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Author Topic: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)  (Read 20195 times)

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Ropi Jo

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Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« on: June 20, 2020, 09:12:37 am »
Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT

Hi. Please can I ask the simplest way of going about this?

My set up is as follows...

Mame 220

Mala 174

Win7 64

Semi auto rotating CRT.

The CRT rotates electrically with a one touch button. Touch the other button and it rotates back again. Once rotation starts both buttons are locked out until the rotation finishes. If power is cut during rotation then on re-powering either button can be activated to rotate to H or V. I want to keep it this way rather than have a prog control the rotation.

But what I also want is for Mala to stay in the rotated state of the last game played.

So, for example, if I am H, and I scroll through the Mala games list, and pick a V game, I want Mala to change the game to V, and I'll rotate the CRT with the button. When I exit that game I don't want Mala to go back to H. If I then select a H game, obviously I want Mala to give me the game in H, and I'll hit the button and rotate the CRT to H. When I exit that game I want Mala to stay H, and so on........

Can somebody please point me to where and what I set for this?

Thank you.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 11:35:49 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2020, 09:22:08 am »
While I canít help you on this question, Iíd be very interested to see your setup.  Got pics, or even better, video?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2020, 09:35:57 am »
Hi. Thanks for your interest.

The build is almost complete (apart from some of the extra CPs I'm planning). I just need to get the software finalised and I will put a vid on here showing the rotation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 04:25:44 am »
I thought this would be an easy one for somebody that's done it before who would say "Just set This to That and That to This".

I know it's a do-able task as I've seen in Youtube vids where Mala stays V when exiting a V game and stays H when exiting a H game, but with a prog (possibly Mrotate) doing the rotate, and possibly telling Mala what orientation to use.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2020, 08:19:07 am »
I thought this would be an easy one for somebody that's done it before

Iíd reach out to Da Old Man.  He created mrotate and has helped with many rotation projects in the past. Looks like he hasnít logged in since April 28th.  Perhaps sending him a PM might cause him to respond.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2020, 09:57:30 am »
He does seen to be the man to ask. I'll try PMing him. maybe his phone will go PING!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 10:50:00 am »
Hi Ropi Jo, I got your message, thanks for reaching out to me, I really needed to get back on here anyway, to catch up on all the cool projects.
I wrote a program a while back to do this. It is called malaori
It uses switches to tell the PC which orientation it is in on startup of malaori.
It then starts mala in the matching orientation.
You will need a printer port for this.  Also you will need inpout64.dll, downloadable free. But I have not had a lot of luck getting inpout to work on 64 bit.
I also started a thread on here that outlines malaori, if I can find it I will post it here.
If you dont have a printer port, I may be able to modify malaori to read a 9 pin comport instead.
You will also need two switches that tie back to the port. i would highly recommend keeping your current circuit separate from your pc port, so you may have to add two more switches. (H and V)
If you can post pics or wiring diagrams of your project that would be great.
Anyway, here is malaori. It is zipped, if you need it in a different format (BYOAC wont let me post exe files), let me know.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2020, 10:53:50 am »
Looks like the search engine is having a problem, so I cant find the thread about malaori. Maybe Scott can help.
If I find it later I will post the link here.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2020, 11:22:49 am »
I cant find the thread about malaori. Maybe Scott can help.
I can with that keyword and knowing that it's one of your posts.   ;D
- Under the author's profile, click on "show posts".
- Use find (Ctrl-F or F3 in many browsers) and find next (Ctrl-G in many browsers) to see if the keyword is on that page of post results.
- If you don't find what you're looking for, go to the next page of results and find next. (Ctrl-G)

Original malaori thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,97107.0.html

File Repository: http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=3585

Recent thread about malaori: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156512.0.html


Scott
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:29:17 am by PL1 »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 11:37:39 am »
Thanks PL1. you are da man.
Ropi Jo, you might want to read through those threads before embarking on this mission.
Also, i have been thinking, and instead of using the printer port, it may be possible to use two inputs on your keyboard encoder, if you have the spare inputs.
Let me know if you would like me to modify malaori to read keyboard instead of printer port to get monitor orientation.
I dont know why I didnt include this option in the original, could be I was wondering what effect the input always being on would have when reading it as a keyboard key.
One of those switches would be on all the time and could create some kind of "stuck key" error on windows.
Let me know if you want to pursue this.
thanks for your interest and good luck.

(DaOld Man crawls out of his tomb, dusts himself off, and says "wheres the beer?" LOL)

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2020, 11:49:15 am »
Thanks so much for this. My MOBO almost certainly does not have the printer port. It's a Dell I5. But I'll check tonight and let you know. There are spare inputs on the JPAC, the OPTIPAC and the APAC, all permanently connected. If I could any of these that would be great.

I'll have a good read through the threads Scott linked to.

And there I was thought this would be simple.

Cheers Chaps.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2020, 11:58:29 am »
Yeah, the printer port was going out of style back when I did this project (2009), but most motherboards still had it then.
I will see what I can do with using keyboard inputs.
However the windows stuck key may be a problem, but maybe not.
At least you wont need inpout with that, which like I said is very hard to get to work on 64 bit. At least it was last time I tried to work with it.
I will post it for you to test when I finish it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 12:05:58 pm »
Top Man. Thank you so much.

I am using end stops for the rotate. Can't remember if they are NO of NC. I assume these are used by malaori (or maybe a relay from these to switch the IP of the jPac.) I can rig a timer relay to these to avoid the windows stuck key if that helps. Got loads of timer relays.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 12:17:00 pm »
Thanks PL1. you are da man.
Glad to assist.   ;D

One of those switches would be on all the time and could create some kind of "stuck key" error on windows.
Maybe run the grounds for those two switches through the COM-NC contacts of a time-delay relay?
- System powers on ==> relay is on for a few seconds which interrupts the ground for those two switches long enough for windows to register those keys as not pressed.
- By the time mala starts, the relay is off and ground is reconnected to the switches.

I am using end stops for the rotate. Can't remember if they are NO of NC. I assume these are used by malaori (or maybe a relay from these to switch the IP of the jPac.) I can rig a timer relay to these to avoid the windows stuck key if that helps. Got loads of timer relays.
Depending on how you wire things, it may be better to have separate orientation and endstop switches.   :dunno


Scott

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 12:18:09 pm »
Would something as simple as iRotate work?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 02:20:03 pm »
OK. Just checked my wiring. My end stops are NC, so open when the mech hits them. But I have a NO spare on each so can take that and fire a timer relay to do almost anything... single shot, set single shot pulse duration, set continual pulsing, etc.

And... my MOBO does not have a printer port. Doesn't even have a PS2 for keyboard or mouse.

I would put some pics but struggling with that. Must be a guide on here somewhere.

I will check malaori and iRotate ASAP.

Thanks again.



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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2020, 03:01:49 pm »
Somehow I managed to upload a pic so I'll try some more...

Please remember this is work in progress...




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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2020, 03:05:42 pm »
My end stops are NC, so open when the mech hits them. But I have a NO spare on each so can take that and fire a timer relay to do almost anything... single shot, set single shot pulse duration, set continual pulsing, etc.
What I meant is that if you have the motor/actuator voltage running through the limit switches like this example, you would need to run the keyboard encoder inputs through two other switches. (not shown)

Mixing the motor/actuator voltage and the keyboard encoder inputs is not a good idea.   ;)




Scott
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 03:12:43 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2020, 03:33:10 pm »
I think I'm with you on that Scott.

I've got 24V running the rotate elecs, so at the end of the rotate I would get 24V on the NO. This could operate a relay that would make any switch on the JPAC via the relay's no volt contact. The 2 circuits would be isolated from each other.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2020, 04:01:15 pm »
I've got 24V running the rotate elecs, so at the end of the rotate I would get 24V on the NO. This could operate a relay that would make any switch on the JPAC via the relay's no volt contact. The 2 circuits would be isolated from each other.
Yeah, that makes sense.   :cheers:

Two regular relays -- one controlled by the NO of one limit switch and the other controlled by the NO of the other limit switch -- and one time-delay rely to interrupt those two JPAC input grounds during boot to avoid a Windows "stuck key" error.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2020, 05:32:09 pm »
So, all I need now is a prog to run on the cab from DaOldMan to tell Mala which orientation?...... no pressure of course.

I had a look at iRotate, as suggested by Arroyo. It rotated the windows desktop no probs, but with Mala running it rotated but only gave half the screen. Very odd. 

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 07:24:05 pm »
Ive been working on MalaoriK, for keyboard. Ironing out a few bugs, hopefully will be ready in a day or two.
Mala is kinda particular how it works. Malaori actually changes the setup file for Mala to vert or horz then starts mala.
I will send it to you when Im ready, you can beta test it for me.
Once all bugs are ironed out and you pass it, I will post it here in case anyone else wants to use it.
You really need to think about automating that rotating rig, which is impressive I might add.
But doing it automatically is the cats meow.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 10:23:50 pm »
Ok, here is my first beta version.
If anyone downloads this, please be aware it is in beta mode, but if youd like to test it I would appreciate it.
I will upload any improvements or changes as they come.
You will need to take mala out of start with windows mode, and add this program to start when windows does.
That option is in the program, but I havent tested it yet, it worked on old version so should still work.

I still need to put a timer in it so if neither input is made after X milliseconds, it will use default orientation . Right now first screen stays up until you click exit or setup.
First splash screen will disappear if it sees one of the inputs, or it is the first run (no malaori.ini file), or you can run setup by changing this line in malaori.ini: Run setup mode = no, to: Run setup mode = yes, then run malaori.

I will remove the previous beta version and attach latest to thread below. Only need one download link to avoid confusion.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:41:33 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2020, 10:34:25 pm »
Ok, fixed one issue with the auto start with windows option. Had to change the registry name from MalaOri to MalaOrik, to match the new exe name.
Found another instance where I had to change to malaorik for auto startup.
Please download this one again if you already did.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:48:51 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 10:48:34 pm »
Added timer to splash screen. if no input within 1 second it will start mala in default mode. (Default mode selected in settings)

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2020, 04:37:55 am »
You are a great guy to do this. And so fast!

I will d/l this later after work and get my son to help me as all this computer stuff goes over my head.

Regarding automating, what would you suggest considering my current setup?

I have Mala 174,

Mame 220

Win 7 64

No printer port


All I need is any logic o/p as the system currently is 1 touch buttons. Any basic logic o/p can take the place of my buttons. But where to get this o/p?

At the end of each rotation I hit the manual degaus, but this is not ideal. My switch interrupts the supply the PTC so after a degaus the PTC still needs about 3-4 minutes before it will operate again. I really need to be  supplying the degaus coils directly (i would guess through a suitable resistor) for an automated 1-2 second degaus at the end of each rotation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2020, 09:28:07 am »
MRotate would do all that, plus have the option to degauss by activating a relay, the relay would activate the degauss by shorting out the monitors degauss button or however it degausses now.
However Mrotate uses the printer port. You can get around that by installing a cheap printer port card in your PC, however, you have 64 bit and as I said, i gave up trying to get mrotate to work with 64 bit.
I was working on using Mrotate with a USB I/O card instead of printer port, but thats been a while back and I never completed it.
I would use what you have for now, but keep thinking about doing it automatically. It helps to study up and do a ton of research before you jump into tearing stuff out.
Someone on here may have already developed what you need.
The beauty of using the printer port is that it has 8 outputs and 4 inputs, perfect for rotating monitors in an arcade cab. But ... oh well.
Something I thought of last night, Malaori only works for mala start up, so if you move the monitor between games, mala will not change orientation. One way around this is to place another button to tell mala to change rotation. There is a keyboard button you can assign to tell mala to rotate, but maybe you already have this covered? There is a plugin that does all this automatically, but it is designed to activate Mrotate (or another program), that turns the monitor based on game orientation. It is a plugin I wrote for Mala called startcom. It sets up Mala screen orientation and sends a command to Mrotate to turn H or V, based on the games original orientation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2020, 10:17:34 am »
Loads to read up and think about. Thanks for all your help guys. I will report back how I end up running.  :cheers:

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2020, 04:01:51 pm »
Well, I loaded malaoriK and it does exactly what DaOldMan said it would do. It starts Mala in the orientation of the key input mapped to the end stops.

For me, unfortunately, I don't think it's going to address my needs. It doesn't account for switching Mala orientation between games without quitting Mala and restarting with the CRT in the orientation required, and reading back DaOldMan does state that quite clearly.

Mrotate, I believe, does do this, but I'd need to get a printer port card and change to W7 32.

Life is a b*tch.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2020, 04:09:48 pm »
actually, Mrotate does not do that. Startcom plugin will.
Maybe try that? 

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2020, 04:23:45 pm »
startcom is a mala plugin.
When a game is selected to run (from mala), it reads the games orientation from the xml file and passes that to startcom, startcom then starts the program used to control the rotation motor.
Then it handles mala screen positioning, etc.
Startcom has to reference a program to call, but I dont see why you cant just call a bat file that really does nothing.

example: create a file at C: called junk.bat
with nothing in it except maybe an echo command.

From startcom, you would call c:\junk.bat

commands could be any thing, such as h for horizontal or v for vertical.
You would still have to press your button to do the actual turning, but the mala problem should be solved.
And you wont need any extra switches.
But if you want mala to start in right orientation on boot up, you will need malaorik, and the switches, unless someone else has a better idea.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2020, 04:29:34 pm »
I was typimg this as you replied...

Please excuse my lack of understanding :-[

Looks like it's game on again

So... malaoriK sets mala in the correct ori at start.

and

startcom does the ori inbetween games.

It's over my head but I'll get my son to read that thread. It'll make sense to him

Thank you. Again!!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2020, 04:34:42 pm »
I was typimg this as you replied...

Please excuse my lack of understanding :-[

Looks like it's game on again

So... malaoriK sets mala in the correct ori at start.

and

startcom does the ori inbetween games.

It's over my head but I'll get my son to read that thread. It'll make sense to him

Thank you. Again!!

Sorry if I am flooding you with all this stuff.
But I think startcom will do what you want.
malaorik only if you care about mala being correct on bootup, yes.
I think I had a thread detailing startcom a lot more in the mala frontend forum, but Im having trouble finding it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2020, 04:45:43 pm »
This may be the thread I was talking about:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,91842.0.html

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2020, 06:53:58 pm »
That thread blew me away. I'm not even sure what language was being used.

Just to clarify...For Startcom I do or do not require a printer port and or W7 32?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2020, 07:24:18 pm »
delete that file I posted, here is the one you need. The previous file was the complete project, this one is the plugin. If you put any of that last file in your plugin folder, delete it.
Unzip this one and place it in the mala/plugins folder.
Then start mala, right click on it with your mouse, go to options/config, goto to plugins. click on startcom then click configure.
Enter your junk.bat file in the program to run box, and anything in the rotate commands

should unzip to startcom.mplugin

Man I had to clean out a lot of cobwebs to recall some of this stuff. LOL

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2020, 07:30:44 pm »
That thread blew me away. I'm not even sure what language was being used.

Just to clarify...For Startcom I do or do not require a printer port and or W7 32?

No, the printer port is to interface the rotation motor's drive to the computer.

Since you are just trying to get the mala screen to rotate, you shouldnt need anything else.
startcom is a mala plugin and doesnt do any of the outside work with hardware, thats what mrotate does.
Now if you decide to automatically rotate your screen, you will need I/O interface with the PC.
But I wouldnt worry about that unless you do decide to automate it.

Now, I have not tried using startcom without controlling the monitor rotation, but I dont see why it wouldnt work for what you want to do, as long as you call a program that really does nothing, such as your junk.bat file.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2020, 07:40:05 pm »
I must be loosing it!  I was searching old backups for the startcom plugin and the whole time it was already in the downloads section of this forum (Automated Projects).
I think it is a different version from the one I posted in this thread, so if that one dont work look in Downloads and download it from there.
I think you may have to rename it to startcom.mplugin after you unzip but not sure.
I really need a vacation! LOL

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 07:03:09 am »
Almost there!!!!

Startcom is great. It does what you said it would do. Thank you. It rotates Mala depending according to the game H or V. It was actually simpler to set up than I expected thanks to your excellent instructions.

Just one thing though... I have snaps for each game. In H mode, the snaps are all there. But Mala won't display the snap in V mode. I can still scroll the list and select a H game, and when I exit that game, Mala is in H mode, and the snaps are back. Any ideas? This a Mala thing, as it does this using the Mala command directly as well as through startcom.

I'm doing this on my test PC running widescreen LCD at high res. I notice when it rotates to V the display is off centre, so I'm thinking it's possibly to do with the resolutions? I'm off down to my cave to try rotating Mala on the real machine with snaps loaded and also installing Startcom down there as well.

UPDATE... the V screen is nice and central on the main rig so that's good, but still no snaps in V mode. I'll post this question in the Mala section as well as some peeps may not look here but may know the answer.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:46:36 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 10:05:18 am »
That rig looks very well built.  Iíd be curious to learn more about it.  If you get the energy for it, Iím sure the community would be very pleased to see a tutorial.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 10:40:27 am »
Thanks Arroyo. Nice of you to say.

When it's built, rather than WIP, I will try to add some info on how the mechanism works. Trouble is I can't use any PC design software so it's all on scrap paper and in whatever parts of my old brain still function.

The trouble with this build (2yrs +.... I think closer to 3 now) is that I don't know what I'm missing until I miss it.

Trying to crack it one bit at a time.

I'll sort out the auto degaus next. It's gonna give me the real hump if I have to open the coin door to hit the degaus button after every rotate.

Then... I'll move onto the analogue and optical CPs.

And anything else I think f along the way!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 11:32:27 am »
I think, from going back through years of threads in the Mala section, that I need a layout specifically for the vertical ori, and I need to tell Mala to switch layout when vertical. Does that sound right? That is probably beyond me to make that.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2020, 02:50:32 pm »
I agree, more pictures of your project would be great!
With your mala problem, make sure the paths to the snap files are correct.
I think you can set them up for each emulator.
And as far switching mala from horizontal to vertical and back, startcom will do all this for you, based on the game you select (press the start to run the game, the magic should happen then.).
But with your setup, you will still have to press the button to actually turn the monitor.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2020, 02:59:55 pm »
I agree, more pictures of your project would be great!
With your mala problem, make sure the paths to the snap files are correct.
I think you can set them up for each emulator.
And as far switching mala from horizontal to vertical and back, startcom will do all this for you, based on the game you select (press the start to run the game, the magic should happen then.).
But with your setup, you will still have to press the button to actually turn the monitor.

Hey Old Man.

The path to snaps is correct, as snaps display perfectly in H mode. Is there a seperate path for V mode? I couldn't see anything like that. Mame is the only emu installed ATM.

Startcom is working perfectly as well, and I just hit the button to rotate. All that is perfect.

It's just getting snaps to appear when it's vertical that's the issue.

I must say though that vertical shmups take on a whole new appeal when running on a 25" CRT in V mode, using 100% of the screen. The difference is amazing. Was never a V shmups fan.... till now!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 03:01:54 pm by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2020, 03:00:05 pm »
The picture you posted of the motherboard: I see a port labeled ???- serial If you have a serial port, it may be possible to use the version of mrotate that accesses the serial port instead of the printer port.
I think it will work on 64 bit, but I will need to test it to be sure, its been a while since I messed with it.
The port is on the motherboard and looks like maybe a 15 pin port (plug)? If you have the manual for the MB or can find one online you can probably find info on that port.
The reason I mention this is that you can automate your setup through the serial port, which offers two outputs and two inputs. Just have the outputs fire transistors that "short out" your current pushbuttons to start the rotation. Of course since there are limited outputs, this setup cannot handle the degaussing.
Let me know if you're interested.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2020, 03:03:10 pm »

Hey Old Man.

The path to snaps is correct, as snaps display perfectly in H mode. Is there a seperate path for V mode? I couldn't see anything like that.

Startcom is working perfectly as well, and I just hit the button to rotate. All that is perfect.

It's just getting snaps to appear when it's vertical that's the issue.

I must say though that vertical shmups take on a whole new appeal when running on a 25" CRT in V mode, using 100% of the screen. The difference is amazing. Was never a V shmups fan.... till now!

Yeah playing original vertical games on a vertical monitor is way better than horizontal.
I will have to research that problem with the snaps.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2020, 03:04:33 pm »
Absolutely "YES" I am interested.

It is a serial port and it is active. If I can use mRotate through that it would be awesome!!!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2020, 03:05:33 pm »
Absolutely "YES" I am interested.

It is a serial port and it is active. If I can use mRotate through that it would be awesome!!!

Give me a few days to dig up my project and test it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2020, 03:08:28 pm »
You are a Top Bloke.

There is no rush. I've got loads to get on with!

Thank you for all your help.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2020, 06:12:28 pm »
10 years ago this guy had snaps in Mala / Mame in H and V. A different layout though.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2020, 08:56:29 pm »
Yeah my H and V layouts work fine. You may need to check your layout make sure you have a snap window and not a video window. (I think you can have both so if video is present, snap will be covered by it.)

Anyway, i think I have Mrotate4 ready to try.
You need to check your motherboards manual and see if it has a DB9 comport connector or a DB25.
If you have both, use the DB9, if you only have the DB25will have to cross reference the pins from DB9 to DB25. Not as hard as it sounds, just juggling wires.
I would be surprised if you only have the DB25, because that is pretty old technology.
You will need a adapter cable to go from the DB connector on the motherboard to a comport connector. (9 or 25 pin).
If you want to risk plugging the wires on the proper pins on the motherboard you can, but I wouldnt advise it unless you are experienced. And use connectors made for those pins, such as breadboard jumpers.
Anyway, run this program and do setup first. Set which pins you are using for which output.
You want need the inputs so just leave them alone.
Set inputs to look for high when made.
Set timeouts for 1 second.
you can test this program without doing any wiring.
remember you cannot connect the comport pins directly to your current buttons. You will need transistors or optoisolators. I have a couple optoisolators I can give you if you pm me your mailing address.
Anyway, we can discuss circuits when you get to that point.
I have decided to store this file in the downloads thread in this forum (automated projects). Go there to download mrotate4. I will post any updates there.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 09:32:21 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2020, 12:03:11 pm »
Thank you. That was dam quick.

I will try to find out if it's DB9 or DB25. I don't know what that means or what the difference would be but the mobo  is only 4 yrs old so I'd guess it has the newer standard. I'll find out for sure.

I've got opto's and all manor of transistors  and low current relays for the switching. Think darlingtons may be the order of the day, but I'll have a think. Does the serial port give 5V or 12V output? Assume it's one of those as they are the main supplies to the mobo.

I'll check the prog does what we think it'll do (assuming I set things up right) and make a working circuit and then marry them up.

Regarding H and V snap issues, I've turnd off any mention in the config for video. And I'm using the default mala layout (the space invaders background). It's not been modified in any way.

I can't find any settings to make H and V behave differently. But if I had a seperate layout for H and V where would I tell Mala which one to use in H and V?

Is there any chance you can send me your mala layouts to try? I can't find anything to download and I know I could never make them.

All I want is a scrolling list with snaps. Nothing fancy at all.

I'm fine with electronics (I am a qualified TV / Video engineer and qualified electrician, albeit an old one who's forgotten most of what I learned) but computers have left me in the dark age.



« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 12:08:21 pm by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2020, 12:57:59 pm »
I thought that was a serial port on the mobo but it's not. It's the VGA. But, I've got a PCIE Serial card on it's way.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2020, 01:03:41 pm »
Started on the auto degaus today. Managed to grab a couple of hours in-between SWIMBOs 'jobs-for-the-weekend'.

Hope to have this part completed by the time the serial card arrives later in the week. Will update.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2020, 01:34:50 pm »
I thought that was a serial port on the mobo but it's not. It's the VGA. But, I've got a PCIE Serial card on it's way.

I thought there was a DIN male plug soldered to the motherboard labeled "something" serial. That wa sthe one I was speaking of. What is that motherboard make and model?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2020, 07:11:20 pm »
Don't know the make and model. but shouldn't need that. The serial card is a DB9 and will be here in a few days. I'll update then.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2020, 05:11:40 am »
I thought there was a DIN male plug soldered to the motherboard labeled "something" serial. That wa sthe one I was speaking of. What is that motherboard make and model?

I see it now. I looked up that connector and it requires a Dell expansion card that seems rarer than rocking horse sh*t and appears to be a rather flakey piece of kit anyway. The new card will be here soon.

The MOBO is a from a Dell 3020 desktop AFAIK
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 05:23:28 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2020, 01:52:07 am »
Fixed a couple of bugs. Download V 1.0.11 (in downloads section), and replace the one you have now with that one.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2020, 05:47:17 am »
Will do. Thank you.  :cheers:

Really looking forward to trying this.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2020, 07:36:25 am »
One problem I see is that when the PC boots up, the comport outputs blink a few times.
I cant solve this through the software. I had the same problem with the printer port, I solved it with hardware.
I found one printer port output that always came on and stayed on when the PC booted. I used a transistor triggered by this output to kill the other outputs paths to the drive until that one output was turned off.
MRotate always turns off all outputs when it starts, so that removed the kill when Mrotate was called.

Cant do that here since I only have two outputs.
So if it is a problem for you, you may be able to use a on delay timer that kills your current drive setup until enough time for the PC to fully boot.
You will just have to experiment to see what you can come up with.
On your setup now, what happens if you press both buttons at the same time?
A schematic drawing of what you have now would be nice, plus it might help others who want to go the rotation route.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2020, 08:12:38 am »
I can deal with any lockout delays required. Currently each rotate button is one touch. The system latches the button through relays and locks out the other button. As an added safety, in case the end stops fail, a timer cuts out the rotate 2 seconds after the end stop should have done it's job. Rotate takes around 12 seconds. 1st test took about 5 seconds but that was too fast and couldn't stop quick enough, so would have needed a slowdown. It was simpler to drop the motor voltage from 12V to 7.5V.

When this is all working I will do a write up with as much useful info as possible. It's the least I can do in return for all the great help here.

I'm on a few other furums which are great, but if you mention a mame cab there they all many will hold their noses in disgust.

I think mame is the greatest piece of software ever written, and anything that helps make the experience even greater is awesome.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 09:08:06 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2020, 12:40:27 pm »
This project resurrection has me thinking about finishing up the mrotate I was working on that used a USB pic chip to control the motor drive.
But what you are doing, I think the db9 version will work just fine, so I dont have to be in a hurry with the USB version.
The drawback to the usb one is that you must buy a pic chip board to get the real world I/O.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2020, 03:47:47 pm »
Got a bit further with the auto degaus this evening.

Still waiting for the serial board.

But going really crazy trying to get mala to show snaps in vertical orientation. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I've checked and changed every option in the mala config trying to make this work.

I've even reinstalled my old setup mame 151 32bit with mala 174 and I get exactly the same.

I'm using the standard layout that comes with mala.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 09:42:07 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2020, 04:38:47 pm »
Use malalayout app in the mala folder, open your vertical layout and make sure you have a snap window placed on it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2020, 06:22:28 am »
All getting closer. Serial card had arrived.

I tried to open the vertical layout in malalayout but it's not making much sense to me. I'll have to get my son to have a look.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2020, 07:42:35 am »
Two comports.
I made a tester that plugs into my comport, with two leds so I can monitor the outputs.
The outputs blink on power up, and also do a very quick blink on power down. But the card you bought may act different.
If it becomes a problem you can try the other port. It may act differently. (I only have the one port.)

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2020, 02:11:04 pm »
A very busy weekend doing the wife's chores.

I didn't get a chance to try Mrotate with the new serial card.

And didn't get a chance to finish the auto degaus circuit.

But this evening I came indoors from the garden (yard) to run a bath and asked my son to look at the H and V layouts in Mala. Showed him what the issue was and left him to it. Before my bath was run he'd fixed it. I now have snaps on H and V so very happy.

It's strange that all 4 downloads of Mala 174 (from various sources) and the Mala I downloaded about 7 yrs ago all have no snaps in V without making changes to the V layout.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2020, 05:20:47 pm »
More delays.

The wife's car got dragged home by a recovery truck today so that's my weekend plans screwed. So close!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2020, 01:10:02 pm »
Sorry about your wifes car.
I understand how life can get in the way of our hobbies.
Take your time, but dont forget to update us on any progress you make on your project.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2020, 05:59:19 pm »
As soon as progress is made I'll update.

At my age (and failing health) spending the entire weekend playing with cars is not my idea of fun. Actually got the wife's car sorted Saturday but as all the tools were out it made sense to get the outstanding work done on my old wreck as well. The sun was shining all weekend so it was a no brainer. Was pleased to go back to work today for a rest!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 06:00:50 pm by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2020, 06:59:59 pm »
Hope your project is coming along ok. Something you need to keep in mind about the comport outputs.
When "off" the pin actually goes negative around 12 volts to ground.
When "on" the pin is around positive 5 volts to ground.
Just keep this in mind. Its not a bad idea to use diodes to block the negative voltage.
If you isolate your circuit from the comport using optoisolators, you dont have to worry about it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2020, 06:29:21 pm »
Thanks for the heads-up old man.

No progress this weekend either as taking advantage of the fine weather again to do a bit more work on the car and some work on the front yard amongst some other chores.

After next week at work I've got a week's vacation booked (see... I'm learning your language). Just got the new exhaust to fit on the car and the rest of the week is mine!!! Hoping to get some good progress on the ROPI-CADE.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2020, 03:44:44 pm »
My apologies to the old man.

You've worked hard and fast to produce the software for me and I still have not got round to installing and testing it. I feel I'm letting you down.

I've just had a week vacation and have been doing home chores all through it. Not got anywhere near the ROPI-CADE.

Please don't think I've given up on this. Far from it. I've done all the essential home work here and finally I'm clear to start playing with my toys again.

I'm back to work tomorrow unfortunately (although looking forward to the rest) but should get some playtime in the evenings and all weekends, and I've got another week off late in August.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 07:59:48 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2020, 05:05:19 pm »
My apologies to the old man.

You've worked hard and fast to produce the software for me and I still have not got round to installing and testing it. I feel I'm letting you down.

I've just had a week vacation and have been doing home chores all through it. Not got anywhere near the ROPI-CADE.

Please don't think I've given up on this. Far from it. I've done all the essential home work here and finally I'm clear to start playing with my toys again.

I'm back to work tomorrow unfortunately (although looking forward to the rest) but should get some playtime in the evenings and all weekends, and I've got another week off late in August.

No problem man. I understand completely. I have been busy working on the MRotate5 version, using USB. Think I may be getting there.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2020, 06:39:35 pm »
A little update on progress......

And another weekend has flown by. Managed to grab 2 hours to get the auto degaus almost to the point of 'ready to test'.

I've got 2 x 2 pin 9ohm ptc.  I'm hitting one of them with a 2 second supply at the end of each rotate. Next rotate hits the other one. I'm hoping 2 seconds is enough for the degaus without getting the ptc so hot it takes so long to cool that it won't be ready when needed again. Alternating them will help, as will the cooling fans that run directly onto both ptc. There's also a manual push button degaus through the original ptc that will also have a 2 second timer (not yet fitted).

The original PTC (3 pin) (not necassarily the correct ptc although it did work) was 23ohm, with the coils at 30ohm, so initial resistance of 53ohm. With UK mains voltage that gives me an initial current of approx 4.5A

I put the 2 x 9ohm ptc in series with a 15ohm wirewound, so 24ohm plus the 30ohm coils.

Testing the current through a 30ohm wirewound , using an analogue clamp meter, the action appears to be very similar through all 3 circuits.

I hope this will work and then I can get onto the serial board and Mrotate.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2020, 07:11:20 pm »
A little update on progress......

And another weekend has flown by. Managed to grab 2 hours to get the auto degaus almost to the point of 'ready to test'.

I've got 2 x 2 pin 9ohm ptc.  I'm hitting one of them with a 2 second supply at the end of each rotate. Next rotate hits the other one. I'm hoping 2 seconds is enough for the degaus without getting the ptc so hot it takes so long to cool that it won't be ready when needed again. Alternating them will help, as will the cooling fans that run directly onto both ptc. There's also a manual push button degaus through the original ptc that will also have a 2 second timer (not yet fitted).

The original PTC (3 pin) (not necassarily the correct ptc although it did work) was 23ohm, with the coils at 30ohm, so initial resistance of 53ohm. With UK mains voltage that gives me an initial current of approx 4.5A

I put the 2 x 9ohm ptc in series with a 15ohm wirewound, so 24ohm plus the 30ohm coils.

Testing the current through a 30ohm wirewound , using an analogue clamp meter, the action appears to be very similar through all 3 circuits.

I hope this will work and then I can get onto the serial board and Mrotate.

Sounds good. Just remember the serial port is good for only around 10 milliamps (not sure about that, but I know its pretty low). Also, dont forget that the pin goes to around negative 12 volts to ground when "Off", so you may need blocking diodes to keep the negative voltage from your drive circuit. Wouldn't want to fry anything. Its around positive 5 vdc to ground when "On".

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2020, 03:41:24 pm »
Sounds good. Just remember the serial port is good for only around 10 milliamps (not sure about that, but I know its pretty low). Also, dont forget that the pin goes to around negative 12 volts to ground when "Off", so you may need blocking diodes to keep the negative voltage from your drive circuit. Wouldn't want to fry anything. Its around positive 5 vdc to ground when "On".

The good news is that the auto degaus works perfectly. Much better than I expected (or even hoped) with my 9ohm ptcs salvaged from an old chassis (which I think was my old 36" widescreen Matchline).

Turned the timers down to just 1 second so they are ready to degaus again within 30 seconds.

Next is mRotate with the serial board I grabbed a while back. I'll have to have a few re-reads of all the info the old man has put on here and wind the key on the old brain a little more.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2020, 03:50:15 pm »
Good show!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2020, 01:03:22 pm »
Hi Old Man.

Started with mrotate today, and as expected my IT skills (or lack of them) is letting me down badly.

I installed the serial card no problem, and downloaded mrotate4.

Then I'm lost.

I put it on the desk top and double clicked the exe.

It told me there was no ini file and I need to go to setup.

I went to set up and looked at the test panel.

When I closed the test panel it told me mscomm32.ocx was missing or screwed.

I d/l that and stuck it in the same folder as mrotate.exe.

Managed to create an ini (not sure I know how though), but still no idea what I am doing.


Can you give me a simple step by step please? I am totally lost.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2020, 01:56:11 pm »
MRotate will create the ini file for you after you set it up the first time. It just stores all your settings (outputs, inputs, commands, etc.)

If it still slaps your hand over the mscomm32.ocx file, try placing the mscomm32 in windows\system32. If that dont work and your system is 64 bit,  try windows\SysWOW64. you may need to include mscomm32.dep file. Both are available in my mrotate5 package download, or you can probably find it on the web. (Shouldnt need this for 32 bit)
But if you could open the test panel with no hand slaps, you should be ok.

You can hook two leds to your output pins (with 500 ohm resistors) to test it, or wire into your system and give it a real test (get ready to pull the plug on your system just in case it dont do what you expect).
Also, dont forget what I said about the pins going to neg 12 volts to ground when turned off. If this will be a problem on your system you  will need diodes to block the negative signal.
I can give you a rough drawing showing how to hook up the diodes if you need it.



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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2020, 02:10:15 pm »
Thanks for getting back to me so soon. Please see in red....

MRotate will create the ini file for you after you set it up the first time. It just stores all your settings (outputs, inputs, commands, etc.) But I have no idea what to set the 'settings' to. Do I just leave them all as default?


If it still slaps your hand over the mscomm32.ocx file, try placing the mscomm32 in windows\system32. If that dont work and your system is 64 bit,  try windows\SysWOW64. you may need to include mscomm32.dep file. Both are available in my mrotate5 package download, or you can probably find it on the web. (Shouldnt need this for 32 bit)
But if you could open the test panel with no hand slaps, you should be ok. It seems that after double clicking the ocx file it stopped nagging about it.

You can hook two leds to your output pins (with 500 ohm resistors) to test it, or wire into your system and give it a real test (get ready to pull the plug on your system just in case it dont do what you expect).
Also, dont forget what I said about the pins going to neg 12 volts to ground when turned off. If this will be a problem on your system you  will need diodes to block the negative signal.
I can give you a rough drawing showing how to hook up the diodes if you need it. I'm fine with the electronics part  thanks (that's where my strength is)

A few more Qs...

Do have to do something to make mrotate.exe start with mala?

Or will it run by itself?

Where should I actually put mrotate.exe?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2020, 02:28:27 pm »
I had a long post typed out for step by step instructs, and I guess I timed out before I posted and lost everything. i hate when that happens.

Anyway, you can probably use defaults, as long as you tell mrotate which pins you are connected to. (Setup Main menu  Comm Port  inputs/outputs)

Also make sure you have the correct com port set. (Setup Main menu Comm port  Comport settings)

The default arguments are 0 for horizontal and 90 for vertical. you can use these.

To interface this with mala, in startcom, select the path where you have mrotate4 placed.
Then for arguments 0 for horizontal and 90 for vertical.

Mala tells startcom, startcom runs mrotate4.

You can also run Mrotate4 from the windows command prompt.
Open cmd in the windows search bar, open command prompt.
Change directory to the one where you placed mrotate4.
to run to horizontal, Type Mrotate4 0
to run to vertical, Type Mrotate4 90
to open setup to make any changes, Type Mrotate4

In startcom, you will need to type in the complete path to mrotate4. its a lot easier to just put Mrotate4 on the root, (C:\mrotate4)

I will try to do a complete tutorial with screen shots later.




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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2020, 02:51:29 pm »
I have everything in C:\Emulation. Guess I should put mrotate in there as well?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2020, 09:48:52 pm »
I have everything in C:\Emulation. Guess I should put mrotate in there as well?

You can. It really doesnt matter where you put it but startcom needs the complete path to it. Its just easier for me to remember if I keep it simple. C:\Emulation\mrotate4.exe is pretty simple.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #85 on: August 22, 2020, 11:50:32 pm »
Ok, here are instructions for setting up mrotate4.
There is also pics of how to set up start com in mala to run mrotate4.
Sorry if I made any typing mistakes, its late.
I have laid them out in the order that you need to go by to set it up.

Main menu:


Comport connections:


Comport settings (mscomm32.ocx)


Outputs and Inputs:


Time limits:


Options:


Sounds:


Test panel:


About:


Mala plugin options:


Mala startcom:


Good luck, and holler if you need help, and let us know how it turns out.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #86 on: August 23, 2020, 05:39:55 am »
That is fantastic and so kind of you to take the time and trouble.

I'm off out with the family for a 90th birthday meal so will try to implement all this when we get back and update.

BTW... it's not my 90th!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2020, 10:53:13 am »
Safe travels and tell them Happy Birthday from DaOld Man.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2020, 02:56:43 pm »
Today I installed the serial card and mrotate4. Followed your step-by-step to the letter...... and it worked exactly as you described. Used a couple of LEDs with 1K resistors and could see the outputs doing their thing.

As you also said, there is quite a bit of activity during windows boot so need to block the outputs for about 30 seconds, which is no problem. Also will add some blocking diodes for the -ve voltages you mentioned.

Salvaged a couple of optos, transistors and relays from some old boards and started with the interfaces.

Getting real close now!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2020, 03:03:52 pm »
Built the interfaces today. One of the 2 didn't work straight off and while investigating I blew up the opto, the back emf diode and the switching transistor. Decided I was doing it the hard way with pnp switching so redesigned and built both with npn. Much simpler and both worked 1st go. Using a 10K current limiter into the opto I only draw 0.45mA from the 5v test supply so very pleased with that. When I add the blocking diode I may need to drop the 10K a bit lower. Then just got to add the 30 second lockout timer and it'll be ready to hook up

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2020, 06:01:51 pm »
Thats great!
If you are using optoisolators you probably wont need the blocking diodes. The led in the opto is a diode anyway.
Im glad you are getting there.
Some pics would be real nice.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2020, 06:35:20 pm »
Never really played with optos before so wasn't sure how they would handle the reverse voltage. Already blown up one so don't want to screw up again. But you're right, the LED in the opto should just stay hard off. I'll go for it as-is.

You're also right about the pics... if there's no pics it didn't happen!!

One strange thing I found.... my optos are 6 pin, so the base of the o/p transistor is on a spare pin. When I handle the board I inject 50hz (UK standard) into that pin and the relay turns into a machine gun! I didn't have any 4 pin optos. As long as I didn't touch a certain area of the board with bare skin there was no spurious behaviour so I'll leave it alone.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 06:39:22 pm by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2020, 07:00:41 pm »
Read this....

The base connection of the photo-transistor can be left open (unconnected) for maximum sensitivity to the LEDs infra-red light energy or connected to ground via a suitable external high value resistor to control the switching sensitivity making it more stable and resistant to false triggering by external electrical noise or voltage transients.

If I add a 10K to pull the base to ground I wonder how much more current will be required from the switching line?

Have to do a little testing. If I can keep the switching current to just 1 or 2mA with a base resistor added I think that would be good.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2020, 08:18:00 pm »
Did you look up the spec sheet for that opto?
Its probably got a min current on input.
Im not sure what current the comm port is good for, but I would say 5-10 ma should be safe.
I know the old printer port was safely good for around 10 ma.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2020, 05:59:08 pm »
Connected up the interface in place of the rotate buttons after work today.

Just brilliant! I select a H game in Mala and the screen does it's thing. Same with V. I am really blown away with how this works.

I cant give enough thanks to DaOldMan for all his help with this.

He wrote the programs. Even rewrote mrotate (mrotate4) specifically for my build. Gave me step by step instructions. All in his own time for no reward. Genuinely one of the good guys and there's not many of them left  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Got a bit of tidying up to do as it's hooked up with various wires hanging all over the place then I'll get some pics and probably a video or 2 showing some of the moving parts and Mala selecting games.

Got some more control panels to build next and also got to finish getting my roms sorted and loaded.

No rush though. It's onlt taken 6-7yrs to get this far! :cheers:

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2020, 07:20:16 pm »
Congrats!!
Thank you for the kind words, and I was very happy to help out.
Automatic rotation trumps manual (pushbutton), would you agree?

Cant wait to see the pics and the video of your creation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2020, 03:54:43 pm »
Done a bit of tidying with the wiring and was about to get a video but there was one major bug that was giving me a real headache.

The auto rotate is the main thing on the cab, and it has to work well, which is does... sort of. The drive is through a bundle of plastic gears out of a foot massager and they chatter and rattle so loud they ruin the whole effect. So today I ripped them out and thought how else I can go about this.

In my junk box I've got a few 24V linear actuators salvaged from some hospital beds. I can't use them as-is but I stripped one down and the worm drive is virtually silent and so smooth. Did a bit of modding to the drive and the cab and looks like a good bet. Too fast with 24V but seems about right with a 19V laptop supply. Trouble now is that the motor runs on after hitting the end stop. Got to come up with a simple electronic brake. A momentary relay that shorts the motor when power is removed from the motor, or something like that. Have to do a bit of thinking tonight.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #97 on: September 12, 2020, 04:40:54 pm »
Hmmm, so you are saying it is coasting? Can you move the stop switch to activate a little sooner?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #98 on: September 12, 2020, 06:20:11 pm »
There's so much weight in the 25" crt it takes about 3/4 inch to stop.  I should be able to come up with a simple electronic brake using bits from the scrap box.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 09:50:10 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2020, 03:56:57 pm »
The Mk2 rotate mechanics are now finished and the improvement is better than I could have hoped.

Instead of a rattly clunky jerky and generally crap system it's now smooth and quiet and simply brilliant (in my very biased opinion ;))

Also added the auto brake so it stops where I want it.

A bit of tidying up (again) and it's definitely video time.

So, the next question.... how do I get a vid on here?


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2020, 07:22:40 pm »
Sounds good!
Its been a while since I uploaded a video to here, but if I remember correctly, you save the video to youtube or some other file sharing site, then post a link to the video here.

PL1 might be more help on this subject.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2020, 08:43:14 pm »
how do I get a vid on here?
Most vids are going to be too big to upload here so your best bet is to upload it to a video site like YouTube, Vimeo, Rumble, etc.

The forum software will auto-embed YouTube videos -- just put the URL without tags in your post.

If you post this:
Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_aIkkObZWM
It will embed like this:


If you don't have an account at one of the video sharing sites, you can upload to a filesharing site like Mega, Dropbox, Google Drive, etc.
- https://www.sendspace.com/ and https://www.zippyshare.com/ are filesharing sites that don't require an account, but files are only available for a limited time.
- The downside to this approach is that people will have to download the video to view it.


Scott

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #102 on: October 03, 2020, 09:37:13 am »
VIDS ARE UP ON YOUTUBE

The vids are crap, but they sort of show the machine in operation. Just got 1 hori and 1 vert loaded for testing, and no CP fitted.

Vid 1... shows from the front https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIa63ozWEI0&feature=youtu.be

Vid 2... shows some of the workings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvK7TeRr6fQ&feature=youtu.be

The video quality is questionable, and the audio is far too sensitive. It's nowhere near as loud as the camera makes out. I can't even hear the buttons clicking but the camera makes them sound like gunfire. And the rotate is near silent but the camera makes it sound like a fog-horn.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 09:42:06 am by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #103 on: October 03, 2020, 10:46:09 am »
Looks good!! Can you show how you implemented the actuator motor to the rotation? I dont see that in the video.
Did you use a timer to delay rotation until PC booted up?
Can you share some wiring diagrams of your drive setup?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #104 on: October 03, 2020, 12:23:47 pm »
Here goes... (but still struggling with pics)

PIC 1.... This is the drive...

PIC 2.... The drive connects to the cog, which drives the toothed belt left over from my son's 3D printer build a few yrs ago...

PIC 3.... The Limit Switches

PIC 4.... The Serial Interface Board

PIC 5.... The Rotation Control Board

PIC 6 and 7.... The Auto Degaus Board

PIC 8.... The CRT And Surround (without the glass screen)


So, the basics...

At power ON, the timer relay on the rotate interface board (which is powered by the 12V from the ATX) will lockout the spurious outputs from the serial port for 30 seconds (this is adjustable).

When the PC boots and Mala is started it will be in the orientation of the last game played (thanks to Startcom). When V game is selected, Mrotate gives the output pulse on the Serial Port pin assigned. The interface board then powers a relay which activates the rotate system.

The rotate system, once activated, uses  2 relays to immediately block any further inputs, while at the same time activating 2 further relays. One will supply the drive voltage in the correct polarity and block out the other, or vise-versa, depending on direction of rotation. This state in permanent until the limit switch is hit. If a limit is not hit is the time set on the rotation timer relay the whole circuit is killed. This should hopefully never happen!!! When a limit is hit, a few things happen....

1.  The rotation supply is disconnected and the rotation circuit resets ready for the next input.
2.  The Motor Brake Relay is activated. This puts a resistor across the motor contacts for a couple of seconds to avoid over-run.
3.  The Auto Degaus fires the appropriate PTC for 1 second.

There are 3 PTC fitted. One for auto c/w, one for auto anti c/w, and one for manual. As the auto PTCs are only fired for 1 second, and they are used alternately, and they are fan cooled, even if the rotate is operated at the fastest possible frequency, the PTC has cooled sufficient to be ready for use. Hopefully the manual PTC, fired from a switch behing the coin door, will never be needed.

Some more notes...

The rotate motor is only running on 12V even though it is a 24V motor. With the full 24V it draws around 8A on startup and runs far to fast. This will cause the relay contacts to fail and also cause over-run. At 12V the rotation is nice and smooth and controlled.

My machining capabilities are quite limited so the drive cog is not perfectly centered on the drive shaft. The CRT mounting disc, around which the toothed belt is fitted, is also not as perfectly round as I would have like. This combination of imperfections caused the drive mech to go tight / slack / tight / slack during operation, causing a very jerky rotation. I added the rather elaborate (and probably over engineered) tensioning rollers to get around this and the rotation is now nice and smooth.

Unfortunately I am a messy worker, and my circuit drawings were no more than scribbles with loads of alterations and scribbles and I struggled to understand them myself once I'd finished with them. If anybody does need this info I'll try to recreate them in a neat fashion. But, to be honest, I only went with all the relays (and timer relays) as they were what I had in my scrap box. My son thinks I am positively pre-historic, and said if he was doing this build he would have controlled everything via an Arduino with PWM motor drives, H Bridges, and other far more modern techniques. I admit that computers and Arduinos are far out of my area of competence.

I hope this info and the pics and videos are of use to some people out there, and will do another update when I have built the rest of the machine (mainly the hot-swap CPs) and loaded on loads more games. I'll also be asking more questions regarding Mame / Mala, as obviously I'll be wanting to hide all the DOS boxes that keep showing and make Mala auto start at boot, which I know are all possible.

I must say another massive THANK YOU to DaOld Man, without who's help this machine would have never got off the ground :cheers: :cheers: :applaud:





 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 02:24:12 pm by Ropi Jo »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2020, 04:27:51 pm »
Wow! Your mechanical engineering is very impressive.
Thanks for the kind words, Im glad I could help.
So, do you prefer the automatic rotation over the manual pushbuttons?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« Reply #106 on: October 03, 2020, 07:38:37 pm »
So, do you prefer the automatic rotation over the manual pushbuttons?

Any rotate is better than no rotate, but auto-rotate just takes it to another level.

The few people who've seen it so far have definately been wow'd, with the possible exception of my dear old mum. When I showed her last week she started questioning if I was really her son! :dunno