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Author Topic: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)  (Read 20193 times)

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Ropi Jo

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Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT (Mrotate4)
« on: June 20, 2020, 09:12:37 am »
Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT

Hi. Please can I ask the simplest way of going about this?

My set up is as follows...

Mame 220

Mala 174

Win7 64

Semi auto rotating CRT.

The CRT rotates electrically with a one touch button. Touch the other button and it rotates back again. Once rotation starts both buttons are locked out until the rotation finishes. If power is cut during rotation then on re-powering either button can be activated to rotate to H or V. I want to keep it this way rather than have a prog control the rotation.

But what I also want is for Mala to stay in the rotated state of the last game played.

So, for example, if I am H, and I scroll through the Mala games list, and pick a V game, I want Mala to change the game to V, and I'll rotate the CRT with the button. When I exit that game I don't want Mala to go back to H. If I then select a H game, obviously I want Mala to give me the game in H, and I'll hit the button and rotate the CRT to H. When I exit that game I want Mala to stay H, and so on........

Can somebody please point me to where and what I set for this?

Thank you.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 11:35:49 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2020, 09:22:08 am »
While I canít help you on this question, Iíd be very interested to see your setup.  Got pics, or even better, video?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2020, 09:35:57 am »
Hi. Thanks for your interest.

The build is almost complete (apart from some of the extra CPs I'm planning). I just need to get the software finalised and I will put a vid on here showing the rotation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 04:25:44 am »
I thought this would be an easy one for somebody that's done it before who would say "Just set This to That and That to This".

I know it's a do-able task as I've seen in Youtube vids where Mala stays V when exiting a V game and stays H when exiting a H game, but with a prog (possibly Mrotate) doing the rotate, and possibly telling Mala what orientation to use.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2020, 08:19:07 am »
I thought this would be an easy one for somebody that's done it before

Iíd reach out to Da Old Man.  He created mrotate and has helped with many rotation projects in the past. Looks like he hasnít logged in since April 28th.  Perhaps sending him a PM might cause him to respond.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2020, 09:57:30 am »
He does seen to be the man to ask. I'll try PMing him. maybe his phone will go PING!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 10:50:00 am »
Hi Ropi Jo, I got your message, thanks for reaching out to me, I really needed to get back on here anyway, to catch up on all the cool projects.
I wrote a program a while back to do this. It is called malaori
It uses switches to tell the PC which orientation it is in on startup of malaori.
It then starts mala in the matching orientation.
You will need a printer port for this.  Also you will need inpout64.dll, downloadable free. But I have not had a lot of luck getting inpout to work on 64 bit.
I also started a thread on here that outlines malaori, if I can find it I will post it here.
If you dont have a printer port, I may be able to modify malaori to read a 9 pin comport instead.
You will also need two switches that tie back to the port. i would highly recommend keeping your current circuit separate from your pc port, so you may have to add two more switches. (H and V)
If you can post pics or wiring diagrams of your project that would be great.
Anyway, here is malaori. It is zipped, if you need it in a different format (BYOAC wont let me post exe files), let me know.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2020, 10:53:50 am »
Looks like the search engine is having a problem, so I cant find the thread about malaori. Maybe Scott can help.
If I find it later I will post the link here.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2020, 11:22:49 am »
I cant find the thread about malaori. Maybe Scott can help.
I can with that keyword and knowing that it's one of your posts.   ;D
- Under the author's profile, click on "show posts".
- Use find (Ctrl-F or F3 in many browsers) and find next (Ctrl-G in many browsers) to see if the keyword is on that page of post results.
- If you don't find what you're looking for, go to the next page of results and find next. (Ctrl-G)

Original malaori thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,97107.0.html

File Repository: http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=3585

Recent thread about malaori: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156512.0.html


Scott
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:29:17 am by PL1 »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 11:37:39 am »
Thanks PL1. you are da man.
Ropi Jo, you might want to read through those threads before embarking on this mission.
Also, i have been thinking, and instead of using the printer port, it may be possible to use two inputs on your keyboard encoder, if you have the spare inputs.
Let me know if you would like me to modify malaori to read keyboard instead of printer port to get monitor orientation.
I dont know why I didnt include this option in the original, could be I was wondering what effect the input always being on would have when reading it as a keyboard key.
One of those switches would be on all the time and could create some kind of "stuck key" error on windows.
Let me know if you want to pursue this.
thanks for your interest and good luck.

(DaOld Man crawls out of his tomb, dusts himself off, and says "wheres the beer?" LOL)

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2020, 11:49:15 am »
Thanks so much for this. My MOBO almost certainly does not have the printer port. It's a Dell I5. But I'll check tonight and let you know. There are spare inputs on the JPAC, the OPTIPAC and the APAC, all permanently connected. If I could any of these that would be great.

I'll have a good read through the threads Scott linked to.

And there I was thought this would be simple.

Cheers Chaps.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2020, 11:58:29 am »
Yeah, the printer port was going out of style back when I did this project (2009), but most motherboards still had it then.
I will see what I can do with using keyboard inputs.
However the windows stuck key may be a problem, but maybe not.
At least you wont need inpout with that, which like I said is very hard to get to work on 64 bit. At least it was last time I tried to work with it.
I will post it for you to test when I finish it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 12:05:58 pm »
Top Man. Thank you so much.

I am using end stops for the rotate. Can't remember if they are NO of NC. I assume these are used by malaori (or maybe a relay from these to switch the IP of the jPac.) I can rig a timer relay to these to avoid the windows stuck key if that helps. Got loads of timer relays.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 12:17:00 pm »
Thanks PL1. you are da man.
Glad to assist.   ;D

One of those switches would be on all the time and could create some kind of "stuck key" error on windows.
Maybe run the grounds for those two switches through the COM-NC contacts of a time-delay relay?
- System powers on ==> relay is on for a few seconds which interrupts the ground for those two switches long enough for windows to register those keys as not pressed.
- By the time mala starts, the relay is off and ground is reconnected to the switches.

I am using end stops for the rotate. Can't remember if they are NO of NC. I assume these are used by malaori (or maybe a relay from these to switch the IP of the jPac.) I can rig a timer relay to these to avoid the windows stuck key if that helps. Got loads of timer relays.
Depending on how you wire things, it may be better to have separate orientation and endstop switches.   :dunno


Scott

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 12:18:09 pm »
Would something as simple as iRotate work?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 02:20:03 pm »
OK. Just checked my wiring. My end stops are NC, so open when the mech hits them. But I have a NO spare on each so can take that and fire a timer relay to do almost anything... single shot, set single shot pulse duration, set continual pulsing, etc.

And... my MOBO does not have a printer port. Doesn't even have a PS2 for keyboard or mouse.

I would put some pics but struggling with that. Must be a guide on here somewhere.

I will check malaori and iRotate ASAP.

Thanks again.



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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2020, 03:01:49 pm »
Somehow I managed to upload a pic so I'll try some more...

Please remember this is work in progress...




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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2020, 03:05:42 pm »
My end stops are NC, so open when the mech hits them. But I have a NO spare on each so can take that and fire a timer relay to do almost anything... single shot, set single shot pulse duration, set continual pulsing, etc.
What I meant is that if you have the motor/actuator voltage running through the limit switches like this example, you would need to run the keyboard encoder inputs through two other switches. (not shown)

Mixing the motor/actuator voltage and the keyboard encoder inputs is not a good idea.   ;)




Scott
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 03:12:43 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2020, 03:33:10 pm »
I think I'm with you on that Scott.

I've got 24V running the rotate elecs, so at the end of the rotate I would get 24V on the NO. This could operate a relay that would make any switch on the JPAC via the relay's no volt contact. The 2 circuits would be isolated from each other.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2020, 04:01:15 pm »
I've got 24V running the rotate elecs, so at the end of the rotate I would get 24V on the NO. This could operate a relay that would make any switch on the JPAC via the relay's no volt contact. The 2 circuits would be isolated from each other.
Yeah, that makes sense.   :cheers:

Two regular relays -- one controlled by the NO of one limit switch and the other controlled by the NO of the other limit switch -- and one time-delay rely to interrupt those two JPAC input grounds during boot to avoid a Windows "stuck key" error.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2020, 05:32:09 pm »
So, all I need now is a prog to run on the cab from DaOldMan to tell Mala which orientation?...... no pressure of course.

I had a look at iRotate, as suggested by Arroyo. It rotated the windows desktop no probs, but with Mala running it rotated but only gave half the screen. Very odd. 

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 07:24:05 pm »
Ive been working on MalaoriK, for keyboard. Ironing out a few bugs, hopefully will be ready in a day or two.
Mala is kinda particular how it works. Malaori actually changes the setup file for Mala to vert or horz then starts mala.
I will send it to you when Im ready, you can beta test it for me.
Once all bugs are ironed out and you pass it, I will post it here in case anyone else wants to use it.
You really need to think about automating that rotating rig, which is impressive I might add.
But doing it automatically is the cats meow.


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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 10:23:50 pm »
Ok, here is my first beta version.
If anyone downloads this, please be aware it is in beta mode, but if youd like to test it I would appreciate it.
I will upload any improvements or changes as they come.
You will need to take mala out of start with windows mode, and add this program to start when windows does.
That option is in the program, but I havent tested it yet, it worked on old version so should still work.

I still need to put a timer in it so if neither input is made after X milliseconds, it will use default orientation . Right now first screen stays up until you click exit or setup.
First splash screen will disappear if it sees one of the inputs, or it is the first run (no malaori.ini file), or you can run setup by changing this line in malaori.ini: Run setup mode = no, to: Run setup mode = yes, then run malaori.

I will remove the previous beta version and attach latest to thread below. Only need one download link to avoid confusion.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:41:33 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2020, 10:34:25 pm »
Ok, fixed one issue with the auto start with windows option. Had to change the registry name from MalaOri to MalaOrik, to match the new exe name.
Found another instance where I had to change to malaorik for auto startup.
Please download this one again if you already did.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:48:51 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 10:48:34 pm »
Added timer to splash screen. if no input within 1 second it will start mala in default mode. (Default mode selected in settings)

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2020, 04:37:55 am »
You are a great guy to do this. And so fast!

I will d/l this later after work and get my son to help me as all this computer stuff goes over my head.

Regarding automating, what would you suggest considering my current setup?

I have Mala 174,

Mame 220

Win 7 64

No printer port


All I need is any logic o/p as the system currently is 1 touch buttons. Any basic logic o/p can take the place of my buttons. But where to get this o/p?

At the end of each rotation I hit the manual degaus, but this is not ideal. My switch interrupts the supply the PTC so after a degaus the PTC still needs about 3-4 minutes before it will operate again. I really need to be  supplying the degaus coils directly (i would guess through a suitable resistor) for an automated 1-2 second degaus at the end of each rotation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2020, 09:28:07 am »
MRotate would do all that, plus have the option to degauss by activating a relay, the relay would activate the degauss by shorting out the monitors degauss button or however it degausses now.
However Mrotate uses the printer port. You can get around that by installing a cheap printer port card in your PC, however, you have 64 bit and as I said, i gave up trying to get mrotate to work with 64 bit.
I was working on using Mrotate with a USB I/O card instead of printer port, but thats been a while back and I never completed it.
I would use what you have for now, but keep thinking about doing it automatically. It helps to study up and do a ton of research before you jump into tearing stuff out.
Someone on here may have already developed what you need.
The beauty of using the printer port is that it has 8 outputs and 4 inputs, perfect for rotating monitors in an arcade cab. But ... oh well.
Something I thought of last night, Malaori only works for mala start up, so if you move the monitor between games, mala will not change orientation. One way around this is to place another button to tell mala to change rotation. There is a keyboard button you can assign to tell mala to rotate, but maybe you already have this covered? There is a plugin that does all this automatically, but it is designed to activate Mrotate (or another program), that turns the monitor based on game orientation. It is a plugin I wrote for Mala called startcom. It sets up Mala screen orientation and sends a command to Mrotate to turn H or V, based on the games original orientation.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2020, 10:17:34 am »
Loads to read up and think about. Thanks for all your help guys. I will report back how I end up running.  :cheers:

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2020, 04:01:51 pm »
Well, I loaded malaoriK and it does exactly what DaOldMan said it would do. It starts Mala in the orientation of the key input mapped to the end stops.

For me, unfortunately, I don't think it's going to address my needs. It doesn't account for switching Mala orientation between games without quitting Mala and restarting with the CRT in the orientation required, and reading back DaOldMan does state that quite clearly.

Mrotate, I believe, does do this, but I'd need to get a printer port card and change to W7 32.

Life is a b*tch.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2020, 04:09:48 pm »
actually, Mrotate does not do that. Startcom plugin will.
Maybe try that? 

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2020, 04:23:45 pm »
startcom is a mala plugin.
When a game is selected to run (from mala), it reads the games orientation from the xml file and passes that to startcom, startcom then starts the program used to control the rotation motor.
Then it handles mala screen positioning, etc.
Startcom has to reference a program to call, but I dont see why you cant just call a bat file that really does nothing.

example: create a file at C: called junk.bat
with nothing in it except maybe an echo command.

From startcom, you would call c:\junk.bat

commands could be any thing, such as h for horizontal or v for vertical.
You would still have to press your button to do the actual turning, but the mala problem should be solved.
And you wont need any extra switches.
But if you want mala to start in right orientation on boot up, you will need malaorik, and the switches, unless someone else has a better idea.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2020, 04:29:34 pm »
I was typimg this as you replied...

Please excuse my lack of understanding :-[

Looks like it's game on again

So... malaoriK sets mala in the correct ori at start.

and

startcom does the ori inbetween games.

It's over my head but I'll get my son to read that thread. It'll make sense to him

Thank you. Again!!

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2020, 04:34:42 pm »
I was typimg this as you replied...

Please excuse my lack of understanding :-[

Looks like it's game on again

So... malaoriK sets mala in the correct ori at start.

and

startcom does the ori inbetween games.

It's over my head but I'll get my son to read that thread. It'll make sense to him

Thank you. Again!!

Sorry if I am flooding you with all this stuff.
But I think startcom will do what you want.
malaorik only if you care about mala being correct on bootup, yes.
I think I had a thread detailing startcom a lot more in the mala frontend forum, but Im having trouble finding it.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2020, 04:45:43 pm »
This may be the thread I was talking about:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,91842.0.html

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2020, 06:53:58 pm »
That thread blew me away. I'm not even sure what language was being used.

Just to clarify...For Startcom I do or do not require a printer port and or W7 32?

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2020, 07:24:18 pm »
delete that file I posted, here is the one you need. The previous file was the complete project, this one is the plugin. If you put any of that last file in your plugin folder, delete it.
Unzip this one and place it in the mala/plugins folder.
Then start mala, right click on it with your mouse, go to options/config, goto to plugins. click on startcom then click configure.
Enter your junk.bat file in the program to run box, and anything in the rotate commands

should unzip to startcom.mplugin

Man I had to clean out a lot of cobwebs to recall some of this stuff. LOL

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2020, 07:30:44 pm »
That thread blew me away. I'm not even sure what language was being used.

Just to clarify...For Startcom I do or do not require a printer port and or W7 32?

No, the printer port is to interface the rotation motor's drive to the computer.

Since you are just trying to get the mala screen to rotate, you shouldnt need anything else.
startcom is a mala plugin and doesnt do any of the outside work with hardware, thats what mrotate does.
Now if you decide to automatically rotate your screen, you will need I/O interface with the PC.
But I wouldnt worry about that unless you do decide to automate it.

Now, I have not tried using startcom without controlling the monitor rotation, but I dont see why it wouldnt work for what you want to do, as long as you call a program that really does nothing, such as your junk.bat file.

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2020, 07:40:05 pm »
I must be loosing it!  I was searching old backups for the startcom plugin and the whole time it was already in the downloads section of this forum (Automated Projects).
I think it is a different version from the one I posted in this thread, so if that one dont work look in Downloads and download it from there.
I think you may have to rename it to startcom.mplugin after you unzip but not sure.
I really need a vacation! LOL

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Re: Setting up Mame / Mala with rotating CRT
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 07:03:09 am »
Almost there!!!!

Startcom is great. It does what you said it would do. Thank you. It rotates Mala depending according to the game H or V. It was actually simpler to set up than I expected thanks to your excellent instructions.

Just one thing though... I have snaps for each game. In H mode, the snaps are all there. But Mala won't display the snap in V mode. I can still scroll the list and select a H game, and when I exit that game, Mala is in H mode, and the snaps are back. Any ideas? This a Mala thing, as it does this using the Mala command directly as well as through startcom.

I'm doing this on my test PC running widescreen LCD at high res. I notice when it rotates to V the display is off centre, so I'm thinking it's possibly to do with the resolutions? I'm off down to my cave to try rotating Mala on the real machine with snaps loaded and also installing Startcom down there as well.

UPDATE... the V screen is nice and central on the main rig so that's good, but still no snaps in V mode. I'll post this question in the Mala section as well as some peeps may not look here but may know the answer.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:46:36 am by Ropi Jo »