Just zapped myself (electrical wiring help)

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Robbbert:
So many differences between countries. Here in Australia the active and neutral come from the power grid which is common to a neighbourhood (no individual transformers). The neutral is earthed in each house's meter box, to make the M.E.N. (multiple-earthed-neutral) system. This ensures that each house has the correct 240 volts with respect to earth, to counter drift due to the resistance of long supply wires.

Please turn off the power (fuse or circuit-breaker) before touching your house wiring. 110 volts might make you dance a little, but 240 can throw you to the ground or even kill. Be sensible.

As for wiring colours, we used to have red for active, black for neutral and green for ground. Then they changed it to brown, blue, and green with a yellow stripe.

Titchgamer:

--- Quote from: DaOld Man on August 23, 2020, 09:14:24 am ---Thanks for the info on European wiring titchgamer!
Believe it or not, I have worked on some machines made in Germany, Netherlands, and Switzerland. Though most use our standard of wiring I guess to accommodate us, I have worked on some using the 220 volt layout like you describe.
Our system in US normally has 3 wires coming into a home from the electric pole or transformer. (Im not talking 3 phase).
Factories use 3 phase, whereas there are three hot wires and a ground (or earth).
Anyway, back to home usage, we have two "hots" and one "neutral" coming into the house.
One hot wire is 120 volts to neutral, Other hot wire is 120 volts to neutral, and we get 240 volts between the two hot wires.
Our neutral is tied to ground by either attaching it to a metal water pipe (not as common as years back), or a ground rod, 8 feet long and driven into the earth.
So hence, hot to ground neutral to ground.
Our appliances are mostly 120 volts, some are 240.
we run a hot, neutral, and a ground to each 120 V appliance or outlet.
The hot and neutral carry the current. The ground does not unless there is a fault. Ground is connected to metal frame of the appliance.
Why do we do this? When a loose connection in a current carrying wire occurs, the loose connection will get hot. The connection will eventually open, and if you are using the neutral for the ground, then you are now making the frame of the appliance hot. The ground doesnt normally carry current, so you dont have that worry.
We run two hots and a ground to 240 volt appliances. Again ground does not normally carry current.
If the appliance uses both 240 and 120, we must run 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground. (Clothes dryer, which in latter years we were allowed to use the ground for a neutral, so my dryer outlet has only 3 prongs.)
And our normal colors to identify neutral are white, and ground is green or bare. I think your color for neutral (or common) is blue, and ground is green or yellow with green stripe.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling.
And as far as 220 being more dangerous than 120, some electricians will argue that the 220 will knock you away faster. Ive been shocked by both and cant tell any difference LOL
Jennifer, if you have a tool that is shocking you will you touch it, make sure the ground prong is not cut off on the plug and that the outlet is grounded.
All else fails, attach a wire to the metal or case and run it to a know grounded thing such as a metal water pipe that runs a good distance in the ground.
Here is a diagram of how our homes use 120/240 from the electric company's transformer, usually on a pole.
The neutral is attached to a ground rod at the pole, then again at the entrance into the home.

--- End quote ---

Ahh so you are actually 240v centre tapped.
I got that bit right then just the wrong voltages lol

I am suprised to hear you have appliances that are both 240v and 120v thats quite mind boggling to me haha.

Thanks for the info though, Its interesting to know how other countries work in that respect.

I believe you guys call 3 phase poly-phase over there?

I have worked on lots of European and Japanese equipment but never American.

Thats mostly because I have worked for 2 different Japanese companies though.

They have different voltages again, They use 200v 3 phase for industrial equipment.

Always had to be very careful at the first place I worked as we had both 415v and 200v distribution systems!
Then we had other stuff that was neither and had to be run from local transformers lol.

Although as evidenced by this thread domestic wiring has the potential to be just as confusing!!

Titchgamer:

--- Quote from: Robbbert on August 23, 2020, 09:52:14 am ---So many differences between countries. Here in Australia the active and neutral come from the power grid which is common to a neighbourhood (no individual transformers). The neutral is earthed in each house's meter box, to make the M.E.N. (multiple-earthed-neutral) system. This ensures that each house has the correct 240 volts with respect to earth, to counter drift due to the resistance of long supply wires.

Please turn off the power (fuse or circuit-breaker) before touching your house wiring. 110 volts might make you dance a little, but 240 can throw you to the ground or even kill. Be sensible.

As for wiring colours, we used to have red for active, black for neutral and green for ground. Then they changed it to brown, blue, and green with a yellow stripe.

--- End quote ---

We use the same system for the most part except we call it PME (protective multiple earths).
Its also called TN-C-S but that leads down a whole other patch of discussion in relation to TT and TN-S systems which is largely irrelevant lol

DaOld Man:
As far as industrial, we have 3 phase Y and 3 phase Delta. (I think its called poly phased too, but I never heard that phrase much.)

Some appliances that require both 240 and 120 are such things as clothes dryers (heat element is 240, motor is 120), and some stoves (eyes are 120 and oven 240, however these oven setups like that have become non existent. Most stoves are all 240 parts.)

Our hots coming in are fused in the panel (breaker or old houses may still have dual "main " fuses.)
The panel splits the hots into two busses, so that each branch comes off one buss for 120 volts, or two busses for 240.
The neutral has a buss set aside for neutrals and another for grounds. Ground buss is attached to the metal frame or can of the breaker panel. The ground wire from the ground rod attaches to the ground bus, as do all the branch circuit ground wires.
In the first breaker panel, the neutral buss attaches to the ground buss. (Usually a green screw you put in the buss that bonds it to the frame of the panel.
Some older panels have only a neutral buss and all branch neutrals and grounds attach to it, as does the ground rod and the frame of the panel.
If you have a shed or out building or garage with a breaker panel installed in it, code calls for the ground and neutral buss to be separate in that panel. (At least my local code requires it.
So you have to run 4 wires to the shed, unless it only has 120 volts, then 3 wires.
My shed has a 55 amp 8 circuit breaker panel in it. I ran 4 wires underground to the house and tied to a 50 amp breaker in the main panel. I also drove a ground rod at the shed and attached it to the ground buss in the shed panel. My shed has metal siding, so i also grounded it at one point.
Grounding is very important, not just for safety from shocks, but also to supply a good path for lightning to get to ground.
I grew up in the 60's. When a lightning storm would come up mom would tell us to go pull the main fuses on the fuse box cause lightning may run in and set the house on fire.
We didnt know then, but I later learned in life that the lightning comes in on the ground wire, and pulling the mains does not open the neutral wire coming in, so that precaution Mom would have us do was pretty much pointless.

Side note: Anyone like to know how a GFCI breaker or outlet works? Or have I rambled enough?

Titchgamer:

--- Quote from: DaOld Man on August 23, 2020, 10:42:46 am ---As far as industrial, we have 3 phase Y and 3 phase Delta. (I think its called poly phased too, but I never heard that phrase much.)

Some appliances that require both 240 and 120 are such things as clothes dryers (heat element is 240, motor is 120), and some stoves (eyes are 120 and oven 240, however these oven setups like that have become non existent. Most stoves are all 240 parts.)

Our hots coming in are fused in the panel (breaker or old houses may still have dual "main " fuses.)
The panel splits the hots into two busses, so that each branch comes off one buss for 120 volts, or two busses for 240.
The neutral has a buss set aside for neutrals and another for grounds. Ground buss is attached to the metal frame or can of the breaker panel. The ground wire from the ground rod attaches to the ground bus, as do all the branch circuit ground wires.
In the first breaker panel, the neutral buss attaches to the ground buss. (Usually a green screw you put in the buss that bonds it to the frame of the panel.
Some older panels have only a neutral buss and all branch neutrals and grounds attach to it, as does the ground rod and the frame of the panel.
If you have a shed or out building or garage with a breaker panel installed in it, code calls for the ground and neutral buss to be separate in that panel. (At least my local code requires it.
So you have to run 4 wires to the shed, unless it only has 120 volts, then 3 wires.
My shed has a 55 amp 8 circuit breaker panel in it. I ran 4 wires underground to the house and tied to a 50 amp breaker in the main panel. I also drove a ground rod at the shed and attached it to the ground buss in the shed panel. My shed has metal siding, so i also grounded it at one point.
Grounding is very important, not just for safety from shocks, but also to supply a good path for lightning to get to ground.
I grew up in the 60's. When a lightning storm would come up mom would tell us to go pull the main fuses on the fuse box cause lightning may run in and set the house on fire.
We didnt know then, but I later learned in life that the lightning comes in on the ground wire, and pulling the mains does not open the neutral wire coming in, so that precaution Mom would have us do was pretty much pointless.

Side note: Anyone like to know how a GFCI breaker or outlet works? Or have I rambled enough?

--- End quote ---

GFCI I am guessing is your equivalent of a RCD for us?
Device that measures current going down the live/hot and returning down the Neutral looking for any earth leagage?

Poor OP his thread has been totally derailed by international sparkies lol

Sorry :p

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