm by jennifer »

yotsuya

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2020, 07:43:22 pm »
A pictorial view (or walking video!) of your workspace and tool collection would be pretty fun I think.

I look up to (envy!) all who own good welding gear and can use it well.
I would be fun, and quite helpful to everyone involved I would think, Years ago Jenn downsized considerably and sold all my commercial tooling and plating tanks, and ever since I have had a serious space problem and pretty much set up to do a job anymore, thats not fun to watch, since it takes considerable time...However I do have some really curious things that have little to no support on the internet, (vectorscopes, and rejuvenators, oscilloscopes, and now this Fluke project come mind) that really should be shared from a how to standpoint...I will work on that
I was given a nice oscilloscope for free recently- Id love to learn how to use it.


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jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2020, 08:11:00 pm »
A pictorial view (or walking video!) of your workspace and tool collection would be pretty fun I think.

I look up to (envy!) all who own good welding gear and can use it well.
I would be fun, and quite helpful to everyone involved I would think, Years ago Jenn downsized considerably and sold all my commercial tooling and plating tanks, and ever since I have had a serious space problem and pretty much set up to do a job anymore, thats not fun to watch, since it takes considerable time...However I do have some really curious things that have little to no support on the internet, (vectorscopes, and rejuvenators, oscilloscopes, and now this Fluke project come mind) that really should be shared from a how to standpoint...I will work on that
I was given a nice oscilloscope for free recently- Id love to learn how to use it.


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Dave over on EEEV blog is your man, He will, tear them down and explain them inside out...You will love that thing, once you get going with it, basicly it is XY, time/volts...And the probes usually x100 to get it down to safe input to scope, (yes add to math, but it is not that hard)...I was deathly afraid of mine at first, diddnt want to blow it up, but come to find out they are cheap as dirt, since few actually understand them anymore.(The analog ones anyway, digital latch are a different story) And for checking random Nos electronics, and input signals (quality), and working on boards... INVALUABLE.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 08:29:14 pm by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2020, 01:00:20 pm »
A pictorial view (or walking video!) of your workspace and tool collection would be pretty fun I think.

I look up to (envy!) all who own good welding gear and can use it well.
I would be fun, and quite helpful to everyone involved I would think, Years ago Jenn downsized considerably and sold all my commercial tooling and plating tanks, and ever since I have had a serious space problem and pretty much set up to do a job anymore, thats not fun to watch, since it takes considerable time...However I do have some really curious things that have little to no support on the internet, (vectorscopes, and rejuvenators, oscilloscopes, and now this Fluke project come mind) that really should be shared from a how to standpoint...I will work on that
I was given a nice oscilloscope for free recently- Id love to learn how to use it.


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Dave over on EEEV blog is your man, He will, tear them down and explain them inside out...You will love that thing, once you get going with it, basicly it is XY, time/volts...And the probes usually x100 to get it down to safe input to scope, (yes add to math, but it is not that hard)...I was deathly afraid of mine at first, diddnt want to blow it up, but come to find out they are cheap as dirt, since few actually understand them anymore.(The analog ones anyway, digital latch are a different story) And for checking random Nos electronics, and input signals (quality), and working on boards... INVALUABLE.
I really learned how to use my probe this summer when I was fixing a Crazy Kong board I screwed up. It was the first time I used one where I felt like I actually knew what I was doing.


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jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2020, 02:06:48 pm »
I have noticed most people get good with that probe, and never move on to the scope, never really understood that, in comparison you can see the signal, and random triggers, But I am not here to sell you on the obvious...It is scary (it was for me anyway) buttons knobs oh my, but really is not so bad, I dumped out my junk can, made a 555 timer circuit on the breadboard and the rest is history, The biggest trouble was understanding the probes, well in hindsight 1.1 and x100 are the ones I use on the bench, Problem 2 was actually finding the signal on the screen, it is a
math thing and got to dial it in to what you are looking at...and #3 earth ground potential higher voltages could vaporize the probe in your hand, (Dave has a good vid on the subject) but that scared me I will not lie...You will like that thing, this much I do know😉

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2020, 06:34:33 pm »
man, i wish i could afford the 1000 plus buckazoids a modern scope costs... i bought old AF techtronix 454 scope from the 1960's. got it at the government surplus just to have one. 150mhz with no snapshot memory or anything isn't great... but it's better than being blind.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2020, 01:37:58 am »
I really don't think we are missing much with those digital scopes, although that auto scan thing might be nice, But secretly I have always been skeptical since digital in theory anyway would have a refresh rating as opposed to liner, one would think...Most of my stuff is vintage Leader, and my go to scope is no exception only 100mhz but good enough for old boards over here on this side of the tracks... I learned on a 25mhz Phillips, (curious machine, still use it) but it actually is portable with the batteries (if you want) and since it can run on batteries it actually has a floating ground which is kind of rare on scopes...Both of them were calibrated to a 10mhz rubidium frequency standard (from a cell phone tower).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 11:55:14 am by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2020, 03:46:39 pm »
and since it can run on batteries it actually has a floating ground which is kind of rare on scopes...

Yrs ago I was a TV repairman. Most TVs back then had a chassis that sat at half mains potential. If using a mains powered scope it was vital to either remove the earth in the scope's power plug or use an isolation TX. Either that, or let the magic smoke out when you stuck the ground lead onto the chassis!

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2020, 11:33:26 pm »
You are braver than I, That sounds all "horrible bosses" jobs, on faulty high voltage equipment non the less, Like I said earlier, that potential difference had me losing sleep for awhile, so I only generally use the scope for low voltage TTL stuff,  although on working with tubes or someting yes, a firm believer in using an Iso...However I really don't want to be scaring anyone away from at least trying one, especially Yots,  because it is really is one of the tools needed for fault finding with any level of credibility and success.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 11:49:16 pm by jennifer »

Osirus23

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2020, 12:41:12 pm »
Whoever turned that Pacman upright into a "Beastie Feastie" needs to have their face acquainted with some concrete.

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2020, 08:59:55 am »
I know right, seems a little crazy, Thats the way I got it spose it was about the money back in the day not saving old cabs...I am going to put it back to a Pac-Man, nothing fancy, some yellow paint and decals (possibly stencils)...the beast board and marquee probably just get sold as parts.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 09:05:39 am by jennifer »

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2020, 06:33:14 pm »
From a restoration standpoint I would normally have around 2k into that cab, (with the Happ flat-screen, and micro switch controller), that happens to be more than the market dictates however, and will wind up as trade bait, on other games, cars, or boats (easier to sell)...I could knock it apart and clone it as multiple, but really don't like doing that since it is an original cab with a serial # and build tag...I have done many of these builds, so many in fact, this one will only cost me around 400.00 to finish, since I already got the parts and art just laying around from other jobs...New this machine cost around 3k (back in the 80s) and judging from the look of this one was a good investment back in the day. Adjusting for inflation I would guess 6k today was about the same money.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2020, 09:07:12 pm »
We eagerly await your restoration pics

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2020, 02:00:25 pm »
The day to day of working on a dozen machines at a time is so random it would be boring to watch, A problem board for example can take an incredible amount of time to not only troubleshoot but work around fixes with obsolete parts and crossovers....  I tried a build thread with that Getaway (ya getting back to that one) but with so many machines it is hard to document and at best Poor Jenn would just be forever taking pics and never getting any work done. I will do some done pics however of some done ones out of this batch as this progresses...I have been selling machines and went from 200 back down to a hundred or so again as an attempt to upgrade the workbench.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2020, 06:54:27 pm »
If you restore the Pacman and sell it hit me up first - just keep the CRT in it though.

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2020, 12:11:25 pm »
That 9010a Fluke project has become bittersweet, I finally got through the manuals, and started in on sourcing parts for the pod builds...Well, those chips (74LSxxx) are quite obsolete, and comparing equivalents, this may wind up a full blown bench project if I aint careful.🙄

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2020, 02:58:20 am »
I have decided not to pursue the logistics of that tester here in this thread, For those of you that were potentially looking into getting one aparently Klove (dont quote me on that, I haven't been over there to see it) has a project board on converting the Fluke over to a USB, and running complete test script on certain games, and probably more with time, it may be worth checking out if you have one...Jenn, well not so much, it is to just be used more as the self tests on my bench, (rom,ram, bus, repeating signal loop)...Ugly spendy progect however, Just be careful in that respect and do the research first.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 03:01:19 am by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2020, 02:52:52 am »
I use some assortment of these things every day of my life on homes, cars, cabinets and countless other stuff and still can't tell you everything just this crap can do
 :lol

Can't wait to see the mess I can make when I try to fire up the old HP oscilloscope I ran across last year
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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2020, 09:00:29 am »
Fluke does make nice equipment, that 87 there on your bench for example would be almost considered the industry gold standard (IMO), and is quite capable as a handheld, and extremely durable, Jenn broke the screen on her last one and had to replace hers, and gladly wrote that check, since like you say use it all the time...The 9010a is an animal from a different mother I think and so far has been ugly across the board in terms of cost, finding parts, and even the theory of operation...Here is an overview if you are curious 

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2020, 11:38:03 pm »
i can vouch for the mark 5, best meter i ever used.

in fact, i can vouch for any of the 87 series. I have an 87, an 87III (my work pigs) and an 87V (home shop)

the only thing i don't like about the 5 is they switched the current measurement default from DC to AC so now you have to press the YELLOW button to switch to DC amps all the time, where the 87 and the 87III are DC by default and you have to press the BLUE button to switch to AC current measurement.

as someone who uses all these meters daily (and 99% of the time on DC), i sometimes forget to switch the current on the 87v when i use it at home and find myself puzzled at wiered current reading figuring something is wrong....oh nope it's just on AC.  :angry:

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2020, 02:08:41 am »
Thats kinda funny, I never really thought about AC as default but now that you mention it that would be a curious problem if you did primarily DC...I like using it so Jenn is always checking, and like pushing the buttons, I never thought I would tell you guys this secret, but late in the nights I also like my Voltomist Senior, it has a giant analog needle on it and seems so back in the day, it hes been calibrated but compared to a digital Fluke it is more of a hit and guess for precise readings...I do generally prefer benchtop equipment and will most likely upgrade it someday to a modern-day digital, if I get a good deal on one.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2020, 11:56:51 am »
apparently they changed it because at the time of development for the updated meter in the series...industrial companies where primarily buying them and mainly measure AC amp loads so they decided to cater to them and make it the default. it's just something to look out for if you happen to use the 87 series a lot.

it's caught me a couple times.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2020, 03:11:06 am »
I bought mine back when I used to work on cars for $$ and barely had a clue about it's function back then (yeesh, that would be 20 years ago?!)

Not that I have progressed much at this point either really-

If I had a nickel for every time I scrolled through the range choices until I actually found what gave me a reading that made sense...
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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2020, 05:08:45 am »
Well don't feel bad,  I would guess few people would have a full understanding of all the functions, and probibally just use it for checking voltages if they even get that far, and even fewer an understanding of ohms law...Myself, I struggle on that point since electrical math is based on Pi (d/2pi) well, without going all into it, that is my breaking point and Jenns brain just shuts off. :-\

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2020, 09:50:26 am »
The basics of Ohm's Law are easy if you remember the Eagle, the Indian, and the Rabbit.

  The Eagle -- "E" -- is electromotive force, measured in Volts.

  The Indian -- "I" -- is current flow, measured in Amps.

  The Rabbit -- "R" -- is resistance, measured in Ohms.
-----------
                Eagle

    Indian              Rabbit
-----------
The Eagle looks down and sees the Indian and the Rabbit side-by-side. ==>  E=I*R

The Indian looks up and sees the Eagle over the Rabbit. ==> I=E/R

The Rabbit looks up and sees the Eagle over the Indian. ==> R=E/I
-----------
If you know two of the variables, you can easily solve for the third.   :cheers:
-----------
Bonus pic for visual learners:



Scott

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2020, 10:06:31 am »
Thats a really good way to remember it, some of you guys around here should really take notice, and perhaps even brush up on DMM basics...I guess I was referring more to the engineering end of the spectrum, Ohms law get you in the right direction, but then understandings degrade rapidly as a physics problem, The traces required on a circuit board for example (or where ga.) is a mathematical function...2xPi, seems to be the basis of such math, and that is where I get lost...Why?...I would have to assume it is in reference to a sphere like that of an atom, but anyway that is some deep ugly, ugly, ugly math.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2020, 11:56:49 am »
I'm not sure precisely which formulas you're referring to, but one reason Pi would show up is if you need to calculate the cross-sectional area of a round conductor like wire to calculate how much current can flow through that conductor.
- Area of a circle = Pi x radius2.

that is some deep ugly, ugly, ugly math.
Very true.   :scared

Fortunately, with most of what we do around here you can get away with the not-so-ugly math if you include some wiggle room to be on the safe side.   :lol


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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2020, 12:18:08 pm »
I am referring to basically the very first page of any textbooks on the subject, without explanation it is always d 2/pi, so matter of fact...You are probibally the rightist as I have ever heard, and to add to that, the little "d" is the differential of 2 x 3.14...So what it could also be is the area of a sine wave as 2 halfs, or a complete within a wire ( as pi is the area of a circle)... Thought of as a sphere I seem to follow somewhat because in my head that would make sense, and it would relate to a quantity over distance and time.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 12:20:08 pm by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2020, 01:04:38 pm »
Instead of a sphere, think of wire as a cylinder.
- 2d circles stacked on the z-axis line give you a consistent quantity (cross-sectional area) over distance.

The current limit is based on the cylinder diameter and materials.

Picture a garden hose vs. a fire hose.
- The larger diameter of the fire hose will allow more water to flow (current) at the same water pressure (voltage) compared to a garden hose.
- The material in the garden hose can't handle as much current and water pressure as a fire hose.
- The longer the hose is, the more resistance it will offer.


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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2020, 05:13:42 pm »
That and add a 20% safety margin and good enough for what goes on around here as far as calculations and electrical safety go... However, what is electricity? ...it is an induction, that in itself seems simple, but it wasn't until the post war era the periodic table was added to the textbooks which makes me think more of a differential between 2 circles, and a sphere in that context seems more 4th dimensional in my mind...Pi also as a study is the area if a circle, and one would just simply assume that would be definitive as an area, however that is not the case, 3.14 does not fit into a base 10 formula without a neverending reciprocal, so a differential between the two you can see becomes almost thoriretical at some point...But I regress, that may be that "new" math the kids are talking about, A cross dimensional of a cylinder is far easier to understand.

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2020, 10:20:25 pm »
What makes my head hurt is impedance and aluminum conductor reactance.

It's a relief that getting to enjoy this hobby doesn't necessarily demand understanding the whole picture- because I still don't.

I have always loved that cartoon that Scott posted, proving that I am a visual learner I suppose!
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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 08:59:34 am »
Depends on what you are building I suppose, Designing something from ground up can be quite frustrating in that respect.It does help if you are the curious type and love tearing things apart as a study, and after awhile (years) you start to see industry standards of different eras...But ya, generally building a MAME cab, or a restoration is not that deep...That multimeter of yours would be a good place to start, because it does the work for you if you understand what you are looking at...And ohms law, if you can follow that you are on a whole different workbench.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:10:22 am by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 02:48:54 pm »
to that end, electricity is often described as water in a pipe or hose... the water is the charge volts, the current or amperage is flow of that water and the pipe, however large or small, is resistance.

more water = higher volts

faster flowing water = more current

large pipe = low resistance & small pipe= higher resistance

different components can be described as water devices too

switches = valve
transistors = electrically operated valve
capacitor = bucket
inductor = water hammer arrestor
battery = water pump
loads = sprinklers

 :cheers:

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What makes my head hurt is impedance and aluminum conductor reactance

need more physics in your life...once you learn about particle spin and the magnetic fields associated with that, it'll fall right into place. you don't need to go full Schrodinger or anything.

PL1

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 05:16:24 pm »
Another plumbing-equivalent component:

Diode = one-way spring-loaded valve
- Water won't flow in one direction (reverse biased) and will only flow the other direction when there is enough water pressure (voltage) in that direction to overcome the spring holding the valve closed. (forward biased)


Scott

jennifer

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 08:11:45 pm »
Why do I feel like you guys spent alot of time at Radio Shack?...LOL
...L/Shawn, it is curious you mention partical spin, since that was one of my secret studies back in the day, conventional belief is positive seeks negative, however thats not entirely true, a positive atom is larger than a electron so utilizing physics the electron actually seeks the proton...As not to confuse others reading this however, a "Hot" ground is very seldom used in design, and the generally universal concept of positive Hot is utilized.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:14:41 pm by jennifer »

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Re: Jennifer has issues
« Reply #75 on: Yesterday at 10:26:11 pm »
Why do I feel like you guys spent alot of time at Radio Shack?
Just long enough to buy parts . . . and occasionally educate the clerks and/or customers on basic electronics, standard terminology, etc.   :lol


Scott