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Author Topic: Screen not centered  (Read 997 times)

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tonyt76

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Screen not centered
« on: September 17, 2019, 08:56:34 am »
Hey guys, if i center Windows on my CRT, all mame games load shifted to the right.

If i center my CRT for mame games, then Windows is shifted to the right.

Is there a way to have Windows & Mame games both centered on the screen?

« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 09:13:32 am by tonyt76 »

Arroyo

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 03:51:50 pm »
Sounds like a difference between your desktop and Mame horizontal porch values.  Pull up Arcade OSD and note the horizontal front and back porch values (in milliseconds).

Now open up mame.ini and scroll down to where it shows these lines (should look something like this):

crt_range0  15625-15750, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

The values in bold are what you want to compare with what you wrote down from Arcade OSD.  They should be the same.  Edit the mame.ini to match what you get in Arcade OSD for your desktop and you should be good.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 10:00:45 pm »
Sounds like a difference between your desktop and Mame horizontal porch values.  Pull up Arcade OSD and note the horizontal front and back porch values (in milliseconds).

Now open up mame.ini and scroll down to where it shows these lines (should look something like this):

crt_range0  15625-15750, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

The values in bold are what you want to compare with what you wrote down from Arcade OSD.  They should be the same.  Edit the mame.ini to match what you get in Arcade OSD for your desktop and you should be good.

Mine looks like this:

crt_range0                15250-16500, 40.00-80.00, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40.00-80.00, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40.00-80.00, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 10:02:41 pm »
I take it you have a tri-sync monitor?  What desktop resolution are you using?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 10:06:51 pm »
I take it you have a tri-sync monitor?  What desktop resolution are you using?

That is correct, i'm using the Wei-Ya M3129 profile. I'm running Windows 10 @ 640X480.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 10:11:28 pm »
Iíll write you back later tonight when I can put the kids down.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 10:27:47 pm »
Iíll write you back later tonight when I can put the kids down.

Thank you!

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 12:04:53 am »
Ok so,  youíve got a tri-sync, I donít have one, and donít have any experience but the principals are the same. 

You want to make sure you have the proper porch values.  Iím not sure if these would differ greatly from one resolution to the other.  I noticed in your settings your porch values are very different in each resolution range.  This may be contributing to your problem, although probably not as they are preset (assuming your monitor is indeed a Wei-Ya M3129.  To be sure though you want to lean on Arcade OSD.

As Iím sure you have become aware the screen looks like this:



Where the blue represents the desktop resolution youíve chosen.  Hit enter on that line and you should come to a screen like this:




This is where you will want the white lines on all sides just barley to be touching the bleeding edges of the screen.  Note that in mine the horizontal are fairly visible while the vertical are just off screen (they are more visible in real life)..  This indicates that we have the proper porch values to have the image centered on screen.  Note that vertical is handled via the potentiometers on your display and not through Arcade OSD (for the most part).  In my case that means 480i and 240p games are covered.  This process should be the same for you, however for higher resolution games such that use medium or VGA resolution, you will want to repeat this process and check the porch values.  If they differ from the last one you noted write them down.  You will edit the lines that you posted in each respective range.  If itís not clear, the first range you wrote covers 15khz resolutions 640x480i (or 320x240p).  The second range wrote covers medium resolutions 640x320p, and the last set covers ďhigh resolutionsĒ 640x480p. 

The latter two should be setup in Arcade OSD if you selected the Wei-Ya M3129 under the monitor settings.

Check the horizontal porch values and move them to where they need to be such that you get the white lines on all sides.  Note the values and edit the bold numbers in each section of the mame.ini.

The first bold number represents the front porch value.  The second bold number represents the back porch value. 

Once youíve got all the porch values in place for each modeline and save the mame.ini file then you should be good.  Your desktop should be at the correct settings to fit the screen as should any game you launch. 

If something doesnít make sense let me know.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:09:33 pm by Arroyo »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 07:24:10 am »
Ok so,  youíve got a tri-sync, I donít have one, and donít have any experience but the principals are the same. 

You want to make sure you have the proper porch values.  Iím not sure if these would differ greatly from one resolution to the other.  I noticed in your settings your porch values are very different in each resolution range.  This may be contributing to your problem, although probably not as they are preset (assuming your monitor is indeed a Wei-Ya M3129.  To be sure though you want to lean on Arcade OSD.

As Iím sure you have become aware the screen looks like this:



Where the blue represents the desktop resolution youíve chosen.  Hit enter on that line and you should come to a screen like this:




This is where you will want the white lines on all sides just barley to be touching the bleeding edges of the screen.  Note that in mine the horizontal are fairly visible while the vertical are just off screen (they are more visible in real life)..  This indicates that we have the proper porch values to have the image centered on screen.  Note that vertical is handled via the potentiometers on your display and not through Arcade OSD (for the most part).  In my case that means 480i and 240p games are covered.  This process should be the same for you, however for higher resolution games such that use medium or VGA resolution, you will want to repeat this process and check the porch values.  If they differ from the last one you noted write them down.  You will edit the lines that you posted in each respective range.  If itís not clear, the first range you wrote covers 15khz resolutions 640x480i (or 320x240p).  The second range wrote covers medium resolutions 640x350p, and the last set covers ďhigh resolutionsĒ 640x480p. 

The latter two should be setup in Arcade OSD if you selected the Wei-Ya M3129 under the monitor settings.

Check the horizontal porch values and move them to where they need to be such that you get the white lines on all sides.  Note the values and edit the bold numbers in each section of the mame.ini.

The first bold number represents the front porch value.  The second bold number represents the back porch value. 

Once youíve got all the porch values in place for each modeline and save the mame.ini file then you should be good.  Your desktop should be at the correct settings to fit the screen as should any game you launch. 

If something doesnít make sense let me know.

How do I adjust Arcade OSD to get the image to fit like yours? Sorry I am not familiar with how to use Arcade OSD just yet.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 10:47:21 am »
How do I adjust Arcade OSD to get the image to fit like yours? Sorry I am not familiar with how to use Arcade OSD just yet.

1.)  Click on Arcade OSD, you'll get the first image that I posted.  Hit Enter.
2.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight your desktop resolution (indicated by blue writing).  Hit Enter.
3.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight Horizontal Geometry.  Hit Enter.
4.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight H front porch.  Use the arrow keys right and left to move the values (as you can see in the second picture I posted)  and hit Enter each time to see the changes (sometimes I have to hit enter to twice, kinda gets stuck).  Note that the left side is affected by the Front Porch, and the right side is the Back Porch.   

EDIT:  BTW, you can see in my picture that there is some bowing in the upper corners of the image.  Those kind of issues you need to play with your potentiometers on the chassis of your CRT (assuming you have an analog chassis, although I don't know).  In my case there is an on screen display and I select the values via a menu, as mine is a digital chassis.  Haven't had a chance to play with the display photographed yet .
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 11:04:41 am by Arroyo »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2019, 11:34:52 am »
How do I adjust Arcade OSD to get the image to fit like yours? Sorry I am not familiar with how to use Arcade OSD just yet.

1.)  Click on Arcade OSD, you'll get the first image that I posted.  Hit Enter.
2.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight your desktop resolution (indicated by blue writing).  Hit Enter.
3.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight Horizontal Geometry.  Hit Enter.
4.)  Use your arrow keys and highlight H front porch.  Use the arrow keys right and left to move the values (as you can see in the second picture I posted)  and hit Enter each time to see the changes (sometimes I have to hit enter to twice, kinda gets stuck).  Note that the left side is affected by the Front Porch, and the right side is the Back Porch.   

EDIT:  BTW, you can see in my picture that there is some bowing in the upper corners of the image.  Those kind of issues you need to play with your potentiometers on the chassis of your CRT (assuming you have an analog chassis, although I don't know).  In my case there is an on screen display and I select the values via a menu, as mine is a digital chassis.  Haven't had a chance to play with the display photographed yet .

Do I need to center windows first or do it in Arcade OSD?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 11:46:38 am »
Do I need to center windows first or do it in Arcade OSD?

You'll center Windows in Arcade OSD.  Once you have the Porch Values how you like then go back to the previous screen (Esc), and hit "save as my desktop" (or at least something like that, I'm going off of memory).  Also as mentioned you can work with Vertical centering, but vertical size will need to be adjusted via your CRT on screen menu or potentiometers on the chassis of the CRT.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2019, 09:27:38 pm »
Do I need to center windows first or do it in Arcade OSD?

You'll center Windows in Arcade OSD.  Once you have the Porch Values how you like then go back to the previous screen (Esc), and hit "save as my desktop" (or at least something like that, I'm going off of memory).  Also as mentioned you can work with Vertical centering, but vertical size will need to be adjusted via your CRT on screen menu or potentiometers on the chassis of the CRT.

If I open the resolution listed in Blue which is my desktop res, should I use my monitors pots to get the image to fit the screen?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2019, 09:29:52 pm »
For the pots you only need to worry about vertical for size.  Horizontal you can tune in through Arcade OSD as I described above.

Edit:  you may need to adjust pots, but for now just try to get it dialed in through Arcade OSD.  If after understanding how it works better it still doesnít fit, then use the pots.  But don't adjust pots between resolutions, for now just adjust once if necessary.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 09:32:29 pm by Arroyo »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 12:08:04 pm »
For the pots you only need to worry about vertical for size.  Horizontal you can tune in through Arcade OSD as I described above.

Edit:  you may need to adjust pots, but for now just try to get it dialed in through Arcade OSD.  If after understanding how it works better it still doesnít fit, then use the pots.  But don't adjust pots between resolutions, for now just adjust once if necessary.

So my desktop is set to 640X480 @ 60 in ArcadeOSD. Adjusting the porch values doesn't really do much in terms of moving the image. If i pick a 15k res like 384 X 240, adjusting the porch values moves the screen a lot.

I'm assuming if i paste my porch values in mame.ini under monitor_31, it wont carry over the to 15khz games.

Should i ditch the trisync profile and just go with a arcade_15 profile, or is that defeating the purpose of have a tri-sync monitor?

I'm not sure what to do...



« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:15:29 pm by tonyt76 »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 12:54:43 pm »
So my desktop is set to 640X480 @ 60 in ArcadeOSD. Adjusting the porch values doesn't really do much in terms of moving the image. If i pick a 15k res like 384 X 240, adjusting the porch values moves the screen a lot.

I don't have any experience editing porch values at 31khz (your desktop resolution), however I don't know why the porch value edits woudln't affect the image.  But since you are able to move it at 15khz it sounds like you know what you are doing.


Quote
I'm assuming if i paste my porch values in mame.ini under monitor_31, it wont carry over the to 15khz games.

You have three crt ranges that you are defining:

crt_range0                15250-16500, 40.00-80.00, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40.00-80.00, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40.00-80.00, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

crt_range0  is for editing how you want your 15khz games to look, as noted by the horizontal frequency range in bold.
crt_range1  is for your 24khz medium resolution games, again as noted by the horizontal frequency range in bold.
crt_range2  is for your 31khz, high resolution games (and as you've selected, your desktop). Again note the horizontal frequency range in bold.

Take the porch values that get you the white boarders at each of the resolutions: 640x480 @60p for 31khz, 640x320 @ 60p for 24khz games, and either 640x288 @ 53p or 640x256 @ 59p for 15khz games.

write them down and edit the porch values as shown in bold below:

crt_range0                15250-16500, 40.00-80.00, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40.00-80.00, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40.00-80.00, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

The first bold number on each line is your front porch value, and the second bold number is your back porch value.

Quote
Should i ditch the trisync profile and just go with a arcade_15 profile, or is that defeating the purpose of have a tri-sync monitor?

Yes, don't ditch it.  The whole point is that you tell GroovyMame which resolution to choose with which game.  It will compare the games video data (resolution, refresh rate, etc), and pick the matching resolution, refresh rate that your monitor has. 

I'm very keen on seeing how this works for you, as I am contemplating picking one of those up myself.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2019, 08:30:01 pm »
So my desktop is set to 640X480 @ 60 in ArcadeOSD. Adjusting the porch values doesn't really do much in terms of moving the image. If i pick a 15k res like 384 X 240, adjusting the porch values moves the screen a lot.

I don't have any experience editing porch values at 31khz (your desktop resolution), however I don't know why the porch value edits woudln't affect the image.  But since you are able to move it at 15khz it sounds like you know what you are doing.


Quote
I'm assuming if i paste my porch values in mame.ini under monitor_31, it wont carry over the to 15khz games.

You have three crt ranges that you are defining:

crt_range0                15250-16500, 40.00-80.00, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40.00-80.00, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40.00-80.00, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

crt_range0  is for editing how you want your 15khz games to look, as noted by the horizontal frequency range in bold.
crt_range1  is for your 24khz medium resolution games, again as noted by the horizontal frequency range in bold.
crt_range2  is for your 31khz, high resolution games (and as you've selected, your desktop). Again note the horizontal frequency range in bold.

Take the porch values that get you the white boarders at each of the resolutions: 640x480 @60p for 31khz, 640x320 @ 60p for 24khz games, and either 640x288 @ 53p or 640x256 @ 59p for 15khz games.

write them down and edit the porch values as shown in bold below:

crt_range0                15250-16500, 40.00-80.00, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40.00-80.00, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40.00-80.00, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

The first bold number on each line is your front porch value, and the second bold number is your back porch value.

Quote
Should i ditch the trisync profile and just go with a arcade_15 profile, or is that defeating the purpose of have a tri-sync monitor?

Yes, don't ditch it.  The whole point is that you tell GroovyMame which resolution to choose with which game.  It will compare the games video data (resolution, refresh rate, etc), and pick the matching resolution, refresh rate that your monitor has. 

I'm very keen on seeing how this works for you, as I am contemplating picking one of those up myself.

Here are screenshots from the 3 resolutions. The 15k res would not fill the screen, it would only move left or right.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 08:40:55 pm by tonyt76 »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2019, 08:38:39 pm »
One of my concerns with that monitor, which these results may/may not confirm, is I had heard on the chassis that there is a 15khz, & 31khz jumper pin.  You may have to look behind the glass screen on the chassis for an area on the PCB that has a jumper pin and (while the screen is UNPLUGGED!!) find those jumper pins and shift it to one of the other pins. 

It looks like your 31khz picture is coming through nicely.  Try what I described above and see if it helps dialing in a 15khz image.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 08:42:23 pm »
One of my concerns with that monitor, which these results may/may not confirm, is I had heard on the chassis that there is a 15khz, & 31khz jumper pin.  You may have to look behind the glass screen on the chassis for an area on the PCB that has a jumper pin and (while the screen is UNPLUGGED!!) find those jumper pins and shift it to one of the other pins. 

It looks like your 31khz picture is coming through nicely.  Try what I described above and see if it helps dialing in a 15khz image.

I'm afraid a jumper like that doesn't exist for this monitor. It auto switches between 15/24/31.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2019, 08:50:22 pm »
I'm afraid a jumper like that doesn't exist for this monitor. It auto switches between 15/24/31.

Huh I thought for sure that was the one that did.  Ok how about this:

1.) Put the 15khz signal up on Arcade OSD.  Use your potentiometers to make the picture fit the screen horizontally & vertically.
2.) Then switch to the 31khz signal and see if you can adjust the porches to bring the horizontal picture to fill the screen.

Let me know if that works.  And I just remembered that wp34 had a WG9800 and had installed GroovyMame.  Iíll reach out to him, if this doesnít work.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 08:53:49 pm »
I'm afraid a jumper like that doesn't exist for this monitor. It auto switches between 15/24/31.

Huh I thought for sure that was the one that did.  Ok how about this:

1.) Put the 15khz signal up on Arcade OSD.  Use your potentiometers to make the picture fit the screen horizontally & vertically.
2.) Then switch to the 31khz signal and see if you can adjust the porches to bring the horizontal picture to fill the screen.

Let me know if that works.  And I just remembered that wp34 had a WG9800 and had installed GroovyMame.  Iíll reach out to him, if this doesnít work.

Ok which 15k resolution should I use?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2019, 08:57:10 pm »
Ok which 15k resolution should I use?

Go with 640x256 for now, shouldnít matter though for dialing in horizontal.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2019, 10:15:53 pm »
Ok which 15k resolution should I use?

Go with 640x256 for now, shouldnít matter though for dialing in horizontal.

So, if I dial my pots in for that res, changing the front & back porch for 640X480 @ 60 does not move the image horizontally no matter what I type in. I have no idea what i'm doing wrong.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 10:24:15 pm by tonyt76 »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2019, 10:22:39 pm »
So, if I dial my pots in for that res, changing the front & back porch for 640X480 @ 60 does not move the image horizontally no matter I type in. I have no idea what i'm doing wrong.

Might not be doing anything wrong.  It might be that you have to do pot adjustments at each resolution......which would obviously not be ideal.  Having said that 90%+ games are 15khz so dialing in that one would solve almost every game you want to play.

Iíve reached out to wp34 to see if he can weigh in.  In addition Calamity who wrote the drivers for this will probably chime in eventually.  You can always PM him as well.  If I had this monitor Iíd follow along and figure it out with you but I donít unfortunately.  Donít worry though some will come to help with more experience.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2019, 10:29:18 pm »
So, if I dial my pots in for that res, changing the front & back porch for 640X480 @ 60 does not move the image horizontally no matter I type in. I have no idea what i'm doing wrong.

Might not be doing anything wrong.  It might be that you have to do pot adjustments at each resolution......which would obviously not be ideal.  Having said that 90%+ games are 15khz so dialing in that one would solve almost every game you want to play.

Iíve reached out to wp34 to see if he can weigh in.  In addition Calamity who wrote the drivers for this will probably chime in eventually.  You can always PM him as well.  If I had this monitor Iíd follow along and figure it out with you but I donít unfortunately.  Donít worry though some will come to help with more experience.

Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2019, 10:43:37 pm »
Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

Good question and you just triggered a thought.  Are you using super resolutions?  It doesnít appear that you are looking back at the images from before.  While this wonít help our current discussion of dialing in the correct positioning of your multiple resolutions, it will help to make most games work (15khz).

Super resolutions works off the idea that because there is a high frequency on the horizontal range of the image you can easily adjust the resolution with the flexibility a CRT provides.  BUT, on the vertical side the frequency is usually around 60Hz as opposed to Khz on the horizontal.  So it is easy to adjust the horizontal resolution but not so easy to adjust the vertical.   

What Calamity came up with is Super resolutions which creates resolutions with really big horizontal numbers (something like 2,000+).  The idea being that GroovyMame can on the fly adjust the horizontal range but the vertical is somewhat fixed. 

All this is to say that once you start using super resolutions you only have to worry about dialing in the picture once in your 15khz reference resolution and then any game that has a different horizontal will be automatically scaled to fit.  You donít have to worry about adjusting the picture for every resolution i.e. 320x240, 388x225, etc.

Hopefully this makes sense, I know itís a lot.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2019, 10:55:04 pm »
Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

Good question and you just triggered a thought.  Are you using super resolutions?  It doesnít appear that you are looking back at the images from before.  While this wonít help our current discussion of dialing in the correct positioning of your multiple resolutions, it will help to make most games work (15khz).

Super resolutions works off the idea that because there is a high frequency on the horizontal range of the image you can easily adjust the resolution with the flexibility a CRT provides.  BUT, on the vertical side the frequency is usually around 60Hz as opposed to Khz on the horizontal.  So it is easy to adjust the horizontal resolution but not so easy to adjust the vertical.   

What Calamity came up with is Super resolutions which creates resolutions with really big horizontal numbers (something like 2,000+).  The idea being that GroovyMame can on the fly adjust the horizontal range but the vertical is somewhat fixed. 

All this is to say that once you start using super resolutions you only have to worry about dialing in the picture once in your 15khz reference resolution and then any game that has a different horizontal will be automatically scaled to fit.  You donít have to worry about adjusting the picture for every resolution i.e. 320x240, 388x225, etc.

Hopefully this makes sense, I know itís a lot.

I chose super resolutions in vmmaker, do i need to edit mame.ini to enable it?

What is a good 15khz reference resolution?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2019, 11:02:09 pm »
Ah ok, it didnít look like it from your VMM pictures as I didnít see any super resolutions (see my image above showing 2560 x yyy).  If you have it setup and dial in 15khz that will work for most games.   I always used my desktop resolution of 640x480 @ 60i.  Iím not sure if thatís an option for you but dialing in any 15khz resolution should work with super resolutions.  Iíd probably use 640x256 @ 59p, but you could also use 640x288 @ 53p to capture vertical games as well.  The difference between the two is in height of image.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2019, 10:10:01 pm »
Any luck?  Thought Iíd check in.  Iím going to PM Calamity to see if he can help as I donít seem to be able to find someone with direct experience.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2019, 10:25:20 pm »
Any luck?  Thought Iíd check in.  Iím going to PM Calamity to see if he can help as I donít seem to be able to find someone with direct experience.

I need help, i'm new to this so i'm not 100% sure what i'm doing wrong.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2019, 10:40:58 pm »
I need help, i'm new to this so i'm not 100% sure what i'm doing wrong.

I reached out to Calamity to see if he can help.  Without having one here itís hard to know what the issues are.  Iím sure weíll get it resolved though.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2019, 10:43:23 pm »
I need help, i'm new to this so i'm not 100% sure what i'm doing wrong.

I reached out to Calamity to see if he can help.  Without having one here itís hard to know what the issues are.  Iím sure weíll get it resolved though.

I really appreciate all of your help.

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2019, 10:47:06 pm »
I really appreciate all of your help.
:cheers:

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2019, 04:54:09 am »

Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

I may be missing something since the thread is too long for me right now, but what you do to get all the games horizontally centered is defining a "CRT range" and then, GM will generate the modelines according to those specs. So, if the horizontal porch values are properly measured for your needs and typed in GM's INI file, every video mode GM uses will be centered as per that definition.

You define your CRT range with VMM and then export it to GM with a button press -- that's how your desktop and GM get sync'ed. Guide here:

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1551#p1551
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 04:57:25 am by Recapnation »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2019, 12:39:57 pm »

Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

I may be missing something since the thread is too long for me right now, but what you do to get all the games horizontally centered is defining a "CRT range" and then, GM will generate the modelines according to those specs. So, if the horizontal porch values are properly measured for your needs and typed in GM's INI file, every video mode GM uses will be centered as per that definition.

You define your CRT range with VMM and then export it to GM with a button press -- that's how your desktop and GM get sync'ed. Guide here:

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1551#p1551

Thank you for this. Quick question about Horizontal Porch values... Do they move the entire image left or right? Kind of like what a H. Pos pot would do?

If I want to adjust the H. Size, is that pot adjustment only, or can ArcadeOSD do that as well?

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2019, 02:24:15 pm »
Quick question about Horizontal Porch values... Do they move the entire image left or right? Kind of like what a H. Pos pot would do?

No they move the image in and out like resizing, not positioning. Although it does have some affect on where center is.

Quote
If I want to adjust the H. Size, is that pot adjustment only, or can ArcadeOSD do that as well?

Check out post #9, that's where I was mentioned how to do this.  The front porch moves the left side of your screen in and out (resizing), the back porch moves the right side of your screen in and out.  This should be noticeable on any resolution expect super resolutions (don't try that on those, it's too wide at 2560).

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2019, 12:55:42 pm »
Hi tonyt76,

Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

To better undestand this, think only of vertical resolutions. If you get horizontal porch values from 384x224, these will actually be good for anything in the 15 kHz range (240p), e.g. 320x240, 256x224, etc., even 2560x240.

Once you move to another frequency range, say 24 kHz or 31 kHz, your monitor will readjust internally to cope with the new frequencies. This means another set of porch adjustments will be required for each frequency range.

Usually for a trisync monitor you want to use 240p, 384p and 480p respectively as reference for the correct adjustments in each range. In order to find the adjustments in Arcade OSD I'd use their respective super resolutions: 2560x240, 2560x384 and 2560x480, since the horizontal adjustment in super resolution is much finer and closer to your monitor specs.

Don't use resolutions such as 288p for adjusting the 15 kHz range since this is on the very range's border.

Don't try to adjust the resolution that's currently in use by the desktop (640x480 in your case) since this one is *read-only* and can't be adjusted. In order to adjust it, switch the desktop's resolution to a different one before proceeding, so it becomes editable.

Some tri-sync monitors have separate horizontal centering pots for each frequency range (3 in total). This solves the problem in those cases. Now, if you only have a centering pot in yours, the issue is the relative displacement between ranges. This is where the separate crt_ranges become handy, allowing you to center each of ther ranges by software, so the 3 ranges get aligned.

On their normal operation, these monitors just switched to a different range eventually when the operator changed the pcb and centering was corrected with the pot only once in years or never again.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2019, 01:33:26 pm »
Hi tonyt76,

Explain this to me so I better understand... If i set my monitor profile to arcade_15 and dial in 384X224 in ArcadeOSD, then type those front & back porch numbers into mame.ini, when i load a different game with a totally different resolution, how will the game stay centered if mame.ini is using the values from 1 particular resolution?

To better undestand this, think only of vertical resolutions. If you get horizontal porch values from 384x224, these will actually be good for anything in the 15 kHz range (240p), e.g. 320x240, 256x224, etc., even 2560x240.

Once you move to another frequency range, say 24 kHz or 31 kHz, your monitor will readjust internally to cope with the new frequencies. This means another set of porch adjustments will be required for each frequency range.

Usually for a trisync monitor you want to use 240p, 384p and 480p respectively as reference for the correct adjustments in each range. In order to find the adjustments in Arcade OSD I'd use their respective super resolutions: 2560x240, 2560x384 and 2560x480, since the horizontal adjustment in super resolution is much finer and closer to your monitor specs.

Don't use resolutions such as 288p for adjusting the 15 kHz range since this is on the very range's border.

Don't try to adjust the resolution that's currently in use by the desktop (640x480 in your case) since this one is *read-only* and can't be adjusted. In order to adjust it, switch the desktop's resolution to a different one before proceeding, so it becomes editable.

Some tri-sync monitors have separate horizontal centering pots for each frequency range (3 in total). This solves the problem in those cases. Now, if you only have a centering pot in yours, the issue is the relative displacement between ranges. This is where the separate crt_ranges become handy, allowing you to center each of ther ranges by software, so the 3 ranges get aligned.

On their normal operation, these monitors just switched to a different range eventually when the operator changed the pcb and centering was corrected with the pot only once in years or never again.

Wow thank you! That explains why I could not edit my Desktop res. I will try what you suggested and report back.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 10:04:05 am by tonyt76 »

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Re: Screen not centered
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2019, 10:04:19 am »
How do I enable Super Resolutions? Most of the MAME games I load, only load in their original resolution, not the Super Res.