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Author Topic: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy  (Read 122899 times)

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Jimbo

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #520 on: December 16, 2020, 03:36:32 am »
Scott - thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response.  I just ordered the resistors and I'm looking forward to making this work!  I have some shrink tubing so I will also try to make it as neat as possible.  I should be able to finish the wiring this weekend.  I'd love to have this playable but Christmas!   :cheers:

Aah the Christmas arcadey rush... I know it well ;)

Good luck getting it finished mate.

Zebidee

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #521 on: December 20, 2020, 03:03:45 pm »
Javeryh, I don't use the volcano buttons but, I think you might want to try 150 ohm resistors instead if your LEDs are 2v (typical) and using 5v power.

Plug the values into this calculator, 5v power, 2v LED, 20mA current and you'll get 150R for resistor required:

https://ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator

You might find that with 220 ohms the LED doesn't light at all because it doesn't let enough current through. I tried 200R with a ~2v LED just a few weeks ago and it only lit for a moment before puffing out, changed to 150R and all was good.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 06:16:33 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #522 on: December 21, 2020, 04:47:13 am »
For anyone wanting to follow where Zebidee and I derailed this thread discussing parallel circuits and electronic formulas, it has been split to a separate topic.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164190.0.html

Everyone else, we now return you to javeryh's regularly scheduled thread.   ;D


Scott

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #523 on: December 21, 2020, 12:04:05 pm »
I'll be reading that thread too - this stuff is a big time learning experience for me and I appreciate the conversation...

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #524 on: December 21, 2020, 04:09:20 pm »
CP is wired except for the volcano buttons.  I’m going to do those next.  I’m a little concerned about having enough room for the connectors but I’ll manage.



Slow moving but after this is done I could have a functioning cabinet... if I figure out how to attach the CP to it.

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #525 on: December 22, 2020, 05:15:35 pm »
Ok.  The switches are wired for the volcano buttons.  No issues (I hope).  I am now finally ready to wire the LEDs... will this work?



The Trackball area on the iPAC2 has 4 pins.  One is labeled 5V and one is GND.  I have an extra cable laying around that I think could work:



As long as I keep the wires straight, is it OK to cut this wire in half and use one of the four wires for 5V and one other wire for GND both going to the LED? This would leave the wires labeled X1 and X2 to go nowhere...

Basically, I want to use this wire to connect to the iPAC2 because I don’t know how to do it otherwise.  The connector would cover all 4 pins on the iPAC2 where it says Trackball but 2 of the wires would not be used.  I’d splice in the resistor and the crimp connectors as originally planned on the other end.

Will this work?

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #526 on: December 22, 2020, 10:42:42 pm »
Basically, I want to use this wire to connect to the iPAC2 because I don’t know how to do it otherwise.  The connector would cover all 4 pins on the iPAC2 where it says Trackball but 2 of the wires would not be used.  I’d splice in the resistor and the crimp connectors as originally planned on the other end.

Will this work?

I expect it to work fine given you're only drawing 40mA/100mW, which is comparable to what a trackball might draw so should be rated OK for that.
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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #527 on: December 23, 2020, 02:58:31 am »
I am now finally ready to wire the LEDs... will this work?
Yes.

That type of connector usually mates with a polarized connector so you can't plug it in backward, but it should work perfectly fine on the IPac pins.

One thing that you might consider doing is if the 5v wire isn't red and/or isn't clearly visible, you might want to put a dot of red paint or fingernail polish on the connector housing by the 5v pin (or a green dot by ground) as a reminder which way the connector goes.


Scott

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javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #528 on: December 23, 2020, 04:21:20 pm »
I expect it to work fine given you're only drawing 40mA/100mW, which is comparable to what a trackball might draw so should be rated OK for that.

Yes.

That type of connector usually mates with a polarized connector so you can't plug it in backward, but it should work perfectly fine on the IPac pins.

One thing that you might consider doing is if the 5v wire isn't red and/or isn't clearly visible, you might want to put a dot of red paint or fingernail polish on the connector housing by the 5v pin (or a green dot by ground) as a reminder which way the connector goes.

Thanks guys.  One last thing... can I wire these two LEDs in parallel?  So I'd only need one resistor.  Go from iPAC2 GND to ground on BUTTON 1 to ground on BUTTON 2 and then from iPAC2 5V to 220 ohm resistor to + on BUTTON 1 to + on BUTTON 2.  Or do I need to actually wire the + on BUTTON 1 and BUTTON 2 separately?

Like this...

« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 04:32:49 pm by javeryh »

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #529 on: December 23, 2020, 06:45:47 pm »
can I wire these two LEDs in parallel?  So I'd only need one resistor.
That configuration makes it a series-parallel circuit instead of two parallel circuits.

A guy on Stackexchange asked about a setup using one resistor to feed parallel LEDs.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed
Quote
Manufacturing tolerances might make one LED draw a wide range of currents for a fixed voltage applied to its terminals. If you applied another LED in parallel one LED might take virtually all the current whilst the 2nd LED took virtually zero - this is the problem of not using a seperate resistor for each string of LEDs.

Best practice is to use one resistor per parallel branch so you get consistant current which will give you consistant brightness.

You can either wire it like below or daisy-chain one 5v line to the left side of the two resistors the same way you daisy-chain ground to the right side of the LEDs.




Scott
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 06:48:43 pm by PL1 »

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #530 on: December 23, 2020, 07:21:54 pm »
can I wire these two LEDs in parallel?  So I'd only need one resistor.
That configuration makes it a series-parallel circuit instead of two parallel circuits.

A guy on Stackexchange asked about a setup using one resistor to feed parallel LEDs.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed
Quote
Manufacturing tolerances might make one LED draw a wide range of currents for a fixed voltage applied to its terminals. If you applied another LED in parallel one LED might take virtually all the current whilst the 2nd LED took virtually zero - this is the problem of not using a seperate resistor for each string of LEDs.

Best practice is to use one resistor per parallel branch so you get consistant current which will give you consistant brightness.

You can either wire it like below or daisy-chain one 5v line to the left side of the two resistors the same way you daisy-chain ground to the right side of the LEDs.




Scott

OK got it.  I'm just trying to figure out how to do this in the most practical way - connecting to the pin on the iPAC2 is kind of a pain.  Seems like my original pic is best but if I'm understanding you correctly, I could also do it like this as well? 



The extra resistor is no big deal - they are so tiny though!  I have some shrink tube and solder that will hopefully hold it all together (and not melt). 

The wire I'm using that I posted above is VERY thin once I cut it open (only 2 wires too - Red, which is going to 5V and white, which is going to GND).  There was also strands of wire in between the white and red covered wires, which I assume is what is used to connect X1 and X2 but it seemed weird to me.

Zebidee

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #531 on: December 23, 2020, 07:48:00 pm »
I find that wiring diagram confusing, so I re-created it for you (below). I like to keep my 5v and GND together so you can think of it as a "rail".

recycling old cables is always a bit of a mystery tour. Sometimes it is great, sometimes not so great.

To make things easy for yourself, you could try getting some "arduino wires" for this kind of thing. They come in different colours with male/female ends already attached. They can be easily separated from the "ribbons" of wires. Great for 5v project applications. Like these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001769657025.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7f14377fbVavbk&algo_pvid=8076956e-0a85-4fb8-b71c-bd36cc26a824&algo_expid=8076956e-0a85-4fb8-b71c-bd36cc26a824-5&btsid=0b0a555c16087706106626359eba49&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #532 on: December 23, 2020, 09:06:27 pm »
OK got it.  I'm just trying to figure out how to do this in the most practical way - connecting to the pin on the iPAC2 is kind of a pain.  Seems like my original pic is best but if I'm understanding you correctly, I could also do it like this as well? 


Yes.

One easy way to connect the 5v line to two resistors is to strip and tin the wire, bend a hook in the wire end, then bend hooks in the leads of two resistors and solder all three hooks together in a Y-shape -- like this, but with two resistors instead of one.





Then you can solder a wire to the other end of each resistor and add a 0.110" QD for the LED+ tab.

The wire I'm using that I posted above is VERY thin once I cut it open (only 2 wires too - Red, which is going to 5V and white, which is going to GND).  There was also strands of wire in between the white and red covered wires, which I assume is what is used to connect X1 and X2 but it seemed weird to me.
That might be a shielded audio cable for a CD or DVD drive.   :dunno

Dupont jumpers like the ones Zebidee linked to are very handy and easy to work with.
- Use a F-F jumper.
- Pull the housing off one end.
- Push the resistor lead thru the pin (see attached pic), bend the lead so there's a good mechanical connection between the lead and pin, then solder the lead to the pin.

Since the jumpers are cheap and plantiful, it might be easier to run four separate lines instead of daisy-chaining the 5v lines and daisy-chaining the grounds.


Scott

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #533 on: December 23, 2020, 10:26:06 pm »
The Dupont jumpers should fit snugly onto those IPAC pins. You could cut a double-female and solder the bared wire at each end, but...

I like Scott's way better (two pairs of 5v + GND lines) because stronger connection and you can different colours for the 5v lead to each LED. So long as you have the extra 5v connections on your IPAC. Otherwise daisychaining is fine too.

It is all the same parallel circuit we've shown you in various forms as the 5v rail will be connected at the IPAC anyway.
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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #534 on: December 24, 2020, 02:47:51 pm »
Alright... wiring is complete and... nothing.  LEDs not lighting up.  Not sure what I did wrong but here's a quick video walking through it.



Any help at this point would be appreciated... I literally have no idea what to try next to turn these LEDs on.

I made 2 separate runs from the two 5V pins on the iPAC2 to what I think is + on the volcano button with the 220 ohm resistor soldered in-line for each wire.  Then I daisy chained the ground wires and ran that back to GND on the iPAC2.  I plugged the iPAC2 in and the green light came on so it has power but the LEDs did not light up as expected.  Do I need to tell the iPAC2 to provide power to those pins in software or something?

Thanks guys. :cheers:

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #535 on: December 24, 2020, 05:06:33 pm »
Time to troubleshoot.

First step, test the LEDs and confirm the polarity.

- Remove power to the panel -- the multimeter will provide power for this test.

- Set your multimeter to diode test.

- Touch the leads to the LED tabs.
-- If the leads are backward, the LED won't light.
-- If you swap leads and the LED still won't light, either the LED is bad or you're on the wrong tabs.
-- If you have the correct polarity and the LED is good, it will light dimly. (make a note of the voltage displalyed on the meter)



Next step is to check if the LED is getting enough voltage to forward bias.

- Set the meter to VDC.

- Restore power to the panel.

- Touch the leads to the LED tabs to test how much voltage is dropped across the LED.  Compare that voltage to the voltage during the diode test.
-- If the voltage is lower than during the diode test, you need a lower value current limiting resistor so the LED gets enough voltage to forward bias.

Use a calculator like this one that Zebidee linked earlier.
- Fill in 3 of these 4 values and click on calculate.
  • Voltage source = 5v
  • Voltage drop from LED = voltage from the diode test
  • Current through the LED = usually between 15 and 20 mA
  • Resistance = current limiting resistor value

Scott

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #536 on: December 24, 2020, 06:29:54 pm »
 :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:04:58 pm by jennifer »

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #537 on: December 24, 2020, 09:46:07 pm »
Use your multimeter to check voltage out of those IPAC pins.

Make sure you have the polarity of the LEDs right. Long lead/anode to the voltage, short lead/cathode to ground.

Double-check that the GND you are using is connected to the GND on the trackball socket you are getting your 5v from (continuity test). However I expect they are.

Also, ... even though they worked for someone else, 220R for the resistors IMO is marginally viable and might be too high for your particular case. Try 150R if you have them. Even small variations in manufacturing or voltage available from your PC/PSU/IPAC could be enough to make the difference between the LED working in one case and not working in another.

Merry Christmas!!
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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #538 on: December 25, 2020, 02:32:00 pm »
Thanks everyone... looks like I should have asked for a multimeter for Christmas!  I'll try swapping the two wires first - maybe it's just backwards... I hope.  I can't believe these 2 stupid buttons are giving me so much trouble...

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #539 on: December 25, 2020, 08:08:44 pm »
You don't need fancy for your first multimeter - I still use the cheap yellow one I got for $10-15 from hardware store over 10 years ago! But a while ago I treated myself with a Fluke 17B+, which is a very nice choice for hobbyists. 
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #540 on: December 26, 2020, 05:37:34 pm »
 :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:05:29 pm by jennifer »

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #541 on: December 26, 2020, 10:50:48 pm »
I am not so sure about the dollar store meters, There are alot of functions one can play with on modern DMMs, such as diode tester, and continuity, Not that you need a all high end Fluke... Radio Shack, and Craftsman make nice budget models.

Yes should be able to get something pretty decent for $50 or so, depends on your budget and needs. The Fluke 17B+ is about $150-180 which is certainly not cheap, but it is very nice to use and more aimed at hobbyists. Some of their other affordable models are more aimed at electricians. In particular it has a good milliamps function (mA) which is something you should look for, but then even my cheap $10 yellow DMM can do that reasonably well so really no need to splash too much cash on your first one.
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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #542 on: December 26, 2020, 11:38:34 pm »
Another thing that you may want to consider is some alternate meter leads.
- Alligator clips
- Micrograbbers
- Sharp point leads for poking through conformal coating

This inexpensive set has a good variety.
https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Multimeter-Alligator-Probes-Professional/dp/B074L1NXRX/




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javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #543 on: December 27, 2020, 01:49:20 pm »
It’s alive!!!!

OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it.  So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.






I’m super psyched.  Now I need to figure out how to attach the CP to the cabinet without drilling through the top.  I’m hoping some cocktail clips will work but the problem will be getting my hand up through the coin door for access.

I’m getting really close now... oh yeah- I have a clear dust washer for the joystick that I want to make black.  Do you think if I spray painted the bottom it would appear uniform?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 01:51:16 pm by javeryh »

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #544 on: December 27, 2020, 02:02:06 pm »
Looks great buddy, nice work!

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #545 on: December 27, 2020, 02:05:10 pm »
Looks great buddy, nice work!

LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby.   :cheers:

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #546 on: December 27, 2020, 02:24:40 pm »
OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it.  So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.
. . . and that's why everyone in this hobby should have multimeter.  :P

Glad you got the LEDs working.   ;D


Scott

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #547 on: December 27, 2020, 04:11:37 pm »
Looks great buddy, nice work!

LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby.   :cheers:

 :w00t
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javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #548 on: December 28, 2020, 10:19:31 am »
OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it.  So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.
. . . and that's why everyone in this hobby should have multimeter.  :P

Glad you got the LEDs working.   ;D

Looks great buddy, nice work!

LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby.   :cheers:

 :w00t

Thanks to the two of you walking me through it.  Could not have done it otherwise.   :cheers:

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #549 on: December 30, 2020, 04:03:12 pm »
Those are looking great!  I originally debated putting volcano buttons on mine for the system controls area.
Now you're making me want to reconsider them again.... although last I looked they were still pricey.  Keep it up!

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #550 on: December 30, 2020, 04:19:15 pm »
Nice clean work sir - very well executed.
Love the cab!
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #551 on: December 31, 2020, 11:30:09 am »
Loving the build, im wanting to build a lowboy style type cab as well.

Ingenious idea with the marquee placement!. I was thinking similar for my build but having it on the top panel of the cab (so its facing the main monitor)

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #552 on: January 04, 2021, 12:58:38 pm »
Those are looking great!  I originally debated putting volcano buttons on mine for the system controls area.
Now you're making me want to reconsider them again.... although last I looked they were still pricey.  Keep it up!

Thanks - the volcano buttons are super pricey but worth it, I think.  They really look sharp and at least for this project I think they really complete the look I was going for (Asteroids).

Nice clean work sir - very well executed.
Love the cab!

Thanks!  Keeping it clean was a major goal.  Slow and steady...

Loving the build, im wanting to build a lowboy style type cab as well.

Ingenious idea with the marquee placement!. I was thinking similar for my build but having it on the top panel of the cab (so its facing the main monitor)

Thanks.  Form factor is really great.  It looks tiny but doesn't feel that way when standing in front of it.  The marquee (and really this whole project) wasn't my idea.  Others have done something similar (much better too).

 :cheers:

markc74

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #553 on: January 04, 2021, 03:31:17 pm »
Really liking how this is turning out. The volcano buttons definitely take it up a notch. I actually had some volcano buttons for mine but never got around to fitting them before I sold it.

And now I miss it... (sad face)


ivwshane

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #554 on: January 04, 2021, 11:43:35 pm »
Damn! Javeryh is still in the scene making yet another system?!! Nice! Your builds are always top notch and a joy to follow.

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #555 on: January 06, 2021, 05:38:10 pm »
Really liking how this is turning out. The volcano buttons definitely take it up a notch. I actually had some volcano buttons for mine but never got around to fitting them before I sold it.

And now I miss it... (sad face)

Build another!  Would probably take you like 2 weeks instead of a year like my builds do.  I like the profile on this one so much that I made a template and kept it.  I think I want to build another for some family members at some point in the future.  I'll simplify it - LCD, no dynamic marquee, etc. but it seems like something people could put in the family room and it wouldn't look out of place with the woodgrain and the small size.

Damn! Javeryh is still in the scene making yet another system?!! Nice! Your builds are always top notch and a joy to follow.

Thanks!  I don't think I'll ever really leave.  I have this idea in my head of trying to do 1 build per year.  I really love the process and it gives me something to do.

javeryh

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #556 on: January 07, 2021, 03:25:10 pm »
Alright guys... any suggestions on how to attach the control panel to the actual cabinet?  I do not want to drill through the top of the CP - that's a non-starter for me as it would kill the aesthetic I'm going for even though it is probably the easiest way to do it.

I've been staring at this for the better part of 2 weeks and I'm a bit paralyzed from doing anything since I really only get one shot at it.  The design allows for the control panel to rest on 3/4" thick strips of wood that will be installed on the sides of the cabinet.  I am trying to figure out a way to make it secure (but still removeable).

Here is a shot of basically where the wooden support will be:



And here is what it would look like from the bottom of the CP.  There's not much wiggle room.



What I have been planning is to use some extra cocktail table clips but I am having second thoughts.  These clips would pull the CP down to the wooden support strips but not necessarily prevent the CP from sliding back and forth during play.  Also, due to the tight space, the hardware for the clips would need to be installed under some of the wiring and it might be difficult to operate (still probably doable) as you can see here:



Is this a viable solution?  Once I work this out, I'm pretty much finished - just have to install the computer and wire up the coin door, speakers, etc.  I'm open to suggestions if there is something easy I'm overlooking...

EDIT: I've also tried rare earth magnets for this purpose on my mini bartop and it didn't work... which is kind of why I never finished that thing 100%.

 :cheers:

« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 03:29:56 pm by javeryh »

markc74

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #557 on: January 07, 2021, 03:45:13 pm »
Velcro? You might need to staple it to the wood though just to stop it peeling off.

jennifer

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #558 on: January 07, 2021, 04:44:42 pm »
 :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:06:00 pm by jennifer »

jennifer

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Re: javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy
« Reply #559 on: January 07, 2021, 04:58:56 pm »
 :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:06:28 pm by jennifer »