Oled monitor

[Mike A]

Start a build thread. Post some pics of something you already finished. We need more projects posted here.

[Howard_Casto]

I can't talk since I build all kinds of crap and rarely post it. 

[Jimbo]

1500 bucks is cheap and disposable?

In 2020? Yes, pretty much. 1,500 every few years to keep an arcade cabinet going that can play literally tens of thousands of games is pretty much nothing IMO.

Wowsers.  I would never consider paying anywhere near that much for a monitor for an arcade cabinet.  I'll stick with my Hantarex Polo that cost me £200 14 years ago and has been running fine ever since.

[Mike A]

Jennifer you really need to post some pics of what a 10,000 dollar MAME machine looks like. I am intensely curious. Start a thread and post pics of ones you have already completed.

Nobody has posted a tutorial here on hand winding CRT yokes. I would really like to see some of that. I am thinking of tackling it myself.

You need to post some of the stuff you are working on too Howard.

[Jimbo]

I have a vector XY kit, and I need to tackle rewinding the yoke on a CRT I want to use with it at some point.  C'mon, someone show us how it's done

There was a video on youtube from Arcade Jason doing it too.

[Mike A]

Jennifer did like a hundred of them. She has to be the most experienced.

[javeryh]

1500 bucks is cheap and disposable?

In 2020? Yes, pretty much. 1,500 every few years to keep an arcade cabinet going that can play literally tens of thousands of games is pretty much nothing IMO.

That seems like a lot to me and it's not because I couldn't afford it.

[jennifer]

That was a hack project that went on for years to get right, and in the course of experimenting yes probably did do 100 of those darn things...However the math is done now (somewhat, but it is not critical perfect in terms of the induction since the hv compensates) and it is crazy easy...Arcade Jason is a good vid on the subject, that is the real deal, I notice he also has one on giant color vector tubes also (something I happen to be working on) Jenn will have to check that out when she gets a minute....So excited!

[Mike A]

I still want to see one of those 10,000 dollar MAME machines.

[jennifer]

Pouring 40 gallons of resin is a project that requires temp control that falls into a relatively small window (dries too fast, or to slow) the boat guys deal with that, and I used to make Car bodys back in the day. But today not so much, and need perfect days...It also stinks, really intense chem stench, not really a thread for typical arcade builds...Full composite is 30% lighter than its plywood couterpart, The reason behind it (cost be darned) is with the larger monitor, Real glass (on a Star Wars cab) and the steel wing struts for the conversion should bring the weight of the machine back into the ballpark of a Star Wars cab...This is not a typical build...But I will put up some pics when the cab is built.

[Mike A]

I would like to see pics of some of the completed ones.

[bperkins01]

Pouring 40 gallons of resin is a project that requires temp control that falls into a relatively small window (dries too fast, or to slow) the boat guys deal with that, and I used to make Car bodys back in the day. But today not so much, and need perfect days...It also stinks, really intense chem stench, not really a thread for typical arcade builds...Full composite is 30% lighter than its plywood couterpart, The reason behind it (cost be darned) is with the larger monitor, Real glass (on a Star Wars cab) and the steel wing struts for the conversion should bring the weight of the machine back into the ballpark of a Star Wars cab...This is not a typical build...But I will put up some pics when the cab is built.

I've built a few boats - who's epoxy do you like to use?  I've done a considerable amount of vacuum bagging..  You can show some

[jennifer]

I like Total Boat, and usually get it from Jamestown Dist., They get it shipped fast, laying it by hand is really my only options, I am thinking...I looked into that bagging system during a carbon fiber project and really wished I had used it, since carbon is really hard to do by hand since you can't see it wet out.

[bperkins01]

I vacuumed bagged my 23' boat with a 4CFM pump..  one small section at a time..
You don't need much to do it.. 
- poly sheeting
- 100% dress liner (fabric store - very inexpensive)
- quilt batting
- duct tape
- modeling clay..

Can't even see how you can do carbon fiber w/o it..
a bagging "system" is not required.. 
A vacuum pump rated for a continuous duty cycle (mine was a Gast if I remember)..  that's it..

[Mike A]

Still no pics? I am very disappointed.

Your stuff sounds unique.

[jennifer]

It does look like fun, just pump it in there, carbon panels would be the only way to do it, but generally I just do wraps, and find if you just oversaturate it is generally not a problem, just squeeze out the extra... On glass though, (especially on large 4X8 sheets) rolling it and laying it by hand should be quite straitforward since I am using a poly laminating resin (quite forgiving) with 5 layers of glass, and the a sheet of red formica on both sides...Bringing it up to a perfect 3/4" (for T moulding)...Mike, this is a long, long project, Jenns last build in fact, a culmination of skills and years of building cabs, It would only be a thread of literally watching paint dry.

[Mike A]

I keep asking for pics of builds you have already completed.

[Arroyo]

I remember seeing this thread and  being perplexed by a lot of misconceptions about OLED, like input lag and screen burn.  I came across this video and the guy does a really nice job of breaking down how an OLED works in a gaming environment:

[wp34]

I remember seeing this thread and  being perplexed by a lot of misconceptions about OLED, like input lag and screen burn.  I came across this video and the guy does a really nice job of breaking down how an OLED works in a gaming environment:

Thanks for posting that.  The high-speed video comparison was really interesting. 

[csnow]

They are still too large unless you have a lot of space for depth.  I have a pedestal that I would love to have an OLED but even with the "small" 48" LG that puts you back at least 4 to 6 feet off the wall for proper viewing distance for gaming.  If they had a 32" OLED, I would be all over it.

[Arroyo]

They are still too large unless you have a lot of space for depth.  I have a pedestal that I would love to have an OLED but even with the "small" 48" LG that puts you back at least 4 to 6 feet off the wall for proper viewing distance for gaming.  If they had a 32" OLED, I would be all over it.

Rotate it vertically and mask off the top and bottom.  Solves all problems.

[csnow]

I still play classics on arcade monitors.  My use case would be a pedestal with modern consoles so vertical orientation doesn't work.

[Osirus23]

I still play classics on arcade monitors.  My use case would be a pedestal with modern consoles so vertical orientation doesn't work.

Same. As long as I can still get a CRT arcade monitor there is no contest.

[csnow]

OLED is pretty darn good though - I am a big fan.  I wish they weren't capped at 60hz.  The would make for one sexy MAME big screen with proper scanlines.

[Arroyo]

They are?

https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/features

[csnow]

They are?

https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/oled-tv/features

Pretty darn good or capped at 60hz

All the info I could find on the LG and new Vizio models shows them capped.  Did you find something contrary?  I would love to be wrong on this one.

[Arroyo]

Did you find something contrary?  I would love to be wrong on this one.

Well the link I put above markets that they do:



I would be surprised if they would put that out there and it weren't true.  But I have not read up on testing for it.

[csnow]

After reading the link I remember.  It is 120hz with HDMI 2.1 only.  When I was looking 2.1 wasn't available yet so with anything other than 2.1 its 60hz - my bad.  I knew the 60hz was stuck in my head for some reason.  I don't think there are any 2.1 HDMI cards out yet are there or in stock if they did make it out.

[Arroyo]

Looks like the newer cards support it:

https://www.cablematters.com/blog/HDMI/hdmi-2-1-cables-for-rtx-3090-graphics-card

But what is probably a bigger deal with these panels is the support for G-Sync and Freesync. 

If you combine this with GroovyMame you can get accurate refresh rates on the old games and therefore substantially reduce input lag.  All without having to setup frame delay on a per game basis, which without G-Sync or Freesync is a time consuming pain in the but.

[csnow]

Agreed on the Gsync.  Those two cards are sold out and no one knows when they will be back in stock.  HDMI 2.1 is still somewhat of a unicorn and very expensive.  It will probably be another year before its mainstream.  Hopefully in a couple of years OLED will make it down to the computer monitor sizing.  Exciting opportunities on the horizon for sure.  I just bought two 25" Wells 7k monitors for my projects.  I have a couple of burn free tubes and extra chassis.  I am hoping these will provide years of use.

[schmerzkaufen]

@cs : Yeah that's what I was concerned about when we discussed it in private, as I suspected you really need a card with 2.1

...or again see if the set can do 4K@61Hz desktop (or better 62~63), too bad the LG OLED owners I asked that about never got how important an information that is and none cared to help.
People will make hour-long carefully edited videos to boast their latest fancy product purchase, but ask them something specific like making a custom mode or two and test the effectiveness -matter of minutes- well, they will totally freak out and run away.

About monitor-sized OLED I wouldn't be as optimistic, people have been wishing and saying 'oh surely in a couple of years or something' for like since OLED TVs hit the market. The only mainstream model that 'kinda' came out was 30" cost like $5,000 and was cancelled almost immediately due to unsustainable burn-in issues.
48" is just the finest they managed to make so far, the problem is that they're dead set on it being at least 4K, while a WQHD would certainly be the much easier, cheaper, and be welcome. *sigh*

I see you have probably dropped the LCD idea to re-stock CRTs instead, which is a good idea.
LCD is workable but to get the best of a lesser solution like that you need to mind every aspect of it, and generally people don't suspect how complex the whole thing can be.
As an example it took me two~three years and a number of disappointing useless purchases before, plus a lot of hair-pulling moments and solliciting Calamity's patience, to achieve a 'decent' LCD setup (not even including the unhealthy amount of hours making custom CRT effects, filters, and shaders)

Today the GroovyMAME part for flat panels where involved has become easier, but putting that aside VRR is more broadly available with larger monitors and TVs too to make it even more attractive...
...really?
Because even with that "VRR MAME-ing" or retro-gaming on the whole is actually still not as convenient and plug-and-play as some people imagine because of the limitations we know, and picking the right display+gpu is not simply a matter of minutes reading a mere features list or reviews.
(reviews are useful, but they never test some technical areas retro-gaming hardware and software users actually require)

[zestyphresh]

I'm biased as it's what I used on my machine but a late generation plasma screen (i.e. the UK 50/60 Panasonic models, might be different in the US) is an improvement over LED (in most cases) where a CRT is undesirable. You don't get the really slim bezels, they are heavier and they kick out a bit of heat, but the colour reproduction (especially blacks) and motion are excellent. They are also pretty cheap - the 42" GT50 I used was only £50 (~$70 maybe?), the bloody glass was more expensive.

Screen burn is pretty non-existent on these too, i've absolutely rinsed games with fixed UI's on the one we have for our main TV and I haven't seen any in the 6 years we've had it.

[schmerzkaufen]

If you can find plamas like these then sure, they're arguably even better than OLED due to the better motion.

Being rather old most of them have some input lag, yet few have been reliably tested for that, and anyways the better motion again weighs favourably in the overall perception so it's rarely a big issue.

I've considered that solution before but wasn't lucky in my search, in short most used plasmas I've found around in my country were bad/trashed.

[formula409]

The new AMD cards will support VRR with these OLEDs, too, and availability might be better.

[csnow]

I see you have probably dropped the LCD idea to re-stock CRTs instead, which is a good idea.
LCD is workable but to get the best of a lesser solution like that you need to mind every aspect of it, and generally people don't suspect how complex the whole thing can be

Yes, I decided to stick with the CRTs in the arcade and am looking in the local ads on Craigslist and Offer Up for a good CRT for consoles.  After my last chassis went out causing one of my more popular machines to be down on a planned family/friend get together, I was ready to throw in the towel and move to something with "less" headaches but provide a very convincing experience. After our discussions and an eye bleeding amount of reading on various forums and YouTube vids, I came to the same conclusion you did.  It is a lot more complex and expensive endeavor than I had ever imagined (to do it right).  I did learn a lot which was worth the efforts.  I do want to publicly thank you for all the information you gave me and the nudges of what to go read further.  I just decided to bite the bullet and go ahead buy a few of what I consider outrageous monitor prices and  be done with it.  The extra chassis I have will be rebuild and kept on the shelf (climate controlled) for spares.  I standardized on the Wells 7k and it will be in all my machines, so swapping stuff and managing spares will be easier.  I just turned 50, so I am hoping to get another twenty years out of these dinosaurs.

The new AMD cards will support VRR with these OLEDs, too, and availability might be better.

The LGs will be a great option once 2.1 is readily available.  Right now you couldn't buy a 2.1 even if you were willing to pay the $1200-$1500 price tag.  I have no doubt they are coming, but I needed an immediate solution.  I assume it will be a summer before seeing sub $500 2.1 cards, maybe longer.