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Author Topic: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad  (Read 1235 times)

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MrSnoid

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I own nearly every joystick that has ever been produced by Happ, IL Eurostick, Seimitsu, Sanwa, Hori, Crown-Samducksa, Myoungshin Fanta, Taeyoung Fanta and their variations of Kaze, Fujin, Crazydongpal, Knee, and Rox Dragon. With all of these joysticks, the one that I use the most is my Happ Super. I read the scathing reviews about how sloppy the Happ Super was and how hard it was to hit diagonals and when I initially tried it, I found this to be true. I actually threw the stick away. But then I decided to dig it out of the garbage and do some experimentation. I replaced the late and much harder activating 250gmf Cherry micro switches with smoother, early activating Omron V-152-6A5 125gmf micro switches which originaly came stock on a Sanwa JLF. Then I enlarged the actuator diameter 1.5mm by tightly wrapping it with teflon plummer's tape. The teflon tape forms into itself and leaves a smooth, seamless, friction reducing surface that has lasted years with no wear or fraying, literally forming into one solid mass. Now diagonals are a breeze, movement is tight and resonsive and I've never been this good with fireballs in SSFII ever. IMO, This stick is now a super tuned all American hod rod of a joystick that can run for pinks and win against any foreign competitor!

Howard_Casto

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2020, 10:56:09 pm »
Full stop.  You must be hanging out in the wrong forums because happ is the best.  Assuming you are in North America we all grew up on either happ or wico sticks through pretty much the entirety of the arcade eras.  If they were truly bad then they would have gotten replaced by something else at some point.  Comps are great, supers are great.... all great.  I'm not knocking Japanese sticks, it's just that these aren't the sticks we grew up on. 

Vocalitus

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 02:48:42 am »
Full stop.  You must be hanging out in the wrong forums because happ is the best.  Assuming you are in North America we all grew up on either happ or wico sticks through pretty much the entirety of the arcade eras.  If they were truly bad then they would have gotten replaced by something else at some point.  Comps are great, supers are great.... all great.  I'm not knocking Japanese sticks, it's just that these aren't the sticks we grew up on.

The OP's initial estimation is correct.  My Happ supers sucked big time, until I made the similar modifications, but they are not perfect.  Even the old cab pulls I get suffer the same issues.  You cannot get good diagonal contact.

Operators in the day cared less.  The Happ joysticks used in arcades back in the day was swapped out on a regular basis, due to player abuse, so quality was never touched on.  Also most of the operators were 7 Eleven, mini-mart, or the Pizza Hut, besides nobody bothered with issues like this, just that the machine was making quarters for the owner. 

I like the feel of the super.  I'm not sure the supers we get today are the originals, as there are some crappy knockoffs that one company I can mention bundles with all their control panel products.

Osirus23

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2020, 10:32:33 am »
My first cab used Supers and they're still going great.

KenToad

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2020, 11:44:43 am »
I have heavily used Happ Supers and Competition joysticks from 2006 or so that are still working perfectly. I slightly prefer the competition joysticks, especially for 1v1 fighters, but I've never had trouble hitting diagonals with the supers. I played on a decent number of SFII machines with broken joysticks back in the day. Usually, first player would have a problem, such as not being able to reliably jump or duck. I suppose it could have been a bent actuator or failing microswitches?  :dunno

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2020, 11:43:34 pm »
Agree with Howard, itís a good stick stock. I rarely do much modification, and it plays great. Itís my go to stick for 8 way games.

I have used supers with a ggg physical restrictor and tornado terry ball top for 4 ways, but much prefer Wico leaf for golden era 80s games.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2020, 11:52:06 pm »
I can understand if you aren't used to them why you'd have a problem, but most of the mortal kombats and street fighters I played back in the day had supers in them so I learned on those sticks. 

MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 05:02:10 am »
You can 'learn' to play with any joystick regardless of quality, even a mop in a bucket can be 'learned. The point is Happ sticks and Japanese and korean sticks are different beasts entirely, and from an engineering and design standpoint, are not as accurate as Japanese and korean sticks which can also handle major abuse without the loss of accuracy. Happ Supers specifically were not designed with accuracy in mind because that would undermine the quarter gobling factor. The Supers are like a sports car that needs to be kept in tune which isn't practical with commecial use. On the other hand, the Happ Competion with it's square actuator needs no 'tuning', but by design it's diagonals are not as accurate as a round actuator due the basic laws of physics and geometry. Also the Happ actuators, Z-Stop and pivot are made of cheap PVC plastic. The iL Eurostick parts are nylon. Replacing the Happ PVC parts for nylon iL Eurostick parts improve the Happ Competition immensely. Happ Ultimates are similar to the Competion but have a much larger square actuator making diagonal even tougher to hit. Engineering wise, square actuators are not the best geometric form fit and function factor for an actuator.

KenToad

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2020, 01:14:42 pm »
Have the Happ Supers changed that much over the years? Are they low quality now? My sticks are over 14 years old and showing no signs of degradation.

The X-Arcade company made knock-off Super sticks back in the mid-2000's that were maybe slightly lower quality. The microswitches were louder than the Cherries in the Supers. But my pair of X-Arcade super clones from that era also have held up just dandy.

I don't agree with Howard that you have to get "used to them." They are super basic, excellent quality joysticks.

I wish the old home console Neo Geo joysticks were better quality. Every original Neo Geo AVS stick I've played on is basically crap.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 11:12:54 am by KenToad »

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2020, 02:03:41 pm »
The Happ Super is a decent general purpose stick, but IMHO it doesnít really excel for any given type of game. Itís also pretty poor for 4-way games, even with the actuator set to the 4-way position.

I think the main reasons why itís fallen out of favour are because it takes up a lot of space below the control panel (compared to Japanese sticks), and because to remove it from a panel you have to dismantle it by removing a fiddly circlip.

Itís also worth bearing in mind that thereís nothing particularly North American about the Happ Super (or Competiton) joysticks. They were originally rebranded joysticks manufactured by a Spanish company called Industrias Lorenzo. However, some time after the merger with Suzo, Happ started selling cheaper Chinese knock-offs instead. Iíve heard from many sources that the Chinese clones are of inferior quality to the original IL ones. However, I canít verify that as Iíve never seen one of the Chinese clones myself.
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MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2020, 02:51:49 pm »
The pre Suzo merger Happ joysticks were indeed higher quality and were originally made by iL (Industries Lorenzo) in Spain. After the Suzo merger, iL got dumped and Happ now sells their 'official' SuzoHapp sticks on their own website made in their own special Chinese factory with much cheaper actuators, Z-Stops and pivost made out of PVC instead of nylon. Thankfully iL retained the original Happ mold and design and continues to make their own iL Eurostick which is basically a Happ Competion but with a slightly stiffer spring and higher quality nylon (white) actuators, Z-Stops and pivots. I bought the iL nylon parts online and replaced the cheap PVC (black) actuator, Z-Stop and pivot that the post Suzo Happ sticks now have and so much smoother.

MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2020, 02:52:04 pm »
The pre Suzo merger Happ joysticks were indeed higher quality and were originally made by iL (Industries Lorenzo) in Spain. After the Suzo merger, iL got dumped and Happ now sells their 'official' SuzoHapp sticks on their own website made in their own special Chinese factory with much cheaper actuators, Z-Stops and pivost made out of PVC instead of nylon. Thankfully iL retained the original Happ mold and design and continues to make their own iL Eurostick which is basically a Happ Competion but with a slightly stiffer spring and higher quality nylon (white) actuators, Z-Stops and pivots. I bought the iL nylon parts online and replaced the cheap PVC (black) actuator, Z-Stop and pivot that the post Suzo Happ sticks now have and so much smoother.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2020, 03:41:21 pm »
The only reason Japanese sticks are the norm now is because older gamers are dying off and/or aging out of the hobby and only dinosaurs like us have actually spent any meaningful time in arcades from back in the day.  Kids today see those $200 fighting sticks on sale for the major consoles and assume (due to the high cost) that it's the best sticks one can buy.  Mind you they are a great option... but nah son... 'merican style.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:44:24 pm by Howard_Casto »

Grasshopper

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2020, 04:00:24 pm »
The pre Suzo merger Happ joysticks were indeed higher quality and were originally made by iL (Industries Lorenzo) in Spain. After the Suzo merger, iL got dumped and Happ now sells their 'official' SuzoHapp sticks on their own website made in their own special Chinese factory with much cheaper actuators, Z-Stops and pivost made out of PVC instead of nylon. Thankfully iL retained the original Happ mold and design and continues to make their own iL Eurostick which is basically a Happ Competion but with a slightly stiffer spring and higher quality nylon (white) actuators, Z-Stops and pivots. I bought the iL nylon parts online and replaced the cheap PVC (black) actuator, Z-Stop and pivot that the post Suzo Happ sticks now have and so much smoother.

Last time I checked (which was admittedly quite a few years ago), you could still purchase the original Super joysticks directly from IL (although they call them something else). One advantage of ordering from IL is that they sell them in a range of different colours, unlike Happ who have only ever sold them in black.
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MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2020, 04:17:56 pm »
Unfortunately iL has not made a Super or an Ultimate since the SuzoHapp merger but they continued to sell all the old back stock for a while. The iL made Ultimates also had nylon (white) actuators, stops and pivots, but all the Supers I've even own or seen had a black actuator that doesn't look or feel like nylon. By adding teflon to the diameter ireduced friction immensely as well as enlarging the actuator diameter.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2020, 04:31:27 pm »
Unfortunately iL has not made a Super or an Ultimate since the SuzoHapp merger but they continued to sell all the old back stock for a while.

Damn. I didn't know that. Have you heard that directly from IL or from someone else?

FWIW, they're still shown on IL's website (not that that necessarily proves anything).

https://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/en/joysticks/94-mando-3-r-pc3r.html
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MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2020, 06:48:13 pm »
Paradise Arcade who carry the iL Eurostick (Competion) told me that when I asked if an iL version of the Super was available. I checked the il website and they indeed do still have the Super listed in their catalog calling it JOYSTICK 3-R P/C3R. Only problem is that you need a retail licence and a minimum order qty to buy from i. The website doesn't sell retail to the public. Maybe if enough of use bother Paradise or Arcade World or Arcade Shock or any of the other arcade retail vendors out there to start stocking and selling the JOYSTICK 3-R P/C3R which by the website images, looks to have nylon components. And while we'r at it what about getting an iL version of the P360?https://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/en/joysticks/94-mando-3-r-pc3r.htmls.

leapinlew

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2020, 10:21:50 pm »
I think the main point still is that the OP assumes folks here think Supers are bad and that he's fixed them by making modifications. Supers being bad joysticks isn't something that resonates with me, and many other folks I know. Everyone has different experiences at their local arcade, and to me, the Supers represents the feel I was used to. Mine have been holding up great. No complaints.

Quote
Happ Supers specifically were not designed with accuracy in mind because that would undermine the quarter gobling factor.

So you think in the extremely competitive arcade world, the sticks were purposely designed to be inaccurate to allow for greater profits? lol

This reminds me of the great Nintendo joystick discussion of years past. Some people loved them. Some hated them.


MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2020, 11:26:56 pm »
I just don't find it logical that in the late 1980's, early 1990's, the intent of American arcade machine joystick manufacturers was to make accurate and repeatable controls in order to make it easier for players to beat the game. Accuracy over durability would not be what they would go for. As far as competion goes, the field was evened by everyone having to use the same jack of all trades masters of none Happ Super, Ultimate or Competion which were likely to have been abused and unlikely to have been kept in top condition. And about that great Nintendo joystick discussion of years past, were there actually some that loved the N64 gamepad?

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2020, 09:36:28 am »
Paradise Arcade who carry the iL Eurostick (Competion) told me that when I asked if an iL version of the Super was available. I checked the il website and they indeed do still have the Super listed in their catalog calling it JOYSTICK 3-R P/C3R. Only problem is that you need a retail licence and a minimum order qty to buy from i. The website doesn't sell retail to the public. Maybe if enough of use bother Paradise or Arcade World or Arcade Shock or any of the other arcade retail vendors out there to start stocking and selling the JOYSTICK 3-R P/C3R which by the website images, looks to have nylon components. And while we'r at it what about getting an iL version of the P360?https://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/en/joysticks/94-mando-3-r-pc3r.htmls.

I've just found a Spanish reseller that appears to still hold stocks of the original IL Supers.

I don't need any right now, but I'm now wondering whether I should stockpile a few just in case.

I've been kicking myself for not buying a few more of the excellent Suzo 500 joysticks when they were cheap and readily available. They're now rare as hen's teeth. Unfortunately, they were another casualty of the Happ-Suzo merger.
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MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2020, 05:33:58 am »
Grasshopper, is there a link to the Spanish reseller or their name because I sure would like to buy one.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2020, 01:42:22 pm »
FWIW, at least as the history was explained to me, the Supers and Competitions were HAPP designed products.  They had a relationship with IL, who produced them to their specifications.  At some point, the two companies parted ways, and both continued to produce the sticks.  HAPP went to China (like virtually every other company has in the past two decades) and as anyone who deals with production from there knows, the first part of that road can be pretty rocky.  But over the years, the quality has increased pretty substantially, and they offer very good sticks at a good price.  A year or two ago, they started using some nice Cherry switches in the comps, which really improved the feel and performance.  And I don't recall any of them having "PVC" spacers.  I'm sure it was some other engineering grade plastic, if not nylon.  Anything which is white and slick feeling, probably isn't straight nylon, rather some sort of PTFE blend.

The fit and finish of at least one of the clones has come a long way as well.  I'd be surprised if they aren't coming from the same factory as the HAPP parts at this stage of the game.  But switches can mean everything where performance is concerned, and HAPP has the clones beat big time in that regard.  Chinese switches still leave a fair bit to be desired, but you get what you pay for.

And finally to the OP, it sounds like your ideal is a very tight throw stick specifically for fighters.  I can understand how someone looking for that in a stick would look past the Super, as they really weren't designed to be that tight.  But I have to ask, did you attempt to adjust the blades on your original switches before wrapping the actuator in tape?  One of the nice things about sticks which use those kind of switches is that they allow for some adjustment in that manner.  Also, being good for fighters doesn't mean that they will be good for something else.  If someone wanted to also play 4-way games with the mod you made, I would expect them to be much worse than stock.  Like anything, there's always a correct tool for the job at hand, and a whole bunch of tools which sort of work.


MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2020, 06:36:38 am »
Re: it sounds like your ideal is a very tight throw stick specifically for fighters.  I can understand how someone looking for that in a stick would look past the Super, as they really weren't designed to be that tight.  But I have to ask, did you attempt to adjust the blades on your original switches before wrapping the actuator in tape?

My original post says that the Super is the stick I use the most so that would make it my ideal stick, wouldn't it? The negative about the Super I mention comes from just about every other arcade forum I have been to and every YouTube review I have ever watched. The reason I have just about every type of joystick available is because my credo is 'the right tool for the right job'. Seems that many are a bit sensitive here to any criticism on Happ products. There are good and bad points about every type of joystick and as you so astutely state, "Like anything, there's always a correct tool for the job at hand, and a whole bunch of tools which sort of work"
P.S. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, I've been modding and repairing arcade components for 30+ years and in the past have done all that you mention and more. 'Adjusting' blades means bending them which is really not a good idea. With 4 micro switches how repeatable is your bending process? From an engineering standpoint enlarging the actuator is a more controllable means to the same end than indescriminently bending levers.The 'tape' is not adhesive tape but thin teflon pipe tape sans adhesive which as anyone who has done any kind of plumming knows that when you wrap this stuff tightly around anything it becomes one solid unravelable piece and has friction resistant qualities as well. In the past I have 3D printed larger actuators but found that teflon works just as well, maybe better due to teflon's reduction of friction and the fact that 3D plastics are not the most durable of materials. Also micro switch gmf and point of activation make huge differences in performance and the Cherry switches late activation meant a longer throw which I personally don't care for. IMO performance was improved by early activating, lower gmf Omron switches. Experimentation is the key to finding the 'ideal' joystick for each individual's taste. I'm just trying to share some of the insight and experience that I have aquired repairing arcade components and building controllers for over 3 decades. As to the exact types of plastics used by Happ or iL, be they PVC, nylon, ABS, PTE or whatever for their pivot, Z-stop and actuator, to anyone who has actually compared their form, fit and fuction, it is apparent that Happ uses an inferior plastic.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 08:37:06 am by MrSnoid »

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2020, 10:37:27 am »
The only reason I asked about the switches is because after reading your post, I decided to grab a Super off the shelf and see if I could make it tight and so that the diagonals were as sensitive as the primary directions, only through bending the levers.  I was successful in doing so, and can certainly see the result as being good for fighters and SHMUPS.  But it would be horrendous for 4-way games, so a dedicated 4-way would be a necessity along side of it.

There was nothing "indiscriminate" in my approach.  The position of the bend on the lever and the angle are both important in achieving the goal.  If you want to use PTFE thread sealing tape instead, and it works for you, then by all means go ahead.  But it's not the only means to the same end.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2020, 11:53:46 am »
For 4 way games I have this GGG SUPER 4-wayô Precision True Restrictor. I pop it on my Super for a bit of Pac-Man, Donkey kong etc. https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=310

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2020, 11:57:06 am »
For 4 way games I have this GGG SUPER 4-wayô Precision True Restrictor. I pop it on my Super for a bit of Pac-Man, Donkey kong etc. https://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=310

I think you are just messing with me now :)

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2020, 01:41:57 pm »
Through normal use the micro switch levers will eventually bend to the path of most force and will require re-adjustment. A larger actuator never needs adjustment.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2020, 03:02:18 pm »
Through normal use the micro switch levers will eventually bend to the path of most force and will require re-adjustment. A larger actuator never needs adjustment.

While this is true if the bends are not in the correct place, it can be done in such a way that it doesn't happen.  Otherwise, the levers would bend from normal use, even if not adjusted.

If the stick restriction wears out to the point where the levers are taking force, however, all bets are off.

Grasshopper

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2020, 03:53:19 pm »
I guess the point is that if you buy an original IL manufactured Super joystick (which for some reason IL calls a "compact" joystick even though it's not particularly compact) then you're guaranteed a quality product. However, if you buy a Chinese clone (including the ones sold by Happ) then you're taking a gamble.

It's the same with the various Sanwa and Seimitsu clones out there. Some are excellent but others are truly awful. The trouble is you just don't know until you buy them.

Even clone joysticks from the same reseller can vary in quality over time depending upon which Chinese factory and production line they came off.

Grasshopper, is there a link to the Spanish reseller or their name because I sure would like to buy one.

Here's a link to their website:

https://www.arcadexpress.com/en/arcade-joysticks/91-1194-joystick-compacto-industria-lorenzo.html#/14-colour-blue

And here's a link to their Ebay store:

http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/Arcade-Express

FWIW, I've just ordered a couple of blue IL Super joysticks (and a few other bits and pieces) from them. However, I can't vouch for this company as this is the first time that I've purchased anything from them.
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MrSnoid

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2020, 02:17:01 pm »
That stick has cheap Swiss made Saia-Burgess micro switches and a totally different color and probably cheaper material than what is used for the actuator and base on the official il stick shown here https://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/en/joysticks/94-mando-3-r-pc3r.html. It looks like Chinese junk to me. The ones sold on the Happ website aren't much better. Why Happ chose to sell lower quality knockoffs of their own stick on their official website doesn't seem logical. Why anyone would choose Happ over il today doesn't seem logical.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2020, 02:46:23 pm »
That stick has cheap Swiss made Saia-Burgess micro switches and a totally different color and probably cheaper material than what is used for the actuator and base on the official il stick shown here https://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/en/joysticks/94-mando-3-r-pc3r.html. It looks like Chinese junk to me. The ones sold on the Happ website aren't much better. Why Happ chose to sell lower quality knockoffs of their own stick on their official website doesn't seem logical. Why anyone would choose Happ over il today doesn't seem logical.

I don't know why they chose to use saia-burgess micro switches (are they cheap?), but I can assure you that the joystick shown on Arcade Xpress' webpage is a genuine IL stick. I've already got several black handled IL Supers in my possession, one of which was obtained directly from IL. They look identical, and they all have black actuators. I've also got an IL catalogue that shows a picture of their "compact" joystick with a black actuator.

I'm not sure why the picture on IL's website shows a white actuator. Maybe they offer different designs. But in any case, it's clearly only a CAD mockup, and not an actual picture of the joystick.
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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2020, 03:03:19 pm »
Yeah, never, ever saw any Super, original, clone, IL or HAPP with a white actuator.  Nylon comes in black or white (natural).  Color means nothing.  The only sticks I remember from IL with a natural Nylon actuator were their version of the Competitions. 

And Saia-Burgess switches seem to find their way onto a lot of sticks which originate in the EU.  I guess they just buy local.  The funny thing about those switches is the color scheme.  Makes them look like they are Chinese-made with a Saia-Burgess logo on them.  Maybe the Chinese manufacturers knocked off the color scheme when SB started using it, but who can know anymore.

Manufacturers cut corners nowadays because YOU (meaning consumers in general) want X for price Y.  Parts costs go up over time, just like any other commodities.  The manufacturers aren't going to pay you to buy something from them.  It would be suicide.  They also know they can't sell at high prices, and maintain the same volume.  So they are forced to make concessions to serve the broader market.

I don't think people realize just how much more things would cost if it wasn't for Chinese goods.  They may not be the absolute best, but they are getting better and at the price most are still willing to pay.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 03:10:26 pm by RandyT »

opt2not

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2020, 03:59:03 pm »
Wow, lots of misleading information here from some of our newer members.

Happs Supers are great sticks as is. They are what they are, general purpose sticks meant for just that...general purposes. But there are specific genre's that they are exceptional in, moreso than japanese sticks.

Comparing Happs Supers to sticks you find in fight sticks today is like comparing apples to oranges.  You can't compare a stick that was mainly meant to be general purpose, to sticks that are specifically built for a certain genre of game. 

For example, I would sooner play beat-em-ups or puzzle games on Happs Supers or Wico's than a Sanwa or Siemitsu. The latter being more important; Puzzle games like Bust-a-move benefit a lot from large throw and looser spring movements, because of the 1-to-1 corilation of movement you see on the screen, i.e. the rotation of the Bubble Pointer, with the motion of the lever. Also, small amount of clicking benefits those games because of the sweeping motions needed to make it feel smooth.

Same with beat-em-ups, I prefer the larger sweeping actuation of the switches you get out of Happs compared to Japanese sticks because of the movement of your character in "3D space" (left right, foreground background movements).
Sure you could try to mimic this on japanese sticks by removing the square gate and putting in an octo or round gate (I'm looking at you LS-32's) but with the short throws of those sticks, and the larger dead spaces makes them feel really clunky compared to a stock Happs Super or Wico.

The claim that they're not accurate, is completely false, and insinuating that they're meant to be inaccurate for quarter munching is just --> FAIL. People who are claiming this are clearly not used to joysticks with round gates, or looser spring pressure. There are types of games that are better with Happs Super-type joysticks than there are with the 'modern norm' of sticks today.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2020, 09:39:25 am »
From an design standpoint, the statement that any game that requires repeatabilty and precision would benefit from a larger throw and looser spring movements is ludicrous. I'm a 65 year old retired engelectromechanical engineer and any educated analysis of form fit and fuction contradicts your opinions. Do some actual product analysis as I have done for the last 37 years and you might learn something about the design process. It's good to learn and listen but that seems difficult for some...

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2020, 09:41:43 am »
Score ten million point on Robotron and then get back to us.

Opt knows how to play games. He knows this stuff.



« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 10:07:46 am by Mike A »

leapinlew

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2020, 10:34:34 am »
This is a funny conversation.

MrSnoid just told RandyT where to buy a Groovy Game Gear Super 4 way restrictor and then told folks to listen to him because he's got experience. This thread has made my day!

 :cheers:

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2020, 10:44:53 am »
Well he is an
Quote
engelectromechanical engineer
.

Whatever the hell that is.

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Re: Happ Super the excellent misunderstood joystick that you heard was bad
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2020, 01:53:31 pm »
From an design standpoint, the statement that any game that requires repeatabilty and precision would benefit from a larger throw and looser spring movements is ludicrous. I'm a 65 year old retired engelectromechanical engineer and any educated analysis of form fit and fuction contradicts your opinions. Do some actual product analysis as I have done for the last 37 years and you might learn something about the design process. It's good to learn and listen but that seems difficult for some...

And what the hell does that have to do with playing video games?  It'd be like a shoe designer arguing with Jordan over which shoe he feels helps him dunk better.  If you think the shortest throw distance is always best then why are you bothering with arcade controls as a d-pad and buttons obviously have the shortest throw of them all?  It's a typical engineer mentality to focus only on the mechanical device and completely ignore all outside factors.  As an amateur software developer I can tell you that particularly back when games used digital controls, some had "looser" and "tighter" input response built into the game physics and thus different types of sticks worked best with different games.  That doesn't even take into account the human factor.....   moving a device like a joystick with precision with the human hand has a lot of factors... factors that are not an exact science.