Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)  (Read 2621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« on: July 08, 2020, 05:13:15 pm »
I built a cable from VGA to arcade monitor with connetions in image attachment.
I bought a Radeon HD5450 PCI-E card and connected to arcade monitor with the cable, CA&G VI2100 15khz monitor.
I patched the linux kernel 5.6 with 15khz video patches and configured boot grub and xorg.conf.
After the boot I can hear the sound but always without image.
I checked a lot of time the cable pinout but I can confirm that is OK.
What can I check for the video output problem?

buttersoft

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1758
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 09:44:54 pm
  • Is running at 15kHz
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 02:37:14 am »
If you have an LCD or other VGA monitor capable of 15kHz you could try plugging it in. In fact, even if your LCD is not 15kHz capable, plug it in anyway and see what gives - it'll tell you "out of range" if the signal is 15kHz. You can also put a multimeter on each sync line and check the frequency it's outputting. V-sync should be ~60Hz presumably, and H-sync should be 15kHz.

After that, does your monitor have the ability to take separate H- and V-sync at 15kHz, or does it want Composite-sync? (Just because it says V-sync at one input doesn't automatically mean it works, the same PCB might have variants). Are there any jumpers or switches to affect this on the chassis? How about voltage tolerance? What voltage are you outputting sync at? VGA is TTL level sync, or a 5V square wave. And what RGB level does the monitor want? Most arcade monitors want about 1.5Vp-p or higher, and VGA is only 0.7Vp-p. The image would often be dim, but maybe it's not showing up. What happens when you turn up the screen pot with the PC connected, does any image appear, or just the slanted retrace lines over a grey screen? Leaving those lines slightly visible, does plug and unplugging the video change anything? And plugging and unplugging either or both sync lines alone?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 02:41:00 am by buttersoft »

mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 03:37:50 am »
Yes I have a separate H- and V-sync at 15kHz. I didn't see any jumpers or switches. I connected same sync in pin 6, H sync, but always without immage. I tried boot with "GroovyArcade live-CD New Release 2020" and all option (VGA-X of course) boot but always black sceen.
I think is a voltage problem.
In attachment the board manual.

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2020, 06:01:14 am »
Try connecting VGA pin 10 (sync ground) to the ground wire
Check out my completed projects!


mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 06:39:59 am »
I tried to connect 5 and 10 pin together (VGA side) and then to the ground (CGA side) but same result. No video image.
Maybe is it a low voltage on RGB vga side? from monitor manual the video signal vpp should be 2-5 vpp

buttersoft

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1758
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 09:44:54 pm
  • Is running at 15kHz
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 06:49:48 am »
Good idea there, Zeb, I didn't think of that. Normally the VGA grounds are all connected, so i'm going to fall flat one day presuming that :)

mjnman, I would suggest going through the other ideas in my post above. Have you even tried to prove the computer is delivering a 15kHz video mode? And if so, how?

After that, yes, the video is meant to be 2V - what happens when you turn up the G2 screen pot on the flyback with your video signal connected and try the other stuff i suggested above? Anything?

The sync is meant to be 1.5-5Vp-p so you're probably fine with VGA there.

That said, a video amp would help here, to either fix things or rule out these particular issues.

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2020, 08:49:10 am »
That said, a video amp would help here, to either fix things or rule out these particular issues.

I'll double-down on buttersoft's suggestion to use a video amp. Even if it doesn't solve your current problems, it'll rule issues out and you should get one anyway. Image will be dark at best without it.

Ultimarc sell them for US$23, includes a quality male-male VGA cable. Been a while since I've ordered from them, but delivery was always fast (even UK-Australia) via DHL. This is an important consideration as international economy mail is taking forever these days (as they often put them on passenger planes, and COVID has grounded most of those planes).

https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-vga-and-video/arcadevga-accessories/arcade-monitor-video-amplifier/
Check out my completed projects!


mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 03:59:08 pm »
I'm sorry buttersoft but I don't know how check the 15khz output sync because I do not have a oscilloscope. I'ms using only a multimeter.  :notworthy:
I used "GroovyArcade 2020" live image and boot with VGA-1 and I saw the configuration image after increased the G2 in the arcade monitor.
Now I'm going to try to understand the problem with options in my debian 10 configuration 15khz patch and xorg.
Thanks guys

P.S. the VGA to CGA cable cabling is it's always been ok.

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 09:44:34 pm »
I used "GroovyArcade 2020" live image and boot with VGA-1 and I saw the configuration image after increased the G2 in the arcade monitor.

Cool, you just need to grab a video amp and then you can turn the G2 back down :D
Check out my completed projects!


buttersoft

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1758
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 09:44:54 pm
  • Is running at 15kHz
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 12:31:22 am »
Good to hear that worked.

Most multimeters have a Hz/CPS setting. Given you're using separate sync, you could connect it to either sync line and measure the frequency coming through. If you ever need to now :)

mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2020, 05:18:08 pm »
Last question...the cable working correctly but there is a little color flicker when with GBS-8100 VGA-CGA the color is stable.
Could be a VPP problem? I could see the flicker only with direct VGA output to CGA monitor.
I was thinking to build a video amplifier i.e. -> http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/vga2arc/vga2arc.htm
could be this a good solution for the issue?
thanks

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2020, 09:26:36 pm »
I was thinking to build a video amplifier i.e. -> http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/vga2arc/vga2arc.htm
could be this a good solution for the issue?
thanks

You could build it yourself - I'm sure I could do it with parts on-hand, maybe you could too, but I'd spend at least a full day doing it when there are other things to do. The real question: is it worth doing? Buying quality product from Ultimarc for $23 a lot easier, and that includes VGA cable ($5-$10 value already). There might be cheaper varieties online ebay/amazon etc. but I can't vouch for them.
Check out my completed projects!


mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2020, 02:38:25 am »
thank you for the answer. my real question is. Can i resolve the issue if i'll build myself or buy cable/adaptor?

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2020, 12:41:10 pm »
Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Check out my completed projects!


mjnman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Last login:November 18, 2022, 10:41:22 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 05:19:42 pm »
I built the video amplifier but the problem it's the same. I saw only more brighter but there is always the flickering.
I tried to force VGA output without interlaced I the pictures was clean!!!
So, I configured groovymame with switchres and now I have a very good immage in game.
The problem is in the selection menu because use a interlaced modo with 640x480 and there is a little image flickering.
I cannt set XORG without interlaced because the maximun vres is 288 and the menù is suck

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3227
  • Last login:March 16, 2024, 11:56:34 pm
Re: PC to arcade monitor without image (Radeon HD5450)
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2020, 08:04:00 pm »
I built the video amplifier but the problem it's the same. I saw only more brighter but there is always the flickering.
...
The problem is in the selection menu because use a interlaced modo with 640x480 and there is a little image flickering.

CGA monitors will always be "flickering" in interlaced modes - to get the extra vertical lines the screen has to be drawn twice, thus the image is effectively at 30hz rather than 60hz and your eyes can just detect the slower refresh rate. Some monitors seem to be more flickery than others, but they all do it. It is always more obvious in windows and menu screen as they have lots of horizontal lines. Flicker is usually barely noticeable on fast moving games and normal video output, thus most old TVs used interlacing by default. Mostly retrogamers try to use progressive modes (non-interlaced) for games and learn to tolerate the flickering interlaced modes for menus/windows.

So, I configured groovymame with switchres and now I have a very good immage in game.

This is the main thing, looks like you have it mostly sorted out  :cheers:
Check out my completed projects!