Gunblade (positional gun) cabinet for emulation

[vholfx]

There's a cheap Gunblade (without game board) cabinet for sale I'm considering getting, but I'm not sure what the current state of using this type of arcade guns is for emulation (or even other arcade games other than Gunblade).

Any thoughts? I've read some conflicting posts here regarding the A-Pac being detected as a joystick but some emulators expecting a mouse. How about mame? does it work well with an A-PAC and this type of guns?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks.

[Zebra]

I have one of those Gunblade / LA Machine guns positional guns. They work for mame with an Apac.

Here is me testing it when I first got it:



And here's me using it to play Alien 3 on a big screen:



I can't honestly say I recommend these guns for a mame cab. They only have one button so you'll have to drill holes for a grenade button. The recoil mechanism is OK but it's not my favorite. It's a motor and therefore only suitable for full auto only games. It doesn't make a satisfying thumping sound like my other arcade guns. Plus, it doesn't pivot on the grip like other fixed guns so you can't use it as an analog stick for flight games.

If you can wait, I'd recommend a T2 or Gen X fixed gun cab instead. Midway fixed guns are awesome. Even in the video you can here how awesome the recoil is:



This is the brush-motor recoil mech from the Gunblade guns so you'll know what you're getting:



The model 2 emulator only allows mouse input for gun games which is annoying as you can't use the real arcade gun for LA machine guns as a plug in and play. You'll need to use one of those joystick to mouse programs.

[vholfx]

Wow fantastic info, I do appreciate it!

What about using it with a model 2 emulator? I'd be fine with leaving it as a dedicated Gunblade cabinet if it works well with it but as I mentioned, someone posted it wasn't possible due to the mouse vs joystick issue.

As for mame, I could wire extra buttons to it, and the feedback I can live with.

The cab is being offered for 200$ but I could probably offer 150$. T2 cabs are really sought after around this parts so I doubt I'll find one that cheap.

[Zebra]

$200 is cheap enough to make it worth it although it's not just about the money. If you only have room for one cab, the question is if you want it to be this one. That's for you to decide.

Try searching for Generation X cabs. They don't attract the same premium as T2 but the guns are the same besides the plastic shell.

For the model 2 emulator, you can use it but only with a joystick to mouse program with an absolute mouse mode. That applies to any gun that acts as an analog joystick.

[vholfx]

Space is not a problem for now, I have room for a few more cabs.

My main concern right now is that I don't know how well the model 2 emulator will work  (gun accuracy and such)  given the little info I found.

[Howard_Casto]

For model 2 games use troubleshooter 2 …. I made it accept joystick inputs and it'll send recoil on to mamehooker. 

[Zebra]

Space is not a problem for now, I have room for a few more cabs.

My main concern right now is that I don't know how well the model 2 emulator will work  (gun accuracy and such)  given the little info I found.

I've seen it work pretty well if set up right. I'm sure someone here will help or just send you a file with the M2 emulator already set up to work with analog guns.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about model 2 gun games. There aren't that many decent fixed gun games on that platform. Obviously that's a matter of opinion. The one I'm trying to figure out for myself is later PC based arcades like Alien Extermination which don't have a compatibility layer like Teknoparrot to assign your own controls. The original arcade used analog guns but only a mouse patch currently exists (at least that I can find). Either way, you are going to want to figure out a joystick to mouse solution.

You can also use analog guns for Sega Type 2 gun games (which is every one since HOD2). Those guns output an analog X Y signal just like positional guns. Games like HOD4 in Teknoparrot work well with them). You can even use positional guns in place of their IR guns on original Sega arcade PCBs.

[vholfx]

Zebra, that's fantastic info thank you! I was wondering exactly that regarding using the guns for other non-positional games. I thought it might work, but it's great to have confirmation.

Would you take a look at my other thread?

[Zebra]

Once you get a few real arcade guns working, it can become it's own addiction. I ended up wanting to play every arcade game with exactly the right type of gun. That's why I have more than 30 gun controllers.

A gun game fan is going to want a set of positional guns, a set of recoil light gun pistols, a set of IR recoil guns and at least one shot gun style light gun as a minimum. Then, you start wondering if you can really live with playing Silent scope with an Operation Thunderbolt gun, or if a Time Crisis pistol really works for Crisis Zone and it's back to Ebay...

Incidentally, you're also going to want to hack a PS2 pad because Apac's are not compatible with anything except Windows PCs. I wanted to use my positional guns on my PS3 and the PS2 rail shooters with no light gun support. It is apparently impossible with an Apac. They don't even work via adapters.

[vholfx]

Oh I absolutely know what you mean. 3 months ago I was collecting SNES games, then I got my first arcade cab ever (New Astro City) and look at me, I'm now own several and finding deals out there to get more, it's an addiction.

I'm also looking at a Steel Gunner cabinet, this one is more expensive since it's fully working and in a comercial establishment, but I was wondering if you have played around with its guns (It has Namco guns, not Taito guns converted from Operation Thunderbolt, don't know how different those are but I guess it's worth mentioning).

It reminds me of T2 cabinet, I wonder how well T2 game will fill in it.

[Zebra]

I have a Steel Gunner gun. They are identical to the Operation Thunderbolt gun inside and out. Only the sticker on the base differs.

I love the look of these guns but not how they feel. The problem is that their gears have a really narrow range of movement. It's kinda frustrating. I have real trouble pointing them to both edges of the screen. I remember thinking the same when I was a kid playing Op Thunderbolt in the arcades. I like the guns iron sights to line up with the crosshairs. These ones are near impossible to calibrate well.

I guess they are OK if you only play Op Thunderbolt in 2 player mode so each gun only has to cover half the screen. This is the main reason I prefer to use my Gen X guns. They move more than enough and motion feels far smoother. Both have outstanding recoil. Op thunderbolt shells look nicer as they look like a real gun instead of a science fiction gun. But, the shells are interchangeable. I.e. You can put an op thunderbolt shell on a Gen X stick and gear mechanism. Similarly, you can probably switch out the Op Thunderbolt gun gear mechanism if it becomes a problem.

More importantly, It's worth asking if you really want to invest in two fixed gun cabs before getting a light gun and IR gun cab. Ideally you'd want at least one of each type. If you are going to spend some money, America's Army cabs are currently the holly grail of light gun mame cabs. There is usually a few on ebay. There were two others available when I bought mine recently.

My solution to wanting more fixed guns is that I'm working on a fixed gun pedestal on wheels (that lock). The pedestal will have 5 or 6 different fixed guns. Being on wheels, I'll be able to move it to use the gun I want for each game. At the side will be holsters for my light guns and my House of the Dead 4 guns. I like the idea of one gun cab that does it all so I have room for a twin racing cab and maybe one with an analog flight stick.

[vholfx]

Well, I'm going to try both cabs today and check them out, you're right I might not want 2 mounted guns arcade cabs, but I'm not in the US so finding ANY kind of cab is rather rare and there's little to choose from. I get what you mean about the gun range in Steel Gunner, I'll keep an eye on that when I do test it.

Would you put both Steel Gunner and Gunblade guns in the same level? or do you consider one better than the other?

I MIGHT get both, leave Steel Gunner original and turn Gunblade into a mame cab since it comes with no board. Still deciding but like I said, not that many options on this side of the world

[Zebra]

Well, I'm going to try both cabs today and check them out, you're right I might not want 2 mounted guns arcade cabs, but I'm not in the US so finding ANY kind of cab is rather rare and there's little to choose from. I get what you mean about the gun range in Steel Gunner, I'll keep an eye on that when I do test it.

Would you put both Steel Gunner and Gunblade guns in the same level? or do you consider one better than the other?

I MIGHT get both, leave Steel Gunner original and turn Gunblade into a mame cab since it comes with no board. Still deciding but like I said, not that many options on this side of the world

The Gunblade guns are very different to most other fixed arcade guns I have seen. It's a least 3 times the size (and weight). They don't pivot on the grip like the others so you would only be able to use them for gun games. I like to use my Gen X guns for games like Afterburner as they make awesome analog flight sticks. Duel purpose is a plus for a mame cab. Plus, recoil makes old flight games more fun.

Gunblade guns are a lot better in terms of their range of motion but can only be used for full auto only games due to the recoil being from a brush motor instead of a solenoid. If I had to choose one, I'd go with the Steel Gunner cab. Just make sure you can aim at both screen edges with both guns.

As you are going to try them, I suggest you get whichever one you find more comfortable to use. You are the one who will have to use them. I could never decide so I bought a whole bunch...

I seriously doubt you'll like the Steel Gunner game enough to keep the cab original. It sucks. You won't want a single game you'd never play taking up room IMO. If I was going to buy a dedicated one-game cab, I'd want one of the games that never got ported and doesn't work in mame. There is a lost generation of awesome arcades that nobody can play now.

My new house is a lot bigger so I have plans for a few myself. I'm on the look out for Blade of Honor, Tera Burst (or Op Thunder Hurricane), Star Wars Pod Racer or Raw Thrills Fast and Furious super bikes (or any decent dual motorbike cab).

I don't know where you live or what the market is like. If there are any active arcades nearby, I've had good luck asking owners to part with old arcade kit that no longer makes money. It does take a lot of patience though. You usually have to check ebay every day until that cab you want comes up somewhere close enough that you can go get it.

[vholfx]

I tried Steel Gunner today. Cab is in decent shape, markee is 10/10, side art is 7/10 but the rest is either gone or badly damaged (the artwork, not the cab itself). Monitor is pretty good. The guns are in great shape except for the recoil. If you lightly hold the tip of the gun and fire the recoil works, I was told "something is loose inside" but I have no idea so I'd be going blind hoping it can be repaired. This are not OP Thunderbolt, or at least not Taito, this say Namco here's a pic. Are such things repairable?

I was not able to check out the Gunblade cab, BUT since I've been asking around, I found someone with a Generation X cab in fully working condition but he wants 1,000 USD for it while Steel Gunner is going for 300 USD. It's not expensive in local standards, arcade cabs in general are quite expensive in Chile since not many made it here from Japan or the US.

I guess I'll check out the Gunblade cab before I make a final decision, I'm leaning towards Steel Gunner because I like the form factor, it reminds me of the arcades I played more than Gunblade does.

[Zebra]

Is it steel Gunner 1 or 2? If it's the one with Mac 10's then it's the same as the Op Thunderbolt guns. If it's the 22's with the round thing on the back, they aren't.

Namco sold the game in kit form as an upgrade for Op Thunderbolt cabs.

If the solenoids still work, they should be easy to fix. It's likely a loose wire or the diode needs replacing (a very common issue). If the solenoid doesn't work, they aren't easy or cheap to replace those recoil mechanisms. I'd only get one with working recoil or it will likely be cheaper to replace the whole gun. Finding drop-in replacement solenoids for arcade guns that old is near impossible unless you get lucky on eBay.

I don't know your financial situation but, for me, I'd rather pay more to get the cab I want than make a small saving to get stuck with one I don't like for the foreseeable future. Maybe the Gen X seller will take an offer. Arcade machines usually aren't that easy to sell as very few people want to put them in their homes. Anything expensive usually sits there unsold indefinitely. Offer him $500 and tell him you've been offered Gunblade for $300.

[vholfx]

It's Steel Gunner 1 with the 22's gun (with the round thing on the back). By the way, they work great in terms of range, I was able to reach across all screen without issues with both guns, I tested all 4 corners, all worked out. Maybe this are better than the Taito ones?

I guess the solenoids still work, there's a cylinder at the tip of the gun that goes in and out when I fire which is lose. If I hold it slightly, it will keep working but if I let it go it stops. Like I said, I was told there's a metal piece that holds that part of the gun which is either gone or worn out and I should be able to fix it. I'm not sure how much of that is true, but seems that way to me and I'm hopeful it can be repaired, what do you think?

As for the Generation X cab, that guy is not selling it, he's just willing to let it go for the price he's asking, so he has no incentive at all to lower the price (already asked, offered to pay in cash right there, he didn't even flinch, price is set on stone). I've seen this cabs being sold for up to 2k around here, so his price is actually not that bad, but not a bargain either.

At this point I think I will pass on the Gunblade (unless the guy accepts something like 100$ delivered, the cab is in really great shape). Room is not the issue but the time I have to work on this machines is, and I hate having non-working cabs for months or even years sitting around.

[Zebra]

The 22's are a completely different gun under the hood. If they feel nice in terms of motion, I'd go for it.

Personally, I don't care the look of those guns but I don't like the look of my Gen X guns either and it doesn't seem to matter when I am playing.

Luckily, there is s guy on ebay who has a few of recoil mechanisms for those guns for sale. He's asking to much but at least you have a back up option if it turns out not to be fixable.

In my experience, it's fairly common to be able to restore recoil solenoids back to factory performance by simply cleaning them and applying a decent lube. I use engine oil applied with a syringe. They get filthy over time and a lot of arcade owners neglect basic maintenance. Without regular oil, they overheat and break. If that doesn't work, change the diode and check the coil. If the coil isn't burnt out them almost everything else can be fixed.

[vholfx]

The 22's are a completely different gun under the hood. If they feel nice in terms of motion, I'd go for it.

Personally, I don't care the look of those guns but I don't like the look of my Gen X guns either and it doesn't seem to matter when I am playing.

Luckily, there is s guy on ebay who has a few of recoil mechanisms for those guns for sale. He's asking to much but at least you have a back up option if it turns out not to be fixable.

In my experience, it's fairly common to be able to restore recoil solenoids back to factory performance by simply cleaning them and applying a decent lube. I use engine oil applied with a syringe. They get filthy over time and a lot of arcade owners neglect basic maintenance. Without regular oil, they overheat and break. If that doesn't work, change the diode and check the coil. If the coil isn't burnt out them almost everything else can be fixed.

Great to hear this are fixable if the coil is good. I've attached a picture with an arrow pointing to the piece I have to hold slightly for the recoil mechanism to work, I was told there's a missing or worn out "washer or something" by the vendor, he insists that it can be replaced. What do you think?

[Zebra]

You need to buy some security screw drivers and open it up to see what's going on and, specifically, what you are actually doing when you push the end to make it recoil. You might be bridging a loose connection or helping the solenoid grip the brass knocker mechanism. Your gun has a long shaft with a brass knocker that should be attached to your solenoid. The "washer" may also refer to little grip that holds the spring and solenoid plunger in place.

Either way, you'll have to open it up to identify which wires go where. Once you do, the issue will likely be obvious. These devices are not complicated. Solenoids only have two wires (+ and -) going in with a diode between them.  While you are in there, make sure to clean the solenoid plunger and apply oil. I found automotive bearing oil to be the best but any long-lasting thin lube oil will work.

[vholfx]

Well, I guess we'll find out soon enough. We managed to strike a deal and I got the cab so excited.

Many more pictures to come in a few days

[Zebra]

That will make a nice mame / multi gun game cab. Congrats.

If possible, try and find a tri-sync or quad sync monitor so you can play some of the newer positional gun arcades like Alien Extermination. Plus you'd be able to play model 2 and 3 games in the correct 384 x 496 res. It's not super easy to use positional guns on multiple monitors if they are fixed to a cab...

Have you decided how you'll trigger the recoil yet?

I picked up my new America's Army cab yesterday. Moving those things is a bit of a mission. It took me 2 hours just to figure out how to get it out of the cargo van I rented for it. They seem so much bigger (and heavier) when they are in your own home.

[vholfx]

You need to buy some security screw drivers and open it up to see what's going on and, specifically, what you are actually doing when you push the end to make it recoil. You might be bridging a loose connection or helping the solenoid grip the brass knocker mechanism. Your gun has a long shaft with a brass knocker that should be attached to your solenoid. The "washer" may also refer to little grip that holds the spring and solenoid plunger in place.

Either way, you'll have to open it up to identify which wires go where. Once you do, the issue will likely be obvious. These devices are not complicated. Solenoids only have two wires (+ and -) going in with a diode between them.  While you are in there, make sure to clean the solenoid plunger and apply oil. I found automotive bearing oil to be the best but any long-lasting thin lube oil will work.

Right! So I opened it up and indeed the "grip" you mention is missing (it broke, I found pieces inside). How is it  call? And where may I find it? I don't even know what to google