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Author Topic: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System  (Read 273456 times)

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Ugo

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1000 on: October 04, 2022, 04:14:30 pm »
Found this Chinese supplier for the Camera, is this the right part?
https://www.chxchips.com/en/dfrobot_SEN0158.html

Yes, that's the right part number. How did you find this website?
Are you sure it's not a scam? Especially how it says it'll ship in 24hrs. lol

TapeWormInYourGut

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1001 on: October 04, 2022, 06:04:32 pm »
It's probably a valid supplier, but Chinese suppliers on Ebay usually estimate about 1 month shipping on products. It's probably 24 hours to ship it, but then 3-4 weeks to actually receive it.

RandyT

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1002 on: October 05, 2022, 03:38:38 pm »
I am wondering if the SDA and SCL on the teensy/micro need a 5v communication signal but the camera module only communicates using 3.3V? I have checked the output of the SDA and SCL without the camera connected with an oscilloscope and it is showing a peak to peak of 5.2V, but the camera only has 3.3 V.

Has anyone else been able to get a Wii camera to work as shown in the (attached) diagram?  Or should there be a I2C bus voltage converter shield in between?

If you are seeing 5v+ on the data lines, you may have cooked the camera(s).  Technically, the pull-ups to the 3.3v rail should provide the 3.3v high signal levels, but that diagram is a little spooky.  Not because it won't work, but because of the possibility that the data pins on the MCU may not always be set to open-drain inputs with internal pull-ups disabled.  This could happen if there is a code/programming issue, or user error (wiring to the wrong pin, etc.) Again, if you are seeing 5v on the data lines, this would seem to be the case as the only other way you should see that level is if your 3.3v rail isn't really 3.3v.

There's also the I2C V4 spec which calls out a 30% and 70% of VDD for the low and high levels respectively.  70% of 5v = 3.5v, so technically, delivering 3.3v to an 5v device may not be sufficient.  However, at the end of the day, you are still just connected to an I/O pin of an MCU, so those rules should apply unless there is some additional circuitry which comes into play when the pins are used for serial communication.  The only way to know is to look at the datasheet for the MCU and/or the carrier PCB.

JayBee

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1003 on: October 05, 2022, 10:52:47 pm »
@JayBee

can you not add a button on the gun like the arcadeguns mini button, it is much better as a reload button in time crisis than having it at the side.
The fully feature gun I am preparing will have a ton of easily accessible buttons, but I will also have a polling for users suggestions and wish list for the final design. I want it to be a lightgun perfectly tailored to everyone's need ;)

Hi all, I am trying to get a Wii IR camera to work with either a Teensy 2.0 or the Arduino Micro, but no luck so far.  I have followed JB's instructions and have been able to get all buttons, LED colours, rumble and solenoid working using the test app.  However the camera does not pick anything up either in the test screen or the calibration screen.

I have tried trouble shooting by doing the following:

Reflash the teensy board (done)
Tested continuity and all connections (done)
Try different teensy board (done)
Try an arduino micro board (done)
Try a different pullup resistor value (33K and 2K7) on the camera module. - done
Try a different camera module –pulled out of another Wiimote - done
Try another 3.3v supply to the camera in case there is not enough amps from the controller– done used a bench power supply
Try different LEDs - done, I even rigged up two Wii sensor bars in case the LEDs are dodgy or the wrong wavelength
Try on a different windows computer – done on windows 10 and windows 7
Tested the output of the crystal is 24Mhz – tested using oscilloscope ok
 :banghead:

I am wondering if the SDA and SCL on the teensy/micro need a 5v communication signal but the camera module only communicates using 3.3V? I have checked the output of the SDA and SCL without the camera connected with an oscilloscope and it is showing a peak to peak of 5.2V, but the camera only has 3.3 V.

Has anyone else been able to get a Wii camera to work as shown in the (attached) diagram?  Or should there be a I2C bus voltage converter shield in between?

Thanks,
Steve
Sorry for the late reply.
I2C is an active low type of signal, so it's working perfectly fine in 3.3v, 5v might damage the cam. Everything on the cam side has to be 3.3v, including the oscillator.
Please double check everything in the circuit, oscillator, continuity, shorts... as those cams are very sensitive to any small issues.
You can also join the Discord server, where we will be able to help you more easily.

If you are seeing 5v+ on the data lines, you may have cooked the camera(s).  Technically, the pull-ups to the 3.3v rail should provide the 3.3v high signal levels, but that diagram is a little spooky.  Not because it won't work, but because of the possibility that the data pins on the MCU may not always be set to open-drain inputs with internal pull-ups disabled.  This could happen if there is a code/programming issue, or user error (wiring to the wrong pin, etc.) Again, if you are seeing 5v on the data lines, this would seem to be the case as the only other way you should see that level is if your 3.3v rail isn't really 3.3v.

There's also the I2C V4 spec which calls out a 30% and 70% of VDD for the low and high levels respectively.  70% of 5v = 3.5v, so technically, delivering 3.3v to an 5v device may not be sufficient.  However, at the end of the day, you are still just connected to an I/O pin of an MCU, so those rules should apply unless there is some additional circuitry which comes into play when the pins are used for serial communication.  The only way to know is to look at the datasheet for the MCU and/or the carrier PCB.

By default (when not set up), those lines are always left as floating, so if the lines are properly pulled up to 3.3v with the resistors, they should always be on 3.3v, never 5v. Same when active as I2C, they aren't pulling up to anything, they are either floaty on state high (and rely on the external pullup), or pulled to gnd on state low, so that it works with any device voltage. The state high threshold on that MCU I think is between 1 and 2v.

RandyT

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1004 on: October 06, 2022, 08:44:31 am »
By default (when not set up), those lines are always left as floating, so if the lines are properly pulled up to 3.3v with the resistors, they should always be on 3.3v, never 5v. Same when active as I2C, they aren't pulling up to anything, they are either floaty on state high (and rely on the external pullup), or pulled to gnd on state low, so that it works with any device voltage. The state high threshold on that MCU I think is between 1 and 2v.

I understand all of that and suspected as much about the MCU levels.  But there is a real-world situation which could end in a dead or damaged Wii camera every time.

What if a user has an Arduino lying around (who doesn't) which has been used previously for tinkering and has some other code present which has one of those pins set up as an output already and set to high level, or as an input with internal pullups enabled (pretty much common for a switch)?  If they build the circuit first and then apply power to program the arduino, 5v will be connected to the data pins of the Wii camera. 

So with that particular circuit, it is absolutely imperative that the board is programmed and verified to be working properly prior to attaching it to the rest of the circuit to avoid possible damage.

That's why I stated that it will work but was a little spooky. 


mptrs

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1005 on: October 06, 2022, 09:26:31 am »
Shortage in IR sensors but no shortage in Super Jolt Guns!!

For the people that are still looking for a Super Jolt Gun. I've got quite some supply. Colours are limited due to restrictions in my country.
Let me know if you want one: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,167013.0.html

(hope this is more in line with the rules :) )

pacooka

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1006 on: October 07, 2022, 08:19:17 am »
Found this Chinese supplier for the Camera, is this the right part?
https://www.chxchips.com/en/dfrobot_SEN0158.html

Yes, that's the right part number. How did you find this website?
Are you sure it's not a scam? Especially how it says it'll ship in 24hrs. lol
Did a google search :-), i'm also talking with another chinese supplier from Alibaba, they're on vacation now and will respond on the 8-9th oct, I'll update.
The above supplier, no I never bought from him but he has a PayPal (insurance) so I don't mind.

RandyT

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1007 on: October 07, 2022, 11:19:25 am »
There's also something else not right about that circuit for the Wii camera.  The pinout for the camera calls out 25mhz on the CLK line, but the schematic shows a 24mhz oscillator.  Is the camera being underclocked intentionally, or is one of these in error?

Starting to think that this is the reason 1942 is not having success, as he is using a 24mhz oscillator, and every reference I have seen to this part calls out a 25mhz clock.

pacooka

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1008 on: October 08, 2022, 08:06:47 am »
For the IR LED, I would like to use the black 940nm IR LED SIR5028B instead of the transparent ones because I heard they perform better.
By looking at the calculator, I see that for VCC 1.2V I should use 47 Ohm (for transparent LEDs - 27 Ohm); can someone please advise if this is correct, or point me to the right black LEDs & resistors?


Ugo

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1009 on: October 08, 2022, 02:08:23 pm »
For the IR LED, I would like to use the black 940nm IR LED SIR5028B instead of the transparent ones because I heard they perform better.
By looking at the calculator, I see that for VCC 1.2V I should use 47 Ohm (for transparent LEDs - 27 Ohm); can someone please advise if this is correct, or point me to the right black LEDs & resistors?

Sounds like it should work.
For me, i use a voltage divider scheme with high wattage resistors to drop the volts and maintain enough amps/watts for the LEDs.
I use tools like this website https://circuitdigest.com/calculators/voltage-divider-calculator

Zebidee

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1010 on: October 08, 2022, 08:51:30 pm »
For the IR LED, I would like to use the black 940nm IR LED SIR5028B instead of the transparent ones because I heard they perform better.
By looking at the calculator, I see that for VCC 1.2V I should use 47 Ohm (for transparent LEDs - 27 Ohm); can someone please advise if this is correct, or point me to the right black LEDs & resistors?

I know I'm coming in sideways and haven't read all the previous 25 pages of the thread, so I apologise if I misunderstand the context, but...

It is generally better to run your LEDs in parallel rather than in series.

That means each LED has its own resistor and 5v power (you daisy chain the 5v, much like we commonly do for grounds). If you have Vcc=5v, forward voltage over LED = 1.2v, want 10mA current, then 380R (for each LED) is the "right" resistor. This is the safe minimum, you can use higher value resistors safely (the LEDs will be less "bright").

As each resistor/LED pair is only passing 10mA current, you can use any old 1/4W or even 1/8W resistors, don't need to be high wattage rating.

If wanted, you MAY add another resistor (one, in series) on the 5v supply, to all LEDs, to limit the current a bit more. Again, everything is going to be <30mA so 1/4W rated resistor is fine.

You CAN wire all the LEDs in series behind a single resistor. However, in practice this often means the last LED is struggling to get enough current, especially as even the best 5v supply will have ripples. Makes the quality of your power supply more important. Also means a single fault anywhere prevents all from working, and makes it more difficult to troubleshoot.

Love this project, been following for a while, really happy to see more great lightguns happening :D
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 08:53:59 pm by Zebidee »
Check out my completed projects!


RandyT

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1011 on: October 09, 2022, 08:21:58 am »
For the IR LED, I would like to use the black 940nm IR LED SIR5028B instead of the transparent ones because I heard they perform better.
By looking at the calculator, I see that for VCC 1.2V I should use 47 Ohm (for transparent LEDs - 27 Ohm); can someone please advise if this is correct, or point me to the right black LEDs & resistors?

The current to radiant intensity curve on this part looks to be very linear, and I assume that you want the maximum amount of brightness given that you seem to want to use this part for it's performance characteristics. 

This particular LED shows to have a continuous current rating of 20ma, so driving it at half that (your stated 10ma per part), while possibly increasing the longevity considerably, is likely to be giving up a good chunk of that performance. If it were me, and based on the data for the part, I would run them "hotter" at 16-18ma which should give them a higher radiant intensity, while providing a bit of a safe zone. 

Given that it's only 3 LEDs, I'd have no qualms about running them in series with one appropriately sized resistor so long as that worked properly for the application at hand.  However, you do need to be aware that when one LED burns out AND dies in the shorted state OR is no longer consuming it's share of the total current, the other LEDs in the series will also be damaged.  I consider this arrangement a possible problem only in the event of a premature failure, as IR LEDs tend to wear out at a fairly even rate across the board and usually quicker than other types.   So just like the brake pads on either end of a vehicle, if you replace one side due to wear, you might as well replace the other because they are probably due.

As for the proper wavelength, there is anecdotal evidence out there for 940nm being optimal, but to really know for sure one would need to look at not only the specs for the sensor, but also the specs for the filter material in front of it (if it has one).  Ideally, the filter should be tuned to pass the wavelengths at the highest levels, which match those most favorable to the sensor.  In other words, if the sensor has the highest sensitivity at 850nm, but the filter blocks 15% of light at that frequency, it will be exactly the same as feeding it unobstructed light at a frequency to which it is 15% less sensitive.  So gains will be limited if the optical components are not properly matched to begin with.  The issue is that these components seem to be hacks built on hacks which have little if any official specifications available, meaning that more hacking (and not just with the LEDs) might be necessary to really use them to their fullest potential.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 08:37:55 am by RandyT »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1012 on: October 09, 2022, 09:38:56 am »
Ugo, Zebidee, and RandyT, thank you for the detailed responses, I really appreciate it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 04:01:48 am by pacooka »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1013 on: October 10, 2022, 04:52:17 pm »
Hey, JayBee
Just donated to your fabulous project.
When can I expect the email to access the discord etc.?

Regards

Thank you, all good.
JB contacted me via his Discord channel.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 11:50:07 am by CRaccani »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1014 on: October 12, 2022, 05:37:00 pm »
Bonjour à tous Je suis en train de fabriquer ma borne et ce projet du gun 4ir m'intéresse beaucoup. Ma question est si je donne la contribution paypal il y a aussi la liste de pièces à commander ? En attente de votre retour bonne soirée.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1015 on: October 13, 2022, 01:38:20 pm »
I haven't followed closely, but noticed recent posts about using a wii camera. 

I have two awesome looking third party Walther P99 replica Wii guns from way back when we were using glovepie scripts.  :oldman

To convert them to GUN4IR using the cameras already in them, would I be able to just follow the instructions or is there going to be a lot more to it.
I'm not looking to go down a rabbit hole......but I'm accustomed to ending up going down a rabbit hole.

EDIT: I got 8 9 numbered pins (with two sets combined) where the camera board is soldered to the next board.  A quick search for Wii camera shows 8 pins.
There are lots of tiny surface mount components on the camera board though.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 02:24:05 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1016 on: October 13, 2022, 03:19:53 pm »
It appears there is a piece of software called Lichtknarre that uses 4 IR LED tracking with unmodified Wii remotes.  Looks kinda janky, but I am going to try it.
Hopefully I have some bare IR LEDs somewhere.  Might try it with the dolphin bar first just to see how the software functions.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1017 on: October 13, 2022, 03:58:49 pm »
I understand all of that and suspected as much about the MCU levels.  But there is a real-world situation which could end in a dead or damaged Wii camera every time.

What if a user has an Arduino lying around (who doesn't) which has been used previously for tinkering and has some other code present which has one of those pins set up as an output already and set to high level, or as an input with internal pullups enabled (pretty much common for a switch)?  If they build the circuit first and then apply power to program the arduino, 5v will be connected to the data pins of the Wii camera. 

So with that particular circuit, it is absolutely imperative that the board is programmed and verified to be working properly prior to attaching it to the rest of the circuit to avoid possible damage.

That's why I stated that it will work but was a little spooky.
That is why I always recommend flashing the arduino first and/or adding a level shifter to the mix. And as I state in my guides, those DIY schematics aren't for beginners. You must know what you are getting into.
There is absolutely no way of making a DIY circuit foolproof. But on the few thousand guns made to this day, none got their cams fried for that reason.

There's also something else not right about that circuit for the Wii camera.  The pinout for the camera calls out 25mhz on the CLK line, but the schematic shows a 24mhz oscillator.  Is the camera being underclocked intentionally, or is one of these in error?

Starting to think that this is the reason 1942 is not having success, as he is using a 24mhz oscillator, and every reference I have seen to this part calls out a 25mhz clock.

There is nothing wrong there, the cam itself supports between 23 and 25MHz. I have been using cams with 24MHz for years (as it was the easiest oscillator to get), but 25Mhz works as well.


I know I'm coming in sideways and haven't read all the previous 25 pages of the thread, so I apologise if I misunderstand the context, but...

It is generally better to run your LEDs in parallel rather than in series.

That means each LED has its own resistor and 5v power (you daisy chain the 5v, much like we commonly do for grounds). If you have Vcc=5v, forward voltage over LED = 1.2v, want 10mA current, then 380R (for each LED) is the "right" resistor. This is the safe minimum, you can use higher value resistors safely (the LEDs will be less "bright").

As each resistor/LED pair is only passing 10mA current, you can use any old 1/4W or even 1/8W resistors, don't need to be high wattage rating.

If wanted, you MAY add another resistor (one, in series) on the 5v supply, to all LEDs, to limit the current a bit more. Again, everything is going to be <30mA so 1/4W rated resistor is fine.

You CAN wire all the LEDs in series behind a single resistor. However, in practice this often means the last LED is struggling to get enough current, especially as even the best 5v supply will have ripples. Makes the quality of your power supply more important. Also means a single fault anywhere prevents all from working, and makes it more difficult to troubleshoot.

Love this project, been following for a while, really happy to see more great lightguns happening :D

Putting LEDs in parallel is generally a bad idea for few reasons;
- The more power you need to drop/limit with a resistor, the more power it will need to dissipate, increasing its heat and minimum rating by a lot.
The rating isn't only related to the current going through it, but also the ratio between input voltate and led forward voltage.
To give a small exemple, the leds we are currently using/recommending ideally need 80mA, at around 1.5v.
That's only 37mW per resistor when they are by 3 in series, but 261mW if you use them one by one.
- The power dropping on last led is also happening in parallel, it's even worse if the wires/resistors/leds have some variations, or if you are using the power supply max current. We use them by 3 because even if there are some variation it's not so much noticeable.
- More components and more soldering also means more possibilities of failure, especially for DIY stuff  :lol

For the IR LED, I would like to use the black 940nm IR LED SIR5028B instead of the transparent ones because I heard they perform better.
By looking at the calculator, I see that for VCC 1.2V I should use 47 Ohm (for transparent LEDs - 27 Ohm); can someone please advise if this is correct, or point me to the right black LEDs & resistors?

The current to radiant intensity curve on this part looks to be very linear, and I assume that you want the maximum amount of brightness given that you seem to want to use this part for it's performance characteristics. 

This particular LED shows to have a continuous current rating of 20ma, so driving it at half that (your stated 10ma per part), while possibly increasing the longevity considerably, is likely to be giving up a good chunk of that performance. If it were me, and based on the data for the part, I would run them "hotter" at 16-18ma which should give them a higher radiant intensity, while providing a bit of a safe zone. 

Given that it's only 3 LEDs, I'd have no qualms about running them in series with one appropriately sized resistor so long as that worked properly for the application at hand.  However, you do need to be aware that when one LED burns out AND dies in the shorted state OR is no longer consuming it's share of the total current, the other LEDs in the series will also be damaged.  I consider this arrangement a possible problem only in the event of a premature failure, as IR LEDs tend to wear out at a fairly even rate across the board and usually quicker than other types.   So just like the brake pads on either end of a vehicle, if you replace one side due to wear, you might as well replace the other because they are probably due.

As for the proper wavelength, there is anecdotal evidence out there for 940nm being optimal, but to really know for sure one would need to look at not only the specs for the sensor, but also the specs for the filter material in front of it (if it has one).  Ideally, the filter should be tuned to pass the wavelengths at the highest levels, which match those most favorable to the sensor.  In other words, if the sensor has the highest sensitivity at 850nm, but the filter blocks 15% of light at that frequency, it will be exactly the same as feeding it unobstructed light at a frequency to which it is 15% less sensitive.  So gains will be limited if the optical components are not properly matched to begin with.  The issue is that these components seem to be hacks built on hacks which have little if any official specifications available, meaning that more hacking (and not just with the LEDs) might be necessary to really use them to their fullest potential.


Failing LEDs usually aren't passing juice anymore, so if one fails it's very common that the others don't have any issue. While IR might have shorter life than others, it is still several years of continuous use for the good ones, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
That being said, the LEDs mentionned there don't seem great. The only reason we recommend the other black led model is because of the model specs themselves, and the esthetic.
No, the sensor is 100% sure 940nm, and needs a proper additional 940nm filter to work. I have reverse engineered that sensor, studied and used it for years, what I am doing with it is anything but hacky.
Heck I am using those sensor better than they have been used in the wiimote themselves. DIY doesn't automatically means it comes from amateur work ;)

Bonjour à tous Je suis en train de fabriquer ma borne et ce projet du gun 4ir m'intéresse beaucoup. Ma question est si je donne la contribution paypal il y a aussi la liste de pièces à commander ? En attente de votre retour bonne soirée.
Oui, une liste globale les pièces nécessaires.

I haven't followed closely, but noticed recent posts about using a wii camera. 

I have two awesome looking third party Walther P99 replica Wii guns from way back when we were using glovepie scripts.  :oldman

To convert them to GUN4IR using the cameras already in them, would I be able to just follow the instructions or is there going to be a lot more to it.
I'm not looking to go down a rabbit hole......but I'm accustomed to ending up going down a rabbit hole.

EDIT: I got 8 9 numbered pins (with two sets combined) where the camera board is soldered to the next board.  A quick search for Wii camera shows 8 pins.
There are lots of tiny surface mount components on the camera board though.

Those are most likely different sensors and probably won't work I'm afraid  :-\

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1018 on: October 14, 2022, 04:32:00 am »
There is nothing wrong there, the cam itself supports between 23 and 25MHz. I have been using cams with 24MHz for years (as it was the easiest oscillator to get), but 25Mhz works as well.

It's still odd that the main guy who seems to have started all of this hacking is calling out a 25mhz oscillator.  I'm assuming that the value was taken from the clock source on the unit he was hacking, but one would have to assume others were doing the same, so something seems to have changed somewhere along the way.  Still, the processor inside the camera has to be affected one way or the other, unless of course it is self-clocking and separate from the camera.

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Failing LEDs usually aren't passing juice anymore, so if one fails it's very common that the others don't have any issue. While IR might have shorter life than others, it is still several years of continuous use for the good ones, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

For the most part, I agree.  LEDs are cheap enough now that it really doesn't matter.  However, I have seen cases where a faulty or damaged LED in series has brought down the others.  As they age or become damaged, the luminous intensity decreases.  The question is "what happens to the power?" when this occurs.  If it's turned to heat instead of light, then no problem.  But if it's just not consumed and allows the unused power to reach the others in the series, then it will degrade those as well.  I looked for this information, but sadly couldn't find much.

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No, the sensor is 100% sure 940nm, and needs a proper additional 940nm filter to work. I have reverse engineered that sensor, studied and used it for years, what I am doing with it is anything but hacky.
Heck I am using those sensor better than they have been used in the wiimote themselves. DIY doesn't automatically means it comes from amateur work ;)

Here's where I think we don't agree fully ;)

Anything to do with these particular "blob sensing" cameras is a straight-up hack, unless it's coming from Nintendo.  The manufacturer made these exclusively for them, and the datasheet is a closely guarded secret, to the point that the legal departments seem to be activated if there's a leak and one finds it's way to the internet.  The fact that you can't even get one of the parts without tearing apart an original WiiMote, unless you buy one in a different package pre-extracted by someone else, really says it all.  Now, that in no way is meant to detract from the amazing reverse-engineering work done by those who use them in their projects, just "calling a spade a spade".   

Now to why 940nm isn't necessarily ideal.  First of all, if you look at similar public facing components from that same manufacturer, it seems that they call out ~850nm.  This could be different for the Nintendo part, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  According to the internet, however, the camera is sensitive to a much wider frequency band, limited by a 940nm internal filter.  Why 940nm? Well, again guessing, these "blob sensing" camera systems are hyper-sensitive to stray light, so pushing them farther outside of the visible spectrum makes sense.  On the other side of the coin, you also don't want the sensor to become oversaturated when it is close to the emitters, which again, according to the internet, they are when the 940nm LEDs are used in that proximity.  So it's a balancing game, and it makes a certain amount of sense that the manufacturer would call out something "middle of the road" and then rely on the software controllable "sensitivity" and firmware to monitor and adjust dynamically, based on what the camera is (or isn't) seeing.

It's probably not necessary to do this and still have it work (possibly perfectly with a specific application), but again, without that 20+ page (based on internet posts) document from the manufacturer, only they and Nintendo knows if it is implemented as well as it could be.  And only they know what else that sensor can do. 


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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1019 on: October 14, 2022, 10:28:36 am »
It's still odd that the main guy who seems to have started all of this hacking is calling out a 25mhz oscillator.  I'm assuming that the value was taken from the clock source on the unit he was hacking, but one would have to assume others were doing the same, so something seems to have changed somewhere along the way.  Still, the processor inside the camera has to be affected one way or the other, unless of course it is self-clocking and separate from the camera.
Yes the 25MHz was only mentionned because that's the oscillator used with it on original hardware, based on the limited knowledge he had at that time. I know for a fact the cam circuit can work from 23 to 25MHz. It does impact its working frequency, but not the way you might think, and doesn't have any negative impact on performance or longevity for our specific use.
You seem to think I am relying on other people hacky work, or incomplete info found online to use that sensor? You don't know the half of it :lol

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For the most part, I agree.  LEDs are cheap enough now that it really doesn't matter.  However, I have seen cases where a faulty or damaged LED in series has brought down the others.  As they age or become damaged, the luminous intensity decreases.  The question is "what happens to the power?" when this occurs.  If it's turned to heat instead of light, then no problem.  But if it's just not consumed and allows the unused power to reach the others in the series, then it will degrade those as well.  I looked for this information, but sadly couldn't find much.
LEDs that fry usually stops conducting current properly. The power not used anymore by the led doesn't need to go somewhere, it's just not used. If one LED in a series fails the other components only get less power (or no power at all if it's completely dead), which won't harm them in any way. The dying LED can very rarely, in extreme cases burn up, crack or even explode, but even then it's rarely dangerous for the neighbor components.
Here is a fun list of things that can happen;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LED_failure_modes
But I am sure you already know that, it's basic electronic stuff  ;D

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Anything to do with these particular "blob sensing" cameras is a straight-up hack, unless it's coming from Nintendo. The manufacturer made these exclusively for them, and the datasheet is a closely guarded secret, to the point that the legal departments seem to be activated if there's a leak and one finds it's way to the internet.
Those sensors are only a variation of an old model that company used to make. Nintendo was just using them, as a client, and not to their full potential, far from it.
The reason we are using those is that they are by far the most common and easy/cheap to get. For a full commercial and non DIY product, I wouldn't use those at all obviously.
Docs and informations about this sensor and others indeed aren't available publicly online, but it doesn't mean we can't get very reliable info on them through reverse engineering, research and official docs from other models. If I was limiting myself to simple hacks, barely working libraries or incomplete leaked info found online, my gun wouldn't perform anywhere near as it does now.
If I wanted a sluggish and unreliable light gun system I would have stayed with a wiimote+software solution  :dunno

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The fact that you can't even get one of the parts without tearing apart an original WiiMote, unless you buy one in a different package pre-extracted by someone else, really says it all.
They just aren't produced anymore, and haven't been for many years.

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Now, that in no way is meant to detract from the amazing reverse-engineering work done by those who use them in their projects, just "calling a spade a spade".   
Thanks. And sure, let's call it a hack :P

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Now to why 940nm isn't necessarily ideal.
It doesn't matter, that specific sensor (and not the several other models from the same company) is essentially designed to work with 940nm, filter or not.
It was made that way not for technical reasons, but because they didn't want the users to see the leds with their naked eyes, as 850nm can be seen, but still wanted the sensor to perform optimally with them (which a native 850nm sensor wouldn't do).
Of course the sensor can see the 850nm LEDs as well, because it was hard to make a sensor that only sees 940nm range in a reliable manner. That's the reason why they always need an extra IR pass filter (that black plastic in front of the sensor on the wiimote isn't just for show), as opposed to more recent 850nm sensors.

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On the other side of the coin, you also don't want the sensor to become oversaturated when it is close to the emitters, which again, according to the internet, they are when the 940nm LEDs are used in that proximity.
That or the fact light blobs have a limited size in the sensor memory banks and becomes garbage passed that size. There are also several other issues like internal or external reflections and such  ;)

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1020 on: October 14, 2022, 10:51:49 am »
Thanks for that LED breakdown Jaybee :D

To give a small exemple, the leds we are currently using/recommending ideally need 80mA, at around 1.5v.
That's only 37mW per resistor when they are by 3 in series, but 261mW if you use them one by one.

Those LEDs sure use a lot of power, makes sense to run in series and keep the watts/waste heat down.

If there is an issue with current supply to a long string of LEDs, in series or parallel, spaced bypass capacitors (suggest/guess ceramic, maybe 103 [0.01uF] to 105 [1uF]) can help to smooth out power droops for those further down the line.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1021 on: October 14, 2022, 03:20:06 pm »
LEDs that fry usually stops conducting current properly. The power not used anymore by the led doesn't need to go somewhere, it's just not used.

With regard to the failing ones which sever or heat up, I agree.  But those failure modes which leak current past definitely send that extra to the remaining LEDs.

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If I wanted a sluggish and unreliable light gun system I would have stayed with a wiimote+software solution  :dunno

What would lead you to that conclusion?  Is it simply the lack of a good driver or have you concluded that there is something inherently bad/slow about the processor in the Wii remotes?  From what I have been able to gather, all of the important sensor information is available from the Wii controller and would therefore be accessible by code running on a much faster and more powerful processor.  Namely, the one in the PC.

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(that black plastic in front of the sensor on the wiimote isn't just for show)

Heh.  Actually, it might be.  If the camera has an integrated filter, which I assume it does, then the plastic in front is just a window the camera can see through but you can't, in order to hide the inner components.  I.e. just for show :).  However, if the window is further filtering what gets in beyond the integrated filter, then that's a different story.  What does your testing show?

I'll buy that they didn't want the LEDs in the "sensor bar" to be seen, but oh the cost. 

What might be an interesting experiment to improve detection would be to remove any internal filter (assuming it's possible and also that it indeed has one tuned for 940nm) and replace it with an external one which is meant for 850nm and use those LEDs.  Spectral response on virtually every silicon-based camera, even on the expensive ones intended for IR, drops by about 50% between 850 and 940nm, and I'm honestly very skeptical that these are much different, especially given the price. 

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That or the fact light blobs have a limited size in the sensor memory banks and becomes garbage passed that size. There are also several other issues like internal or external reflections and such  ;)

It's possible.  But it's probably not necessary to store bitmapped image data, outside of the standard frame-buffer, to get good blob co-ordinates.  I.e. I would think the memory requirement for the calculations would remain constant, regardless of blob size.   But once the sensor is driven to the point that there are no real borders to be found (everything above the low-level cutoff) then I'm sure it will have a bad time.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1022 on: October 15, 2022, 01:22:15 am »
But those failure modes which leak current past definitely send that extra to the remaining LEDs.
I totally understand your point there, but that's and extremely rare and unlikely case, and isn't really relevant in our case on LEDs in series vs in parallel.
Let me ask you, if it was so much of an issues, why would all the engineers on the planet use IR LEDs in series in their IR point designs?

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What would lead you to that conclusion?  Is it simply the lack of a good driver or have you concluded that there is something inherently bad/slow about the processor in the Wii remotes?  From what I have been able to gather, all of the important sensor information is available from the Wii controller and would therefore be accessible by code running on a much faster and more powerful processor.  Namely, the one in the PC.
The extra processing happening in the wiimote itself, the way it's handled, and the BT protocol are the bottleneck here, and the sensor wasn't used to its maximum specs simply because it wouldn't have been useful.
That means with a wiimote you'll never ever reach the 4ms latency I achieve with my gun system, especially without the Wii proprietary low latency BT protocol (which can't really be used for anything else than the Wii itself or Wii emulation).
Sadly no good drivers can fix that.
If it could I don't think I would have bothered making a full hardware solution.

You might think latency isn't an issue, but lightguns are way more sensitive than normal controllers to latency if you are playing without crosshair (as it should always be).
You want the hit to always land on time and exactly where you are aiming, not where you were aiming 2 or more frames ago.

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Heh.  Actually, it might be.  If the camera has an integrated filter, which I assume it does, then the plastic in front is just a window the camera can see through but you can't, in order to hide the inner components.  I.e. just for show :).  However, if the window is further filtering what gets in beyond the integrated filter, then that's a different story.  What does your testing show?

I'll buy that they didn't want the LEDs in the "sensor bar" to be seen, but oh the cost. 

What might be an interesting experiment to improve detection would be to remove any internal filter (assuming it's possible and also that it indeed has one tuned for 940nm) and replace it with an external one which is meant for 850nm and use those LEDs.  Spectral response on virtually every silicon-based camera, even on the expensive ones intended for IR, drops by about 50% between 850 and 940nm, and I'm honestly very skeptical that these are much different, especially given the price. 
Not "might". The front plastic is an IR pass filter as the camera doesn't have a proper integrated filter, it relies on the extra IR pas filter, the same way it relies on external oscillator to drive it (later models don't need that extra hardware or extra filter). Please just try it by yourself before making assumptions, you'll see how bad the cam behaves without the front filter, no matter the type of led used or the cam sensitivity setting.
It can catch some LEDs that aren't in the IR spectrum, and will catch tons of noises and reflections that cannot be filtered by software or cam settings.
That's just the way it was designed.
Having an IR pass filter that also hides the internal was most likely more cost effective than having to add a proper filter in the cam itself.

The cost? I am not sure I'm following you here, how would that have been more expensive or less efficient (for that particular use) to use simple 940nm than using 850nm ones? The "sensor bar" (even if it's a weird name for a thing that doesn't have sensors) doesn't need expensive IR pass filter or anything, and uses very very basic low power LEDs (in series).

I already tried what you are suggesting, and the results weren't good enough to be worth the switch to 850nm. And the whole point of using black LEDs is making them very discreet, using a wavelength we can see with naked eyes would make it completely counter productive.

Again, I have no idea why you think I am guesstimating here.
I have the feeling you think I don't know what I'm talking about here haha.
You think you'd get more knowledge from quick online search than me in years of study on the subject?  :lol

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It's possible.  But it's probably not necessary to store bitmapped image data, outside of the standard frame-buffer, to get good blob co-ordinates.  I.e. I would think the memory requirement for the calculations would remain constant, regardless of blob size.   But once the sensor is driven to the point that there are no real borders to be found (everything above the low-level cutoff) then I'm sure it will have a bad time.
It does store its data in fixed registers, that have a very limited size. Of course the computation of the blobs has its own limit, but the way the data is stored/prepared is also limiting it (newer more powerful sensors have far less limits on that aspect). And like I said, there are many other factors at play here but I won't go into detail, here is not the place to do.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1023 on: October 15, 2022, 01:33:35 am »
I have made a donation, can you give me a license?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2022, 02:16:18 am by hongliulin88@.com »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1024 on: October 15, 2022, 05:22:16 am »
I totally understand your point there, but that's and extremely rare and unlikely case, and isn't really relevant in our case on LEDs in series vs in parallel.

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here and I'm not getting through.  LEDs in series is exactly the relevant case where current leakage failure modes are concerned.  Parallel always isolates each LED, end of story.  But the benefits of using them in series far outweighs any concerns about keeping a couple of cheap LEDs alive for longer in specific cases of failure, unless one has a visceral fear of soldering.  So we agree fully on that.

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The extra processing happening in the wiimote itself, the way it's handled, and the BT protocol are the bottleneck here, and the sensor wasn't used to its maximum specs simply because it wouldn't have been useful.
That means with a wiimote you'll never ever reach the 4ms latency I achieve with my gun system, especially without the Wii proprietary low latency BT protocol (which can't really be used for anything else than the Wii itself or Wii emulation).
Sadly no good drivers can fix that.
If it could I don't think I would have bothered making a full hardware solution.



I don't see any of the bottlenecking you are describing in the examples being shown, and this is using a standard Wii remote.  This tells me that any issues are the result of poor BT adapters and/or software implementations.  And while this is purely academic, as your approach is plenty fast enough for a light gun, every reference to the camera module indicates that it provides x and y co-ordinates only once every 10ms, after which the processing of that data would take place.  So, I'm assuming that actual latency of your system is at least 14ms, not the 4ms being stated.  References for MoCap software using the stock remote is able to track objects in 3D with a 49ms latency, which also isn't bad, as moving from target to target can easily take 200ms.  So, while yours is indeed very fast, far more "plug and play" and system compatible, I'm not willing to accept that it can't be done "well enough" on a PC with a stock remote, decent BT adapter and software.  But for its lower speed, it would also be wireless :)

Given the age of the device, however, It's doubtful anyone will bother to make something as polished as you have in that regard.
 
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Not "might". The front plastic is an IR pass filter as the camera doesn't have a proper integrated filter, it relies on the extra IR pas filter.
...
The cost? I am not sure I'm following you here, how would that have been more expensive or less efficient (for that particular use) to use simple 940nm than using 850nm ones?

Ok, thank you for that clarification on the camera. That actually answers the question I had a few posts back about its nature.  So, it's not a specifically filtered camera module, rather relying on an external filter entirely.  This means that anyone homebrewing from a Wii remote will need to come up with their own filter, or fashion the existing one into their design, and will need to be careful about light leakage into that area.  The RobotShop module definitely sounds more appealing.   It's unfortunate the supply is so intermittent.

I didn't mean monetary cost, rather the cost of a ~%50 loss in sensitivity to avoid some faintly glowing red dots while playing :).

I appreciate the responses to my questions.  They helped to save my pristine remotes from the wrath of my screwdriver.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1025 on: October 15, 2022, 09:31:12 am »
I don't see any of the bottlenecking you are describing in the examples being shown, and this is using a standard Wii remote.  This tells me that any issues are the result of poor BT adapters and/or software implementations. 
You can see the tracking lagging behind a little bit. Sure it's not very visible on slow movements and on a YouTube vid, but on fast motions on very picky lightgun games like point blank you WILL see the difference. And I'm not talking about the latency of the drivers or BT implementation, but on the hardware bottleneck of the wiimote itself and its protocol.

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And while this is purely academic, as your approach is plenty fast enough for a light gun, every reference to the camera module indicates that it provides x and y co-ordinates only once every 10ms, after which the processing of that data would take place.  So, I'm assuming that actual latency of your system is at least 14ms, not the 4ms being stated. 
That is why I said the info online is old, incomplete and incorrect. It's based on what the wiimote is doing with the sensor, not at all what the sensor is truly capable at its max specs.
And every library online are based on those erroneous info.
But again, if you don't believe me, investigate by yourself instead of just repeating me the same outdated info you found online ;)

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References for MoCap software using the stock remote is able to track objects in 3D with a 49ms latency, which also isn't bad, as moving from target to target can easily take 200ms.  So, while yours is indeed very fast, far more "plug and play" and system compatible, I'm not willing to accept that it can't be done "well enough" on a PC with a stock remote, decent BT adapter and software.  But for its lower speed, it would also be wireless :)

Given the age of the device, however, It's doubtful anyone will bother to make something as polished as you have in that regard.
Anybody telling you 49ms isn't bad for gaming is either trying to sell you something or doesn't know ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about gaming. Let alone 200ms.
And if you think 200ms is remotely ok to play a lightgun game without crosshair, no offence but you don't have a clue on how lightgun games work.
200ms means there will be 200ms between the time you pull the trigger and the time the shot land. It means your hit will land not where you are but where you where 1/4 second earlier. On picky games with fast motions and fast target you will ALWAYS miss your hit, as old crt based games require a max latency of around 16ms to work properly. If you don't believe me on that ask around in this forum see what people think about it  :lol

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1026 on: October 15, 2022, 12:11:53 pm »
You can see the tracking lagging behind a little bit.

I chalked that up to the drawing program.  I have seen them do this even with a mouse or graphics tablet.  The other examples where it has crosshairs which follow his actions looked much better.

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That is why I said the info online is old, incomplete and incorrect. It's based on what the wiimote is doing with the sensor, not at all what the sensor is truly capable at its max specs.

Ahhh, there we go.  So, the older sensor used in the remote does have the same 200hz spec as the newer ones.  There is at least one reference for that spec published in a researchgate paper online, so they aren't all incorrect :).  That's definitely a "pro" for a direct connection, especially if the Wii remote hardware is responsible for limiting that. 

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Anybody telling you 49ms isn't bad for gaming is either trying to sell you something or doesn't know ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about gaming. Let alone 200ms.
And if you think 200ms is remotely ok to play a lightgun game without crosshair, no offence but you don't have a clue on how lightgun games work.
200ms means there will be 200ms between the time you pull the trigger and the time the shot land. It means your hit will land not where you are but where you where 1/4 second earlier. On picky games with fast motions and fast target you will ALWAYS miss your hit, as old crt based games require a max latency of around 16ms to work properly. If you don't believe me on that ask around in this forum see what people think about it  :lol

I think you may be putting some words in my mouth there.  The MoCap system is able to do high quality 3D motion capture with a 49ms latency.  This system uses 2 Wii remotes to accurately plot coordinates in 3D space.  Their system was tested out to a few points less than the 100hz maximum, even with 2 controllers.  In other words, that system has a whole lot more processing going on in the back end once the sensor serves up the co-ordinates.

I also didn't say 200ms response time was "ok", only that by the time a human being identifies what they are seeing as a target and has moved into position, it can reach that amount of time.  Obviously, if it took another 200ms to fire once there, it would suck, but that wouldn't be the case. :)

In my mind, the target for response time would be the 16ms of an actual CRT refresh, as that is what those games really expected when they were created.  Unfortunately, the average LCD television already blows that goal with it's own input lag, which can be as much as three plus times that on older sets, and don't even think about what a projector adds to the mix.    Even newer sets with so-called "excellent" latency average to about 20ms. 

But honestly, most light gun games aren't that speed critical, with the obvious exception of the Point Blank series, where it was the focus of the game.  And with those titles, just playing them on an LCD puts the player at a disadvantage unless every part of the system comes in at under the 16ms mark when accumulated.  If the Wii remote is able to provide a reliable stream of data at 100hz, or 40% better than what the original CRT based light guns did, it's still possible (note that I didn't say probable) to get there with a low-latency display, coupled with good BT and software.   

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1027 on: October 15, 2022, 11:01:28 pm »
maybe the wii camera need to use this I2C voltage converter chip to the Arduino
 https://www.instructables.com/Wii-Remote-IR-Camera-Hack/

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1028 on: October 16, 2022, 02:44:02 am »
That's definitely a "pro" for a direct connection, especially if the Wii remote hardware is responsible for limiting that.
I wasn't aware it was available online as it's one of the numerous technical specs I was able to find by my own, but yeah, among other things, it's what makes my system way more suitable.

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I think you may be putting some words in my mouth there.  The MoCap system is able to do high quality 3D motion capture with a 49ms latency.  This system uses 2 Wii remotes to accurately plot coordinates in 3D space.  Their system was tested out to a few points less than the 100hz maximum, even with 2 controllers.  In other words, that system has a whole lot more processing going on in the back end once the sensor serves up the co-ordinates.

I also didn't say 200ms response time was "ok", only that by the time a human being identifies what they are seeing as a target and has moved into position, it can reach that amount of time.  Obviously, if it took another 200ms to fire once there, it would suck, but that wouldn't be the case. :)

In my mind, the target for response time would be the 16ms of an actual CRT refresh, as that is what those games really expected when they were created.  Unfortunately, the average LCD television already blows that goal with it's own input lag, which can be as much as three plus times that on older sets, and don't even think about what a projector adds to the mix.    Even newer sets with so-called "excellent" latency average to about 20ms. 

But honestly, most light gun games aren't that speed critical, with the obvious exception of the Point Blank series, where it was the focus of the game.  And with those titles, just playing them on an LCD puts the player at a disadvantage unless every part of the system comes in at under the 16ms mark when accumulated.  If the Wii remote is able to provide a reliable stream of data at 100hz, or 40% better than what the original CRT based light guns did, it's still possible (note that I didn't say probable) to get there with a low-latency display, coupled with good BT and software.

I think we don't really understand each other on why latency higher than a frame for lightguns is a huge issue, even for normal games and average gamers. It's fine tho, I understand your point here.
For most screen/controllers/games, higher latency is fine, as you get used to anticipate your actions depending of the latency of the system.
It also works with lightgun games that use a crosshair and don't need you to aim.

For aim on sight shooting on the other hand, it just doesn't work. It means on fast motions your aim will never be totally accurate and will never feel as good as arcade original games. Even 2~3 frames of latency makes a huge difference.
And added screen latency is another reason you don't want your gun to have latency, as those latencies only add up to each other.

But no worries, on a fast gaming monitor on mame with G-Sync mode active, the total latency of the screen + the gun4ir input is only 1 frame in total, so 16.66ms, the exact same as with the real arcade cab.
I recently did testing on the MiSTer FPGA on my CRT with the various cores that support lightgun, with the original guns, and there was no added latency compared to the CRT guns, it preformed exactly like the original, down to the single frame.
That is something no other lightguns in the market can achieve at the moment, especially not with levels of accuracy also beating CRT guns ;)
But you don't need to believe me on that, I'm preparing some videos to show that off, since I'm getting tired of people getting skeptical when I talk about my system performances  :lol
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 02:49:17 am by JayBee »

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1029 on: October 16, 2022, 09:12:32 am »
That is something no other lightguns in the market can achieve at the moment, especially not with levels of accuracy also beating CRT guns ;)
But you don't need to believe me on that, I'm preparing some videos to show that off, since I'm getting tired of people getting skeptical when I talk about my system performances  :lol

I'd definitely be interested in seeing a video backing up that claim :).  I have a dedicated 36" CRT and a PS2 with GunCons connected to it via RGB.  Speed and accuracy are at least "arcade quality" with this setup, but it's limited to the PS libraries.  FWIW, my interest in all of this is to turn that into a "gun system" which is capable of playing all of the light gun games with one gun and the same speed and accuracy as a GC2.  So, I'd be a happy camper if that is truly the case, and the minimum distance wasn't further than the 5 or so feet away I normally play from it.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1030 on: October 22, 2022, 01:04:13 pm »
Hi , but gun4ir arduino fw  work with raspberry 3/4 without install anything?  I read setup calibration is to do only with pc , ok... but example, I have a good working retropie/emulationstation in my Pi3,  I connect the gun (USB) and in any game  mouse  game gun "mame"  , sensor+led move the cursor  OR need a driver ??  if yes what/where ?
 

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1031 on: October 23, 2022, 03:04:37 pm »
Hi , but gun4ir arduino fw  work with raspberry 3/4 without install anything?  I read setup calibration is to do only with pc , ok... but example, I have a good working retropie/emulationstation in my Pi3,  I connect the gun (USB) and in any game  mouse  game gun "mame"  , sensor+led move the cursor  OR need a driver ??  if yes what/where ?
You need the windows GUI to flash and setup everything. Once it's setup you can use the gun in anything you want.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1032 on: October 25, 2022, 09:15:42 am »
but there is a "special" setting to do on windows,  that gun can work with retropie?
few friends say to me not!  this program after you install the firmware on your gun, is only for calibrate , no optinons for  raspberry.
and one friend again have just try , and not work on raspberry 3 + retropie and retroarch emulators,   only few keys , not triger and not move/cursor...in any way on setting/inputs...
but retroarch seem to see on inputs "arduinio gun4ir"....   
so he say meaby is something to install/compile on retropie system before gun can full working....  is true?

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1033 on: October 25, 2022, 09:52:29 am »
but there is a "special" setting to do on windows,  that gun can work with retropie?
few friends say to me not!  this program after you install the firmware on your gun, is only for calibrate , no optinons for  raspberry.
and one friend again have just try , and not work on raspberry 3 + retropie and retroarch emulators,   only few keys , not triger and not move/cursor...in any way on setting/inputs...
but retroarch seem to see on inputs "arduinio gun4ir"....   
so he say meaby is something to install/compile on retropie system before gun can full working....  is true?
Once flashed the gun works perfectly natively on RPi, it uses generic mouse/KB input so it's compatible with anything that support those.
But you do need cores that support lightgun, which can be hard to find and setup.

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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1034 on: November 09, 2022, 04:49:15 am »
one question of distance.
22" lcd....desktop , any way to play about 30/40 cm to screen  not more?
I try many ways...inclinate ir leds, no much power, but nothing to do, sensor begin to work well only about 1 meter for screen...to much for little screens.
why (tecnical) this limit?  seem not to do with the inclination ir leds, power,  sensor gun...
I read with Fish lens we can really play near , so like I say 30/40 cm to screen ?   really or only a dream?


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Re: GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
« Reply #1035 on: November 10, 2022, 10:48:23 pm »
Once donated how do i get the GUN4IR Setup program?