Author Topic: Gil's Joust Build (Read 10496 times)

Gilrock · « **on:** February 11, 2020, 09:43:25 am »

Last year after I finished my Robotron build I bought all the parts to make a Joust control panel. I've been playing the Robotron so often I really don't want to be swapping control panels so I started collecting the parts to make a Joust build. Not a whole lot of decisions to make since I'll be pretty much trying to copy what I built for the Robotron cabinet. I've got almost all the parts. Couldn't order the Williams medium speaker grill yet since its been out of stock but it sounds like the guy that made the last batch is doing another run this quarter so I'm crossing my fingers that will be available soon.

The last item to sort out is the CRT. What I'd really like to do is repair the CRT that came out of my Defender cab and then reinstall it so I can utilize the K7000 CRT in the Joust cab. I bought one last year that had a tube swap and it looks awesome. The K4600 from the Defender I had done a cap kit and changed out almost everything on the neck board and the colors were terrible and convergence is bad. I bought a tube restorer off eBay but never tried it out. Thinking of trying to make it up to a repair party in Phoenix this month to see what the talented guys suggest.

The only other decision I can think of is the side panel color. I kinda like the black they used on Joust 2 so can I dare to be a rebel with a Joust marquee and Joust 2 side panel colors?

Updated with the completed Joust cab:

leapinlew · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2020, 05:28:08 pm »

If you got the room, a joust cocktail is the best looking cocktail of them all.

Gilrock · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2020, 09:05:42 pm »

I decided to take a stab at using the Sencore CR70 I bought last year to rejuv the tube. I watched a video and read the instructions and tried it out. It made a huge difference I seem to have my red gun back again. Now I can put that CRT back in the Defender and use the K7000 in the Defender for this build. I just need to see if I can get the horizontal adjusted. I remember the horz width coil had gotten damaged and I believe I got it fixed using hot glue so its not adjustable anymore. And the horizontal positioning sucks on this CRT. Instead of a pot it has 3 posts you can move a wire onto and none of them seem to really move the screen.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2020, 11:18:32 am »

Looking forward to seeing how awesome this one turns out..

Gilrock · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2020, 10:57:44 am »

Got the top piece of the control panel cut this morning after 2 fails last night. First I had the joystick pockets turned wrong and the top buttons I had measured to the edge instead of the center. The other fail was forgetting that the pockets on the underside needed to shift over when the piece is flipped over. I bought these plates from Boulder Arcade Factory for like $15 so that saved me a bunch of time. Pretty sure the originals are not like this but its nice to hold the dust washers captive like on Robotron.

leapinlew · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2020, 01:15:18 pm »

Looks great!

javeryh · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2020, 01:52:29 pm »

Nice job - so those plates are flush mounted to the top of the panel with countersunk screws? Art over the top?

Gilrock · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2020, 02:12:58 pm »

Quote from: javeryh on February 15, 2020, 01:52:29 pm

Nice job - so those plates are flush mounted to the top of the panel with countersunk screws? Art over the top?

Yep it basically creates a pocket for the dust washer. The original probably didn't have a dust washer because my Defender doesn't.

Gilrock · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2020, 05:44:56 pm »

Got the control panel ready to apply the overlay:

Gilrock · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2020, 05:49:53 pm »

A view of the underside of the panel:

Gilrock · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2020, 10:47:57 pm »

So how stiff should the two-way joysticks feel on Joust? I bought two of the two-way joystick rebuild kits from ArcadeShop and they feel completely different. I measure the space in the middle and there is a 1mm difference which makes one of them feel too tight and the other feels too loose. I haven't installed the switches yet so not sure how much that tightens up the feel. I guess I can bend the sides a little to try to adjust them if I know what to shoot for.

Arroyo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2020, 08:04:54 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 21, 2020, 10:47:57 pm

So how stiff should the two-way joysticks feel on Joust? I bought two of the two-way joystick rebuild kits from ArcadeShop and they feel completely different. I measure the space in the middle and there is a 1mm difference which makes one of them feel too tight and the other feels too loose. I haven't installed the switches yet so not sure how much that tightens up the feel. I guess I can bend the sides a little to try to adjust them if I know what to shoot for.

Like your Robotron, this is coming out beautifully. Still jealous of that CNC even if it isn’t much of a time saver.

Looks like you bought original Williams style sticks. The routing required on those almost seems to demand a CNC, but I’m sure it will be worth it.

The original William sticks suffer from a bad design however. The pivot points at the bottom of the joystick to the joystick housing are bare metal on metal. Keeping it constantly lubricated helps prevent the metal from wearing away but it’s a losing battle.

A member on here (jimmer) solved for this by creating an add on to the joystick housing that introduces bearings for the pivot point and prevents that metal erosion. I have read several online mentions that “world class Defender players” only use it since it came out. As you probably know it’s the same stick as the ones in Joust. If it were me I would highly consider investing in them:

https://www.jbgaming.co.uk/controls/zeroplay-bearing-kit/

Gilrock · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2020, 08:45:03 am »

Cool I'll check that out. Defender is the only real cab I own so I opened it up this morning to look at the joystick because its so much stiffer than these brand new ones. I mean I had this one that was tight but that was just a slight bend on one of the metal pieces I don't think the design was depending on that metal pinching pressure. What I noticed is my Defender has much better leaf switches. The ones I bought from ArcadeShop don't have the extra spring supports so they feel really loose.

Gilrock · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:04:27 am »

This video shows the difference between my build with brand new parts and this 38 year old Defender joystick. Kinda disappointed it seems like you just can't buy anything as good as it used to be. I thought I could swap out the switches for the Wico switches they have at ArcadeShop then I realized I had one of their Wico joysticks so I pulled the switches but wasn't able to install them because the plastic piece I thought would provide extra stiffness doesn't have through holes for mounting in fact they molded posts on the plastic that insert into the mounting holes.

Gilrock · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:13:57 am »

This is what the Defender switches look like. They have those extra pieces of material at the contact point and that really stiffens up the action. I don't know if that came with the switches or they were add-on pieces.

Arroyo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:20:37 am »

If you look at the link I provided above you may notice that he has a drop in replacement stick that’s built from the ground up (called Zero Play 2way). On that he has leafs that are what I think you are looking for:

I’d be willing to bet he could sell you those leafs separately as well.

Gilrock · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:35:15 am »

You know I already bought one of those two-way sticks back when I was planning to build a Defender control panel for my cab. It was before I bought a Defender. I'll pull it out and look but I only got 1.

I did some searching on KLOV and found a link from Lon and discovered these repro steel springs that looks like they will provide the support that's in the original sticks.

https://www.arcadefixit.com/product.sc?productId=2378&categoryId=-1

Gilrock · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:36:10 am »

If I didn't find those I'd probably make my own.

Gilrock · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:41:32 am »

Yep I found my zero-play 2-way joystick and he does have the stiffener spring and there is a piece of material between that and the switch that looks like it provides electrical isolation. I gotta believe someone sells these pieces unless that guy is making them from scratch.

Gilrock · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2020, 12:20:21 pm »

I pulled the parts off the 2-way zero play joystick and you can see the steel spring and the electrical isolation material. I've messaged to see if I can buy more of these switch setups. That zero play joystick feels pretty nice. I would probably have tried to use it if I hadn't already ordered all those other parts but it doesn't look like he had the blue and yellow handles.

Gilrock · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2020, 12:43:08 pm »

I installed those switch parts so at least player 1 will feel right for now. Here's the panel ready to be wired up. All that measuring and retries and I still have a small misalignment with the overlay and the oval holes. I swear the overlay was matching up to the wood so it makes me think the holes weren't centered in those metal pieces I bought but I never measured. Oh well not redoing it...lol.

javeryh · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2020, 01:15:37 pm »

Wow - looks great. Joust artwork is sooooo nice.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2020, 01:26:50 pm »

Nice work - I really like Joust.. if I could find a project/restoration.. I'd be all over it.

Gilrock · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2020, 09:32:53 pm »

Didn't want to hijack Mike's thread anymore so I figured I post my router pic in my own thread. This was when it was first assembled before I attached a spoiler board on top:

bperkins01 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2020, 10:02:17 pm »

You guys are killing me.. I suppose if I spent a month and cleaned out the basement - I could make even more shop space.. but at that point - my shop space would be larger than my living space in sq feet.. The wife would just take the space anyway... Nice machine!

javeryh · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2020, 09:19:22 am »

I'm so jealous. My garage "workshop" has no lights and no floor (it's a mix of dirt and crumbling asphalt) and the only space I have top do anything is a 2' x 4' workbench because I need room for my lawnmower, snowblower, 5 bikes, 3 scooters, rakes, leaf blower, etc. I have to set my compound mitre saw on the bare ground when I want to use my router or do something on the table. I'm looking into what it would cost to pour a cement floor and hang some OSB over insulation on the bare studs but I don't think there's any way the wife will go for it.

Mike A · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2020, 09:36:11 am »

CNC Router Parts has some good designs.

If I ever decide to buy a larger machine it would probably be one of theirs.

Gilrock · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2020, 09:38:40 am »

javeryh….if it was my house the way it would go is the wife would find me out there mixing concrete and start yelling about what am I doing? Then she calms down and I proceed with whatever I want. It already happened with this cab. I had already ordered all the parts and then a couple Saturdays ago she noticed I was running the CNC all day and said what are you building? Um...another arcade cab. What?

Where do you think you're gonna put that? I look to the corner in the bedroom and said looks like room to put it there...lol. I just let the yelling happen and I don't yell back then I just proceed with whatever I want and she calms down...

Arroyo · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2020, 09:45:27 am »

Jesus, this one had me in stitches.

You’re the man Gil

javeryh · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2020, 10:23:28 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 25, 2020, 09:38:40 am

javeryh….if it was my house the way it would go is the wife would find me out there mixing concrete and start yelling about what am I doing? Then she calms down and I proceed with whatever I want. It already happened with this cab. I had already ordered all the parts and then a couple Saturdays ago she noticed I was running the CNC all day and said what are you building? Um...another arcade cab. What? Where do you think you're gonna put that? I look to the corner in the bedroom and said looks like room to put it there...lol. I just let the yelling happen and I don't yell back then I just proceed with whatever I want and she calms down...

Are you me?

Seriously - I did the exact same thing with the cab I just started. She went out for the day and I just thought "F it" and I cut out the side panels. She flipped out when she got home - same questions: "What are you building?" Where do you think you are going to put this?" "How much is this going to cost?" "Don't you think you have enough of these?" Now that she has had time to process it she doesn't say anything but it's such a tough sell.

Glad to know it's not just me.

Gilrock · « **Reply #30 on:** February 25, 2020, 07:25:01 pm »

Got some of the parts put together and temporarily mounted the control panel. Now I'm waiting for some parts like the marquee and bezel cause I use those pieces to determine exact placement of several items. I ordered from ThisOldGame a few weeks ago and I believe they've gathered the sand and are beginning to create plastic and glass from it.

MiteWiseacre · « **Reply #31 on:** February 26, 2020, 05:58:28 pm »

That’s so funny, the stories about your wives realizing what your building. Same thing here, she’s been finding little clues like a sketch or seeing me looking up parts online... she hasn’t mentioned it but was home when I built a frame for a decased tv, I’m sure she knows where this is leading.
Anyway, your build is looking really sharp, did you mention how you plan to do the finishing? I want to use plywood also instead of mdf and wonder how much filler I’ll have to mess with.

Gilrock · « **Reply #32 on:** February 27, 2020, 08:31:54 am »

Quote from: MiteWiseacre on February 26, 2020, 05:58:28 pm

That’s so funny, the stories about your wives realizing what your building. Same thing here, she’s been finding little clues like a sketch or seeing me looking up parts online... she hasn’t mentioned it but was home when I built a frame for a decased tv, I’m sure she knows where this is leading.
Anyway, your build is looking really sharp, did you mention how you plan to do the finishing? I want to use plywood also instead of mdf and wonder how much filler I’ll have to mess with.

Thanks....I'm probably just going to spray 2 or 3 coats of paint on it. I bought the higher quality birch plywood so its really smooth to begin with. If you lookup my Robotron build last year I wasted a ton of time trying to get the base coat right. Most of those issues turned out to be with the metallic paint I tried to use. Once I switched I knocked it out fast. After having that cab in the house for a year I'm convinced trying to get a mirror finish look is a waste of time. Not that I got that look on the Robotron either but that's what I mean. It was just average and I'm happy with it. Still looks better than the original paint jobs.

Gilrock · « **Reply #33 on:** January 11, 2021, 09:10:28 am »

Well I waited all year for bezel and stencils to show up but TOG sent my stuff to people that ordered after I did so I cancelled my bezel order and got one from ArcadeShop and I had to complain to get my stencils back on the radar and they claim they will ship this week. In any case I took the Christmas break as an opportunity to move forward and then come back to the painting later. The cabinet is now up and running and I can learn to play Joust. Not that I've never played I just never got any good. Played doubles with my son and he beat me first game having never seen it before...lol. And yes I know it doesn't have a lower coin door. If anybody would like to sell me 2 of them I'll install them in my Robotron and Joust. Since I tend to play on free play anyways I kinda feel like I should leave original doors for the guys doing restores but if they made reproduction doors I'd buy them. The first image is before I installed the monitor. There was less sunlight coming in the garage and you can see the colors better.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:12:14 am »

Nice looking Joust

I just finished mine.. TOG really got all messed up due to Covid.. They seem to have been getting all of the very old orders flushed out of their system finally..
Its a fun game..

I thought I saw someone on KLOV potentially reproducing the coin doors...

javeryh · « **Reply #35 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:19:26 am »

Wow looks great. I just love the artwork and the control panel is beautiful. I don't know why but it just makes me happy to look at a classic cabinet in great shape.

Joust is a really fun game - I also stink at it though. Takes some real skill to play, which I do not have. I can memorize a pattern and that's about it. Man, I am so jealous of you guys with all the room for these things.

Gilrock · « **Reply #36 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:23:16 am »

Quote from: bperkins01 on January 11, 2021, 10:12:14 am

Nice looking Joust

I just finished mine.. TOG really got all messed up due to Covid.. They seem to have been getting all of the very old orders flushed out of their system finally..
Its a fun game..

I thought I saw someone on KLOV potentially reproducing the coin doors...

Yeah but if you read your thread history its clear I ordered before you. I had my Marquee and you were wondering why yours didn't come in. Also you said at the time they were not accepting new bezel orders and my bezel order was already placed. I don't care if they got behind but they did not deliver the oldest orders first. Nothing against you I'm just disappointed in them.

Gilrock · « **Reply #37 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:25:29 am »

Quote from: javeryh on January 11, 2021, 10:19:26 am

...I don't know why but it just makes me happy to look at a classic cabinet in great shape.

Just to clarify this was not a restoration I designed this cabinet when I built my Robotron so I built the cab from the ground up. It being driven by a JROK board.

Gilrock · « **Reply #38 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:29:15 am »

The worst thing is you get it running and want to show it off so I bring the wife to the garage and all she can say is "Why did you pick that game to build?" LOL

bperkins01 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 11, 2021, 10:49:33 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on January 11, 2021, 10:23:16 am

Quote from: bperkins01 on January 11, 2021, 10:12:14 am
Nice looking Joust

I just finished mine.. TOG really got all messed up due to Covid.. They seem to have been getting all of the very old orders flushed out of their system finally..
Its a fun game..

I thought I saw someone on KLOV potentially reproducing the coin doors...

Yeah but if you read your thread history its clear I ordered before you. I had my Marquee and you were wondering why yours didn't come in. Also you said at the time they were not accepting new bezel orders and my bezel order was already placed. I don't care if they got behind but they did not deliver the oldest orders first. Nothing against you I'm just disappointed in them.

I think what really happened is.. (and this is my opinion - not a known fact) .. is they switched ordering systems and they maybe had difficulty with finding the old orders.. I had to go back, find my Paypal order# and then she searched for it.. and then things started moving..
What worked for me was picking up the phone and calling them .. They don't communicate well and probably never will. People say its no way to run a business - but they have been in business for 20 years.. My gut tells me they are starting to catch up.. but anyone who ordered early this year got the worst case scenario..

Gilrock · « **Reply #40 on:** January 11, 2021, 11:37:17 am »

Yes I got the feeling my order was lost until I emailed them last week. They do seem to be the only game in town for stencils. The do deliver nice stuff.

Arroyo · « **Reply #41 on:** January 11, 2021, 02:04:40 pm »

Nice progress Gil, she's looking great.

Not sure if this will ultimately be helpful or not but there was a guy on KLOV that was reporoducing the coin box door. He made a run awhile back. He may have some more and or there may be enough interest to make another run. Here's the thread for reference (it's only viewable once you've logged in, so if you don't have an account you will have to create one).

.......I go over to grab the link and see you already posted LOL

Gilrock · « **Reply #42 on:** January 11, 2021, 03:10:28 pm »

Quote from: Arroyo on January 11, 2021, 02:04:40 pm

.......I go over to grab the link and see you already posted LOL

Yep went looking this morning and found that....lol

Gilrock · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2021, 11:41:48 am »

I got the first side almost done. I admire the guys that can spray both sides of the cab at the same time. I have a hard enough time getting the stencil placed right with it laying flat and I worry about the paint dripping if I sprayed a vertical surface. I've always seemed to do one pass too many. What makes it harder is the stencils tend to have wrinkles in the top laminate sheet because of being rolled up in a tube I guess. That makes it hard to align the triangles. And I messed up on the first day and pulled off the top triangle so I was having to wing it with the alignment. For the second two stencils I had a section where I just ended up cutting part of the stencil off so I could place it individually to get equal spacing and then had to tape all over the cuts. I've been only waiting 24 hours between colors which worked out fine except the last stencil. It pulled the darn eyeball off so I gotta fix that but I'll probably wait an extra day to be safe.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2021, 12:04:19 pm »

Well that looks familiar! Nice work..

The stencil process is a bit nerve wracking.. You need to get it right 6 times..
However - the results are worth it

vertexguy · « **Reply #45 on:** January 22, 2021, 12:26:10 pm »

Looks great! I can't imagine the challenges of stenciling this out. From the photo it looks like a nice smooth surface finish.

javeryh · « **Reply #46 on:** January 22, 2021, 03:06:54 pm »

This looks amazing. Nothing beats stencil art on an arcade cabinet. Well done!

Gilrock · « **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2021, 03:30:43 pm »

Thanks guys...yes I was on edge every time I pulled the stencil. First layer I forgot to get help and got 2/3's of the way through pulling it off and things were looking dicey so I just started pulling it fast like don't give the pieces time to fall back on the surface. Got it off and went...Whew!

Also I cut the same shape as my Robotron which didn't exactly match the stencil so if you look you can see how tight it was getting the lance to not get cutoff up near the marquee and the back side is right up to the edge as well as getting the lance to not poke past the top but still have the Williams symbol not too close to the edge.

bobbyb13 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 23, 2021, 07:08:16 am »

Outstanding work. That looks awesome.

javeryh · « **Reply #49 on:** January 23, 2021, 09:58:00 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on January 22, 2021, 03:30:43 pm

Thanks guys...yes I was on edge every time I pulled the stencil. First layer I forgot to get help and got 2/3's of the way through pulling it off and things were looking dicey so I just started pulling it fast like don't give the pieces time to fall back on the surface. Got it off and went...Whew!

Also I cut the same shape as my Robotron which didn't exactly match the stencil so if you look you can see how tight it was getting the lance to not get cutoff up near the marquee and the back side is right up to the edge as well as getting the lance to not poke past the top but still have the Williams symbol not too close to the edge.

The thing I've noticed over the years is that no one will ever notice the minor imperfections except for you and even then you will forget after a while. Side art looks amazing out of the corner of the eye but it's not something that gets stared at. That said, I can't see any errors in your work so you did an outstanding job.

Arroyo · « **Reply #50 on:** January 23, 2021, 11:07:24 am »

Fantastic work Gil, that looks outstanding. You guys sure are raising the bar.

Gilrock · « **Reply #51 on:** January 23, 2021, 11:58:50 am »

Thanks but I'm not raising any bars I pretty much just try to copy what's already out there....lol. Right now I'm building 2 NES bartops from edekoning's design except I had to spend 5 hours in SketchUp redesigning to fit a wider monitor.

Gilrock · « **Reply #52 on:** April 02, 2021, 03:56:19 pm »

Just to close this thread out I've a photo of the finished cab sitting beside my Robotron build:

J_K_M_A_N · « **Reply #53 on:** April 03, 2021, 10:08:55 am »

That is super sexy! Very well done.

Awesome game.

J_K_M_A_N

circusfreak · « **Reply #54 on:** April 04, 2021, 09:59:42 pm »

Both of those look amazing! Great work, dude!
2 of my favorite games.

Mike A · « **Reply #55 on:** April 04, 2021, 10:03:01 pm »

Those are some pretty cabs.

bobbyb13 · « **Reply #56 on:** April 05, 2021, 03:35:02 am »

Beautiful.

Makes me wish even more that there were real cabs around here still. $:-\$

bperkins01 · « **Reply #57 on:** April 05, 2021, 07:24:46 am »

Looks like a Flyer for the games.
Nice work!

javeryh · « **Reply #58 on:** April 05, 2021, 10:13:17 am »

F'ing beautiful.


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