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Author Topic: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?  (Read 2543 times)

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bollwerk

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Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?
« on: September 15, 2020, 12:30:04 am »
This was disappointing response... Am I missing something here? This seems like a really strange position for them to take.

me - "I am looking to connect my existing pair of turbo twist 2 spinners to a U-HID board from Ultimarc. However, the existing wiring harnesses appear to be glued to the control board my spinners came with. Do you have a separate wiring harness I can purchase, to avoid needing to damage my existing board and wiring? I would like to be able to change back if needed."

GGG support - "We don't recommend this, as a dedicated microcontroller is almost always a better option than an "all-in-one" type interface for these kinds of devices.

There's also a pretty high likelihood that the spinners will be damaged if the utmost in care is not taken every step of the way. This is why the cables are glued to the boards and pre-connected."
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 02:37:37 pm by bollwerk »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 01:08:10 am »
That's Randy's nice way of saying he thinks most customers are too stupid to properly read instructions and hook up wires.  It's also good legal practice to not sell you parts to mod his products or he could be considered liable if you screw it up.   I figure you can handle +5v Gnd and two data pins though.  ;)  Snap a pic of the boards and somebody should be able to help you out.   

As it pertains to MAME all in one boards actually work better in some ways due to the fact that windows can't properly keep usb devices in the proper order so the less usb devices the better.  Both GGG and Ultimarc sell quality products.  With that in mind it seems like every response you get from Randy is given with his business in mind.  Remember he wants to sell you things. 

Osirus23

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 10:14:09 am »
Give him another month to think about it.

bollwerk

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 02:36:37 pm »
Remember he wants to sell you things.
I thought I was giving him the opportunity to sell me something, haha!
The TT2 spinners have a port on the side where the connector plugs in. I'm honestly surprised GGG doesn't have a connector they sell separately. That's all I wanted.
I don't even understand what there is to damage, if I use a different connector. I'm specifically trying NOT to make changes to the board with the wiring glued on, as I know I would break it.
It feels like GGG is pushing me to buy another set of spinners, from Ultimarc, to accomplish my goal. Is that really what they want?

I have no intention of making modifications to the existing board and wiring harnesses, as that's out of my skill set. If GGG won't sell me the wiring harnesses separately, I have to get new spinners from Ultimarc.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 02:40:48 pm by bollwerk »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 03:01:18 pm »


I have no intention of making modifications to the existing board and wiring harnesses, as that's out of my skill set.

Well then you came to the wrong place.  The "b" stands for "build" in byoac, not "buy".  Any idiot can make a wiring harness.  I assure you it isn't out of your skill set.  As I instructed.... take a pick of the board with the connectors and somebody should be able to help you out. 

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 10:50:54 pm »
The TT2 spinners have a port on the side where the connector plugs in. I'm honestly surprised GGG doesn't have a connector they sell separately. That's all I wanted.
Randy used to carry "slave" cables for attaching a second TT2 to the Dupont pins on the Opti-Wiz, but he didn't list them for sale separately.
- Seems like he'd still have some of those cables for customers who decided to add a second spinner at a later date.   :dunno

If Randy no longer carries them, there's a discussion identifying the type of connector on the TT2 and link to a suitable 6" cable in this thread.
The cables ordered from http://www.tinyosshop.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=643 work.  They're short, but they fit for anyone looking at options in the future.



Splice the wires from that cable to some pre-crimped Dupont wires/jumpers using a euro-style terminal strip.
- You're good to go with just a jeweler's screwdriver and maybe cutting/stripping a few wires.

Good advice from Randy.
A word of caution using a cable like that:  Don't assume the Red and Black are power and ground on third party cable assemblies.  The signals must be matched properly to the spinner inputs/outputs, or damage to the spinner will result.

Here are the pinouts for the new and older Opti-Wiz.
- Using a multimeter, it should be easy to find which pins on the ribbon cable go to 5v, ground, and the two data lines on the Opti-Wiz.
- Only 4 of the 5 pins on the connector are used.

New:


Older:



Scott

bollwerk

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 06:40:12 pm »
Well then you came to the wrong place.  The "b" stands for "build" in byoac, not "buy".  Any idiot can make a wiring harness.  I assure you it isn't out of your skill set.  As I instructed.... take a pick of the board with the connectors and somebody should be able to help you out.
Maybe I didn't explain my intent correctly, but it's no big deal, since PL1 has provided some useful info I can work with. I'm not opposed to building things. I just have never created a cable with a specific connector from scratch. At some point, we are buying parts. It's just a question of how "raw".

@PL1 thanks! This is exactly what I was hoping for. I just needed 2 more of these cables:

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 06:54:00 pm by bollwerk »

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2020, 03:04:18 pm »
Some may not be aware, but I do the things I do not based on how I feel that day, rather for actual reasons. 

We do not like to sell Slave spinners without the interface, as the only way we have found to ensure that someone doesn't accidentally reverse the polarity, which immediately destroys the costly precision encoders, is to permanently attach the cables to the PCB.  You might think that such an occurrence would be rare, but I assure you that it is not.  And every time we would get a complaint about a spinner not working, it was inevitably from someone who had purchased a Slave spinner and was not careful enough.  I've even learned the hard way a couple of times myself (long ago.)  Trust me, it's no fun telling someone they just broke their new toy they saved up for, literally in a heartbeat when their excitement took over.   Since the change, no more dead spinners or unhappy customers, and that's what makes me happy :).

As for connecting to other devices, aside from the above issues, I can only know the performance I programmed into my own interfaces, and I did not take this lightly when doing so.  The issues one can find interfacing with an extremely high-resolution spinner, are much different than with an arcade trackball.  Even some interfaces supposedly designed for that use have problems with backspin.  As I do not sell or support 3rd party interfaces, I do not test the devices we developed with those interfaces to ascertain suitability for the task at hand.  And for reference, some very unique and extremely efficient logic was required in the very fast controller used on the TurboTwist / Opti-Wiz3 interface, just to achieve the performance required with the features it offers.

We purchase the special cables with the encoder modules as a set.  In the past, we have sold the extra cables (from the aforementioned spinner repairs), but as we no longer have dead spinner repairs, the supply of these cables has dried up.  Prior to even seeing this thread, the OP was supplied with pinout information, again with a stern warning to not reverse polarity.  For his sake, I hope the warning was taken to heart.  And yes, those cables will work, but someone who thinks black is ground and red is +5 when connected to a TT2 spinner, will likely have a bad day.  As those cables were not designed for use with the spinners, the informal color codes are quite incorrect.

Since the beginning of the age of 1UP arcade machines, Raspberry Pi's with power supplies you wouldn't want to charge your phone with and "mainstream" appeal for arcade related items, I can no longer assume that the end user is technically savvy.  So without knowing the capabilities of the user, it's often wisest nowadays to err on the side of the neophyte.

Did I cover everything? :)

leapinlew

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2020, 10:05:50 pm »

Since the beginning of the age of 1UP arcade machines, Raspberry Pi's with power supplies you wouldn't want to charge your phone with and "mainstream" appeal for arcade related items, I can no longer assume that the end user is technically savvy.  So without knowing the capabilities of the user, it's often wisest nowadays to err on the side of the neophyte.


So, everyone before the 1UP machines you do consider savvy?


pbj

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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 11:47:03 am »
Seems like one would redesign that circuit to have some voltage protection.


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Re: Is Groovy Game Gear being obtuse, or am I?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 12:32:36 pm »
So, everyone before the 1UP machines you do consider savvy?

Much more so, yes.  You don't need to know anything about electronics to buy an A1UP, but learning some fundamentals was usually a first step when starting from scratch. :)

Seems like one would redesign that circuit to have some voltage protection.

We don't manufacture the encoder modules, so that is not a solution for those who would use the TT2 with other interfaces. 

We actually did consider it for the interface, but this is usually something done on the device side (FYI, trackball encoder PCBs have this), and multiple voltage drops could affect device operation.  The solution we settled upon is 1) easier for the user, having only one connector to plug in, 2) is more reliable, as connectors are much more fragile and prone to issues than a solidly affixed cable, and 3) leaves the full 5v from the USB port available to the user for devices which may not work properly with additional voltage drops.