Newbie questions

[TheShanMan]

1... I've had a mame cab for many years and finally switched from a PC monitor to a D9800 multisync (CGA up to SVGA). I recently bought an arcadevga but apparently it's defective and Andy is totally out of stock (discontinued) so replacement isn't an option. I've seen GroovyMAME and Soft15khz are alternatives. I get the impression that GroovyMAME is what people use these days and Soft15khz has fallen out of favor/not actively developed. Is that right? Are there any other alternatives I should consider?

2... I'm not loving the idea of running a non standard mame exe, but I gather that's just how it goes if I want to use emudriver. I'm especially not excited about changing to a new version of mame and updating roms since I've got a 100% working setup right now and I haven't touched it in quite a few years (I'm currently running mostly 0.128). I'm just not looking forward to opening up a can of worms of work involved, but it is what it is. I gather I won't have much choice in the matter? Or is there an alternative to groovymame that's worth considering in 2020 and wouldn't require me to mess with my mame version and rom set?

3... I only run MAME and Daphne. I don't imagine I'll be able to run Daphne games in the original video modes, will I? Or is there at least a command line way to set the video mode which could be called right before daphne?

4... From what I can tell, with XP I'd have to use emudriver 1.2b. What am I sacrificing by using 1.2b instead of 2.0? (aside from time involved, my main reluctance to upgrade to a newer version of Windows is that I don't think custom boot screens are possible starting with Windows 7)

5... My mame cab is running XP 32 bit. What pcie card will give me the best bang for the buck? Looking for best combination of availability, price, and good functionality in groovymame. A card that also allow me to upgrade to a newer version of Windows if I ever decide to do that would be a bonus. I get the impression that the options that work in XP and newer versions of windows are very limited. Just the HD 4xxx series? Would I be better off just going with an XP-only card and if I ever upgrade the OS, get another card at that point?

6... My D9800 is mounted horizontally, so will vertical games run at a semi-native resolution? For instance what resolution would donkey kong run in given its 256x224 resolution? Would it be something like 341x256?

7... I use multimame so Mala will include daphne games in the same game list as mame. Would there be any problem with using multimame as an intermediary with groovymame and daphne? (for those that might not be aware, multimame is a multi emulator command line launcher, so mala would launch multimame, which would then launch groovymame or daphne).

Appreciate any help in coming up to speed on this stuff!

[Zebidee]

TheShanMan, welcome back. The scene has changed a lot in the last few years.

First up, CRT_emudriver (driver you need for 15khz from PC) is different to Groovymame. It is just a video card driver. But both CRT_EMU and Groovymame are developed by Calamity, and Groovymame (which is awesome) is designed to take max advantage of CRT_emudriver. So typically you will run both at the same time. However, there is nothing to stop you from running other programs and emulators etc as well.

Soft15khz is old, not developed anymore, might not even work in Win7. SailorSat did wonderful things with that for the retrogaming community, but CRT_EMU is better - even if you want to run XP.

Speaking of XP, there is no real reason to go with that either. Latest Mame and Groovymame probably won't even run on it without hacks. I know this because I'm running XPx64 on several older PCs/cards for arcade machines and am painfully aware of the limitations.

Win7 is a better choice moving forward. A lot of video cards to choose from. Will run latest Mame/Groovymame/CRT_EMU. Will also run Daphne AFAIK.

Hopefully your Mala would work in Win7 properly, interested to know if there are any issues there.

[TheShanMan]

Thanks for the reply!

Ideally, I'd like to ease my way into this, so let's see if this is reasonable...

I'd like to stick with XP for now, and add emudriver 1.2b. If older versions of groovymame are available, particularly 0.128, I could give that a try, but you also seem to be suggesting I could stick with standard mame and still get the right video modes? What would be the disadvantage(s) of running standard mame?

If I can avoid upgrading mame and most importantly, my rom set, at least for now, that will make it much easier to start down this path. Heck, I've been out of the loop so long now I don't have the slightest clue what the best way to get full rom sets is anymore (and I know asking the question is a no-no). I remember the "good old days" of full rom set sites appearing and disappearing, torrents, usenet downloads. Haha! I don't miss the effort that went into ensuring I had a 100% correct rom set for a given mame version.

I see that some cards (Radeon X600 for instance) are dirt cheap, so I wouldn't mind getting an XP only card for now, and consider upgrading OS later if I decide that would be a worthwhile endeavor. So any particular recommendations for XP cards? Or does it essentially not matter as long as the card is supported by emudriver?

The only other remaining question is how vertical games on a horizontal monitor are handled in terms of video modes?

[Zebidee]

I'd like to stick with XP for now, and add emudriver 1.2b. If older versions of groovymame are available, particularly 0.128, I could give that a try,...

If you're dead-set on staying with XP I understand that as I've done it too. Just saying I've trod that path already and seen that the ultimate end-point is Win7, unless you want to stick with an obsolete and unsupported system.

If building a new system, I'd suggest that you do a dual-boot install with XP & Win7, to make later upgrades easier.

I have a hacked version of Groovymame 0.200 I rolled myself running on my XP64 machine with a Radeon X1050. You would want to look at Haynor666's thread on Groovymame custom builds for XP:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154799.0.html

... but you also seem to be suggesting I could stick with standard mame and still get the right video modes? What would be the disadvantage(s) of running standard mame?

There are no advantages I can think of for running standard MAME. Once you have your Groovymame setup right, there is no more worrying about the "right video modes", Groovymame just does all that for you to give you the best results. No more tediousness going through games individually to see if they look right. That's right, [romname].ini files will (almost) be a thing of the past! You can always override GM's selections with a [romname].ini file, but usually there is no need.

As GM matches emulated refresh rates to the original game refresh rates, you'll find gameplay much smoother and you'll be wondering how you managed to get by with boring standard MAME for so long. Groovymame is awesome.

I see that some cards (Radeon X600 for instance) are dirt cheap, so I wouldn't mind getting an XP only card for now, and consider upgrading OS later if I decide that would be a worthwhile endeavor. So any particular recommendations for XP cards? Or does it essentially not matter as long as the card is supported by emudriver?

The Radeon X*** cards are only supported by XP, not Win7. They are also really old and don't support some of the latest MAME 3D rendering requirements, so there is another layer of obsolescence to worry about. If you want the optional upgrade path to Win7, you might want to choose another card that is supported by both OS's.

The only other remaining question is how vertical games on a horizontal monitor are handled in terms of video modes?

Groovymame will do the best that it can, according to the modes available and your monitor.

[TheShanMan]

There are no advantages I can think of for running standard MAME. Once you have your Groovymame setup right, there is no more worrying about the "right video modes", Groovymame just does all that for you to give you the best results. No more tediousness going through games individually to see if they look right. That's right, [romname].ini files will (almost) be a thing of the past! You can always override GM's selections with a [romname].ini file, but usually there is no need.

As GM matches emulated refresh rates to the original game refresh rates, you'll find gameplay much smoother and you'll be wondering how you managed to get by with boring standard MAME for so long. Groovymame is awesome.

Okay, so then I can start with just emudriver and do sort of a proof of concept to see the benefits for myself, and then go the GM route when my understanding is better and I'm ready to make the leap.

The Radeon X*** cards are only supported by XP, not Win7. They are also really old and don't support some of the latest MAME 3D rendering requirements, so there is another layer of obsolescence to worry about. If you want the optional upgrade path to Win7, you might want to choose another card that is supported by both OS's.

Okay, so from what I can tell the HD 4xxx series would be the only option that'll work with XP and 7+, according to the supported cards list at http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295 (2.0) and http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=65 (1.2b). Am I interpreting that right?

Thanks again!

[keilmillerjr]

Groovymame is a patched version of mame. It has a few extra cli params and options in mame.ini. It can act without switchres, but why would you want to?

Why insist on win xp? Hardware extremely old? Try GroovyArcade (collaborative). GA is already set up for CRT. An SSD will make an old PC have pep, and they are cheap now. 250gb is enough for all killer ROMs.

Lots of awesome changes has happened with mame. Check the mame dev blog.

Get the highest CRT emudriver compatible card you can find within your budget. Second hand eBay is a great option.

[Zebidee]

Okay, so then I can start with just emudriver and do sort of a proof of concept to see the benefits for myself, and then go the GM route when my understanding is better and I'm ready to make the leap.

Yeah, except you'll find is less of a leap, more like a baby step you barely even realise you're taking. Probably the hardest thing will be deleting all those now-useless [romname].ini files.

Okay, so from what I can tell the HD 4xxx series would be the only option that'll work with XP and 7+, according to the supported cards list at http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295 (2.0) and http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=65 (1.2b). Am I interpreting that right?

Looks to be so - and in fact I have a dual-boot XP64/Win7 machine with a HD4650 in it in my main arcade cab right now. Running XP64 so far, but Win7 is coming...

To me, the HD4650 the colours seem a little dull compared to other cards, so I tweaked the colour "temperature" up a little to 6500k or 7000k (via the Catalyst CC software) before installing CRTEMU and it looks great.

You might even just get whatever card for XP, and maybe grab a newer card for Win7 when you want to make that leap. By that time setting up CRT_EMU should be easy for you, and suitable video cards pretty cheap.

GroovyArcade seems like an excellent option for a dedicated MAME-CRT machine. My reason to stick with windows is that there are other emulators, games & music that I like to play as well. Now I'm thinking about it, I should probably try GroovyArcade for my vertical cab (as I only run Groovymame on that anyway).