Main > Lightguns
GUN4IR - The Ultimate 4 Points Lightgun System
Zebra:
It's definitely nice if a gun behaves just like the coin-op but, for me, recoil makes it feel more realistic and fun. It's still worth it even if it doesn't stop recoiling when you run out of ammo. The gun just feels dead without it.
Not that many games let you run out of ammo. It's technically possible in games like Op Thunderbolt and Op Wolf but only if you don't shoot the falling ammo. The ones that make you reload by shooting off-screen usually shout "reload, reload" at you, and I usually reload before that out of habit. I always notice. Most people play these games at home with no recoil at all so keeping an eye on your ammo is just part of the game. The potential for overheating is a real issue though. I've seen it happen.
Some solenoids can get hot enough to melt the gun plastic. It's one of the reasons why I prefer to use guns with a recoil motor for full auto only games. Games like Crisis Zone on the PS2 require long periods of continuous full auto fire to dispense end of level bosses. It's more relaxing if I'm not worried about the solenoid.
I could never get the over heating warning working right in the Aimforce software. These guns don't have heat sensors so you can never rely on it anyway, so I gave up on it. It kinda seemed like it needed setting up for each game and I lacked any meaningful data to do it right. One thing I would say though, my full auto arcade guns rarely over-heat if set up right. The one I had issues with was my Aimtrak solenoid. It's really not suitable for full auto.
JayBee:
Actually the temperature sensors I ordered for my lightguns are on the way, it will be very easy to add solenoid speed variation depending on the temp. It should make it a lot safer to use.
For the speed variation and timing, I can already change them for each games, have auto full auto and things like that, that's not an issue.
Not matching the game speed is not an issue either.
As I was saying, the only issue is with games that have solenoid speed variation.
In T2, the game recoil full auto is supposed to start at full speed, then the longer you will hold it the more it will slow down.
But since my solenoid is out of sync, the faster speed is kind of slow, then suddenly become faster at lower speed, when the game recoil speed gets around the same speed as my solenoid. So far it's pretty much the only game where I had this issue.
That's why I want to use rumble motors, that don't have this timing issue.
The second solution I was thinking about is sending a special command to my Arduino to tell it to measure the timing between each activation/deactivation, and change the solenoid full auto speed accordingly.
It's not that hard to do, I just need some time, and it should cover every game that behaves like that.
Zebra:
OK I understand the issue now. T2 doesn't just change recoil speed for heat control though. It changes for different guns you pick up along the way too. A number of arcade games do this. I noticed it on the Jurassic Park (Raw Thrills version) too. It would be awesome to be able to replicate that feature. Recoil should pick up the pace if you grab a gatling gun in-game.... Have you managed to make this work?
I haven't seen any arcade guns that have a heat sensor inside. I'd be interested to hear how you'd make the game change recoil speed based on the output from the heat sensor. I'm not sure how much difference it will make in practice though.
My experience has been that full auto arcade recoil gun solenoids don't dangerously overheat, even after a long play session. That is, assuming they are set up right. They are made to take a hammering all day every day so typical home play doesn't really tax them. I spent over two hours playing Time Crisis 3 and Crisis Zone yesterday and my Time Crisis arcade gun solenoid was barely warm. It's the same with my Op Thunderbolt and Gen X guns (if I keep the pistons oiled).
If a solenoid is getting dangerously hot during regular play then I'd assume it was either the wrong type of solenoid or it was set up wrong (too much power or a duty cycle that's too high). Either way, I'd want to stop using it all together and let it cool down properly instead of reducing the frequency. When I tested my Aimtrak solenoid with full auto, after three minutes of play, it got hot enough to burn my fingers and melt the surrounding wires. This was using the same 555 circuit (with the same frequency) as I use for my arcade gun solenoids. It taught me an expensive lesson.
It's important to know if you have a momentary or continuous duty solenoid. Momentary solenoids (like the one in the Aimtrak) usually pack more force but require cool down time between activations and shouldn't stay activated for more than a second or two. Continuous duty solenoids are designed to say activated for longer periods of time (without burning up the coil). They usually pack less force but they generate less heat and are more suitable for full auto.
Have you experienced over-heating issues with full auto arcade gun solenoids? If so, I'd be interested to hear which guns had issues and what frequency you used?
JayBee:
--- Quote from: Zebra on October 19, 2019, 01:44:03 pm ---OK I understand the issue now. T2 doesn't just change recoil speed for heat control though. It changes for different guns you pick up along the way too. A number of arcade games do this. I noticed it on the Jurassic Park (Raw Thrills version) too. It would be awesome to be able to replicate that feature. Recoil should pick up the pace if you grab a gatling gun in-game.... Have you managed to make this work?
I haven't seen any arcade guns that have a heat sensor inside. I'd be interested to hear how you'd make the game change recoil speed based on the output from the heat sensor. I'm not sure how much difference it will make in practice though.
My experience has been that full auto arcade recoil gun solenoids don't dangerously overheat, even after a long play session. That is, assuming they are set up right. They are made to take a hammering all day every day so typical home play doesn't really tax them. I spent over two hours playing Time Crisis 3 and Crisis Zone yesterday and my Time Crisis arcade gun solenoid was barely warm. It's the same with my Op Thunderbolt and Gen X guns (if I keep the pistons oiled).
If a solenoid is getting dangerously hot during regular play then I'd assume it was either the wrong type of solenoid or it was set up wrong (too much power or a duty cycle that's too high). Either way, I'd want to stop using it all together and let it cool down properly instead of reducing the frequency. When I tested my Aimtrak solenoid with full auto, after three minutes of play, it got hot enough to burn my fingers and melt the surrounding wires. This was using the same 555 circuit (with the same frequency) as I use for my arcade gun solenoids. It taught me an expensive lesson.
It's important to know if you have a momentary or continuous duty solenoid. Momentary solenoids (like the one in the Aimtrak) usually pack more force but require cool down time between activations and shouldn't stay activated for more than a second or two. Continuous duty solenoids are designed to say activated for longer periods of time (without burning up the coil). They usually pack less force but they generate less heat and are more suitable for full auto.
Have you experienced over-heating issues with full auto arcade gun solenoids? If so, I'd be interested to hear which guns had issues and what frequency you used?
--- End quote ---
I'm not using arcade fun solenoids, just the cheap one with enough strength that fits in the gun. I know what you are going to say, but I'm very happy with those ;)
They overheat only after something like non stop 15-20 minutes of full auto, and one (the bigger one) is heating way more than the other.
I couldn't find any affordable not quality continuous duty solenoid. But if you know places where I can get some, it would be very usefull.
Zebra:
The only affordable quality recoil solenoid I know of is the one for Terminator Salvation arcade guns. There aren't many arcade companies left these days but Raw Thrills parts are generally far more reasonable than Namco and Sega parts. They can be found for a little over $30. If a person can't afford $30, my suggestion would be to not spend anything on gaming peripherals at all until they can.
The other cheap option, and probably the one I would recommend for a project, is a used PS1 jolt gun. They have a decent full auto solenoid and you benefit from also getting a shell designed to fit it. It saves a lot of time and wasted cash.
The issue with cheap solenoids over-heating isn't just that they get hot. If you can feel a noticeable amount of heat building up in a properly lubed solenoid, it's because you are burning up the coil. In other words, it won't last long. I destroyed a bunch of "cheap" solenoids before I realized that it was cheaper to just buy one that was suitable for the job. Ultimately, you want to be able to play without worrying about this stuff, or it's not fun.
I spent a good amount of time searching for decent continuous duty pull solenoids on ebay a while ago. They can be found but the saving over the Raw Thrills solenoids is usually too small to matter.
I can't honestly criticize what you are trying to do with the cheap eBay solenoids as I tried to do the same and for the same reasons. I'm almost 100% sure that you'll eventually come to the same conclusion though.
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