Adventures in newer (optical) pc steering wheel hacking

[Fursphere]

I thought Logitech announced that they were officially dropping support for consoles in the (near) future though? 

[BadMouth]

I thought Logitech announced that they were officially dropping support for consoles in the (near) future though?

They did announce that they were exiting the console accessory market, but never clarified whether they considered the wheels to be a PC or console accessory.  If it's not that much extra work to have it compatible with a console that uses a usb interface, why not?

There were also stories around that time that they had stopped production of the G27 and were pulling stock from certain regions and repackaging it to cover the demand in the U.S.  There was a time when everyone was out of stock, but there seems to be plenty now so I guess they made more at some point.

Given their financial situation, I wouldn't expect them to be coming out with a new wheel.    ...but given their financial situation, it might make sense to pull a weird move like reworking your already complete stock as a new product.

It is odd that the three parts the seller has are the pcb, complete front center portion of steering wheel (biggest cosmetic part), and feedback motor with bracket.  EDIT: Instead of "more than 10", ebay now shows 9 available, 3 sold.  So I guess it's not a factory rework. 

Just heard back from them and they have no cables or connectors. 
 

[slamminsam]

I have.
(ordered the encoder from this seller a while back, but haven't tested it yet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330824661021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 It's either an Omron or a knockoff with Omron written on it.  Way nice for the price)

Did you ever get a chance to test the encoder? Also, do you you think this one would work (with gearing)?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271280100498?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[BadMouth]

I have.
(ordered the encoder from this seller a while back, but haven't tested it yet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330824661021?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 It's either an Omron or a knockoff with Omron written on it.  Way nice for the price)

Did you ever get a chance to test the encoder? Also, do you you think this one would work (with gearing)?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271280100498?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Still haven't hooked it up.  All there is to do is make a bracket for it, but I've never gotten around to it.
Too many projects and I only work on what I'm excited about at the moment.
I've got a huge pile of driving stuff that I just haven't felt like working on.
Can't seem to get anything done unless I take a day off work and don't tell anyone.

That's an awesome price on that encoder.   
In theory, anything will work with the right gearing.

[slamminsam]

That's an awesome price on that encoder.   
In theory, anything will work with the right gearing.

Searching for "rotary encoder" as opposed to optical seems to yield quite a few more results.

I ordered that one and received it yesterday. It didn't work with the hacked mouse I've been using for testing, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different types of encoders and interfaces. If time and opportunity permits I plan on testing it with the wheel in the next few days. I also bought one of the Driving Force GT boards off of eBay, so maybe I'll set it up to test. Much better to smoke that one during testing instead of the G27 one.


Too many projects, not enough time has been my mantra.

[BadMouth]

That's an awesome price on that encoder.   
In theory, anything will work with the right gearing.

Searching for "rotary encoder" as opposed to optical seems to yield quite a few more results.

I ordered that one and received it yesterday. It didn't work with the hacked mouse I've been using for testing, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different types of encoders and interfaces. If time and opportunity permits I plan on testing it with the wheel in the next few days. I also bought one of the Driving Force GT boards off of eBay, so maybe I'll set it up to test. Much better to smoke that one during testing instead of the G27 one.


Too many projects, not enough time has been my mantra.

Opti-Wiz is cheap and simple if you happen to be placing an order with ggg anytime soon.
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_85&products_id=260
I've used it with resolutions from 12ppr to 900ppr (the spinners ggg sells are 1200ppr).
Nothing much to it.  Shows up as a USB mouse.  No configuration or anything.

I'm not sure of what all capabilities it has, but I've been wanting to order this:
http://www.usdigital.com/products/interfaces/pc/usb/QSB
Coupled with their software:
http://www.usdigital.com/support/software/qsb-quadrature-to-usb-adapter-software
I think it would be very useful in determining proper counts for steering wheel hacks.
First to measure the number of pulses lock to lock of the stock wheel, then to help match that count when setting up the hack.

It's pretty high up on my list of stuff to buy when I sell off unused arcade parts for "fun money", but I don't want it bad enough to take the money out of my budget. (although I seem to spend money out of my budget like water anyway)

[slamminsam]

That's an awesome price on that encoder.   
In theory, anything will work with the right gearing.

Searching for "rotary encoder" as opposed to optical seems to yield quite a few more results.

I ordered that one and received it yesterday. It didn't work with the hacked mouse I've been using for testing, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different types of encoders and interfaces. If time and opportunity permits I plan on testing it with the wheel in the next few days. I also bought one of the Driving Force GT boards off of eBay, so maybe I'll set it up to test. Much better to smoke that one during testing instead of the G27 one.


Too many projects, not enough time has been my mantra.

Opti-Wiz is cheap and simple if you happen to be placing an order with ggg anytime soon.
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_85&products_id=260
I've used it with resolutions from 12ppr to 900ppr (the spinners ggg sells are 1200ppr).
Nothing much to it.  Shows up as a USB mouse.  No configuration or anything.

I'm not sure of what all capabilities it has, but I've been wanting to order this:
http://www.usdigital.com/products/interfaces/pc/usb/QSB
Coupled with their software:
http://www.usdigital.com/support/software/qsb-quadrature-to-usb-adapter-software
I think it would be very useful in determining proper counts for steering wheel hacks.
First to measure the number of pulses lock to lock of the stock wheel, then to help match that count when setting up the hack.

It's pretty high up on my list of stuff to buy when I sell off unused arcade parts for "fun money", but I don't want it bad enough to take the money out of my budget. (although I seem to spend money out of my budget like water anyway)

My plan was to buy and optical/keyboard encoder later in the project – due to budget – but at that price I’ll have to order one of those now. I’ve grown to really dislike the mouse hack for testing. I have one in my dedicated trackball cabinet and it works great for that, but it was plug it in and forget it.

I saw your original post on the QSB interface and it looks promising. If money wasn’t an issue I’d have to get one but 10 bucks here and 40 bucks there really ad up quickly.  Like you, I periodically sell of my unused stuff for fun money; however, the proceeds from my next batch are already earmarked for other toys.

[Mcewena]

Hello old thread.

I replaced my g25’s encoder wheel and everything seemed to go well but windows 10 doesn’t detect wheel motion.  I’m getting voltage changes on the A& B pins and there’s no damage to the boards or connectors.   Any ideas?

[PL1]

I replaced my g25’s encoder wheel and everything seemed to go well but windows 10 doesn’t detect wheel motion.  I’m getting voltage changes on the A& B pins and there’s no damage not the boards or connectors.   Any ideas?

As long as those voltage changes are between logic high and logic low levels, it indicates that the optical circuits are working properly and that the encoder wheel spokes are blocking/unblocking the sensor as expected.
- If the voltages don't reach logic high levels, the outer rim of the encoder wheel might be partly blocking the sensor.

Also, did you use an exact matching replacement encoder wheel?  (Spacing might be different.)




Scott

[Mcewena]

> Also, did you use an exact matching replacement encoder wheel?  (Spacing might be different.)

It was a brass one sold as a replacement for that models plastic one, so other than being thinner it was the same.   I tried swapping back to the old plastic one, no dice.

[PL1]

It was a brass one sold as a replacement for that models plastic one, so other than being thinner it was the same.   I tried swapping back to the old plastic one, no dice.

Another possibiility is that the device isn't being recognized by Windows for some reason.
- Does it show up as expected in Windows Control Panel -- Devices and Printers?

If it does, that takes us back to the logic high and low levels.
- What are the actual voltages you measure for high and low on pins A and B?

Assuming that those high/low voltages are within the standard range for logic levels, is there no cursor motion at all in Windows when you turn the wheel, or does it wobble back and forth one step?
- No motion is either two damaged data line traces/wires or a problem with the optical encoder/USB.
- One step is either a damaged data line trace/wire or a problem with the optical encoder/USB.


Scott

[Mcewena]

Yep, I even deleted/reinstalled the device to see if it was a ghost reference and it found it right away.  No movement at all on the wheel axis in the device setup or in any sim.

A & B measured at the input pins to the main board (as pictured earlier in the thread) goes between 0 and 4.6v and 0 and 2.6v respectively, hard to get an accurate reading with my lcd multimeter.

That tells me the optical sensor and its mini board are working.  Main board looks intact and I practically never touched it to replace the wheel on the mini board.

[PL1]

A & B measured at the input pins to the main board (as pictured earlier in the thread) goes between 0 and 4.6v and 0 and 2.6v respectively, hard to get an accurate reading with my lcd multimeter.

If you're saying that one data line alternates between 0 and 4.6 volts and the other data line alternates between 0 and 2.6 volts, please measure again to be sure since both data lines should be operating at the same logic high and low voltages.
- You need to very slowly turn the wheel a short distance to change the data line between logic high and low.
- As soon as it changes, stop turning the wheel to give the multimeter a chance to catch up.

If you still measure one line as only going up to 2.6v, you can test wheel/sensor alignment by removing the wheel and manually blocking/unblocking the sensor with a piece of thin cardboard.
- If the data line still only goes up to 2.6v, it's probably something in the optical circuit.
- If the data line now goes up to 4.6v, it's wheel/sensor alignment.

Main board looks intact and I practically never touched it to replace the wheel on the mini board.

The optical encoder chip could have been fried by an electrostatic discharge.   


Scott

[Mcewena]

Going slow and stopping at (I assume) fully blocked or open I can get 4.8v on either.

>The optical encoder chip could have been fried

It must be something like that 'cause I don't see any physical damage except on the mini board in the wheel hub that takes the signal from the 2 switches in the wheel.   

I don't suppose anybody parts out that sort of thing?

New units seem to be stuck in container ships somewhere.

[PL1]

I don't suppose anybody parts out that sort of thing?

Didn't find a schematic so no idea which type of chip Logitech uses for that.   

If you can chase the data lines to a chip and post the part number and a decent pic, we'll see what we can find.


Scott

[Mcewena]

Here goes,  encoder pins are upper right of 1st attachment, upper left of 2nd.

[PL1]

Here goes,  encoder pins are upper right of 1st attachment, upper left of 2nd.

Thanks for posting the pics, but haven't found any useful info -- not sure which pins are the data lines, where those traces lead, which IC they feed into, or the part numbers of most of the ICs.   


Scott

[Mcewena]

Yeah unfortunately my electrical era is more points & condenser then IC. 

If by data lines you mean the A & B signal, I *think* this is them but even then the part # is obsured.

Not sure how much further I'm going to take this for a 15yo piece of hardware, thanks for your input.