46" Touchscreen table virtual pinball and maybe game controls opinions wanted!

[Mike A]

What the crap is a JAFA? Isn't he that wizard guy in the Lion King? Or did you mean Jawa? I am short. That is a possibility.

I don't want to wreck this thread. If you want to call me weird names you can pick one of my threads.

[Mark Norville]

Contrary to "popular" belief, I have a working prototype.
My primary coffee table is a Samsung SUR40, aka the Microsoft Surfacae 2.0/Pixelsense table:
I have had it for over 6 years.
Ergo, I am pretty sure I know the ergonomics and limitations of touchscreen coffee tables.
'Just sayin'....

I will offer one news article, there are a lot more like it, however this was just a quick search https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9079334/iPads-carry-RSI-risk.html

As I said previously I have three touch screen monitors, so I have spoken from my experience of using them.

When you go to the pub and use a touch screen jukebox, which is what started my journey of seeing my first touch screen jukebox. It is great and fun to use it the first time, you scroll around and are amazed by a new toy.

However, when you next go into the pub, you spend about five minutes selecting tracks, and then you sit down, and you might not put any more music on. However, constant use of a touch screen gets very boring after a while and also as I have previously said, that it can cause more RSI than using a keyboard and mouse.

Constant use of touchscreen can be very bad for the person involved, once it starts hurting, then you use less and less. I have actually thought about a touch screen coffee table ages ago but it would have been a table, a monitor a lot of sticky tape and a bodge job.

It was a novelty idea, but everything that I could do on that idea, I can do on my nexus 7 tablet, e.g I can use it for kodi navigation or to stream a movie or youtube to the TV.

I would recommend getting if you have not already Simple Touch FE it is great for touch screen, and something I was playing around with for my touch screen quiz machine.

It would be perfect for your project especially if you do a custom design on it. If you loaded the table or whatever you are going to do with a lot of software then yeah people will go wow look at all what it can do.

The main thing that I can suggest is before you even start the project, work out how much you think that you want to sell the table for, and then ask other people what they think about the price.

To give an example, if you said I am going to charge £50,000 $50,000 for the table once it is complete, I am pretty sure you will have people say you will not get that for it.

Do your costing first, and work out if this is really worth your time and effort. If you go to the hassle of building it, if you over price yourself, then it might never sell and it might just have been a wasted project.

As I say if Arcade 1 up are doing a cocktail cabinet for $500 are you going to be able to compete with the fact that a lot of people will be buying these units, and might not have extra funds or room, to buy your table.

Regards

Mark

[yotsuya]

Ignoring the weird ramblings for across the pond going on...

I don’t like how the backbox is way narrower than the table. I get why, but it just looks like a tacked on afterthought to me.

I mean, if you have the parts and the time to build it for yourself, go for it, but I don’t know how much of a market you’d have for it. You’d probably be better off taking the table and converting into a futuristic desk if you want to sell it.

[Mark Norville]

Ignoring the weird ramblings for across the pond going on...

I don’t like how the backbox is way narrower than the table. I get why, but it just looks like a tacked on afterthought to me.

I mean, if you have the parts and the time to build it for yourself, go for it, but I don’t know how much of a market you’d have for it. You’d probably be better off taking the table and converting into a futuristic desk if you want to sell it.

A good suggestion actually, we have been focusing on cocktail cabinet and coffee table, that no one has talked about other uses. I think I mentioned a jukebox would be more saleable than something like this.

The only downside to this that I can see is really you need a customer for it before you start the project, the reason why I say that for, is if you make a 6 foot desk, and sell it as such. A customer could come along and say I love the desk, I really want to buy it, but I only have room for 5 feet. You are going to be hit and miss on if you make it, then you have to sell it, the same as the other ideas.

Also you would have to try and sell more local as any of the options are potentially going to come with shipping costs or some sort of removal,

You could do a lot with a desk that you could not do with the other things, you could include a wireless charging dock a hingeable mount so the monitor can be raised when it use, or lowered when not in use.

The main thing though is costing and resale value for all of the ideas. What ever you build, you have to try and sell. If people don't want it, then you are left with furniture that you might not have wanted.

[jennifer]

I would be thinking more about the software, like a Mame those Roms are either going to blast this build into the red, or you in prison...the design needs help, The head does not appear to belong to the machine and in attempt to be futuristic would be better off being projected, possibly even onto the floor underneath it... and as a coffee table it is going to take abuse far beyond a typical V/P and would need to be spill proofed which would add a whole new aspect of design, unless your fine with the game under glass look.

[Mark Norville]

Yes software is kind of an issue but not much, a lot of people get away with selling hyperspin drives, machines with jamma boards etc as he is only selling one or two of these. The chances are he will be fine. It is when you pirate and sell a load of hard drives and things like that when they eventually catch you. If he was caught and it was a one off thing, he would get a wrap around the knuckles and told not to do it again, if he was making million's from it, then that is another story.

If he sold this with the N word that will not be spoken, and he has all of their roms then they will have a field day if he is caught.

Sadly he has not even thought about any of the details apart from making the thing and trying to sell it. I have tried to give him a business perspective, but most of the times he is not listening to that.

1) cost of material
2) labour costs (you need to pay yourself)
3) shipping/handling
4) official or unofficial windows operating system, or are you going to use linux etc
5) are you going to offer product support or are you going to sell sold as seen

The list is almost endless really, I do not think he has really thought about anything and he is desperately trying to make a quick buck but by the time that he builds the thing, I do not think that it will give him half as much as he is possibly hoping to sell it for.

E.G he has one million dollars in his head, and it might be worth $50 to someone else.

Still

[yotsuya]

If he sold this with the N word

Why you gotta be racism man???!!1!

[Mark Norville]

lol

I am not using that N word, get your mind out of the gutter.

I am using the N word emulation, arcade, console word.

I can say it, if you really are that stupid however, I would sooner not use the N word, simply because since they destroyed most of the rom sites, they will follow any website such as this that uses their name and look at what people are saying.

If someone is using their artwork etc etc, then who knows what they would do?

[yotsuya]

lol

I am not using that N word, get your mind out of the gutter.

I am using the N word emulation, arcade, console word.

I can say it, if you really are that stupid however, I would sooner not use the N word, simply because since they destroyed most of the rom sites, they will follow any website such as this that uses their name and look at what people are saying.

If someone is using their artwork etc etc, then who knows what they would do?

Don’t worry, if Chance didn’t summon Nintendo years ago when he fanboi’d out, then we’re quite safe.

[Mark Norville]

I bet you say bomb, assassination and kill the president when you are on the phone don't you.

The N word are not as high tech as them, but they will still search sites and see what if any copyrighted stuff is being used.

[yotsuya]

Nintendo doesn’t care. This site does not host any Nintendo ROMS. We only discuss Nintendo games and restoration of Nintendo cabinets here. Relax, Nintendo has no beef with us.

Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo.
 
 
 


Nintendo.

[Mark Norville]

The N word don't care, anything and everything N related is copyrighted.

Yes you do not hold roms, which if they type in N and roms, however their artwork is copyrighted, even if you had sonic bending over and mario is doing it from behind, N might smile for two seconds, and then ask for the image to be removed.

However, as we were talking about what software might be included as part of the sale of this cabinet, he might be looking at including N roms.

[yotsuya]

Saint has rules in place here to make companies like Nintendo happy. So as much as you’d like to see Sonic rogering Mario, that’s not gonna happen.

[jennifer]

The N word don't care, anything and everything N related is copyrighted.

Yes you do not hold roms, which if they type in N and roms, however their artwork is copyrighted, even if you had sonic bending over and mario is doing it from behind, N might smile for two seconds, and then ask for the image to be removed.

However, as we were talking about what software might be included as part of the sale of this cabinet, he might be looking at including N roms.

N roms?...

[Keroppi]

There would be no racist roms included with the table lol.
How tf did this thread get so derailed that I come back and Mario is Railing sonic? 

Can we please not focus on the issues with possibly selling one (profit, legality, etc.)? Even if no one buys one, I don't mind having two.
The only consideration I wanted selling one to imply on this build thread is to not make design decisions that 99% of people would hate (like painting it fluorescent pink with purple polka dots)

...the design needs help, The head does not appear to belong to the machine and in attempt to be futuristic would be better off being projected, possibly even onto the floor underneath it... and as a coffee table it is going to take abuse far beyond a typical V/P and would need to be spill proofed which would add a whole new aspect of design, unless your fine with the game under glass look.

I agree about the head, this is one of the primary sacrifice in making this table a vpin. However it is absolutely required. The score display is, at least. I could always plaster it into the apron area...much simpler, obviously, but it would take away from the experience, I think.
The projection is an interesting idea, but it would never be seen. Not to mention the issues with floor types/colors/etc that would make it inherently difficult to implement.
The table is already glass and spill resistant. ie you can spill a drink, and wipe it up and all is fine. Spill a drink and leave it there, different story. So while it would not survive a commercial environment, in home use it's perfectly fine. I have had a similar touchscreen as my coffee table for 6 years now. I never made that one a vpin because it's all sharp angles and nowhere to put buttons.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a possible hinge mechanism? (I posted all the measurements about a page back before all the Nintendo porn lol)

[Keroppi]

Well, I spent some more time on the mockup, and gotta admit, I feel pretty stupid. I was sacrificing the backbox design due to the portrait orientation required by the leg spacing.
Well, there's absolutely no reason I can't rotate the backglass *after* it's cleared the legs! I can then also fold in a dmd/speaker panel and make it look proper!




I am still working out the mechanics; the best thing I can come up with is locking rail slides:



However, I have reservations that this would work out vertically. That's simply not how they were designed to hold the weight.
If I need to make the "vertical" platform *solid*, the "representational" platform length under the table is ~42" (not measured in the drawing above).
That will make them stick out even further (and) lower than the monitor on the other end. This runs the risk of it being visible, especially if I don't cut down the legs to make it coffee table.

One option to save half a dozen precious inches is this case would be to move the dmd panel to the top, "Premier" style, which I don't think looks half bad:




What do you think?

If anyone has any recommendations on the mechanics, I'd love to hear it!

[Keroppi]

So I have spent some time working out the mechanics of it, and the biggest issue is that the back/bottom of the backbox platform must clear past the bottom of the cabinet before rotating upward.
This cannot be accomplished by a single set of rail slides. As best I can tell, It will require a set of rail slides and good 'ol fashioned drawer rollers.
This is not the ideal solution, but its the best that I can come up with.
I am not chuffed about $50 for a set of locking rail slides, but it needs a stable fulcrum while being hoisted up into place.
A simple screw or such can stop the assembly from continuing out of the rails (as drawers were meant to be able to be pulled up and out).
A detent pin or something of the like can hold the vertical platform in place.

I don't love this solution, but this part is *not* my strong suit. If anyone has a better sub-$100 solution, I'd *really* love to hear it!

[Laythe]

If I wanted to do your basic backbox functionality cheaper and more rigidly, I might not incorporate all that guided motion into it.

Consider if your backbox simply had two square studs that stuck out on the bottom, and there were four square tube receivers on the table that they slid into - one pair positioned for the "stowed" under-table, and one pair positioned off the back legs for the "deployed" position.  If your backbox isn't too heavy to manhandle, you'd just unplug it from one place, carry it over to the other with all the cables still attached, and plug it in over there.

It's not as slick, but it could be cheaper and stronger, I think.


Also, regarding your playfield, I'd suggest to try running some vpin software on a flat horizontal playfield table and see what you think of it before you finalize your engineering.  I found I couldn't live with it, I needed about a 6 degree incline, so I ended up doing a bunch of engineering work to support that - you may find that flat bothers you, or you may find you can live with it.

[Keroppi]

If I wanted to do your basic backbox functionality cheaper and more rigidly, I might not incorporate all that guided motion into it.

Consider if your backbox simply had two square studs that stuck out on the bottom, and there were four square tube receivers on the table that they slid into - one pair positioned for the "stowed" under-table, and one pair positioned off the back legs for the "deployed" position.  If your backbox isn't too heavy to manhandle, you'd just unplug it from one place, carry it over to the other with all the cables still attached, and plug it in over there.

It's not as slick, but it could be cheaper and stronger, I think.


Also, regarding your playfield, I'd suggest to try running some vpin software on a flat horizontal playfield table and see what you think of it before you finalize your engineering.  I found I couldn't live with it, I needed about a 6 degree incline, so I ended up doing a bunch of engineering work to support that - you may find that flat bothers you, or you may find you can live with it.

I had thought about that idea, but I feel like that would become as hassle. The backbox will definitely end up having some weight to it, I am figuring 30-35 lbs-ish.

I got some of the software setup now, I don't love the flatness but I can live with it. I am in absolute awe over what you did to get that 6 degrees, I follow your build regularly.

It's my first time setting up all of the vpin software, man, there is a LOT to do! I am only about 1/2 there, got visual pinball, updated pinmame, updated b2s, dof, freezy dmd, future pinball, bam, and just starting on doflinx, then onto the pup system/frontend. I also am requesting cabinet keys for Pinball FX2/FX3...I had always thought the cabinet icon was to rotate the screen, I was quite surprised it was to ask for a code! Hopefully I can still get one for FX2. I am pissed enough that they won't let me finish buying my tables and complete the set, but if I can't play my FX2 exclusives on the cab, I'll be quite annoyed.